Dies to Removal

Looks hot Jsilv. I especially like the Dragonmaster Outcasts being paired with Ojutai's Command. Was talking with my buddies about that, but I hadn't tested it yet.

Not sure if this goes here, or if it belongs in it's own thread. Been testing a little bit, and it's done very well vs GW Aggro and Abzan Control. Currently 2-2 vs some aristocrats brew.


[deck]
Creatures 18
3 Dragonlord Ojutai
4 Mantis Rider
4 Soulfire Grand Master
4 Thunderbreak Regent
3 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy

Lands (26)
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
2 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Battlefield Forge
4 Mystic Monastery
1 Prairie Stream
2 Smoldering Marsh
1 Sunken Hollow

Spells 16
4 Crackling Doom
3 Dig Through Time
4 Draconic Roar
1 Murderous Cut
1 Wild Slash
1 Secure the Wastes
2 Ojutai's Command
[/deck]

Obviously needs tweaking. Mana base could use a little work. The Mystic Monastery's feel like total ass, and so do the Battlefield Forges. OJ's Command seems alright sometimes, and just terrible others, so I'm not sure about it. Other than that, I like it.

M8, did you just call my boy fat?

Mana could probably use some help, but it's only lost me 1 game so far out of 15. Had a Rider and a Cruise in my hand, and no blue until like turn 8. And on the basics, I haven't drawn more than 4 fetches yet, but I'm sure it's not a very good feeling.

Mana Confluence
Nomad Outpost

Ideally, I'd like 14 white sources, 12 blue, and 10 black. I'm going to try 3 Confluence, and cut some Fetches, and see where that gets me.

[deck]
4 Mystic Monastery
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
3 Battlefield Forge
2 Mountain
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Mana Confluence
1 Temple of Deceit
[/deck]

This hits my 14-12-10 goal, gonna see how it runs now.

Not sure if I'm running hot, or if I'm on to something...

8-2 against Abzan.

[deck]
Creature 16
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Mantis Rider
4 Hushwing Gryff
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 20
4 Lightning Strike
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Crackling Doom
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Treasure Cruise

Lands 24
4 Mystic Monastery
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
3 Battlefield Forge
2 Mountain
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mana Confluence
[/deck]

Splashed for Crackling Doom because it deals with everything. Low blue count means no Digs, but Treasure Cruise has been pretty sick. There seem to be very few cards that I just don't want to draw late game.

For the most part. It was definitely a last minute addition while I was looking at the pool of available fliers, and I decided it was a good idea while I was super tired. Ignore it.

Evolving Wilds is bad. Chained to the Rocks as early removal doesn't make up for the fact you'll lose more games to your manabase. Mountains are really bad when you want to cast Jeskai spells, or multiple spells in the same turn.

Gryff turns off the ETB of Quickling...

lol, I'm so bad at reading...


You got me on that one, but I'm no longer sure that Evolving Wilds is bad. I mean, if they played it in the Pro Tour...

Squidward is a character from Spongebob.

You know what Devouring Light does hit, besides Stormbreath Dragon? Everything. It hits Sarkhan. It hits Mantis Rider. It hits Siege Rhino. It does these things, when they are attacking you, which is something that Ride Down does not. I think it deserves testing at least.

Well, I just got annhilated in two mirrors on the DE. I am certainly doing something wrong. Feel free to watch and pick at my mistakes

Round 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rxk29seolI

Round 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw2Op4SE2Ng

Laughed so hard when he had quad Mantis Rider.

My thoughts:
Not having access to Seeker of the Way really hurts you in the mirror.
Disdainful Stroke isn't what you want to be bringing in, not enough targets.
Anger of the Gods, it's a sorcery speed answer, to an instant speed problem. What I mean is, when you cast it, whatever you're killing with it has already hit you for some damage, whether it be a Rider or a Goblin token.
Ride Down is, in my opinion, a useless card.
Mindswipe never really came up, but I don't think it's that good in this kind of deck to begin with.

Since you are already running Brimaz, King of Oreskos, and you've been casting it pretty reliably, I'd suggest adding some number of Devouring Light. It deals with a lot of problems, at instant speed. Can also be Convoked off of Brimaz and his tokens, and Mantis Rider, if you are struggling to get the White.

I'd also recommend a 2-drop. Some of those games were lost simply from Tempo swings. You hold up mana to have an answer for a threat, and then they do the same, and it ends up with you just being beaten to death by a 2/2.

Seeker of the Way is the obvious first choice. Raise the Alarm has also been pretty good to me in various lists I've been trying out.

I also think you, in particular, really need some card draw in there. Either Chandra, Pyromaster, or one of the mana good draw spells currently in the format. Font of Fortunes may also be worth considering, since you can cast it on 2 when you normally aren't doing anything, and it can get you cards at Instant speed when you're holding up mana to counter/burn something and they end up not casting anything. Dig Through Time is most likely better though, given, that's what everyone else is doing.

