Dies to Removal

This game was frustrating for me. Mafia gets a lucky shot with their tough-guy (which is apparently unblockable) and I don't get to catch Iso. He was basically confirmed scum at the beginning of Day 2. TubeHunter and Murphy were my only other real suspects, so... yeah...

Now everyone sign up for my game!

Can someone prod Wheat on Sally for me?

I'll do it.

EDIT: Done.

Hey, look, we have a slot with a twilight ability. Huh.

Not necessarily. Some mods like twilights. Some mods don't have time to put up a lynch scene right away. There's no defined twilight length, so I wouldn't take that as any proof.

Anyway, pretty sure we've got two dead townies today, so who wants to lynch Iso with me tomorrow?

I'm still convinced imopen is town, but he didn't really prove it like I was hoping he would. Either way, two dead bodies is better than one so long as it cuts down our potential lynch targets.

(But thanks for calling that correctly, Yanni! I was a little nervous)

God damnit Kaze! Just had to go and spoil that didn't you?

"A wagon isn't a wagon unless it has direction" contradicts your vote on Iso. You added a vote to his wagon, but you said yourself that it was a meaningless vote - ie: with no direction. Whatever, don't even worry about it. I'm chasing meaningless tangents.

Just biding my time until imopen gets back.

His wagon was a wagon. My vote contributed by being a vote.

Kay fine to be fair it would have helped if I had contrived a BS excuse with the vote to help pressure/reactions but I'm not used to having to do that.

I don't have any problem with your vote, and I agree with pretty much everything you said here. But that makes the post below a bunch of bullshit.

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v

Don't bother, I remember that post. You seriously have an issue discerning the difference between a wagon and
just votes on a player, don't you?

A wagon isn't a wagon unless it has direction. It has to be going somewhere. It has to have direction, intent, and people actively pushing it. Bandwagons are made for lynching, claiming, pressuring, getting reactions and the like. Can you really look at the two votes on rezombad on page one and tell me honestly that it fits the aforementioned criteria?

Regardless of your answer, the correct answer is no and that's that.

Now I must restate, what is your point?

I honestly don't understand drunkIso's question

Why was Iso's wagon a wagon? Did it have direction?

If yes, how did your vote on Iso's wagon contribute to that direction?

Iso, stardust, void, Tubehunter - town

Slowpoke & kaze - scum

Others - null

No more time than that

Reasoning for Iso, Void and TubeHunter town reads? All three of those are out of the blue. I also find a townr read on them difficult to believe based on their content so far.

Also, why do you think TubeHunter balked at hammering you after this post?

Lets just lynch imopen, he's the strongest scumread and the day has dragged on far too long for my liking.

Vote: Imopen

He's quite sure you're scum... so why is he suddenly so sure
about the double mislynch? I don't see the town mindset in this post.

Then there's this response to your soft-claim:

this sounds interesting

Which is a pretty scummy response.

So you're definitely going to need to flesh that one out.

Stardust's vote probably was not serious. Confirm/deny, Stardust?

I didn't want to lynch Iso at that time, but my vote was serious.

Why did you vote for someone you didn't want to lynch? Did you really think you could pressure iso of all people?

Wagons aren't just about the person being run up. Sure, I was looking for Iso's reaction, but just as important is how everyone else reacted.
n

[...]My vote was as serious as any vote can be fresh out of RVS[...]

so you agree that rvs was over at the point of your vote?

Yes. I see my vote on Iso as the turning point, with Iso's post being the catalyst.

wait so you think people were pushing me in a direcationa/? was it up or down or backwards or what?

Kaze, you should answer this question. You said Iso's wagon had direction, yet you put the last vote on him with the sole intent of building the wagon. Your vote did not
have direction. That's bugging me.

Can you remind me why you're so sure Slowpoke is scum?

Slowpoke (Badly defended himself, same caution tell, bad hop on Iso/Kaze wagon)

Why would you ask this if your vote is already on Slowpoke? It feels like someone asking this would be voting on another wagon.

Because I was losing conviction. I now believe Slowpoke is town.

Last visited: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:56 am

God damn. imopen, you actually are scum, aren't you? If not, throw something out there before Yanni gets here!

Ah, fuck it. Vote imopen.

Should we just hammer TubeHunter at this point?

Fantastic idea! I'll go first. Vote TubeHunter.

