Dies to Removal

Cool setup, many thanks to Stardust

I was going to investigate the neutral role on night 2, but I got hosed when Red protected Pie from the lynch and everyone killed me in response. I suspected the SK was in the mafia, because an 8-4-1 setup seemed extremely unbalanced, but needed another chance to dig.

Luckily Iso saved the day with his big brain.

so drama
much intrigue
wow

Haters gonna hate

Vote InflatablePie because YOLO

Implying implications

That's just how mafZa rolls.

CM:

This is my 3rd game.

Actually, it's time to chat Ham. You blatantly say that you see nothing wrong with my posts, yet you vote me anyways? That seems a bit scummy to me. You've also flown under the radar this game.

vote hamfactorial

Wraith sat at L-1 for a day, I don't think you're at any real risk of scum quicklynching you. I wanted to get some activity from you after reading raspy and CM's arguments for why you could be scum.

Hmm, somehow I missed that bit at the end of suga's post about how he was scum.

Unvote

Vote: Suga

Where is the damning part of his last post? I don't see him saying he's scum, only that he's comfortable with lynching raspy. I ISO'd him and found that he's mostly posted some early game chaff, posted in solidarity with Wraith/
Pie at L-1, and then sheeped Z w/r/t raspy.

holy shit unvote, vote droppin

Again, what are you seeing that I'm not?

Suga's ISO link for the curious.

Try and find some content or real scum hunting in his posts

I couldn't find anything worthwhile, but you seemed to see something else that wasn't apparent to me.

Vote DroppinSuga

Why do you feel comfortable putting him to L-2 if you can't find anything worth voting him for on you own?

As stated above, if Suga is town I don't think he's in immediate danger. I asked for clarification from you and CM about what you found
scummy in Suga's last post, since I didn't see it. You explained what you saw in his reaction to you and Z half-heartedly going at it, then I looked through Suga's post history in this thread (on CM's suggestion) and then it made more sense.

When I started playing mafia I thought it would be easy to spot scummy players, but that doesn't happen. It's all too subtle for that. If I saw something screaming "LOL I R TEH SCUM " in Suga's posting, I would have pointed at it.

That's a pretty sweet ability, when can you use it?

Hmm, somehow I missed that bit at the end of suga's post about how he was scum.

Unvote

Vote: Suga

Where is the damning part of his last post? I don't see him saying he's scum, only that he's comfortable with lynching raspy. I ISO'd him and found that he's mostly
posted some early game chaff, posted in solidarity with Wraith/Pie at L-1, and then sheeped Z w/r/t raspy.

holy shit unvote, vote droppin

Again, what are you seeing that I'm not?

Suga's ISO link for the curious.

Try and find some content or real scum hunting in his posts

I couldn't find anything worthwhile, but you seemed to see something else that wasn't apparent to me.

Vote DroppinSuga

Hmm, somehow I missed that bit at the end of suga's post about how he was scum.

Unvote

Vote: Suga

Where is the damning part of his last post? I don't see him saying he's scum, only that he's comfortable with lynching raspy. I ISO'd him and found that he's mostly posted some early game chaff, posted in solidarity with Wraith/Pie at L-1, and then sheeped Z w/r/t raspy.

holy shit unvote, vote droppin[/
quote]

Again, what are you seeing that I'm not?

Suga's ISO link for the curious.

Unvote

Going to read back the last two pages. I didn't see anything weird about Suga's post while skimming from my phone last night.

"tl;dr I'm not a great card analyst. "

Why do we have a sensor for "I'm no.t a great card analyst"

You can thank Alex for this piece of censor gold.

Witch:

I didn't catch that on my first read-through of the thread, only that he called himself a roleblocker, then a rolestopper. I forgave that because I know he posts from his iPad, but it distracted me from the completely different descriptions of his abilities.

Raspy:

There's no safe lynch day 1 because it's all conjecture, but I can't ignore the role screwup.

Vote Wraith

pedit: nice analysis of the wagon, will re-read after post.

Red:

I sometimes forget that you're European, since you speak write more skillfully than many Americans.

I'm going to do a read-through of the infrequent posters (Void, Witchhunt) and see if anything sticks out. Did you notice anything remarkable from their posts?

Ham in your mouth is simply a dream come true

Yup, here at lunch like I said I would be.

