Dies to Removal

Damn, what a weird game. I should have listened to my gut and kept after Iamopen2. I knew he was lying!

Great game.

If Zem was playing a serial killer; he did a good job.

RCW as scum was WAY to powerful.

Shutting down for the night.

Wraith out.

Freedom has to be scum for defending Zem then. Thus Iamopen2 could be scum. It is up to G_R.

You flip flop votes for the weakest reasons Wraith.

I flesh out my points and try to follow real evidence after 28 pages of BS.

It's up to G_R and/or Iamopen2.

Were hell did the MOD go?

Claim:

I am STARDUST, Survivor. My win condition is that I must survive until any other faction achieves their own win condition (mafia have parity with Town or all mafia are dead). I have a 1-shot NK ability.

WTF?

We lynch this, right? Not town, won't be town, doesn't help town.

vote: Zemanjaski

Just be aware that for reasons that will be revealed upon my death, Stardust
is scum.

Oh...we will auto suspect/know this if you role town.

@Zem, My study of Iamopen2 failed. Stardust has raised great points. G_R has to be town to have 2 votes or it's a BS game. Rez was an unknown. Before Doc was replaced by a deaf ghost; he leaned town to me strongly. That leaves you and Ham. LMD was not adding much to the game as appeared a lurker or piggy back of coments to look town. I don't know what else to do?

Confirmed- G_R has double vote from MOD

A bus driver switches all things that would target those two players. Anything that targeted rcw would target rezombad instead. Anything that targeted rezombad would target rcw instead. It doesn't interact with rcw's abilities at all.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but yeah, it's possible imopen is lying. The main reason why I think he probably is telling the truth is that I don't think rezombad was a very good choice for the nightkill. Left alive, one of two things would happen. 1) He's 1-shot, and I carry on going after him as I was at the end of Day 1, or 2) He's multishot and he shoots me in Day 2. Either way the mafia benefit from him staying alive.

rcw, on the other hand, was a good target for the nightkill. Relatively active, confirmed town
by his ability... so I tend to believe imopen when he says they were switched.

All that said, I have been burned before by assuming that everyone thinks like me. I strategize assuming my opponent's will be doing the same, in the same manner. That's sometimes not the case, so I end up making the wrong call. Maybe rezmo was targeted by the nightkill and scumopen2 wanted to burn his hidden flip ability so he could make an awesome bus driver claim. Dunno. With only two days to go before deadline, that's best left for Day 3 anyway.

You place to much trust in unfounded claims, but you have decent points.

I just re-read all the posts. Iamopen2 knew before that RCW was a miller cause Rcw adimitted to it before a lynch. Although, in a previous post, Rez uses the bus driver in a post as a giff, thus Iamopen2 could have got the idea to fake it. Further reading had LMD lurking more and not really contributing anything for town. Zem wanted to push this after getting LMD spot. Stardust is on
to something here.

Vote ZEM

He claimed saving you and sent the scum to Rezombad with bus driver ability. How would he know who is the miller to save you? Before we voted to test your miller status?

I know you said you're avoiding the mafiascum wiki because you want to make your own reads, but please at least look up the power roles so you understand what's going on. A miller is a player who is town, but will investigate as scum to any cops who look into them (a cop is a role who, at night, can target a player and learn if they're town or scum). rcw is also unlynchable, a separate ability that means he can't be
lynched.

Issue- Bus driver claim he made would mean he only could switch the charactor for attack. He did not know that Rcwraspy was a miller at that moment/night. He could only guess. Rez could have been night killed without us knowing if he was scum or not. Iamopen2 could be false claiing a role. He won't talk anymore to prove this to us.

Do you think I am wrong in this theory?

In both case Rcwraspy and G_R are big targets for nightkills. Iamopen2 could be lying thus I can't count him really toward anything beyond a voter. How would he know who is the miller to save Rcwraspy during the night?