If that confirms TubeHunter scum, imopen's town, just sayin'.

Iso, if imopen flips town I'm coming for you Day 2.

wait if imopen really wants us to believe he is town then he should hammer himself, no?

Or just push for the TubeHunter lynch alone, which is what I think we should be doing.

By the way, if anyone is kpaca, they can counterclaim imopen's Condoms claim. His claim feels pretty legit to me though. kpaca as vig is the reason I decided a name claim was a bad idea. Flavour is too obvious.

Unvote.

I'm not at all sure that imopen is scum. TubeHunter's much more likely.

TubeHunter! You're okay with this plan on hammering imopen? If not, we're lynching you instead.

Will respond to other things tomorrow. Holiday here in Canada.

Sheesh. Don't die, Yanni! I want to be able to kill you in the future!

Mmhmm.

Waiting on content from Iso, Wheat_Grinder, imopen2, Captain Murphy and TubeHunter.

rezombad, you should respond to the first bit of my last post at least. That part's actually important.

Nevermind, today or Saturday. Looking forward to it.

When can we expect that reread, imopen? You've been promising it for a while now.

Iso likes to use the role color in our PMs in his first posts (in KNM I mentioned I didn't think it was in the spirit of the game). Then he did it again, so I voted him again.

Okay... So he did something in a previous town game. Then he did it again here. So you voted him. Whatever. The scummiest thing about this is not that you voted him, but that you didn't vote him in your first post.

I actually contradicted myself in post 127; I said my Iso vote was RVS while saying I voted him "because reasons" - then imopen2 engaged me about the vote so I kept the charade up seeing how
long he would dive down the rabbit hole. The votes are so obviously RVS to me that anyone that didn't think they were I see as being up to something...

The only thing I don't like about him is that he's trying to start a new wagon on rezombad, even though he's fine with the Slowpoke wagon.

Meh. Slowpoke wasn't around. rezombad was acting funny. No harm digging at people Day 1 to get more interactions. The number of people involved in Stardust v. rezombad is going to be good for us down the road.

Can you remind me why you're so sure Slowpoke is scum?

@stardust: the bar has not been set high in this game. Most people are posting sporadically and most of the contributors seem scummy to me.

Fair enough. I'm content to keep my eye on you for now anyway.


Slowpoke! Now that you're back, you can reply to this post!

I put thought into it. I had some reasons for wanting to pressure you. And I did not get a town reaction.

What reasons? That's what I'm after. You recapped a bunch of stuff I did, then... nothing. Same as you did for Kaze. You just went on to defend yourself by calling everything I said about you slander. Where's the townie who brings it all together? Where's the townie who at least says, "I think that's scummy because..." That's what I'm not seeing. You couldn't even answer my question as to why you though Pride's first vote was scummy. You just voted me instead.

If
I'm lynched today, this is the quote you'll use to defend yourself when you're pressured.
What conclusion did you draw from this "stuff"?

That this game looks much more similar to your scum game than your town game in a few important ways. I gave my conclusions in the initial post. All I didn't do was walk everyone through it. I wanted someone to check my work, unbiased, because meta is very unreliable in my experience, mostly due to the fact that it can be twisted so easily.

My problem is not that you voted Iso. I agree that you grabbed the bull by its horns - that was a good thing. The bad thing came later when you started saying it might have been scummy, it might not have been scummy, but maybe we should leave Iso alone now because I'm not looking for a fight. That's how I read that
post.

If you're confused about a post, why didn't you ask me to clarify?

Sure is never a synonym for yes. It's weak language. You're right that this situation is different, but it's just as noncommital.

It's not noncommital, and you know it.

I wasn't confused. I'm still not. I read things as I see them. What you tell me you meant is usually less important than what I think you meant. But let's quote that bit directly, shall we? ... Oh! That's two separate posts. Remembered it all being one for whatever reason.

I actually have no idea if what Iso did is scummy, but I'm sure he did it on purpose (i.e. kaze's newbie mafia), what reactions he was looking for, I have no idea. But I don't want to try to out-Iso Iso, and I got some good
reads off of it.

Was my vote on Iso serious? Sure, I knew Iso was up to something, and I don't know what. Could it be scummy? Sure, and I don't want to take Iso's word for whatever it is he was planning to do.

