Dies to Removal

Oui oui.

100% killed by vig rate though.

0-3

It didn't.

Also, always kill Iso.

You made good points towards the end Red, but you need to start playing earlier.

I have come to eat crow.

And to boast for being vig'd in every game I have played so far.

This is how he played as scum in DTR FWIW.

Implying nothing. You actively lurked throughout the final days of Day 1.

Hamfactorial in hardcore lurk mode too.

Huh? I am voting Pie. I am confused, I think we should vote Pie.

^^ Agreed with Murphy on this one.

@Zem:
What were your original thoughts prior to asking that question about Iso?

Lean Town with much caution.

Remember to look at wraith posts.

Vote inflatablepie

Iso cannot be killed this Night.

What do we make of this? I am not an experienced player, but this suggests to me that Iso is Town.

Tubehunter and Hamfactorial were curiously absent the last few days. Nihilist of course continues his spree of uselessness.

Regardless of the flip, scum shortlist:

InflatiblePie
Hamfactorial
Tubehunter
Rednihilist

The flip will affect whom I think is most likely scum of course.

If Suga is Town lynch Pie.

If Suga is Scum lynch Ham.

If Suga is Town he should be ashamed of his play.

Cool, we're in about the same place then.

Thoughts on anyone else imopen2?

You're all fucking dumb. Look good and hard at Zem and Cap.

But not Ham, who you're meant to be building a case on right? You're voting him remember

Ham is in full lurk mode.

I feel confidant that Suga and Ham are scum. Happy to lynch either to move the game forward. Other suspects:
- Tubehunter (mod, prod please)
- Rednihilist
- Imopen2

Everytime I play with Suga it ends up like this.
Let me read things.

Tell us more.

@ Red: never played with Suga before, so that insight is good. How about the rest of his posting? Similar or dissimilar? For me to not think he is scum, I would need to believe he is Town with no interest at all in helping Town. His behaviour hasn't been to help Town at all, thoughts?

You're reading but still posting useless filler. When you finish reading its time to help Town for once.

As for why don't I lynch you I still might. Your firmly I'm my scum pile but you're less scummy than Suga. You'll know when you actually read the thread.

If you're Town you certainly don't play to help Town.

You are scummy. Still no actual contribution and instead of looking for scum you're concerned for you're own image (that's scummy FYI).

Red no more stalling.

Are you willing to lynch Suga?
Reads list.
Now.

Please let us know whether or not you'd be willing to lynch Suga after your read through, in addition to any other insights you have.

Nihilist please respond to Iso ASAP

I was also the first person to vote for you; and had never switched my vote.

Such mafia, very scum, so lynch

Pointing out a scum suspect misrepresenting events makes me scum now? You're really trying hard to be officially recognised as the worst
mafia player in here aren't you?

Time for you to go to work; present your case against me. I'm. Not in the mood for you to spoil another game with your mindless tunnelling.

When was the last time this happened? How often would you say zombad does this? Does he do it strictly as town, or as scum, too?

It happened in DTR mafia when he ended up day killing me Day 1 (I was Town Doctor) when most players had me in their Town pile. I've only played with Rez as Town and it has only happened once.

No experience with Void or Iso; they'll be fun to tackle at some point.

Why do you say this?

For reference, I have over 100 completed games of forum Mafia, if that's relevant to you, at all.

To explain why you're in my null pile. I don't want to leap
to conclusions about such experienced players, that's an easy way for me to get burned. You do feel VERY Town this game, right now. Your analysis is very committal, so you're really laying your own credibility as Town on the line - that leads me to think you're Town since I don't think scum losing Iso is worth generating a single mislynch. So I'll move you to my Town pile.

Fucking lynch Wraith already. There is nothing he can do to excuse the behavior he has shown us.

For those who unvoted Wraith. Please give your reasoning on why.

/barn

-

ham's #241 is swimming with scummy language and I don't feel like he actually comes to any conclusions with it. I will happily lynch ham if Wraith isn't the lynch for some ungodly reason.

I read Wraith as been more likely frustrated Town than
scum. Honestly, I just really don't want to start the game with a mislynch. You're notes on him we're pretty convincing. I would be open to lynching him, today even, but I think Suga or Ham are better targets (more likely to be scum).