I think the prudent vote is for Zem now, but Iamopen2 is a good vote as well. I will wait for Iamopen2 to respond before I vote for Zem.

What does my being a miller have to do with imopen2's claim?

He claimed saving you and sent the scum to Rezombad with bus driver ability. How would he know who is the miller to save you? Before we voted to test
your miller status?

Dude, you called me a grandma with CRS.

Oh yes, that I did. Basically meaning that you'll say a bunch of stuff that makes a bit of sense, then BAM! From out of left field you make a vote that defies logic, even your own. I played a few games of Werewolf over Christmas with my family (grandma included). Not meant as an insult, just that I don't get you at all.

What about the mud slinging and the bandwagoning?

So, here's a post from Pie. In it he displays a heathy amount of what I've been calling townie rage. That's why I unvoted. His response to pressure was very townie. Would
townStardust unvote if that post changed my read?

I'm not even sure how you can read that unvote as scummy, especially since I started a new case on rezombad which would have only distracted from the Pie wagon. It was not at all clear that Pie was going to be the lynch. Here's a votecount from shortly after Pie voted himself. zemanjaski was reading him as town. freedom and Doc hadn't really said much of anything about Pie that I can recall and weren't about to vote for him until Z changed his mind and pushed them hard for a read. That's not the time for scum to jump off a wagon for town cred. Considering probably no one in this game other than me had ever heard of townie rage I could have just said, "Yep, self-vote, scum" and let you guys finish the job without drawing any attention to myself at all.

True, but I read the rage as the scum aggressiveness.
You were last minute unvoting though. On the bandwagoning, you posting wanted lynch counts? Now you got me questioning my vote.
Zem has poorly responded to your questioning, and LMD could have been lurking playing when I re-read them.
unvote
If zem is town; he is going after you cause it would be the white whale for scum to take down.
If you are scum; Zem is just an easy target.
In both case Rcwraspy and G_R are big targets for nightkills. Iamopen2 could be lying thus I can't count him really toward anything beyond a voter. How would he know who is the miller to save Rcwraspy during the night?

I think the prudent vote is for Zem now, but Iamopen2 is a good vote as well. I will wait for Iamopen2 to respond before I vote for Zem.

Hey wraith, I'm actually voting ham right now. What are you talking about?

Damn it! I missunderstood Stardust's list of votes when it said "Want to lynch count".

Back to the drawing board...

not interested in certain players that are clearly good targets and go after players that are outliers

Wait a second. So you're suggesting that townStardust would obviously want to lynch the good nightkill targets, but scumStardust would instead want to save them for the nightkill? Why bother wasting a lynch on a perfectly good townie, may as well kill some of the unknowns? Is that it?

Where did I name call? Where did I mud sling? For that matter, where did I bandwagon?


As for imopen's claim, let's take zemanjaski as an example for a sec. He hasn't claimed yet. If he did,
would you suspect him more because he might be lying?

Dude, you called me a grandma with CRS.

Town Stardust would not back out of a vote to appear town. You knew we were in agreement on InflateablePie. I can't trust or take anything Zem seriously as he plays himself in every player he takes over, thus I have to read the original players content. LMD appeared town to me. Zem always loads his posts with leading questions and trap responses. He is a lawayer! All their writing sounds summy to some extent. Zem plays aggressive and takes poor gambles. Nothing has changed from he original chractor to the LMD Doppleganger.

EDIT
Name calling, mudd slinging...bandwagoning. I am giving state of game and end results of voting. Those are not scare tactics. They are considerations. I seriously doubt LMD was scum.
You backed out of previous votes. You claimed town positions as if you are vote shopping a target (not interested in certain players that are clearly good targets and go after players that are outliers). Zem might be scum but he posts with so much pomp that is hard to read, thus I look at LMD posts instead.
on Iamopen2, I can not confirm his claim and it would be an easy gamble to seal himself as town. You two voting together is what caught my attention. You also placed his name directly after yours. Folks tend to group each other together without thinking about it.

