Dies to Removal

Mcdonalds

No one was emmit, dammit stardust I hate you

Mcdonalds

Day 3: every time I asked myself "Is he really scum, or am I just tunneling him?" he brushed off every theory like evreybody except him was an idiot.
100% would hang again.

Don't blame him, up until day 4 I had no reason to think the town would go after me, imopen was the only one who reasonably looked into me before then but az was tunneling pretty hard on ham, imopen likely could've made a decent case on me and drawn some attention away from ham (meta analysis mixed with presenting a stronger case on me would've done it I feel

Mcdonalds

The bomb vest was something I didn't expect and I figured Dechs had a protection role of somekind, col couldn't shoot me so I discounted that bit, I figured I kragalize Dechs, and then hit col as a fail safe (in case kragalizing did nothing), at that point if Dechs managed to next level me, oh well, he's got it

Mcdonalds

Had fun though, the bomb best was odd, and wouldn't had guessed that was a thing but oh well

Mcdonalds

Town went from throwing the game to winning, huh.

My thought are in the scum chat, tldr: azrael should've never been lynched, in fact had you cooperated and worked with him, i would likely would've been lynched day 3

Mcdonalds

Kekekekekekekekekekekekekeke

Mcdonalds

vote imopen

Mcdonalds

So, with that said, CK, shoot Imopen. You have 48 hours to comply.
Sadly Stardust told me I'm running out of parts, so if I want to do another vig shot like the first one, he won't be ready before the night.

I genuinely do not know what to think of that

Mcdonalds

I'll trust imopen on this one I guess, tomorrow is important though

vote azrael

Mcdonalds

Yeah, I'm aware this isn't an ordinary game. That's why we need to push for a no lynch.
Even factoring in the fact this isn't an ordinary game, mafia is still ultimately a game of information, we don't gain any information about the set up/scum via a no lynch, if anything the scum gain more because they are making the decisions, and they are controlling who dies.

A no lynch favors them, as they are the ones making decisions, we must be proactive in our approach
A no lynch favors them less than a mislynch, which is what I'm sure we're about to get if we go with the information we have. Waiting a day gives us powers and the chance to learn much more. CK will have his vig shot and we can leverage that like the lynch we lose today.

Debatable, now assuming we are in a vanilla setup,in a scenario where the town does lynch it puts more pressure on the scum and makes it harder for them to blend (ultimately what scum want to do), as it gives the town information (ultimately scum cannot simply decide to lynch someone) and you it eliminates potential mislynch targets for scum to hide behind

In a scenario where you don't lynch, you don't play to your win condition (lynching scum), and you don't pressure scum, they are free to night kill whoever because they have plenty of people to hide behind

You want to play to your win condition more often than not.

Mcdonalds

Long weekend, apologize for the lack of posts, if this game continues on much longer, I will likely be mia for 1-2 days at a time due to work, school and other events occuring

Also had a bit to drink (saint arnold's endaevour is good shit if you ever find some) so this is the only legible post I can conjour up

Yeah, I'm aware this isn't an ordinary game. That's why we need to push for a no lynch.

Even factoring in the fact this isn't an ordinary game, mafia is still ultimately a game of information, we don't gain any information about the set up/scum via a no lynch, if anything the scum gain more because they are making the decisions, and they are controlling who dies.

A no lynch favors them, as they are the ones making decisions, we must be proactive in our approach

Mcdonalds

unvote

Mcdonalds

Id like to hear from Dechs and imopen first before that happens

Mcdonalds

Judging by his post, I don't think he will shoot before then either

Mcdonalds

No real need to, he isn't going to shoot until everyone is on the same page and no one is going to hammer

Mcdonalds

Sure vote imopen2

Mcdonalds

Oh, okay

Mcdonalds

Is there any other scenario that you would be willing to entertain, other than

A) Scumbag is lying about vigilante
B) Scum team blocked imopen2 vigilante kill

?

Avoid false dichotomy, there are infinite possibilities we could consider, all we have is what's been posted

Mcdonalds

I'm confused, do we have a vig shot, can someone point me to a post confirming that?