Play wise, I think you learned by the end what you were really supposed to be doing. You don't cast anything until you are able to swing the tempo into your favor, or if you have multiple threats. Even representing Lightning Strike is powerful. You should probably accept the trade with your Ashcloud Phoenix more often as well. There was a time where you could have blocked a Mantis Rider with it, but didn't. In that scenario, the Ashcloud Phoenix was going to remove a creature, gain you 3 life, and return as a 2/2. It was highly unfortunate that he had the burn spell when you played it down as a Morph, I think you could argue that decision either way, and your thought process was pretty sound.


P.S. I enjoyed watching you play, and your commentary. I look forward to watching Squidward play MTGO again in the future.

[deck]JeskHigh[/deck]

Thoughts? The deck leans on Evolving Wilds pretty hard to allow me to used CttR. Quickling may be too cute, but I've had plenty of times where I had a Hushwing Gryff out, and they simply removed it before playing their second rhino. Quickling lets me blank a removal spell, and in the late game I can save my Gryff and then replay it.

Magma Jet is not in the list simply because of the 6 Fetches, and lack of room.

This exact burn deck has all the top8's on TCG player right now including top8 a 5k, and 2 top8 in same States and one that got 1st at a states.

[deck]
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Seeker of the Way

1 Chandra, Pyromaster

3 Arc Lightning
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames

4 Battlefield Forge
11 Mountain
4 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
[/deck]

Took me forever to figure out that this was 62 cards. I guess subtract 2 lands, and it's all good.


[deck]
Creatures 12
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Seeker of the Way

Other Spells 26
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Arc Lightning
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames

Lands 22
4 Battlefield Forge
11 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag

Sideboard 15
4 Hushwing Gryff
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Banishing Light
2 Circle of Flame
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Erase
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
[/deck]

This seems about right. Sideboarding the land may not be necessary, but I haven't started testing this extensively yet to see how the mana base works. May need more copies of Erase if you expect the silly combo deck to be around in any significant number. Stormbreath Dragon may also be nice out of the side, against Monsters, although it's somewhat high on the curve, and you'd probably rather just burn them out and Palm them once.

Hushwing Gryff seems pretty sick out of the sideboard. Really puts a damper on [card]Nylea's Disciple[/card] and Siege Rhino, effectively just doing what Skullcrack used to do for us.


Edit: I can now play Standard, and tell people to HUSH and TALK TO THE HAND in a competitive setting. It's perfect, that's all I needed to know. Playing this deck at States.

By "the list" I meant a similar R/W burn list, my bad. I'm running 23 lands, no Chandra main board, 1 yolo Font of Ire main, and Tormenting Voice. This is mainly because I don't have a set of Rabblemasters...but to be honest, does Rabblemaster even connect that much? Seems like even a 3 drop is too slow for what this deck is trying to do (takes a bit long to start getting value, then just gets stonewalled). I was trying out Brimaz because I love Brimaz and he can attack into a few more things, but it makes the mana base pretty wonky (4 Evolving Wilds type wonky).

edit: Anyways, should we make a separate thread because I think these will be two different decks as they evolve (Jeskai leads to a much more controlling post board game). Maybe just edit your Tilt-o-Matic post to be about R/W burn (because it is still a Deflecting Palm tilt-o-matic deck) rather than...Naya Prowess Become Immense or whatever you posted in there lol.

Eh, I'd hate to clutter that Tilt-o-Matic thread with an actual good deck.

I think it's fine in here, unless someone wants to just make a thread for R/W Burn.

I've been playing around with the list on MTGO because it was so cheap for me. I'm not sold on it yet. Some games feel unfair and unlosable, but I also have games where I just flood, or draw a creature entirely too late (no repeatable damage source). The fact that there is no hasty flier in R/W is a big letdown...unless we go down the Flame Wreath Phoenix route???

From my limited testing with that list, I found that 24 lands was too many, and bumped it down to 23. I'm also not particularly sold on Chandra, Pyromaster in the main. 22 may be the actual correct number, with 1/2 in the side for going bigger on Walkers/Fliers.

You have 2 choices for fliers. Ashcloud Phoenix, or old faithful, Stormbreath Dragon. I think the deck could stand to run 2 Phoenix in the main, and maybe sideboard 2 Dragons and a land or something, for specific matchups. I suck ass at making sideboards though, and decks in general, so don't take my word for it. (*Hasn't done a single good thing since Red Devotion rotated*)

There is also Wingmate Roc, but it has double white, and you have to trigger Raid to get value out of it, and the birds are 3/4's, and etc etc, don't play it.

Been playing past 4 hours and still have not dropped a game with Boros Burn, on cockatrice mind you.

So much more consistant than Jeskai omg..

Perhaps I should have posted that list in this thread...

Anyways, I prefer straight R/W to Jeskai, just for consistency.

I tested the R/W list, and posted my own list in the R/W aggro thread.