Jesus, Wraith. Playing with you is like playing Werewolf with my alzheimer's-stricken grandmother.

What's scummy about my voting record?
Why are you using scare tactics? Of course we'll be 2 townies down if we lynch town today. That shouldn't stop us from lynching someone.
Why are you so concerned that Z might be town yet you seem to have no fear at all that I'm town?

I went into detail earlier about the double voter, but it is very likely a town ability.


Stardust's official want-to-lynch count!

zemanjaski - 3.5 - Stardust, imopen0.5, GR, rcwraspy
hamfactorial - 1.5 - imopen0.5, GR
Stardust - 3 - zemanjaski (?), hamfactorial (?), Wraith223

nNeed to hear from: Jones, freedom

Name calling, mudd slinging...bandwagoning. I am giving state of game and end results of voting. Those are not scare tactics. They are considerations. I seriously doubt LMD was scum.
You backed out of previous votes. You claimed town positions as if you are vote shopping a target (not interested in certain players for ones that are clearly good targets). Zem might be scum but he posts with so much pomp that is hard to read, thus I look at LMD posts instead.
Because I can not confirm his claim and it would be an easy gamble to seal himself as town. You two voting together is what caught my attention. You also placed his name directly after yours. Folks tend to group each other together without thinking about it.

That break down from on Zem was really good. I think both Zem and stardust are scum to some extent.

Here is the issue I see. Iamopen2 could be lying on his role and Stardust has a scummy voting record. They are both voting together to lynch Zem. Rwcraspy, I really want you to question your vote based on that. If we lynch Zem and he roles town; scum will night kill another towny. Thats 2 more down.

Is a double vote a town ability genarlly or scum? I find another ability to night kill of a scum very broken. Can we confirm G_R actually has a double vote?

Based on my facts, Unvote, VOTE STARDUST I find the evidence of possible lies and scummy voting coming together for a vote to be scum team.

Wasting a day/time on Rcw is dumb. Ham has now started talking more. I suspect he was lurking on purpose and Stardust and I raised enough stink to get him to post more.

Rcwraspy, why so quiet? Who do you find as scum?

I'm good at math, not interpreting passive aggression. What's incorrect about my mod analysis? I posit that Suga wouldn't replace Z into a mafia role because he'd have an advantage from town interaction prior to death.

Town:
Freedom
G_R
Z
Wraith
Raspy

Null:
Mogadishu Jones
imopen2

Scum:
Stardust

Why would you hold Freedom at Town with all the odd to pure scum posts? What about Stardust is sum to you? Simple break down will be fine.

No, the need to re-lynch again to prove town was a wate of time. At least I thought so before. It actually never confirme town as we never saw the blue typing. I need to see the body or credentialsfor me believe town. Zem put up a significant rally to gt this done. It's just a small point to consider.
Where they hell is everyone else?

Oh. Well, now that rcw is proven to be proper unlynchable, he must be town. That ability on a scum player would be unbalanced since we would need our vig to shoot him. So far there's no evidence we even have a vig at all (since rezombad was likely scum).
To make that ability balanced on a scum player I'd say we'd need maybe 5 vigs in the game. So... yeah, confirmed town.

Day kill scum ability seems rather off. It is complete Bull shit that we don't know if Rez was scum or town. If they die, we should know.
The new replacement for Doclawless is less active than Doc was. Useless. To many lurkers.

No, the need to re-lynch again to prove town was a wate of time. At least I thought so before. It actually never confirme town as we never saw the blue typing. I need to see the body or credentialsfor me believe town. Zem put up a significant rally to gt this done. It's just a small point to consider.
Where they hell is everyone else?

Another point you missed Stardust on Zem. He wanted to re-test Rcwraspy. That is wasting time to keep a no vote going to stall the game out through the holidays.

Evidence is evidence and I will present it all.

Also, your effort to stall the game with a zem vote is neat means to get a no vote and a free night kill.

