Dies to Removal

It is rumored that next block's will include a card named Gutter scumbags

Surely I can't be the only one that raised an eyebrow at the flavor text.

I lol'd.

I think it just got fixed so I have successfully thanked Nai's post.

Try clicking to the right of Quote

What's up, how come I am not able to thank Nai's post? Something wrong with the forum skin I'm using?

Anybody who's ever watched Sene play Magic knows that he's quite capable of changing his mind. ;p

Meh, you don't have the :happy?: smily? Meaning: dunno what you mean by this.

Also I resigned from staff because I was internet mad.

Madding: if you don't want to appeal, then you probably have to wait till we've talked things through with Boubouille and the mass unban thing happens (or not).

@Sene: I'm... finding myself incapable of writing out the words. I'll see if I can summon up a little more courage and try again in a little while, but it's pretty hard shit to say.

I'm available on AIM a lot of the time, so you use AIM and that's easier, that'd be fine by me.

Harkius, right now I'm actually not talking about Gutter-MTGSStaff bullshit (you know, that other megathread...), and I'm not going back on my decision to leave that alone, but this isn't really that. And yeah, @your last post, that's what I'm doing. I'm not bringing it up, but I'll sometimes try to answer stuff if it's being brought up by others.

Anyway, Yanni, I don't remember the exact evidence and stuff, but I suppose you should also appeal nonetheless.

Sene how does the new evading suspension rule affect someone like me?

It means you should appeal.

It's not an automatic thing, though.

Had to catch the train back home, you know. Plus, it's past midnight.

I mean if you're looking to be helpful Sene, I do have one minor tribulation that's been bugging me and I can't quite seem to shake it on my own, but it's rather unsavory and I haven't had the heart to bring it to the attention of any of the other admins.

I'm all ears. PM away, if you prefer.

Sene:

Your posting here will have no outcome that is positive, unless you're trying to stir up shit. I've told you that, and your continued posting here suggests to me that you're trying to cause problems.

This bothers me, though. What does this mean?

I'm at no point trying to cause problems. I'm just trying to explain what we're doing is all But whenever I post I get on average seventeen responses with questions and comments, and it's
impossible for me to keep up even if I wanted to.

Checkbox: You're referring to the Ral Zarek posts. The first one was a spam/troll combo (doing nothing but talk shit about Sally, and not really offering anything to the topic), the second one was pure troll, calling TCM Raymond Babbitt, who is of course the Rain Man and autistic. I don't care if you disagree with my opinion, but do it in a way that actually adds something to the discussion. He didn't. I'm actually surprised we're even discussing that, to be honest...

Kijin: I'll definitely listen to people who come at me respectfully with a complaint about a mod (and indeed about myself). But if it's gonna be all like HE/SHE IS TERRIBLE, STAFF IS CORRUPT blah blah, then I won't care about one word you say.

Oh Sene I don't blame you fully for the fuck ups, you are the only one with balls to come here and talk so a tip of my hat for that

Indeed.

But the system you're part of now is just terribly, terribly screwed up, at times.

That I agree with (again, at times).

As for allusions to old times, 1st off, those weren't so bad, 2nd, we are (probably) making considerable changes, good changes, I think, that will make the forum rules less draconian and intimidating. As for CI, I'm always one who's going to be willing to listen,
but it also demands something from the other guy I'm listening to. I think this is true for all the other admins right now as well.

I didn't issue infractions for disagreements, you know. I issued infractions for spamming/trolling.

You made it a drama storm by giving out trolling infractions when they publicly disagreed with your decision.

If they don't even try to be constructive, there will be infractions, and it will be the user's fault alone.

So yeah, that's where I stand here.

I'll try to quickly explain what's up, mmkay.

The reason why the thread was closed (I talked with Galspanic) was because it was a question that was answered. Had it not been full of vitriol and passive aggressiveness, having it as a thread discussing that rule might have been useful, but it was drowned under trolling and spamming. Borderline stuff that was previously deemed okay in CI isn't necessarily considered okay anymore. We're doing stuff differently in that regard. Heck, in August the site felt so much in the hands of the users that I somehow felt compelled to plea to the users to stop being mean. So yeah, when CI threads are a mess of spamming/trolling/bullshit, then they are much more quickly closed now than in the past.

As for the RLA rules thing in particular, I expect we'll be talking about that... but in the Mod Lounge, sheltered from users who feel like making a drama storm over
it. Had it been a reasonable discussion, CI would have been fine. But the policies we used to have in CI - they didn't work. We'd give up to people who yelling, and as expected, that meant they were yelling even louder next time. The users were too entitled. Now we're trying to make up for it by changing stuff for the better (in the making), make better & fairer rules, but also make it clear in CI that staff's in charge and won't be browbeaten into submission. That's going to be better for everyone, I think.

Well indeed yes Sene

(pssst: your post would have been infracted for spam in the site you moderate. lucky for you we are nice people here )

I posted that because I already knew it wouldn't be moderated for spam

Anyway, you are under the assumption that I recognized you in Lisbon on Friday. I didn't. I wouldn't at all have minded talking with you, so now I guess we've cleared that up

people who are scared of crossing the paths of MTGS banned members IRL (Sene)

Now he is just an elusive fish

this?

I'm more than happy to try to talk about everything that has happened for the past six months or so re: MTGS & the Gutter, but I think that right now, it should be you guys offering your point of view to Boubouille.

If you're all happy with me interfering (including Boubouille), then I don't mind. But I want to know that first.

I don't have my sealed pool here (at the office atm), but I can do that tomorrow.