It does really good against Jeskai Burn, mostly due to the lands and the mainboard Deflecting Palm's. Less self inflicted damage, and less lands coming in tapped. Even on the draw, the R/W list just takes control of the matchup due to not losing any tempo to the lands.

I personally dropped Jeskai entirely just due to the mana base. I'll be playing R/W or mono Red at States this weekend. I kind of like how R/W control looks right now too.

Niche in a meta dominated by big green creatures and rabblemasters???

Plus game 1 no one will play around it, giving you huge blowout potential. People think it is in the board.

It is bare minimum Do 3 dmg to target player, gain 3 life.

It can easily be 4 or 5 damage.

I personally agree. You'd be insane to not be playing this in the main deck right now. It's just free wins. Not only is it good against Green archetypes, but it's also good in the mirror.

Anything particularly good in the mirror?

Being on the play.

Searing Blood, Lightning Strike. Anything that lets you kill one of their creatures at instant speed while being behind 1 land.


Edit: Anything that you can do, while on the draw, to answer their threat when they tap out for it. This lets you untap, and play an uncontested threat. Swings the tempo back into your favor.

In line with kait's thought of dropping the 5 drops one could run flame-wreathed phoenix. 4 mana gets you either a 5/5 flyer (harder to deal with than ashcloud though it usually means the opponent has a way to deal with it giving you potential insight into the cards they have), or a 3/3 flyer with haste and better recursion the ashcloud (would rather pay 4 again than 6 for a shock effect but thats me).

You can respond to Flame-Wreath's ETB ability and kill it with a Lightning Strike or Bile Blight and it won't recur. Ashcloud will always
recur, though it is weak to Magma Spray compared to Flame-Wreath. Ashcloud dodges Suppression Field, if that's ever relevant.

Correct, which is why Flame-Wreathed is shit. The same thing goes for Fanatic of Xenagos, to a less detrimental degree.


Think I'm going to just netdeck the first place Jeskai list, and make some small tweaks. Glad I didn't trade my Narset off today. Probably sleeve up a mono-red deck as well, and I'll just switch between them depending on the meta.

[deck]
Creatures 15
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Mantis Rider
3 Satyr Firedancer

Walkers 2
Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells 19
4 Magma Jet
2 Lightning Strike
1 Deflecting Palm
4 Searing Blood
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Stoke the Flames


Lands 24
6 Mountain
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Temple of Epiphany
2 Temple of Triumph
4 Flooded Strand
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Shivan Reef

Sideboard 15
2 Circle of Flame
2 Erase
2 Raise the Alarm
1 Keranos, God of Storms
3 Deflecting Palm
2 Negate
3 Suspension Field
[/deck]

This is what I ran at the $5k. I changed it to this the morning of the event after thinking a bit, and it dawned on me after round 2 that I really should have been running 23 lands. Chandra is kind of unnecessary, as she mostly just got cast and then padded my life total by dying.

I also want to mention that Seeker of the Way was mentioned in this
thread multiple times, it's just that no one really tested it. It was always a creature that I considered running, it just didn't feel like there was any room.

Satyr Firedancer was pretty solid in the main, and I definitely don't regret it being there. The decks main weakness seemed to just be getting overrun. They get a Rabble out, I remove it next turn, but they still have a token left over. Mardu Ascendancy was a beating, although I did still manage to beat that guy. Elspeth was a problem, since I'd kill her next turn, but then I had to deal with 3 little tokens.

5-3 at the $5k today. I did get paired against my teammate in a later round, and I gave him the win since I personally thought his deck was better suited for the meta.

I ended up not running any Sarkhan's or Dragons, and I didn't really miss him at all. Had 3 Firedancer main, 4 Temples. I'll post the actual list after I sleep for a while. So tired.


Also, apparently I'm a fucking legend now, due to Deflecting Palm. Here's the story, and I heard everyone talking about this shit for the rest of the event. The guy I played against was laughing so hard afterwards, and he took pictures of the board state and shook my hand. He said he couldn't even be mad about it.

Game 3.

Him: Green devotion, at 20 life. Has 2 Courser's, an Arbor Colossus, an elf, and a Caryatid or two. There is an Arbor Colossus on top of his deck. Earlier this turn he played a [card]Genesis Hydra[/
card] for 10, and put a Polukranos into play.

Me: Burning Freedom, at 8 life. Have a Goblin Rabblemaster untapped, and 2 tapped Goblin tokens, 5 lands. My hand has a Jeskai Charm, a Searing Blood, and 2 Deflecting Palm.

He attacks with the 2 Coursers, the Arbor, and the elf. I Jeskai Charm the Arbor on to the top of his deck, and block one of the Courser's, then follow with a Searing Blood to finish it. This puts me down to 5, and he goes to 17.

I untap, draw a land, let out a sigh, and pass, hoping that he does the one thing that will win me the game. I have 2 untapped Goblin tokens, so he monstrosities Poly-K for 7 mana, killing my 2 Tokens, and making his Poly-K an 8/8...