Also, we're lynching zemanjaski toDay. hamfactorial is probably scum, but Z is scum.

If you think Ham is scum and there is a significant consensus that he is; why are you squrewing around with a Zem vote? No one but you wants to vote for him. You back out of votes at the last minute. You lost credibility. My gutt says you are defending Ham.

Damn it! I can't watch TV and type!

EDIT- "I am just looking at what was said".....

@Rcw, How are my posts confusing? I present clear info and try to be as open as possible. Freedom has been acting rather scummy in recent posts. If there is a significant movement to vote freedom; i will vote freedom. He has "dropped the hammer" when he previously did not want to. Very sligh way to appear town folowed by a vote to kill a towny. Shaddy voting is scummy to me as Stardust has done.

They're getting better - like this one and your point about Freedom.

In general though, you confuse me because sometimes (particularly early on) you seem to approach the game with
the mindset you'd imagine a real life cop/detective would for a real life crime. This is an internet game with different characteristics, some of which operate opposite what you may assume in real life.

I had just binge watched NCIS and Castle. I was quite abit primed for that. As of now, I amjust looking at the looking at what wa said and comparing it to what happened. Freedom is the only one that is feeding pure comment evidence so far that is pointing scum.
I believe this is a simple list of folks that freedom seems to give little or no correspondence with.
Stardust
Ham
G_R
Iamopen2 (just wanted to add for everyones purpose)

I don't know what to make of stardust. I think wraith has made some good points but I always have so much trouble reading stardust that I am weary of lynching our best player...

I don't like freedom's last few posts. I think it was obvious what wraith was trying to say and he seems to be trying to twist the words around to get an easy lynch.

Ham needs to post something, anything. A read or a case. Until he does, my vote is going to be on him.

Vote: Ham

Kpaca, you replaced into the game and then said nothing except that you are vannila town. If you are town then you need to help us. There are starting to be some new posts so start contributing something.

RCW is now confirmed town, he should post some reads and help us out.
n
Thank you for reminding me about your double vote, GR, I had forgotten.

I'm not sure if the NK would be RCW or not...I never said how many bus driver shots I have.

Unvote, Vote Ham

Apperantly , I can't get anyone to go after stardust with me, thus Ham it is. I hate to go after lurkers, but damn...after studying past games; lurkers tend to be scummy.

@Rcw, How are my posts confusing? I present clear info and try to be as open as possible. Freedom has been acting rather scummy in recent posts. If there is a significant movement to vote freedom; i will vote freedom. He has "dropped the hammer" when he previously did not want to. Very sligh way to appear town folowed by a vote to kill a towny. Shaddy voting is scummy to me as Stardust has done.

There HAS to be one, otherwise there's no use for a miller. Unless it was Rezombad, they better come forward with their results right now, because that would narrow the lynch pool significantly.

We should attempt to lynch rcw first thing toMorrow as well.

Who do you want to lynch currently?

past recent threads said why. Stardust knows the right answers as he should not if town

Care to clarify? Because this sounds scummy as hell.

Ham is just lurking with the caveat that he will respond if asked questions. Worthless to town?

Possible, but he said he was busy when this thread was active. We're already down 3 townies, so lynching based on quietness seems too risky.

Oh shut up.

Really? because to me, it looks like you just said "he knows more than he should. We should lynch him."

I am working with real evidence of what was said and what happened in vote results/night activity. That's all I got to work with. I find stardust to be giving perfect calls and bailing on votes that prove town to protect self. It's just to obvious and I am surprised you would not notice this. Unless you are in league with stardust; give me a reason why I am wrong? I am listening.
Lastly, why do you not share concern that rcwraspy and iamopen2 are not
actively going after scum; they are now perfect targets for night kills. Why sit on their ass?

past recent threads said why. Stardust knows the right answers as he should not if town

Care to clarify? Because this sounds scummy as hell.

Ham is just lurking with the caveat that he will respond if asked questions. Worthless to town?

