Dies to Removal

Apologies for my terrible reads. I'm very impressed with the amount of work the scumteam put in. Wraith was consistently scumhunting genuinely and Dechs was very strong for a first time player.

Does anyone have any advice on my play? I got bored with this game and did not reread, which I think led to my downfall.

I'm so waffly when making endgame decisions, though

If any of you who I listed are actually scum, well played. I'm ready to be done with this game, and I apologize to the dead thread for any poor decision making I made.

Vote Lord_McDonalds

I guess I'm fine dying, and letting another round of night actions play out?

Wouldn't hurt to have more discussion, I guess.

Final reads are that ham is certaintly town, I think Wraith is town, and Dechs is probably town. If Dechs faked all this as a newbie I'd be impressed.

My gut thinks it's a LMD/Red team.

Why?

Hi I'm here, sorry for disappearing.

How does everyone feel about no lynching, Wraith NOT BLOCKING Lord McDonalds, and letting Lord McDonalds send out two pieces of mail?

Sure, I'm dead, but I'm not very useful right now, and you'll be able to work off of Lord Mcdonalds proving his ability.

ham>Wraith>Dechs>RN>L_McD are my tiers, from scummiest to towniest. Has Lord_McDonalds vanished?

No been somewhat busy, work has been remarkably draining this week

few things I want to respond to and I'll prolly respond to them later today/tomorrow morning

OK.

Please answer the question I posted you earlier.

Thanks, ham.

Not exactly sure what's going on here.

Ultimately, I congratulate on whoever is actually scum; you've played extremely well and we're probably going to mislynch.

ham>Wraith>Dechs>RN>L_McD are my tiers, from scummiest to towniest. Has Lord_McDonalds vanished?

RN is clearing townies which is a pretty strong towntell in endgame, but man, my gut still thinks he's scum.

ham, can you do this?

[quote=Cursed_Pride]Can you do a meta analysis of RedNihilist from Fire and Ice Mafia and one of his town games? I remember clearing him as town very early in Checkbox.[/quote]

I really need to pin down my read on Red. I think it'll be more productive than the grid thing.

God why does every time I think I have the game figured out, RN makes me think twice.

You're not going to find my scum buddy because I'm not scum, duh.

Why doesn't my [ham / LMD] + [DK / Wraith] theory sound convincing to you?
Let's at least try to be constructive here, I find this "let's wait for C_P to act on his own" thing very frustrating.

I think hamfactorial is town.

DK/Wraith could be a possibility, but I would have to look into that further.

Who would you like me to dig into? I'll re-read again.

Can you do a meta analysis of RedNihilist from Fire and Ice Mafia and one of his town games? I remember clearing him as town very early in Checkbox.

nAt least try. I can help, if I have time.

This Wraith/RN fight is getting nowhere. Please stop.

I want LMD to show up and answer my question.

My biggest qualm with regards to LMD-scum is that everyone basically agrees that he's scum. I've never seen a situation where that happens in lylo and that person actually flips scum.

I had login issues as well.

My gut says RN is scum, but I'm having serious trouble finding a scumbuddy for him. Dechs doesn't work since he had a very long time period where they could both hammer. If Wraith and RN are scum I will congratulate them. I think ham is town.

RN/Lord_McD? Muh.

I'll put in more work in this game in the morning.

L_McD: Why are you town? I want you to tell me what you've done that makes you town.

I'll post more tomorrow. hamfactorial or Wraith please unvote. I would actually like to get a reread done before we hammer.

I will wrap this up before Friday, hopefully.

I'm reading through and everyone is scumhunting so genuinely that I think someone is fooling me really, really well.

If you believe Ham, then you're forced to conclude that LMD was somehow protected. If it was a townie that had protected him, we'd have seen a claim of that already. All the evidence points to LMD as scum. He's never been particularly helpful this game, but again, I don't want to go down that road because I just don't have the experience to make that judgement.

I agree with most of this, but my gut thinks that Lord_McDonalds is town. I have a hard time explaining it, though. I see the evidence and conclude that Lord_McDonalds is scum, but my gut thinks he's town.

Notice all the "if you believe Ham" and "Ham's claim" kind of language in my post. If I'm wrong about LMD, that'
s because Ham is a lying, scummy genius and deserves to win this game.

I agree with this. If hamfactorial is scum, I think he deserves to win.

SCUM

LMD
Wraith
ham
DK
me
C_P

TOWN

Why is Wraith scum? Please commit and case him.

C_P: I noticed that you never claimed. Do you have an ability?

I am unlynchable, unkillable, and have three votes. /s

Ultimately, I think I want to examine RedNihilist a bit more closely. I think he's coasting on early game town reads and it's plausible that rcwraspy bussed him. Look at this:

I guess it's claim o'clock.

You didn't.

vote rednihilist

Sorry for the absence,
been crazy with finals coming up but I'm keeping up with the thread.