He swings for the fences, and I cast Deflecting Palm on his 10/10 Gen Hydra, and the other on his 8/8 Poly K. After damage, I drop
to 3, and he drops dead.


The card is real.

I played my deck a bit yesterday. I liked it a lot. I saw some issues against five toughness dudes like Master of the Feast, Siege Rhino, and Nyx-Fleece Ram, but sideboard cards like Glare of Heresy, Erase, and Fated Conflagration help a lot. In fact I'm considering moving a Fated Conflagration to the main deck.

I think it's best to approach a lot of matches not as a burn deck but as tempo control. This isn't Boros Burn of last season. We don't have Skullcrack, Helix, Pyromancer, or Phoenix anymore. Instead we are going to need to lean on Chandra, Sarkhan, Rabblemaster, and Mantis Rider. We're going to be fighting a lot on the ground which is why I like Satyr Firedancer maindeck.

Chandra was awesome as always. Swiftspear allowed me to turn five
kill someone. Swiftspear into Swiftspear into Rabblemaster into Jeskai Charm your Master of the Feast was brutal.

Satyr Firedancer was a damn house. I see no decks without creatures and being able to fling damage to the head while still killing creatures is insane. Get two on the field and it's over.

Mantis Rider is a boss. Can't say enough good things about this guy.

Rabblemaster is Rabblemaster. Run him.

You make a solid case for Satyr Firedancer. I'm going to test 4 out in the main today, and if I like it, that's what I'll be running at the $5k tomorrow morning.

Also going to test out 2-4 Temples. When I don't have a Swifty in my hand turn 1, I wouldn't mind playing a Temple.

It's possible that the Junk deck I played against was bad, but I didn't have any issue with it a few days ago.

The main deck that seems to be a problem is this B/W Control deck with the mainboard Sheep. I also had trouble today against Mono Black Aggro, strangely enough, I think due to my land base mostly. I also learned that Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker can be Downfall'ed in response to the +1, which makes him feel super shitty.


I'm being pulled in 2 different directions now.

1. Drop the Monastery Swiftspear, which allows me to actually run Temples/Taplands, and lets me play some bigger threats.

2. Drop the Dragon's and Walkers, subtract 1 land, and add in 4 more aggressive creatures. The creature would preferably be a 1-drop, or perhaps a 2-drop. Firedrinker Satyr, or [card]Seeker of the Way[/card:
3kmpt9qb] both seem like decent choices. The other option would be Raise the Alarm.


Also, I think I may have asked this before, but how has Goblin Rabblemaster been doing for everyone else? Sometimes he's exactly what I need, and I get to go on the beatdown path, but sometimes I really just want to stabilize. Mantis Rider has been perfect in this regard, since I get to attack and then he chills and blocks if I need it.

Maybe this is where my sideboard is supposed to really step up, idk.


I'd like to hear some thoughts on the deck in general, and what you guys have been learning from your testing.

Charm has a lifelink mode

I've actually been eager to use that mode with Rabblemaster + tokens.

Oh, and Mantis Rider + Stoke the Flames is sex.

You'd be surprised how often both of these things are very relevant. I've used the Lifelink mode with a Rabble out, 2 tokens, and a
Swiftspear before. The guy was trying to race me, and just didn't expect me to be gaining 12 life after an alpha strike.

Well, someone on the team finally managed to sleeve something up that didn't just get raped constantly by my list, and it's Black White Control. His deck is like, 3 Elspeth, 2 Wingmate Roc, 4 Ram's, and the rest is removal. Such a pain to deal with. What happens is that he plays a Sheep turn 2, and if I don't remove it immediately it kind of carries him. God forbid he get's 2 out. I will be testing sideboard games against him tomorrow, and we'll see how that goes. As of right now though, I'd say I'm at a 35% win rate in game 1 against it.

I will say though, that I'm not terribly concerned with it for this first event. I haven't really caught wind of any sort of legitimate Control decks popping up online, so hopefully that means it's under-represented at this $5k.


Otherwise, I learned a little more about my sideboard today against the other decks in our current testing pool.

[card]Anger of the
Gods[/card], it's kind of just unnecessary. Testing tomorrow will have zero of these in my side. It's a sideboard card for other small aggro decks, but the list is already hosing them regardless due to all the 2 mana burn spells, and Mantis Rider giving them the dick along with Taylor Swiftspear.

Chandra, Pyromaster, seems kind of greedy. She's like, my favorite card in standard, but I just kind of haven't found a use for her yet.


For the future:

[deck]Sideboard[/deck]

Everything that was already in the board has been doing it's job very well, but as mentioned above, Anger of the Gods and Chandra were just kind of weak. Circle of Flame is pretty rad, in that it kind of hoses small aggro in to the ground. It's also just kind of
hilarious that I can kill X/5's from this thing dealing 1 damage to them when they attack me. Suspension Field is there as an earlier answer than Banishing Light, because I don't want to Banish a stupid Sheep on 3, by which point it has gained them 2 life, not to mention if it blocked my 1-drop, and at the same time, it is already Exiling anything that I wouldn't want to point Burn spells at. Glare of Heresy is kind of just a catch all for anything playing white, my only gripe is that it is Sorcery speed, and therefore might get dumped.