Anyway, taking all this together, we get that you don't know whether or not what Iso did is scummy. Based on that, at the very least you have to admit that this second "sure" is noncommital. Did you mean "yes"? Was what Iso did scummy?

What does an external source have to do with you talking to Kaze? If he's scum, you call him scum, not "not pro town".

Go read the link. Then, go
reread the thread up to that point. Then think for a littlw while about where my town mindset is in the posts you referenced. Then reply to this part of this post.

Can't read the link since I'm at work. Not really interested in explaining this away for you either. How about you just talk about it instead?

You should make your case on CM.

Maybe later. Not interested in derailing this at the moment.



@imopen, that's sort of what I expected you to say. This is how I play mafia. Given that I am professor Stardust, I'm still surprised (read: concerned) that you can call me town at all.

@stardust: yes, I remember it well. X_x however, "most confirmed townie" does not equate to confirmed town. I think from my meta you can tell I am a paranoid person in mafia and after the shit you pulled in KNM I doubt I'll ever trust you explicitly when you are in professor stardust mode, but as of now (pre-reread) you are at the town end of my spectrum due to what seem to be consistent scumhunting efforts.

It's true that you never explicitly said I was confirmed town. However, you did say, "if their is scum between them it is rezombad, no question". That sounds pretty sure for someone who's paranoid.

In other words, I got my eye on you. Following your reread, I expect reasoning for why I'm town. You can also tell me then
why what I'm doing here is not "professor Stardust".

Can we kill Rezombad yet?

Please?

Last time you mentioned rezombad was in this post, a week ago, where you said he might be town. Did you check his meta? What's your reasoning here?

Hmm... That's a lot of words.

After voting for Iso (which is all well and good), he asks slowpoke if he had put the third vote on iso as a joke (it was the fourth), then completely ignores kaze voting iso for no reason, even replying with half-assed support for a name-claim* calls slowpoke overly defensive for responding to a question I asked almost exactly the same as Stardust himself responded.

At this point Kaze is probably town-aligned to me, just because Stardust, my #2 Scumspect has so deliberately avoided more than cursory contact with him.

Oh hey! You're doing that thing again! Where you just recap everything someone has done instead of really thinking about it.

Also, scum tend to avoid contact with their
scum buddies, not with townies, so I'm not sure how you're coming to the conclusion that Kaze is town based on me being scum. Are you buddying?

*'Meta Check' post:
This is why my vote is going to be on Stardust for most of the day probably, the OMGUS and slandering is so hard here I think I have cancer now.

Context is a very huge part of this game, and Stardust very deliberately misuses the context of the quotes in order to slander me.

I have to make a lot of assumptions in order to address this alleged meta check of me because stardust doesn't actually draw any conclusions.

It was a bit rushed, yes. I also didn't want to introduce my own bias since meta is a dangerous thing to work with. Letting people draw their own conclusions is better for stuff like this.

I am assuming that the "familiar looking posts" are to be compared to my first post where I asked CP why when he random voted in his first post.
I explained earlier that I would have asked the question regardless of who CP placed his vote for, because naked RVS votes are scummy to me. I did it in boondocks, and the games that I have seen it in have had scum doing it.
That said, I was going to pressure him more but after Iso did his thing (that has since been edited by a mod or admin, which I wholly disapprove of, especially if someone were to replace in and not see the original post) I wanted to put some pressure over to Iso and see who was quick to wagon.

What you did in Boondocks is completely different than what Cursed Pride did here. You didn't say before that your issue was with naked votes, you said it was with random votes. Anyway, how is
Pride's vote any more naked than the Captain's vote?

(Also, I don't think Iso's post was edited. Something in the site's code was changed, making Iso's tags suddenly work.)

The first quoted post is my 6th post in any mafia game ever and I wanted to understand why I was being voted.
The second, Yanni came out of nowhere saying he'd be willing to lynch me, it was fitting to ask if there was a case against me beyond what had already been established.

Wait a sec. Are you defending your actions in your scum game? I already know why you asked the questions in that game - you were concerned that there was pressure being put on you. Most scum are. My point here is that you didn't do this at all in your town game, and now you're back to doing it here.

I notice a couple gaps in your play in this game too, but that doesn't make you scum to me.
As someone who has a life and a demanding job with very long and sometimes strange hours, I participate as much as I can. It's null at best. And if I weren't in another game (that I just caught up on) I'd say I was flavorgaming.