Mcdonalds

Everyone stopped posting again.

Lord McD, CK, Dechs, what questions are still on your mind regarding how we play today and tonight?

We seem to be looking at a few remaining topics:

1. Verifying that no one other than the scum team could be responsible for Imopen being still alive. At this point, o far as I can see, we've eliminated all other player possibilities. It's either the scum team, or a bastard mod issue, which doesn't seem likely within the context of the rest of the setup.

2. We need to decide between lynching me and preparing night actions to stop us from losing to the gambit, or no-lynching today, and preparing abilities to execute a simul-lynch or simul-kill on me and Imopen. This, I think, is where there's some room for additional debate over both strategy, and which faction is more credible. Personally, I'm not particularly partial to one alternative over the other, provided that we have an effective, fool-proof plan for issue #3.

3. Once #2 is decided, we need to decide how best to implement either countering the scum NK, countering the scum win condition, or setting up a double-kill/double lynch mechanism.

If we don't hear any more debate on issue #3 soon, I'll come up with plans of my own to submit to Stardust so that we can generate time estimates.

[skimmed the pervious page or two so if I missed something, I apologize)

1. I'm not going to speculate on information I don't have, all it really leads to is WIFOM and talking in circles (see Gone Postal mafia), and use the information I have, I agree that we've narrowed it down however.

2. If imopen speaks the truth, then lynching/killing you is the first thing we need to do in any scenario and any further discussion is simply to cover our tracks in case of scenario x

3. See above

How I feel it should play out: I feel the town goes for it at this point, if imopen is telling the truth, then we more than likely win the game, if not, then we have another day to discuss what to do,

If we can shoot az, then yeah, we do that.

Mcdonalds

@imopen: why lynch az, when we can simply have scumbag shoot him?

Mcdonalds

If we are up against a two-scum team of Imopen and Red, if CK's got a vig-shot, we can still win this by CK taking me out with it, I flip town, and then the town lynches Imopen, if game's not over, lynch Red in succession.

Actually this seems a lot better, much safer IMO

Mcdonalds

Wow I suck with bold tags

Mcdonalds

VOTE: AZRAEL[\b]

He's scum, I've confirmed it.

Btw, stardust informed me during the night that he would only let me submit one phrase per night. Glad I chose correctly.

vote azrael I like this line so far, if imopen speaks truthfully, we win today, barring imopen/scum pulling some sort of gambit, if not, I'm like 90% sure we can discern who the scum player is quickly

Mcdonalds

Khadaffi, do you have a vig shot? Are you scum? CAAAAAN YOOOOOU DIIIG IT

Mcdonalds

unvote; vote hamfactorial

SCUMBAG

Mcdonalds

So.

*stares at watch*

Looks like Mojo's gonna be showing up any minute now.

1 day , 19 hours left.

Disappointing, a no lynch accomplishes nothing currently so let's not do that

Not to upset if we lynch a lurker spot (hypocritical much, I agree) given the circumstance but what else can we do, I don't think there is enough support for a ham lynch to happen, and it doesn't appear anyone is putting forth a case.

Mcdonalds

Here's my reasoning for voting jones

Jones is a claimed vig (for simplicities sake, let's say he is), now if ham is the today's lynch (I'll trust you on this one), we can ask jones to shoot ham, if he is in fact scum, we win (assuming there are 2), now if he turns up town, sucks but we know jones is more than likely town and we make finding the actual scum that much easier (I feel at this point we are 1-2 flips from simply winning the game, if we haven't already)

Given that he hasn't shot anyone yet (despite his intentions of shooting imopen) I feel the line is to vote jones into doing something, if anyone hammers before he returns, that person is likely scum or should have a good talking to, if he doesn't, we vote him, and move onto tomorrow.
I think that's a decent line of play assuming Jones comes back, and isn't surly about having his kill directed, and actually HAS a kill to use today.