Other considerations:
Seeker of the Way, I like the guy a lot. The problem is, who do we want to gain life against? Is he supposed to be blocking things against small aggro? Why aren't we just burning the little twerps? It's a card that's good in a matchup that is already almost a bye. I hope this card see's play somewhere other than Limited,
but I don't think this is the deck for him.

Erase, because fuck Courser and fuck Nyx Fleece Ram. Oh, and fuck gods too, and that Banishing Light, or whatever else it can possibly hit. The problem is that it's so similar to [card]Wear // Tear[/card], and that card was already proven to kind of be a dud for burn. Sometimes it ends up in your hand, and you just can't find a target to point it at. I just need to compile a list of Enchantments I hate, and then decide how common they will be I guess.

Satyr Firedancer, everything just kind of seems too big now. I will admit to not having tested him, but I just don't see him putting in the same amount of work as before.

Narset, Enlightened Master, the effect is pretty sweet for a deck like this, but the mana cost is so goddamn expensive. We are talking about having a card only do something for us on turn 7, granted that we were able to play a land every single
turn.

Ashcloud Phoenix, the bird is actually pretty sweet, but

Profane Memento, another option in the realm of life gain. I just don't find gaining life to be super important, and when it is, there is always Jeskai Charm's lifelink ability, which by the way, has been fucking sweet.

[card]Dragon's Eye Savants[/card], I actually just thought about this. I'm super tired, so I'll have to think more when my brain is properly functioning. Seems kind of nifty though, to take a peek at their hand for a removal spell before you run a 3-drop out on turn 4.

Soul of Shandalar, I expect the big guy to see play eventually. I mean, come on, it's a fucking 6/6 with First Strike. Blocks for days, and still has some value in your graveyard. 6 mana is not where I want to be placing my faith though.

Fated Conflagration, would probably be playable if it
didn't have 3 red symbols in it's casting cost. Not to mention it's just narrow since it doesn't go to the dome.

Gods Willing, I know I'm not playing many creatures, but removal is still super annoying. Would feel really good to blank a removal spell every now and then, or just kind of get my Rabblemaster to not be able to be blocked for lethal. Maybe I should just run more Negate, idk.


I'm super tired, that's it for tonight. I look forward to checking this thread in the morning. I feel like we are on to something with this Jeskai deck.

What did you take out for the Mana Confluence Jasper?

With 3 Deflecting Palm in the MD do you need the 4th in the SB still?

I really like the aggressive approach the deck takes, will be very interested to see how the new meta shapes up.

2 Mountains. The 4th Deflecting Palm is just there because it is super good against decks that are trying to go for big creatures.

This happened pretty often yesterday during testing, with me on the play:

T1, Mountain, Monastery Swiftspear, attack for 1
Their T1 they play a Fetch/Pain land, and then a Elf/1-drop.
My T2 is an untapped red source, Searing Blood their guy, prowess trigger, attack for 2.
n
At the end of my turn 2, they are at 13 life. Generally speaking, all I have to do at that point is just sling the rest of my hand at their face to win. Sometimes you just get these super aggressive starts, but a start like this isn't even necessary to win. Even with a slow start, say, Jetting something on T2, and then finding the appropriate mana to make your turn 3 Mantis Rider/Goblin Rabblemaster happen, you are still being very aggressive.


[deck]
Creatures 13
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Mantis Rider
1 Stormbreath Dragon

Walkers 2
2 Sarkhan, Dragon Speaker

Spells 21
4 Magma Jet
2 Lightning Strike
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Searing Blood
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Stoke the Flames


Lands 24
6 Mountain
2 Island
2 Plains
2 Mana Confluence
4 Flooded Strand
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Shivan Reef

Sideboard 15
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Banishing Light
3 Disdainful Stroke
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Keranos, God of
Storms
1 Deflecting Palm
2 Negate
[/deck]

Added 2 Mana Confluence, 1 more Deflecting Palm, and 1 more Magma Jet. Tested out pretty well. There was only one game where Mana Confluence directly caused my death, but that was a strange game to begin with anyway, since I flooded, but all non-Mountains.

This deck is fucking sweet. Of the 4 decks I've been testing against with my squad, my worst matchup of them is still 60% in my favor game 1.

Costs five mana.

Pretty much this. At the same time, my hand is getting low by then anyway.

More testing to be done today.

I am surprised Mindswipe didn't work out for you. Maybe it is because I am playing a slightly slower game than you are. Confluence might help with the mana issues but I worry about all the damage we will end up taking. I will have to test it.

Agree with your judge buddy on morph but you should always announce your triggers. There will be judges that will say you missed them if you don't.