FWIW I feel that Ham's style of posting here is consistent with his scum game from DTR Mafia. I called him as scum early there and I get the same feel from him in this game.

I do like the votecount analysis and was going to provide one of my own if someone didn't touch on it. Wraith has been sitting very close to lynch range for far too long with no action against him to be town. The scum don't want to lose their Roleblocker and that's why they're not hammering. WitchHunt, z, Suga, and redcoloredwizard are all not voting at the time of Stardust's votecount in #271. IGMEOY. All of you. Especially z.

Actually, that's another point in favor of scumham - z prodding ham (one of my scum reads) to provide content [so as to not let him get caught].[/
quote]

I prod Ham because I feel the strongest indicator of his scum game is that he posts to look active but fence sits and provides no content. The prod to force him to post locks him into the style of behaviour; so its an easy test of his alignment I think.

Can someone else unvote Wraith please? He isn't worth lynching. I detest the idea of killing Town for policy reasons. We'll benefit from having time to look back through what has happened so far, and if we still have nothing in a few days then we can reconsider all options. But I have come to believe that Wraith is Town and that we shouldn't lynch him.

We're not policy lynching him, we're lynching him for being scum. Given that you're not even voting at the time of this post, this looks awful for you if Wraith flips scum.

-

Red
could you fence-sit any harder with that reads post

Why didn't you want to say anything about imopen before rcw? Afraid to put your opinion out there in case you have to vote imopen after rcw's case?

Asking to learn: why does asking for an unvote look bad for me? I just don't want to start with a mislynch. Is that too apprehensive?

Tell me Z, now that Wraith is not playing with us anymore, where you still butthurt at him for something that happened into previous games?
Is that why you started by putting pressure on him, then just let the game drift away?

You clearly haven't read the thread.

I RVS'd him for a laugh,
fully expecting a response with a crazy theory, which I got. I left my vote on him and then things went crazy. I certainly questioned him enough to feel that he was frustrated Town.

I have no reason to be "butthurt" about a previous game with Wraith.

If you're interested in raspy and imopen, I look forward to seeing you do something.

I'm unimpressed by absolutely everything I've seen you post so far that isn't ragging on Red/Wraith. And even some of that is making me go ":isthatso:".

-

jesus christ I feel like I'm reading the same shit over and over and only 1% of it isn't spam

I am still learning. Very open to feedback; I really like playing mafia and would love to get better.

Unvote rcwraspy, vote DroppinSuga

n
Holy shit, this is your first actually good post.

Got to start some time.

Town
1. zemanjaski
7. Captain Murphy
11. rezombad
12. rcwraspy
6. InflatablePie (r. Wraith223)

Null
10. WitchHunt
13. Iso
8. Void
3. imopen2

Scum
5. RedNihilist
9. hamfactorial
2. TubeHunter
4. DroppinSuga

To do list:
- answer raspy's questions
- read rednihilist's linked game
- bully lurkers
- bait rezombad

Might not get through all of that today, or in that order.

Why am I null? Simply because I haven't posted much over the past week?

That and unfamiliarity with you and your style. Your reputation proceeds you, I just want to be cautious.

We should chat after the game Iso, I have much to learn (3rd game here). I'll address your comments to me in my next post, but for vision clarity, I will now extend my "willing to lynch pile" to:
- droppinSuga
- hamfactorial
- pie

In that order. Is there a reason not to lynch Suga first? If he flips scum, then ham is pretty much locked in as scum (he already looks very likely scum anyway). Thoughts?

Iso why are people scared of you? You don't seem so tough. Ill take ya.

WitchHunt would you support any lynches currently?

Yeah Ham's probably scum too.

Suga is at L-2. If Pie actually follows me we need 1 more.

Pie vote Suga.

I may/may be wearing fox ears Rez.

We're getting content from Iso and Rezombad today. Maybe Void too; will advise tomorrow after I've had time to think.

Dammit, ragging on Rez is so endearing.

Suga

How do you know there is scum on your train?

Why do you feel that no one else is after you when Rez has said that he supports your lynch and will case you today?

<- @office.
Seriously, you can't expect anything more than one-liners, at the moment.

Instead of pushing me you could just read my other game(s) and discover by yourself I'm town as usual.
I'd like to hear your opinion on raspy and imopen, if you've got free time.