Possible, but he said he was busy when this thread was active. We're already down 3 townies, so lynching based on quietness seems too risky.

Oh shut up.

I get tired of re-typing the same shit you guys are to lazy to look up. I even numbered it in order.
You are still on my list. No one seems to give a damn about you to vote except G_R.
What I don't get is why rcwraspy and iamopen2 are not being aggressive in going after scum. It's like they don't care or even try. Maybe I am wrong. This game is all kinds of fucked up.

Pretty sure the problem was holidays.

Wraith, can you recap why you'd be ok lynching either Stardust or Ham?

past recent threads said why. Stardust knows the right answers as he should not if town, bailed out on votes to protect self, goes after zem with poor post evidence, and seems to not notice or avoid questioning with more questions.

Ham is just lurking with the caveat that he will respond if asked questions. Worthless to town?

If iamopen2 and rcwraspy are town as I find; why isn't stardust working with them to lynch possible scum? They represent a power swing vote and not working with them seems anti town to me.
There are really good liers in the mafia thread as I was shocked last game I played. Thus the end result evidence and lack of association are more important evidence. Bad posting is just support points that someone is possible scum.

The problem here is not time but certain folks not talking at all or just waiting for someone else to tell them what to do. Lame.

Anyone have an opinion on who to vote for and why? My top picks are stardust and ham. It would suck to loose a day with out a vote.

Someone give me a tl;dr of the game cause checkbox, vanilla town and as vanilla town I'm too damn lazy to read 17 pages of mafia.

Useless much? Not reading 17 pages of what has happened shows scum in my opinion. If you don't read it; are you a liability then? Taking someone else's interpretation of the past events could lead you to vote with scum.

Mogadishu Jones, hey what's up.

You wanna know how I got these scars?

could not help it. I play serious here.

Raspy, as the confirmed town, what are your thoughts?

If we can't kill him; he has to be town. If he is scum; then here are only means to kill him.
1. Rez has to shoot him to get rid of him. Bad mod game then.
2. Raspy has to be the last scum left to be lynched if that is his ability.

Alright, got a clear head now and am no longer in CQB bloodlust. I reread alot of waht was posted by Zem and Stardust. Both have really good points, but it's just a feel good session. I prefer looking at the body and the scene of the crime.
1. Rez died
2. RCW was voted to die
3. I am open claims he saved RCW and killed Rez.
4. Rez's ability had to have only one shot.
5. Stardust claimed he or she would die first and needed to get a point across
6. Stardust knew IP was NOT scum (was right)
7. Zem pushes for test lunch of rcw
8. Stardust call that scum tactics by yesting one shot ability, but many new it would not work anyway based on wiki searches of roles.
9. Zem defends himself from attacks
10. Stardust continues to attack Zem without considering why she was not night killed in the first place.

Based on these facts, I am seriously considering Stardust not being town. The facts she knows on who is town is
always right, but who is scum has been wrong so far. I have been wrong, but have not given any prophetic calls that were right. Zem has been wrong just as often as I (except the test role of RCW), but has not made any prophetic calls or bailed out of a vote. Ham has been seriously way to quiet and I think Stardust is doing all the play calls for the scum. The third scum will be hard to find as G_R and freedom look good for it, but no one seems interested in them.

Based on my findings, I VOTE STARDUST cause she knows to much and was NOT killed in a night kill. Iamopen 2 could be lying, but saving rcwraspy to kill rezembod is just to good a result to miss as Stardust should have been the easy target.

Is the game still on pause? Not anymore!

After reading Stardust's points on Zem, I found she has a compelling arguement. Even if zem tries to discredit the logic/facts; he would still sound scummy.

Vote Zem.

This is inconsistent with your stated approach earlier in the game. Why are you now closing your mind?

Sorry guys, sorry. I was in a candy, Mountain Dew, various sugary foods, and nerd drink induced haze while looking at this between playing between games of air soft cqb. Christmas brings my old friends back for a big
get together.
unvote