You may be right. It could have something to do with all the Temples you are playing, with the Scry letting you get ahead in either card quality or land drops in general. I very rarely get ahead in mana against green decks, and therefore, they can always pay the X cost, and I never fired off a Mindswipe for more than 5 total mana. I'm also
playing the deck very aggressively, taking lots of damage when I think I can race effectively, and the deck seems to race pretty well when your opponent takes 5+ damage per game from their own lands.

what was your list? I dont think ive seen you post it unless i just missed it.

It's on this page, page 4.

Got some notes from today's testing. I'll spare everyone the notes from the Abzan Weenie's matchup, because that deck proved itself to be a steaming pile. Either that, or it has zero way to win against 2 mana burn spells in general. Searing Blood and Monastery Swiftspear means that he can never attack while I have 2 mana open, or he risks losing 2 creatures and I spend 1 card. The Abzan Midrange guy had classes all day, and then had to go to work so I didn't get to test against that.

Anyway, here's some scribblings relating to the matchup vs RUG:

His decklist: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kaiju-shenanigans/
Halfway during testing, he decided that he hated the Temur Charm, and replaced them with [card]Stubborn
Denial[/card]. He's also running 2 Kiora instead of just 1, since he doesn't have a Sarkhan. And there are 2 Mana Confluence somewhere in there, he really needs to update the decklist on there or something.

My decklist is posted in this thread, above.


The turn 2 Savage Knuckleblade is real, and it pretty scary. The good news is that I did actually beat it in a race, thanks to Deflecting Palm, and some lucky draws set up by Magma Jet. The amount of life lost from lands is pretty good for our burn deck.

Burning out the Elvish Mystic, if you are on the play, is extremely important. No surprises there.

Icy Blast is extremely annoying, but at least you can convoke a Stoke the Flames in response to diminish the value.

The mana base for my list worked much better than
expected. If I didn't have all 3 colors available on turn 3, I generally got them by turn 5, and playing a Mantis Rider on turn 5 is still a solid play if you still have a burn spell in hand. I will say though, moving forward, I will be testing 2 Mana Confluence in place of 2 Mountains. I really like not having any CIPT lands, and this deck really needs all it's mana available at all times.

Individual card notes:
Monastery Swiftspear is fucking awesome. Punishes other aggro strategies for attack into it with mana open, and can give a very aggressive start against decks that stumble with CIPT lands and not having the colors they need. Sylvan Caryatid still bricks it for a while, but it kind of does that to most early drops anyway. This hasn't come up in testing yet, but being able to attack into a Courser of Kruphix with 2 mana open is pretty sweet
too.

Goblin Rabblemaster, I'm sorry I even doubted you. If they don't have the removal spell, then it gets out of hand quickly. It's also worth noting that he's super easy to cast, when all you need is 1 red source and anything else. When they do remove him, that just clears the way for another high impact creature. He also trades pretty favorably with the big creatures in the format.

Mantis Rider, absolutely bonkers, as expected. Great offense, great defense. Attack for 3, and then he's there to block any pesky 1 drops that stuck around, or just chump block so you can survive for the untap and burn finish.

Magma Jet is still sweet, especially given my lack of Scry. May bump it up to 4.

Lightning Strike almost always just went to the face, or eliminated a Kiora every now and then.

Searing Blood, awesome, run 4.

[card]
Deflecting Palm[/card], this over-performed for sure. I'm almost 100% on going up to 3 in the main. It got me out of a bunch of tough spots that no other card would have been able to do. All you really need to do is target a 3 power creature with it to get the value out of it. Great at screwing up combat math and letting you survive 1 more turn to win the game.

Jeskai Charm is pretty fucking sweet. The Lifelink mode is way more useful than I expected, especially if you have a Swiftspear or some Goblin tokens attacking. Definitely performed for me. Didn't use the bounce effect too often, but it was useful when I needed it. 4 damage for 3 mana is pretty nice too, when you need to top deck the killing blow.

Stoke the Flames, still great, run 4. Convoke to save your goblins, kill a Knuckleblade, kill a Courser, kill a planeswalker, etc. Great spell.

Mindswipe, underperformed. I don't think I had it
actually counter anything today, and one time I had both in my opening hand and it ruined me. Probably good in the hyper-late game, but it pretty much didn't do shit for me. 100% on removing both.

Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, pretty sweet. Mostly used the removal mode, and forced my opponent to commit damage to him instead of my life total.

Stormbreath Dragon, 1 is fine. He's still pretty solid, and dodges a lot of the current removal in the format. Late game mana sink if you flood, strong solo finisher.


Moving forward:

Removing the 2 Mindswipe, since they didn't do dick all day. Options to fill those slots include another Deflecting Palm, more Magma Jet, or 2 Turn to Frog. My testing partners today seemed to like the idea of Turn to Frog as removal, blocking the attacking
frog, or dropping a flyer to the ground to push in some flying damage. A lot of my games today involved scenarios where one player was forced into the path of racing, and cards that let you live for another turn or 2 are super solid.