On re-read, I don't like this post as all. That sort of self assured cleverness is out of character with his previous game.

Back to this game:

I'm actually ok with a lynch on rcw, I haven't liked his play in this game but I wasn't sure if it was me being jaded from DTR.

This was an extremely scum statement, made without explanation. Its i keeping with his scum mindset - not committing to anything and trying to avoid attention; but maintaining enough activity so avoid the ire of those who hate lurkers. The thing is, in his mind it would have been such an easy jump "of there goes Zem, leaning on his next person; mentioning approval makes it look like I am taking part"; but he clearly had not read my case and his other posts highlight that he really isn'y paying attention or engaged with the thread.
Which faction can afford to do that? Mafia. Why? They don't need to catch anyone.

To be honest, I've just lost interest in the game with all of the flailing from wraith and it's day one.

Not a Town post.

Actually, it's time to chat Ham. You blatantly say that you see nothing wrong with my posts, yet you vote me anyways? That seems a bit scummy to me. You've also flown under the radar this game.

vote hamfactorial

Ironically describing his own behaviour, here Suga tries to deflect attention on to another player (possibly his scum buddy). Suga won't answer similar questions posed to him (I wonder why? ) but will attempt to extract them from another. You come to discussion with clean hands and an open mind; Suga has neither.

I know there's scum on my train. Zem is a hard read and I think his intentions are pure this game. I feel that Captain and Ham are the strongest candidates. Captain is trying to make a case on me because of my posts which have no hint of scuminess. Ham is sheeping the wagon and I think some pressure on him will give us info that will be useful going forward.

This is again a handwave. No hint of scumminess? You're kidding. Even if the posts had no scum content at all, trying to make and test a case doesn't make Murphy scum - that Suga isn't answering questions and is throwing up his hands to avoid answering - that's scummy behaviour.

Not everyone plays the same way as you. When the game goes 10 pages with everyone shitting on a n00b player who plays different, it is kind of a spirit breaker. The game was super fucking boring for a few days while everyone shit on
Wraith and his flavor gaming. There was nothing to gain from playing the game.

Nah I'm good. You're the only one still on my case.

Don't really care. If I get lynched, so be it. I claimed and you can take it as you will.

[/quote]

Not Town posts. There is no evidence of Suga trying to help Town in a week. Furthermore, note his "no one else is on my case". He's at L-3 I believe, with only raspy unvoting and more than half of the thread yet to catch up. Don't let him tell you not to look into him further; there are still people willing to lynch this scum.

Read through the last few pages and form your own opinion.

However, why not ask him to answer the outstanding questions? If he is Town he should want to do that (more information helps Town after all).

For raspy:

Why are you asking questions I've already answered?

More than one person's been caught answering the same question different ways before. It's always possible again. It's fine if you don't have a read on me, but it does strike me as odd since my experience with you so far is that you develop reads very quickly. So it was worth questioning. It certainly doesn't mean you HAVE to develop quick reads. Just that it's been my observation.

Fine.

- you're basically asking me to clear you.
Sure, it reads as if you're irrelevant which way I go, but it doesn't serve Town to distract me from hunting actual Scum if you're Town; I've not seen you adopt a mindset of forming a Town voting block via POE previously, though it did come up in our last game I suppose; but even then right now it wouldn't be effective, so any such effort is extremelt forced.

Not asking you to clear me at all. Sure, being cleared sounds nice I suppose, but that's also night kill bait right there. No thanks. I'm not trying to distract you from hunting scum. I'm trying to clear YOU! Not sure why that's forced during a stall in which we're the only ones posting.

Fine.

- you've also basically suggested that I should be confident in reading you (this in a game where you're acting pretty Townish previously); so any read I should give is 'Town'. When I explain reasons why I'm unwilling to make a read, you've basically tried to boost my
confidence "you were totally right on day 1, believe in yourself!" To get me to do so. I can't see a Town motivation for doing this. If you're Town, you don't care what conclusions I reach, only that I show a Town-mibdset in my analytical process; that's sufficient for you to start narrowing your field of suspects. Instead your concern seems very much to be with getting clear.

It's an attempt to tease information from you so I can develop my own read on you. You mentioned something about me, I asked you about it to get down to YOUR thought process, not to try to clear myself.

Fine.