Also @ our "interactions" in GP Lisbon: I didn't know they existed. You saw me on Friday, but I didn't realize it was you - I didn't ignore you on purpose. In fact, I would have liked an opportunity to talk with you IRL, so since you recognized me, I wouldn't have minded a "hey, aren't you Sene", etc. Because just like I might have misinterpreted you guys as "internet mad heavily burdened by Ancient Grudges", I think you're pretty wrong if you think the same about me.

Anyway, that's where I'll leave this thread. If I post elsewhere around here, it'll not be about MTGS.

At some point, someone is just going to have to let it go. Both "sides" think that they were right. No one is flinching. Let's all move on, can we?

Let's sit around the campfire, sing Kumbaya, puff-puff-pass, and all be friends again. Hein?

I think the morale of this whole thread can be summarized as:

If iridium member _____________ drops by to discuss the bannings at MTGS in the quality of staff member, he will understandably find much criticism from those who got kicked out
If iridium member _____________ drops by to discuss MTG stuff in the quality
of user _____________ , we would be very happy to have his contributions around here, because it is good content that makes internet forums a good resource or not.

I mean I don't mind arguing the merits of my actions and Sene's actions around here, because a frank and unabashed disussion is something that I always appreciate, but I would love if he also could share some of his knowledge about MTG around here if he feels up to it, maybe for exxample sharing his experiences at GP Lisbon, why he chose his Selesnya deck from his pool, and who were the hardest opponents, any play mistakes, etc...

I don't think we'll be able to agree about MTGS stuff yet, so I think we should simply drop that discussion dead at least for the time being. I don't mind trying to contribute with something completely unrelated to MTGS srsbsns. In fact, I'd much prefer that.

@Madding: Thanks I hope you get one, one of these days. Once again, I'd have given you the invite if I could...

@GR: That's what I want to hear. The thing with the "MTGS bashing", though, ill-intended or not, is that I think excessive venting both sets the tone for the forum + people you want to attract to the forum are likely to see it like I said in the OP (as pettiness & grudges).

@Madding:
1) Eh. Here's an issue I have with many of these discussions. You don't seem to see where you screwed up during all of this. For example, N_S' initial trolling spree that lead to basically all of this (talks about a ban -> we all decided against it, but it got leaked -> N_S posts about Curse in what we see as an act of retribution for infractions -> N_S gets banned); kpaca's posts about Curse in Pegs; Kijin's, badguys, Madding's threads about Curse; Shalako giving his gimmick to banned Gutter members; poggydude using Hard Gay to troll and spam; Yanni & Madding evading their suspensions. I
think that we could and should have acted differently when we had the knowledge that you guys sat on this information, for example, but you guys could also have tried to talk with us rather than "blowing up".

2) That's fair enough, and I understand venting. I actually don't really mind if you bash me behind my back as much as you feel like. But like I said, if you want to go beyond a "Gutter 2" and get a real site, you really gotta be about Magic the Gathering and not Magic the Gathering Salvation.

3) I don't think that's where we are. I just think there is hostility between the two sites, and that the leaks we have on staff are connected with this place. It's not actually that bad, as long as it's not used to hurt people - like rianalnn. That PM to him was really not nice. I don't know who was behind it, but if you're reading this and are an active user of this site, there's "having a good time" and then there's "having a good time
at others' expense".

4) I think all the bans were correct. Unbanning is a matter of leniency, not merit, in my opinion. I think there were a few things we handled poorly. But that doesn't necessarily excuse the actions taken.

5) I don't

And yeah, I guess I realize that these posts of mine here are pretty serious and lame. But eh, I'm just doing what I can to explain my side here. Take it or leave it, I suppose.

Aight, decided to expand on my abrasive "OP".

It wasn't meant as a troll/flame/something, blunt as it was. It was actually meant as honest advice (so the thread title is accurate, heh). When Azrael told about this site and its goals, I was happy and hoped it'd succeed. I checked it out, and impressed by the work you had done, I made an account with a fake name/IP to post something encouraging (Yasuyuki or something is the account name), because I was afraid you'd all think I was trolling or something if I posted with my real username. Also, since many of you don't exactly think too highly of me, I figured posting could make noise/drama, so bad idea.

Why did I want your site to succeed? Primarily because of two things:
1) I thought the events with the Gutter were atrocious and I wish they had never happened. But at least this forum lets you preserve the community, which is obviously the
most important thing. So it's good.
2) Competition is great. If you guys manage to do well and be a competition to Sally, that's going to be a really useful learning experience for both forums, I think. We've done it our way for years. If you're able to do well doing things differently than us, that could be a real eye-opener, etc.

So when I browsed the forum last week and saw that all the most active threads (at least so it seemed) + the chat were all focused on Sally-bashing in various ways, I guess I was just pretty disappointed, because it's really the last thing you want to be doing with your forum, I think. Some venting I can definitely understand, but you can't let it become the focal point, at least not if you want to stay true to your goals and evolve to something that's not just "Gutter on a new site". And obviously what I'd prefer is that our two sites (not to claim any ownership of Sally, just affiliation) could try to have a cooperative relationship, or at worst be entirely
separate. What we don't want is "open war" (ridiculous hyperbole beware), which is kinda where we are now. That's only going to be harmful for both sites.

I'm going to be as broad & general as that, and not really dip into the specifics. I know that we've messed up a bunch of times, I'd never deny that. You have as well. Now let's try to move on.

One would think you'd move on and try to focus your considerable resources on building your own welcoming & quality community to rival MTGS, instead of making this a site an outlet for pettiness and satisfying personal grudges.

Just saying.