Everyone is having a good time in forum 13

TEXT WALL INCOMING

I want to address the imopen vs. raspy exchange, so I went back to page 5 and looked at the sequence of events.

For reference, the official votecount at the time -

Official Votecount!

rezombad (Ephara) (1): RedNihilist
zemanjaski (Iroas) (1): rezombad
Wraith223 (Heliod) (5): TubeHunter, Iso, Void, DroppinSuga, Captain Murphy (L-2)
RedNihilist (Athreos) (1): imopen2
Iso (Thassa) (1): Wraith223

Not voting: hamfactorial, rcwraspy, WitchHunt, zemanjaski
n
With 13 alive, it is 7 to lynch.

Then a few posts by Wraith and then raspy comes in with this -

I liked some of Wraith's responses to Iso when he actually attempted to pick apart the case, but now he's just flailing with flavor gaming stuff again - after we all explained why he shouldn't.

And upon a re-read, the responses I liked were primarily about why he wants people to pay attention to Ham and Suga's interactions, not necessarily about himself.

Vote: Wraith223

I think that means L-1.

Raspy begins by giving Wraith some credit for attempting to pick apart Iso's case on him, but then reverses course based on a perceived notion that Wraith's responses are trying to deflect attention from him and onto me and Suga.

Then, imopen comes in with this -

[
quote="imopen2 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:50 am"]Not sure what you mean, wraith (re: erebos), and I don't have time right now to figure it out.

If you want to convince people you are town you should start by answering the questions that iso posed to you.

Hammering you is tempting but you are probably more useful for analysis later if you stay alive a bit longer.[/quote]

This is the one that made raspy's ears perk up. At the time, there were 6 votes on Wraith (L-1). I'll come back to the statement about Wraith discussing Erebos.

This reads like imopen suspecting Wraith of being scum, but not doing a very good job at it. Wraith posts a lot and, if under duress, could slip something useful.

Then raspy comes back, addressing imopen directly -

Hammering you is tempting but you are probably more useful for analysis later if you stay alive a bit longer.

What information would you hope to get later if you agree the game he's playing isn't Mafia?

As we've observed, Wraith gets emotional when he has pressure on him and starts doing a lot of things (switching votes, throwing out theories, threatening to stop playing Mafia if he's lynched).

If Wraith is scum, letting him sweat at L-1 for a while seems like a great town play. Who knows what kind of nuggets he'll trickle out?

I need to solve how the crime occured in relation to the chractors present.

This game that you're trying to play isn't mafia

This has been evident for some time now

Hammering you is
tempting but you are probably more useful for analysis later if you stay alive a bit longer.

What information would you hope to get later if you agree the game he's playing isn't Mafia?

What information do you hope to gain from lynching him before he's even responded to the questions people have posed to him? Your desperation is showing

I don't like the hand-waiving, but he seems to have the same thought process about Wraith.

[quote=&
quot;rcwraspy » Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:34 pm"]

I need to solve how the crime occured in relation to the chractors present.

This game that you're trying to play isn't mafia

This has been evident for some time now

Hammering you is tempting but you are probably more useful for analysis later if you stay alive a bit longer.

What information
would you hope to get later if you agree the game he's playing isn't Mafia?

What information do you hope to gain from lynching him before he's even responded to the questions people have posed to him? Your desperation is showing

What desperation? You mean wanting to hammer but stopping because it looks scummy?

Oh wait, that was you.

I'm not trying to get you to hammer Wraith. I'm trying to get you to answer my question. The fact that you didn't but instead chose to go the OMGUS route tells me a lot.

unvote
vote imopen2

To answer your question - even if Wraith is town at least it gives us reads on how others interacted with him and helps process of elimination. But he's sticking to flavor gaming, which seems like it's scumWraith's only way of interacting and not lurking. Wraith hates lurkers, so scumWraith won't want to appear to lurk.[/quote]

Here raspy turns the focus back to imopen, answers the question
imopen gave him, and puts on some pressure with a vote. Raspy is right about Wraith hating lurkers, and at some point during this exchange Wraith had changed his vote to Captain Murphy to get him out of hiding. The bit about scumWraith seems random. I'm not sure which of the logical fallacies he employs there, since I never joined the debate team, but No True Scotsman comes to mind first.