Yep, could be true. Or could be that you find it harder to post as scum, so you don't find the time. I've seen it before. It's definitely not null when there's a pattern of behaviour.

Funny that you try to flip this back on me. I guess it's lucky that I'm active and engaged whether I'm town or scum.

What does the bolded mean?

-- "But I don't want to try
to out-Iso Iso" doesn't really make sense coming from a townie. rezombad never showed this uncertainty in Bioshock.
Iso wasn't in bioshock, and I dont think what I did was uncertain at all so again we have Stardust deliberately misinterpreting the situation.
I didn't know what was happening so I grabbed the bull by the horns and pushed my own scumhunting agenda.

"I don't think" therefore "Stardust deliberately misinterpreted" doesn't flow. You're reaching.

My problem is not that you voted Iso. I agree that you grabbed the bull by its horns - that was a good thing. The bad thing came later when you started saying it might have been scummy, it might not have been scummy, but maybe we should leave Iso alone now because I'm not looking for a fight. That's how I read that post.

[quote="rezombad » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:46 pm":
3c04pp4q]"-- "Sure" was a sticking point in Boondocks for a time."
This is the big one for me. The sure from this game was in response to a question I asked myself "Was my vote on Iso serious? Sure, I knew Iso was up to something, and I don't know what." The sure that he's referencing and quoting at the end of his post was Manders me responding "Sure?" to Manders asking who wanted to do a name claim.
So we see Stardust twisting context to make connections that don't really exist. Theres a big difference between using sure as a synonym for 'yes.' and 'yes?'. Manders did push me on the 'Sure?', because it was uncertain and weak and half assed. My 'sure' this game is none of those things, I was using it as a synonym for yes.[/quote]
Sure is never a synonym for yes. It's weak language. You're right that this situation is different, but it's just as noncommital.

-- "Do you honestly think your posts have been pro town?" is a really weak language choice.
-- More of the same.
It seems weak but it was actually in reference to the 'supplemental reading' that kaze linked that you apparently missed in your reread.

What does an external source have to do with you talking to Kaze? If he's scum, you call him scum, not "not pro town".

@Stardust Who is your third scum suspect?

Things have been shifting a bit, so I'd have to rethink to make sure this is the right answer, but I'm liking a Slowpoke, Captain, rezombad scum team at the moment. The rezombad/Slowpoke pairing makes a lot of sense given Slowpoke's jump onto Iso following what he thought was a scum slip you caught.
n
Sorry about your colon and your cancer, by the way.

I liked stardust's case on slowpoke a lot and I think he is my most confirmed townie so far...

This is concerning me. You played with me in KNM. You know I'm capable of putting forward a good case as scum. Why do you think I'm town?

Okay, meta check. Read through Boondocks (where rezombad was scum). The spoilered posts above looked pretty familiar. He also ducked out for days at a time in that game, making quite a few promises to catch-up. He's done that this game a couple times too.

Read through Bioshock (where rezombad was town). Felt like a very different poster. Much more engaged and much more certainty in his language (even going so far as to refer to imopen as "scum" in place of his name for a time). Never disappeared for days at a time. He did vote with little supporting reasoning a few times, so that's consistent.

Lastly, I read through this game. On the reread, a lot of rezombad's language is that same uncertain tone that I saw in Boondocks.

"I actually have no idea if
what Iso did is scummy, but I'm sure he did it on purpose (i.e. kaze's newbie mafia), what reactions he was looking for, I have no idea. But I don't want to try to out-Iso Iso, and I got some good reads off of it."
-- "But I don't want to try to out-Iso Iso" doesn't really make sense coming from a townie. rezombad never showed this uncertainty in Bioshock.

"Was my vote on Iso serious? Sure, I knew Iso was up to something, and I don't know what. Could it be scummy? Sure, and I don't want to take Iso's word for whatever it is he was planning to do."
-- "Sure" was a sticking point in Boondocks for a time.

"Do you honestly think your posts have been pro town? As far as I can tell, you havn't been scumhunting or attempting to gather information for the town and even admitted as such earlier."
-- "Do you honestly think your posts have been pro town?" is a really weak language choice.

"I phrased that incorrectly. He voted without
adding or intending to add anything. Which is not pro-town."
-- More of the same.