Even assuming he does and cannot use it for some reason, we then better understand what the scum can and cannot do, which isn't horrible (provided people are paying attention and connect the dots)

If he's surly, well, whatever he's surly, and we get to hear him out

In that case, perhaps he presents an alternative plan, and we switch to lynching ham (I feel he is town, although he has given up honestly, but for the sake of advancing the game, lynching him isn't the worst idea)

Mcdonalds

We have time, a lot can happen between now and Friday as well

Mcdonalds

This line also takes into the (unlikely IMO) possibility of a 3 scum team by having jones shoot the other scum candidate

Mcdonalds

Here's my reasoning for voting jones

Jones is a claimed vig (for simplicities sake, let's say he is), now if ham is the today's lynch (I'll trust you on this one), we can ask jones to shoot ham, if he is in fact scum, we win (assuming there are 2), now if he turns up town, sucks but we know jones is more than likely town and we make finding the actual scum that much easier (I feel at this point we are 1-2 flips from simply winning the game, if we haven't already)

Given that he hasn't shot anyone yet (despite his intentions of shooting imopen) I feel the line is to vote jones into doing something, if anyone hammers before he returns, that person is likely scum or should have a good talking to, if he doesn't, we vote him, and move onto tomorrow.

Mcdonalds

Hey everyone. Vote MoJo. His ballsy day one claim is the only reason we think he's town.

Good point

vote mogadishu jones

Mcdonalds

You can use it as a pseudo-cop ability if you have the right phrase, but only then basically

Mcdonalds

unvote

I am town

I am scum

Forgot about that

Mcdonalds

I don't want to get ahead of myself, but I really can't help it.

If you did word it like an actual prophecy machine, we could probably develop two phrases that should definitively tell us who the remaining scum are with true/false values on them.

Brainstorming...
Phrase one: The remaining scum is either Ham, Rez, or LMD.
Phrase two: The remaining scum is either Ham or RedN.

If they're both true, then we hang Ham. If one's true but not the other, it clears Ham and implicates Rez/LMD or confirms RedN depending on which is true. I mean, that covers five of eight remaining players right now. MoJo should shoot one of us today, we'll hang another one, and one should die tonight. That's everybody accounted for. Holy shit, this could solve the game.
Ham is probably the vig shot, shoot him, see how he flips and go from there I feel is the line right now.

Huh? Why would I be the vig shot? And if I was the vig shot, why would I shoot myself? Nice line, does it work while sober?

You're really helping your case

Mcdonalds

That and I don't think that is how imopen's power works (stardust, care to clarify that for us?), unless you want to wait a day for that, but we still need to actually do something today.

Mcdonalds

I don't want to get ahead of myself, but I really can't help it.

If you did word it like an actual prophecy machine, we could probably develop two phrases that should definitively tell us who the remaining scum are with true/false values on them.

Brainstorming...
Phrase one: The remaining scum is either Ham, Rez, or LMD.
Phrase two: The remaining scum is either Ham or RedN.

If they're both true, then we hang Ham. If one's true but not the other, it clears Ham and implicates Rez/LMD or confirms RedN depending on which is true. I mean, that covers five of eight remaining players right now. MoJo should shoot one of us today, we'll hang another one, and one should die tonight. That's everybody accounted for. Holy shit, this could solve the game.

Ham is probably the vig shot, shoot him, see how he flips and go from there I feel is the line right now.

Mcdonalds

Agreed with the above

vote imopen2

Mcdonalds

i should be confirmed at this point anyways. you yourself have said numerous times that i am town or probably town. i am not giving anymore information to the scum. you should be able to see that there is no need for any further details. lynch me if you need to, but that makes no sense.

If you post things like that, your telling the scum that you have a strong ability and you don't wish to disclose it, at this point your faced with, you not working with the town gets you lynched (likely, assuming there isn't a large slip of some kind), the other scenarios put it to the scum night killing you.

Mcdonalds

LMD, where are you at on Ham right now?

Just saw this

Need to read the last two pages a bit more, I've skimmed the past two pages and I still feel he is town, frustrated mind

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