So yeah, RN, can you please commit and case Wraith? You've been at him for most of the game, and I struggle to find REASONS when I look at your posts.

Guys, while it's fun to speculate on how L_McD survived when ham vigged him, I think we should be looking at behavioral evidence here.

I might need to look a bit more in depth but hamfactorial is my only bankable town read. I skimmed his other games and he's actually putting in effort here.

(Funny how it was the exact opposite D1)

Yeah, I'm here. Reading up right now.

Just dropping this here:

hamfactorial (5): rcwraspy, rezombad, Dechs Kaison, Cursed_Pride, Lord_McDonalds

RedNihilist (5): Wraith223, InflatablePie, rcwraspy, Cursed_Pride, imopen2

Lord_Mcdonalds (5): Jack, rezombad, Dechs Kaison, hamfactorial, RedNihilist

rezombad (6): InflatablePie, Jack, hamfactorial, Dechs Kaison, Lord_Mcdonalds, Wraith223

Lord_McDonalds: Why are you town?
RedNihilist: Why is Wraith scum? Please commit and case him.
Dechs Kaison: Who do you think is actually scum?

Wraith and hamfactorial are off the hook barring
first reread.

I am dismayed that everyone is slacking, including me. We need to work to actually win this, guys. Hopefully I can find some time to do this sometime this week.

After the Jack lynch I am not comfortable trusting any sorts of mechanics issues.

Ick at the activity.

-Going to post more tomorrow.

Why not reevaluate everyone, the group is small enough to where that is manageable?

Specifically wraith, there is no way the town had both a cloaked and a roleblocker

-I think I actually need to do this. I don't want to leave anything unturned.

Please unvote. We have tons of time, and we need to approach this slowly. I don't want to make a rash decision and lose.

-Yeah, I think actually going through Wraith's posts will help me solidify my read on him, and make sure that I'm not confirmation biasing the read up.

There are two scum, and ultimately all of you have something that "clears" you, hence us making it to mylo. I'm assuming I wasn't killed because I'd help push mislynches and yeah.

-Can all of you give me links to your last completed town and scum games? That might help me assuage my paranoia.

I plan on doing work now that we're in mylo. -I'm still somewhat surprised that Jack flipped scum, but ultimately mislynches are built into the game, and any mislynch is fine if it helps us figure things out.

Wraith's behavior re: replacing out and Iso yesterday was very genuine. -hamfactorial's vig claim and his genuine scumhunting efforts yesterday make me sure that he's town.

-I would be very surprised if either were scum.

-I plan on looking at Lord_McDonalds, Dechs Kaison, and RedNihilist over some more. -hamfactorial and Wraith are behaviorally cleared in my mind.

I admit I have not been playing as well as I should be, and it's the reason why the scum have kept me alive. Apologies.

I received no mail.

-The Iso kill was certainly unexpected. -I will have to re-evaluate.

-If he's scum we analyze his associations and we have a mislynch to spare.

-I think that Wraith and Dechs are town, respectively.

If you're alive and I'm dead, I want you to focus on Iso and LMD.

Lynch Vote Jack

-Does that jive with Dech's bounced back mail?

rcw was lynched Day 1.

This is Dechs Kaison's first game, and I have trouble reconciling how helpful and eager he is with a scum newbie mentality.

There are no inconsistencies that I can recall you pointing out; additionally, my playstyle holds few to no inconsistencies, especially when I'm scum - so for you to think you've found anything that indicates a scumIso is ludicrous in itself, as scumIso very seldom makes mistakes.

If Jack is scum, are you suggesting that the final scum is LMD? Or that I am? And if all 3 of us are town, or even 2?

Either way, I suggest you re-examine your reads, as you're missing something in the event that Jack [likely] flips town.

-I have solidified my townie-reads here:

-Unless RedNihilist has a guilty check on Wraith, I have become comfortable with my Wraith town read that I hastily
discarded during Day 2. If he's scum this game he's played extremely well, and I see the request to replace out and self vote as being very genuine.
-Normally I would be wary of unverified vig claims but hamfactorial's reveal is very townie, and his Day 1 behavior reaffirms my townie-read on him.
-I'm willing to accept Dechs Kaison as highly enthusiastic town. -I haven't really seem anything scummy from him besides his bandwagonny votes.
-RedNihilist is still highly likely town due to his conviction regarding Wraith, and his associative tells regarding rcwraspy.

Do you disagree with any of them? That only leaves you, LMD, and Jack.

-hamfactorial, do you think Jack is a mafia Cloaker? His proving of his ability in regards to Dechs Kaison is the only reason why I haven't cast the hammer vote yet.

I will hammer sometime today.

why on earth would jack flipping town make me scum

do you think about what you post before you post it

-As far as I'm concerned, the Lord_McDonalds, Iso, and Jack group contains the final scum. Everyone else is behaviorally cleared in my mind, or cleared through associations.