I guess I should dig in Boondocks to find similar posts. Okay, good enough. Someone check my work, please. I've been blinded by OMGUS before. His latest response to my questions is weird enough, and far enough from his previous town play, that I'm feeling pretty confident that rezombad is scum.
rezombad's Boondocks posts.
rezombad's Bioshock posts.

There are obvious reasons for those RVS votes.

"#swag" is an obvious reason? "/in before stardust" is an obvious reason? It's called the random voting stage. People vote at random.

I didn't notice that you don't find votes with no explanation scummy.
unvote
vote: stardust

I don't even know what this means. Going to Boondocks now to check your reaction to pressure there. This is weird.

Also, in that case, why didn't you question Captain Murphy or imopen, both of whom had no reasoning attached to their RVS votes?

Why?

rezombad. Didn't like his first post questioning someone's RVS vote on him. Self-conscious.

So, I should just ignore anything that I think is scummy if it's directed at me because that would be self-conscious and therefore scummy?

Uh, no, of course not. What was scummy about this post?

In the meanwhile I'd like to hear your takes on those two guys, if you don't mind.

Void and rezombad? Sure. Glad to see you getting involved, by the way. You're lacking a lot of reads, but I like your thought process on most others.

rezombad. Didn't like his first post questioning someone's RVS vote on him. Self-conscious. His next two posts were better, except for the "Iso: Does Kaze look scummy to you right now?" question that I asked him about in my catch-up post. Pushed a "speak now" nameclaim which is easily the most detrimental way to do this as town. These two [url=http://diestoremoval.com/
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1895&p=131653#p131653]posts[/url] feel like town rezombad. His pushing of the Kaze wagon could go either way. I need him to get more involved (partially to decide what his motivation was for not being involved), but he's pretty close to null at the moment.

Void. Vote parks CM with his first vote. Fairly legit reasoning, but doesn't follow through. Defends Iso, but has a null read. Fairly legit reasoning for his vote on TubeHunter, with a townie thought process for clearing imopen2 and Slowpoke. I've played with Void a couple of times. We were always town together, so I don't have a read on his scum game. He's not posting nearly as much as he normally does, but that's likely due to the different site. Overall, leaning town.

Void! You said your vote on the Captain wasn't moving. Is he still scum?

I don't want to have to re-read Pride to double check things. I like it when my reads are
solid.

It probably is. I'd give Pride a 90% chance of being town. Just cautioning you against making the same mistake you did before.

I skimmed Red's T/S list. Someone tell me about it. I'm tired.

Lots of null reads. A few new reads. Plenty of original content which shows he actually put his own work into it. I like it, overall. The only person he really fence-sat on was imopen.

Okay Red, time to give us some content. You're pushing other people to contribute when you've given next to nothing yourself. I was happy to give you a Day 1 pass until now, but I think you'd better throw down a town/scum list with some general thoughts at least. If half the players are null because you have no read, that's fine, just do something yourself before pushing others for doing the same.

Oh, I forgot that. @ KN

Why the ?

Wow, actually, a lot of his post is the post I'm making now. I feel slightly violated. But this guy is definitely town.

Just sayin', this sounds very similar to what you were saying about me in KNM. Just because someone agrees with you (or you agree with someone) doesn't make them town.

KN...KN...not ringing a bell. Which game was that? And no, I'm not saying "agreement = town", I'm saying "when this guy is posting what I'm about to post, and it's a wallpost, he's pretty obviously town".

Kaze's
Newbie Mafia. In which I was scum. And you had the exact same reaction when I posted what you were about to post (several times).

On the massclaim post, what about the formatting? Bold blue was just a random choice, or was there some intent there?

What didn't you like about Iso's posts?

Also, if your vote on him was nothing more than random, then what trap were you laying for imopen later? You'd already made it pretty clear that you considered your vote without reason. If that's the case, then where's the trap?


Mod! Vote that Checkbox replace Slowpoke in-game. It'll make things easier for everyone.

Iso, you said we could deal with it Day 2, but I'd like you to go into it now. What do you think of TubeHunter?

Iso, so we can put this to bed, what was your thought process with this post? What were you hoping for here?

Vote Wheat

We should have a mass alignment claim.

I'll go first.

I'm Town.

Popcorn to Murphy.