- there's no reason to force engagement with me. We've got multiple posters who've promised content soon and I've already expressed an interest with dislike for rednihilist and Hamfactorial. Getting me to make substantive assessment of you is just a distraction. For reasons, explained, that doesn't serve Town.

If it doesn't
serve town, how does it serve scum? How does giving people more to read on BOTH of us not serve town? Sure, others have promised content, but where is it? Should we just sit idle until it comes out (if it ever does)?

I think it is important to hound people who promise and don't deliver. I don't believe in "Lynch all Lurkers", but when someone continues to post content devoid filler to try and fly under the radar, they're worth leaning on. At least in theory - the optimal strategic position as determined by DTR players is to do nothing at all, it would seem. So I can appreciate your frustration.

- trying to make it seem like we successfully caught you in DTR is just bullshit. In that game you told us at the time you were being scummy to fish for info, to exploit your unlynchable miller role to Town advantage. We were never going to put you on unlynchable godfather, so it's an entirely easy situation for you to exploit there; and you're
trying to exploit it now by telling me you're easy to read! What the hell? Thing is, you'd have known in DTR that the lunch would fail and that we'd 99% believe your fake claim, so you could afford to act ultra scummy Day 1 to get Town-cred and then mislead us.

Aside. I have nfi what Suga was thinking.

Me telling you in DTR Mafia that I was purposefully acting scummy was the lie. I wasn't trying to act scummy. You caught me, got me to claim, and lynched me. Then I said I did it all on purpose as a cover up. Sure, easy position for me given how things ended up, but that's not the point. And again, I'm not trying to tell you I'm easy to read. This is what I'm saying:
1. I've observed that Zem develops reads quickly
2. I've posted a lot
3. Zem hasn't developed a read on me yet
4. I wonder why that is

You've got to understand why I cannot trust you. I don't know, and your word means nothing here sorry, whether you did or did not deliberately mislead
me on Day 1 of DTR. So I just cannot trust how I think you play. Maybe you are telling the truth now (and lied in DTR discussion after the game)? Or maybe you're lying now and were telling the truth then? Both scenarios damage your credibility. That's why I feel unable to make a quick read.

RE: Wraith; your logic for defending him seemed incredibly flawed if we don't assume that he's just awful. Getting the role name wrong is awkward, but he didn't state the correct ability; that he doesn't research and basically claimed the only PR he'd seen in his last came are cause for immense suspicion. On balance, I'm concluding that yeah, he's just awful; but the way you made a defence seemed wilfully ignorant or at least dismissive of Wraith as a person and what you would know about him from the last game. It doesn't sit well with me.

I've specifically tried to avoid saying anything about Wraith on a personal level. I don't know him at all, and he seems
like a good guy from the clan thread. Since I'm obviously not seeing the same thing the rest of you are, can you highlight for me (via quote would prob be easiest) where he stated the wrong ability? I didn't see that at all. What I saw was the same thing stated in 2 different ways, both of which could have been taken almost directly from the Mafia Scum wiki's definition of town roleblocker.

So just to deal with this again, my issue with your analysis is that it draws upon the mafia wiki explanation of the role, to explain away wraith's misunderstanding (roleblocker = stop night kills). It certainly does say that. The thing is, wraith has stated many times that he hasn't read the wiki (this is why I referenced knowing him personally; players who haven't played before may not be aware of this; you are as it was a discussion point in DTR). Consequently, wraith's only way to know what the role does is from his role PM, and I (and I suppose the others) just don't think he was given
a role PM that stated his abilities only impact was "to stop night kills", because that simply isn't what the ability does. The secondary issue is that wraith effectively claimed a doctor (as he would understand it), which was the revealed Town role in his only other game. That isn't a big point; but not getting the role name correct (possibly a misremembering of a role from DTR) and getting the ability incorrect as well (very incorrect actually) should arise some suspicion.

Nonetheless, on balance, I came to the same conclusion as you, albeit via different reasoning.

This is what you want right?

Vote rcwraspy

Not what I was after, but whatevs.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I'm not re-reading my posts asking myself "does this sound town" or "what's the town mindset here?" It seems like that's what you're expecting from every post. I'm just posting what I'm thinking as I'm thinking it, and trying
to work with what I've got. Right now all I've got is 11 pages and 1 other active user.[/quote]

We can discuss this after the game, for now I need to keep it under my hat.