Dies to Removal

Best answer to Ojutai is self-inflicted wound as far as sideboard cards go.

Yeah, I agree with most all of that.

That plan seems loose.

Against Esper, to beat there normal game plan and the OJutai BS they throw at you, it's important to get under them and then finish. Ojutai and Thunderbreak are both comparable to Stormbreath dragon against them and stormbreath is NOT good against esper. Regent's better any time it's targeted while ojutai's about the same. Ojutai doesn't cut it for me because the payoff for hitting isn't even that high in mardu. It's not like Esper where you put them in the full nelson as they're locked under your infinite hard counters.

I like the cards I mentioned cause they're all either cheap, hasty, and let you time your interaction. Mardu charm both kills ojutai and is a threat. Secure the wastes can be a bunch of dudes and makes them look silly after cruxing. Champion costs 1 mana and keeps on chugging. Pitiless horde is like brutal hordechief that can't be disdainful stroked at the cost of being vulenerable to all the 2 mana removal but is another great post wrath play.

Executioner strikes me as more of a sideboard card, but also works. Just have to build with it in mind as it's clunky if you have too many creatures.

If you want to beat Esper, try adding any of these cards to your mardu deck:

Bloodsoaked Champion

Pitiless Horde

Secure the Wastes

Mardu Charm

Aggro game one with the M.A.C daddy sideboard plan. Deck is rough and needs to be tuned some but it does powerful things.

[deck]Creatures:
4 Butcher of the Horde
3 Hordeling Outburst
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Crackling Doom
4 Flamewake Phoenix
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4 Lightning Strike
3 Monastery Mentor
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
2 Tormenting Voice
3 Thoughtseize
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands:
4 Nomad Outpost
3 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Triumph
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Mana Confluence

SB
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Stormbreath Dragon
3 End Hostilities
3 Glare of Heresy
2 Read the Bones
2 Wild Slash[/deck]

For the GP, Pardee actually updated his deck to have 4 Hushwyngs. He cut the land from his sideboard to make room then swapped a gryff and a Chandra between main and board.

I'd say mardu's pretty mediocre insofar as positioning in the meta goes.

The RW agro and token decks however are both excellent. Sam Black was 9-2 before punting left and right vs. Heroic Builds and Sam Pardee was running a clinic on people for the most part. I'd attest his loss in top 8 to a bad judgement call in his game 1 loss to Sperling, but overall both versions are phenomenal, almost solely based off of them being 2 color and having such a large tempo advantage against the rest of the format due to clean mana and the most efficient questions and answers.

It's hideous but it harkens back to my previous point; the deck had to fundamentally change to compete with tokens as others cracking doom and changed to the rocks are just aids. He chose doomwake giant and arc trail which serve double duty of fighting jeskai builds and hornet queen.

Current mardu needs to be rebuilt as the current iteration is a dog to tokens and whip decks.

Can't tell if trolling or just stupid.

Nowhere did I say you can't change cards. I merely said the deck as has been played isn't bad-which was your stance.

If you look at the TCG player Championship a month or so back, it was the week after GP LA. Brad had LITTERALLY just top 8'd the tourney, then posted an article with the updated list which would've been better. Something like 5 players top 8'd/won that tournament playing combinations of the old list and the updated list including Melissa De Tora and Andrew Baeckstrom(Open ringer and member of the US national team for the WMCQ this year).

I could give less then a shit about how good or bad your changes to your deck are because I'm not debating that. I'm telling you that you're are BLATANTLY wrong/obtuse for suggesting that stock mardu midrange is bad.

Basically of all the wedge lists, the only stock deck I'd say is bad is Jeskai, and that's because it has like, 8-10 flex slots that drastically changes how the deck plays along with needing an agreeable sideboard to keep up with meta week to week as the cards aren't individually powerful enough to brute force wins.