Tips from my judge buddy: Don't forget to call a judge any time your opponent forgets to show you a Morph creature when it leaves the battlefield. If it goes to his hand before showing it to you, then that's grounds for a game loss. Also, you do not have to declare Prowess triggers when you cast spells, only when they become relevant, such as when damage is dealt. Expect blowouts early on in tournaments, due to people forgetting that creatures are bigger than they look. The Prowess trigger is derived information, based on you casting a spell earlier in the turn.

I'm only maybe 3 cards away from having this completed in paper. Opened ANOTHER Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker at another pre-release, putting me at 3 top 4's, out of 4 total attended. Pretty damn sweet, all with the Jeskai pack. Quiet Contemplation is a goddamn HOUSE in limited.

Anyways, back on topic. Meeting with some people on my team to proxy up some lists and get some testing done around noon. Will take some notes, and report back here.

[quote="BlakLanner » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:26 pm"]It can get awkward with all the CIPT lands but I feel they are a necessary evil given the strict color requirements the deck has. The turns that we really want untapped lands are 3 and 5 for the most part so you can play Temples or Monastery on the other turns.[/quote]

I see. I'm considering running some CIPT lands, but the turn 1 and 2 in my list kind of need untapped lands so I can drop a Monastery Swiftspear, and then a burn spell on turn 2, such as a Lightning Strike to the face, or burning out a dork with Searing Blood.

Thinking about if I'd rather want Suspension Field or Banishing Light in the sideboard.

[deck]
Creatures 13
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Mantis Rider
1 Stormbreath Dragon

Walkers 2
2 Sarkhan, Dragon Speaker

Spells 21
3 Magma Jet
2 Lightning Strike
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Searing Blood
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Mindswipe

Lands 24
8 Mountain
2 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Shivan Reef

Sideboard 15
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Banishing Light
3 Disdainful Stroke
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Deflecting Palm
2 Negate
[/deck]

This is about where I'm at with my list. Pretty much copied BlakLanner's sideboard for now, and have dropped the draw spells.

Question: This singleton Keranos in the sideboard, what does he come in against?

Some testing notes:

Winners
Mindswipe: Been everything I wanted and then some. Might move to 3.
Disdainful Stroke: So many CMC 4+ spells. So worth it.
Mantis Rider: This thing is insane. It is a must-answer threat.

Losers
Swan Song: The ability to hit Courser is not worth losing the ability to hit planeswalkers. Too often I really didn't want to give my opponent the token. I have yet to pull off the Swan Song + Searing Blood combo. Moving to Negate.
Manabase: Not enough white mana. Cutting a UR Temple for a UW. UU for Nullify has been consistent by the time I want to use it.

Middling
Jeskai Charm: The extra point of mana hurts. Have not used the lifelink mode yet but the other two have proven useful. Have pulled off the "
put on top in response to fetch" trick.
Deflecting Palm: When it is good, it is REALLY good. I have redirected some really big hits. Not so great against the control and fast aggro I have been seeing. Still worth keeping in the main deck, but not a full set.

Nothing too surprising here, besides Mindswipe performing well. Have you had any trouble with playing so many Temples? Not sure if I can bring myself to play Mystic Monastery either.

Opened a Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker at the midnight pre-release. It's a sign.

I think that's a mistake. This is a format that is light on removal. Rabblemaster is exactly the kind of card you want.

It's just hard, trying to fit both. I suppose that I can cut some number of Magma Jet and Lightning Strike, but then it decreases the number of 2 mana burn spells that the Swiftspear works so well with.

Also having a hard time figuring out if I want Chandra, Pyromaster in the main. So many cards that I want to play, and not enough room.

How has Goblin Rabblemaster been doing in everyones testing? The more games I play test, the less I seem to like him. Sure, it's a powerful card, but it doesn't really fare too well against a lot of things I expect to see(Ie, dies all the time). He also doesn't heavily impact the board when he comes down, just a little 1/1 token. On the other hand, Monastery Swiftspear has been doing great in my small aggro mirrors, and even lets me attack into Courser of Kruphix when I have any 2 mana burn spell in my hand. It's great on the defense, and pretty solid on offense too. You play it turn one on the play, attack in for 1 for free, they play an elf, you Searing Blood the elf, attack for 2. 6 damage by the end of turn 2, without batting an eye.

I think that our creatures having Haste is extremely
important, and therefore, I'm going to start testing without Rabblemaster, as much as I love the card.

For day 1, after KTK release, I'm expecting to see a lot of small red aggro decks trying to run underneath everyone. Mainboard Searing Blood, as a 4-of seems like a good plan. My main concern is the huge amount of Midrange decks, mostly anything green. If I can't burn it out, there aren't a whole lot of options other than just trying to race a 6/6. Arbor Colossus is a huge issue.