Your slot has been MIA this game, and I'm always wary of letting those players get to lylo. -In addition, there's some naggling inconsistencies that I've pointed out.

If Jack flips town, that confirms a L_McD and Iso scumteam, and I think I'm more sure of my scumread on you.

-I have a hard time believing hamfactorial as scum. He's claimed one-shot vigilante and has been increasingly genuine in his efforts to find scum.

-If Jack flips town, I want to lynch Iso, then Lord_McDonalds, in that order.

I want Lord_McDonalds to test his ability tonight, with RN Mail Tracking him.

Jack's last post is a bunch of fearmongering (it only forces you to lynch two in a row). Only thing that's saving him, sort of, is the pseudo doc claim.

I will probably hammer if everyone has finished discussion.

-Will post this weekend.

Apologies.

Has Lord_McDonalds played a scum game? I remember vaguely following a game and he always burns the town for mislynching him.

Let's see...so, if LMD flips town, I think it'll be fair to lynch the Cloak dude (I don't remember who that was) simply on the grounds that he was probably lying about his ability use if LMD is town.

Putting that out there in case I die.

-Why would you die if your slot has been gone for most of the game and on a list of PoE targets?

His ability is confirmed (Dechs Kaison sent mail to hamfactorial, who was cloaked by Jack, and it got sent back to him). Who would you lynch instead, if LMD flips town?

Also I'm Mr. Zip, speed writer

I can send an extra message each night

Sent none both nights

Paraphrase flavor?

Why would you send no mail when you have an ability that lets you send extra mail? -Makes zero sense.

I mean, you could use it to confirm your ability on N1 or something.

Don't know what Murph was thinking the role was good for, really. You'd have to ask him.

-Kazekiri got back to me.

We'll be claiming:

Rolename, ability names (but descriptions paraphrased), and flavor (paraphrased). No images. We'll also be claiming all mail sent.

Please claim these in your next post.

-I think we massclaim before lynching Lord_McDonalds, though.

I want everyone to fullclaim, actually.

Give me a moment to check the claiming protocols with Kazekirimaru - I don't see it on the first post.

Please don't lynch Lord_McD before we all have completely massclaimed.

-OK, I've completed a preliminary reread (from pages 1-10) and reread through most of Day 3.

Can someone give me a list of Jack's completed games? -He's been very scummy but doctor claim.

My conclusions are:

-Unless RedNihilist has a guilty check on Wraith, I have become comfortable with my Wraith town read that I hastily discarded during Day 2. If he's scum this game he's played extremely well, and I see the request to replace out and self vote as being very genuine.
-Normally I would be wary of unverified vig claims but hamfactorial's reveal is very townie, and his Day 1 behavior reaffirms my townie-read on him.
-I'm willing to accept Dechs Kaison as highly enthusiastic town. -I haven't really seem anything scummy from him besides his bandwagonny votes.
-RedNihilist is still highly likely town due to his conviction regarding Wraith, and his associative tells regarding rcwraspy.

I've noted the above
regarding Jack.

Iso, I have a question regarding your role. Early D1, Captain Murphy breadcrumbed it by saying:

I don't want to and I won't pie, feel free to vote me if you want but the stew is brewing and I'm not going to be lynched for a long time with this role. I get that you are confirmed town but I already said I don't know and you can't muscle it out of me

How is a mail uninhibitor any way a good claim?

Lord_McDonalds, have you proved this role by sending two messages? -Can you claim all of your mail targets, please?

I'm starting to like the prospects on Lord_McDonalds and Iso being the last two scum, though. -Lots of bad signs coming to light.

-Have a bit of time before bed, going to do a partial reread.

Sorry if I'm holding up the day.

-I agree with this:

Guys, focus, here. You're getting lost in the who-sent-what-mail WIFOM and can't see the forest for the trees - who sent what letters is actually not terribly important to catching scum, at least not at this point in the game. One thing I will claim is that I've sent no mail all game.

When town focuses on mechanics rather than scumhunting, it becomes their downfall.

-I'll see if I can reread this thread in a couple of hours. I have some free time later in the day.

-Turning this into a flame war will have an effect on how fun this game is, for all involved. Keep things civil.

I have a hard time believing Wraith could be scum after that threat to replace out. It read as genuine.

-I'll reread the current events sometime today.

Did one of the scum steal my mail last night? -We have two players claiming to have sent me mail, but I never got any, and I sent mail and it was apparently sent to InflatablePie.

-Going to catch up over the weekend.

I still maintain that the Mogadishu Jones slot shouldn't survive to endgame.

-Please stop moving your votes around.

I'd hate for another quickhammer to happen when the day's only just begun.

I received no mail from anybody.

-I think we're getting too bogged down in mechanics discussion. I'm going to try and reread the game soon, and that and massclaim should solve this game.

RedNihilist: Did you receive mail?