When you play a deck like mardu, the reason the stock list is great is because of the overall power level of the cards. Same thing with Abzan really. So long as you have something close to a reasonable curve and have time to cast your cards, you can just run away with games by playing hordeling outburst into multiple butchers, playing 3 crackling dooms into Elspeth, or caryatid into triple rhino. When you have absurd cards and a malleable sideboard along with 1/2 mana removal spells and access to thoughtseize, it's sometimes you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

Forgive me if I ignore your post.

Wow I'm sorry. I'm saying something different, is that not ok?

It's not that your saying something different, it's that you're saying nothing of value. What exactly is wrong with the deck?

It's literally been tearing up tournaments from GPs, to opens, to 50ks. It's powerful and flexible along with being the best Sorin deck. I'd also argue that the sideboard is great, if only because it gives you a massive edge in boarding against the field since you can morph your deck radically and punish your opposition for bringing in the wrong answers.

Sure, you can change the deck however you like(a friend of mine plays a different mardu list every week at the local shop and is one of the best unkown player on the west coast), but the stock list as is has put up dozens of results from elite players and that success has been replicated by randos.

The man actually plays Esper control in every format.

I don't know how you can come to that conclusion.

Realistically, the only awkward decision was cutting a cheap removal spell from the main for an utter end, and even that's fine since most of the decks are getting even more midrangy.

You can look at the Gryffs in his board kinda askance, but they make a fine substitute for rabble in certain matchups and are gonna be more likely to induce blowouts since it's a card not commonly seen out of mardu.

He's playing literally 72/75 of everyone elses mardu deck because there's so little variation in the archetype.

Did you ever test Liliana LD?

And no, I'm not making suggestions for changing your deck. Lists looks solid down to the random ass harness by force.

Roc>Dragon for every reason I've already said. Sarkhan>both for every reason I've already said.

How the fuck is stormbreath unanswerable for Jeskai? Stoke kills it outright. It's counterable. Sarkhan kills it outright. 2 burn spells kill it. These are all game 1 options. A full 9 cards in my maindeck answer dragon cleanly.

Sarkhan on the other hand must be attacked or he's at least a 2-for-1.

Vomit.

Idk, I keep a lot more borderline hands then most people.

Postboard, I'm much less inclined to keep 2 landers though because your curve tends to go up quite a bit.

Read the bones is for helping you hit land drops since your curve goes up post board.

A friend of mine played Brad's list tonight to 3-1. I played a slightly different deck with mardu charm and raise the alarm over hoard and chained to the rocks.

Charm is fucking terrible, alarm is fine, but overall, brads list is where it's at.

Given what I know, I'd cut 1 read the bones for Lily(since she is great) and I'd probably hedge an anger of the gods to magma spray. On the draw, anger can be too slow so having cheaper interaction is likely great.

Hordeling + Sorin steals games. I would love to read what Brad has to say with regards to the latest iteration of his deck.

The Long short of it is that the deck was basically thrown together last minute.

He said Roc felt win more, but Sarkhan was amazing so he made that swap. While not directly stated, it's implied that he wanted more of a tempo edge, so that's why there's a murderous cut added.

Mostly though, it's a giant sideboard guide with tips and tricks thrown in about playing around obvious cards.

I'd assume it's more for having early interaction on the draw.

4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Seeker of the Way
Planeswalkers (6)

1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Lands (25)

6 Mountain
1 Swamp
3 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Caves of Koilos
4 Nomad Outpost
2 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Triumph
Spells (18)

3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Crackling Doom
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
1 Murderous Cut
4 Hordeling Outburst
Sideboard

2 Utter End
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Anger of the Gods
2 End Hostilities
2 Glare of Heresy
3 Read the Bones

Haven't even checked SCG today. I'll update in a sec.

I've been a great help *runs into the night*

Roc is one of the defining cards of standard. I wouldn't be surprised if Jeskai Decks eventually start playing Rocs.