How are we going to deal with the big dumb green guys? End Hostilities would be nice, but we have to survive to even do it. Turn to Frog is a thing, but we have to either 2-for-1 to kill something, or it has to be used in conjunction with a blocker. This forces us to really lean on Mantis Rider, because if he falls, we can't block dick. I personally don't feel safe using Enchantments right
now either, lot's of Polis Crusher floating around. Chandra, Pyromaster sure likes killing frogs as well.

12 taplands, I feel like you'll have trouble casting things on curve, and lose tempo as a result.

All things worth considering. Whenever this get's upgraded into a [Primer], whoever writes the actual primer can compile the lists of cards and all that jazz. Here is my current testing list:

[deck]
Creatures 14
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Mantis Rider
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Walkers 2
2 Sarkhan, Dragon Speaker

Spells 20
3 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Steam Augury
1 Treasure Cruise

Lands 24
8 Mountain
2 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Shivan Reef
[/deck]

No sideboard, since I'm not even sure what I want mainboard yet. Currently trying to figure out if these draw spells are worth it, whether I want Rabblemaster at all, and if I need to be running maindeck counter magic. Also debating if I can afford to play Scrylands, when a lot of these cards really really need to be cast on curve.

And when is the damn card image gatherer going to be updated for us?

Let's break it all down, and come to some sort of consensus, as to which deck has the highest chance of success in a wide-open meta. I have been testing LP's list so far and enjoying it, so I'm pretty convinced I'll be playing some sort of Jeskai at the $5k the day after KTK release.

Creatures:
Firedrinker Satyr, ah yes, old reliable stuck around. Are we the beatdown? Do we want to be? Most importantly, can we afford the life loss caused by this little dude.
Monastery Swiftspear, one of my favorites from the new set. Add's value to burn spells if we're just being the beatdown, but also acts as a powerful blocker when combined with burn.
Satyr Firedancer, still here to give us some value. In a set that looks to be dominated by solid creatures, will he be the satyr we need to survive?
[card]Mantis Rider[/card:
3prikrje], our new American overlord. Good on the offense and the defense, most likely an automatic 4-of.
Goblin Rabblemaster, certainly sends a message. This card declares that we intend to race, and we intend to win.
Stormbreath Dragon, nothing more needs to be said than the name. With so much removal being white, he's still capable of putting in work, if not more.
[card]Narset

Gods:
Keranos, God of Storms, always an option, providing bolts or free cards, for that sweet sweet card advantage.
Ephara, God of the Polis, a card advantage engine, but will we be running enough creatures to trigger her? Fuck the Polis, I say. 4-mana do-nothings that don't provide anything until the beginning of turn 6 aren't my idea of fun.
Purphoros, God of the Forge, another God who requires creatures, and more of them. I don't think he's welcome in our
clubhouse, unless we're talking about playing cards that make tokens, such as 3-Goblin thing, or 2-Soldier thing.

Spells, the things we always want more of:
Stoke the Flames, we want 4, end of story.
Jeskai Charm, pretty sure we want 4. All modes have their uses.
Lightning Strike, another card we probably want 4 of, but is it wise to play a spell that's limited to 3 damage, in a world dominated by X/4's and larger?
Magma Jet, less than ideal damage, but good for the power of Scry.
Deflecting Palm, much disputed. I think this card is poised to be in the main deck, given the amount of creature based strategies. Entirely reactive, but I think that's what this deck is all about anyway. You can guarantee to see plenty of free wins and blowouts, with the number of Polukranos appearing increasing every day.
Mindswipe,
the card we need, or the card we deserve? Our own counterspell that can kill, but is it playable? Certainly no more than 3, probably closer to 2, if the deck even wants it.
Steam Augury, oh hey, you still exist. With so many redundant cards in the deck, this looks poised to be an effective 'draw 2, instant speed, for 4'. Also works nicely with our next card in the list.
Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, draw spells that scale the longer the game drags on.
Chained to the Rocks, great removal, but do we have enough rocks?
Disdainful Stroke, does much of the same things that Negate does. Sideboard, or Mainboard? It deals with many of the cards that give burn spells problems.
Anger of the Gods, if this isn't in your Sideboard, I'm not sure you know what you are doing.
[card]
Winterflame[/card], not quite Electrolyze, but it may find a use this Standard, who knows.
Singing Bell Strike, Suspension Field, Banishing Light, will enchants still be reliable as removal, or will there be enough enchantment hate to put it to an end?

Walkers:
Chandra, Pyromaster, the queen remains for another rotation.
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, inherently powerful, the questions seems to not be whether we run him, rather, how many.

Lands:
Basics are good.
Temples, relying on the power of Scry, but can we afford lands that come in tapped?
Pains, untapped and versatile, if you're losing life from one of these, it was probably worth it.
Fetches, or should I say Fetch. The only one we have is for 2 of our secondary colors.
Mana Confluence, gets it's own section, but I don't think anyone cares. Not
worth running with so many better options.
3-color/2-color taplands. Are we this desperate?