Like, it's a lifegaining 2-for-1. It's the most snowbally card around. Someone made a shitty comparison of Sarkhan vs. Roc. Sarkhan can attack through rocs. Cool. Rocs can attack and kill sarkhan. Or, you have the situations where sarkhan kills half of the card leaving the bird token behind to clean up. Get fucking real people.

Here's a more constructive argument:

Do you know what the principal of Brad and Valenti's deck is? It's mostly built around tempo leads and CA. All the threats minus Butcher are either super cheap(seeker) or can generate some form of CA across multiple bodies. If you play with or against jeskai, you learn that in most spots, it's better to skip your turn, then play a 3 into removal.

When you play, horedling outburst into there jet mana, they fall VERY far behind. When they have downfall at the ready and you play Sorin making a bat or have sarkahn kill there courser, you've gained more CA. Roc is an extension of this that also trumps some of the best cards out of those other decks. While both are affective vs. Elspeth out of junk and mantis rider out of Jeskai, Stormbreath can be answered 1-for-1 sometimes at a tempo loss, whereas Roc still lives a buddy behind and sometimes even prevents them from profitably playing there Elspeth.

This also ties into why you guys are high for thinking Stormbreath is better then Sarkhan in decks like these. Flexibility is more important because it plays into your gameplan. When you build your deck the way Brad's list is, Sarkhan becomes just a vastly superior card.

The only card in the deck that doesn't leave bro's behind is Butcher and that card both has haste half the time, and can simply win the game on it's own by being so fucking fat. The deck wanted some amount of Raw power cards, and Butcher gets the nod for being the cheapest option that also has synergy with the 3-drops.

Lastly, I'll say I WOULD rather have more Sarkhan's then rocs, but I'd definitely take Roc over Dragon.

Why is everyone trying to cut sarkhan? I get that it dies to shit, but do none of you know that the card is also a removal spell? Having a flame tongue kavu is so absurdly powerful.

Outright killing everything less then 3 mana and being able to kill rhino's that chump blocked goblin tokens pushes sarkhan way over the top of stormbreath. Having the option to 2-for-1 your opponent when you know they have downfall is something stormbreath just can't do.

Oh, and Stoke the flames. Watching stormbreath get killed by stoke is a massive loss of tempo, while sarkhan never has to deal with that.

This is the new shit:

[deck] New Aristocrats[/deck]

18 3-drops?

Vomit.

You can basically ignore the sideboard and use your own.

If I redid it, I'd probably keep magma spray and brimaz, while adding purphoros, murderous cut, maybe dictate of erebos and IDK from there.

[deck]Spells:

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Crackling Doom
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4 Lightning Strike
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Seeker of the Way
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Hall of Triumph
4 Mardu Charm
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Dictate of Heliod

Lands:
3 Temple of Triumph
2 Nomad Outpost
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Battlefield Forge
3 Temple of Silence

SB:
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Arc Lightning
1 Read the Bones
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Magma Spray
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Despise[/deck]

Sideboards not real and just a pile of cards. This deck is good because Anthems are really good in this set and the token makers are a combination of versatile and have synergy with all the cards in the deck. They protect walkers, get aggressive sorin and anthems, give value to the demon, and trigger seeker of the way.

At the GPT my friend won with his more midrangey walker heavy mardu deck but he noted that thoughtseize was terrible and he played the token pseudo mirror and felt very disadvantaged winning only to getting lucky. We toke some ideas from that deck, added hall, spear, and dictate and cut the disruption package and champion, and here we are. Deck seems very strong and with raise the alarm, the curve is MUCH better.

If you really want my opinion, I'd try a build with champion, seeker, demon, rabbles, and walkers+removal/thoughtseize.

Best removal is downfall, doom, and burn.

Not sure. After playing one mirror match, I'm not as excited because that shit was way to hard to play and I couldn't take the headache.

Seems real bad without more ways to abuse it. Synergy with rabblemaster isn't exactly good, Butcher synergy is fine, sorin synergy is actually good, but I'd want 1 or 2 more little interactions to get value from before I put outburst in my Mardu deck.