Rcw: I feel I did answer your question. We can gain the information he provides us by way of his answers to questions he has yet answerd, for starters. Also his interactions with others should prove useful.

Do you think the fact that he is playing a different game is scum motivated? We're you suggesting a policy lynch? Please explain why his style means he should be
lynched.

Imopen responds by asserting that he did answer raspy's question (in typical hand-waive style), then counters to see what raspy thinks of policy lynching Wraith.

To be fair, I'm not sure what to think about policy lynches yet, since I haven't seen any in the 2 games I've played.

Rcw: I feel I did answer your question. We can gain the information he provides us by way of his answers to questions he has yet answerd, for starters. Also his interactions with others should prove useful.

Do you think the fact that he is playing a different game is scum motivated? We're you suggesting a policy lynch? Please explain why his style means he should be lynched.[/
quote]
Well, I've since taken my vote off him.

No, not advocating a policy lynch at all. His meta shows that he approaches it differently, and in general that's not a bad thing.

But in this situation, he's sticking to flavor gaming despite just about everybody explaining why that's completely useless. As I said, he hates lurkers so this is either him posting anything he can think of in order to not lurk (as scum) or he legitimately believes this is a good approach to the game (as town). That means he's scum at worst or useless town at best (don't intend to be offensive, but it needs to be said).

Imopen, what do you make of his insistence to flavor game?

Raspy's response here explains his frustration with Wraith much better than the previous batch. Particularly "he's sticking to flavor gaming despite just about everybody explaining why that's completely useless". I agree with him. In Ragnarok Mafia, flavor gaming lead to a quick scum win after Tube
killed one of his neighbors (Z) and everyone assumed that I was scum after Z flipped town. Any incidental flavor in that game (Iso's) was purely accidental, as he stated in the post-game wrap up posts.

I just don't think he understands the game since he insists on being ignorant to the mafiascum wiki and he seems like a generally weird dude. He has done some scummy things and I don't think he is going to be very helpful in finding scum but I'm not a fan of lynching bad town.

He needs to understand that, despite the names of the characters being public knowledge, there is absolutely no way that Stardust would make a game that could be broken based on flavor alone. That is a pointless road to go down and it is dangerous for the town.

Yes indeed.

unvote

The whole exchange reads like a frustrated townie (raspy) looking for information. He states that scum would be hesitant to drop the hammer on Wraith, and uses the first person who mentions hammering to probe for scum.

Raspy is in my town pile now.

#Flavor: Have you considered the fact that probably Mogis isn-t dead at all, and can be the real culprit?
Anyway, I fail to understand how that could help...

While reading through imopen vs. raspy, I saw this little gem from Red. In the middle of everyone laughing at Wraith for flavor gaming, why does he feel the need to egg him on with another flavor read?

I'm heading in to work, but will have some time at lunch (4 hours from now)
to catch back up.

That's more effort than he has put into two previous games as one post.

This is a terrible post.

I did a read-through of the thread again, laughed about the Wraith flailing, but mostly was intrigued by Captain Murphy's random drive-by of Wraith. His post history in this thread shows only 2 posts while I'm writing this.

I isolated every post mentioning him with this search string, but all I see are vote counts, Wraith mentioning him drive-by voting and then Raspy talking about being the L-1 vote (CM was the L-2 vote).

I can't do anything with this, but I figured out that he's either 6 hours behind me (subtracted the time stamps in his signature from the ones that I get
when going to those posts) or he has his timezone set wrong in his profile. 6 hours early puts him in Western Europe, so dude should be getting home from work in a few hours while I'm asleep.

It's almost dinnertime so I'll look at the imopen / raspy exchange tomorrow morning with fresh eyes.

pedit: yup, got me

No idea if it's any good, but I find it useful for sniffing out alignment. Observe that only townies get mad at me for doing this.

I don't mind, prod away. I'll have time tomorrow morning, I'll go through both of those questions.

I'm at work, all I can do is be snarky right now. What do you need from me?

Alternatively, I can role play Kait and say that all of your posts are terrible.

He had this same sort of posting style in DTR Mafia. I don't think he's scum, he just has a hair trigger when it comes to voting for people.

He also stated in the previous game that he's avoiding the mafiascum wiki so he can figure out reads and tells himself. If he'd read, he would know that counter-voting Tube would look like panicky OMGUS.

I made the mistake of reading too much into flavor in Ragnarok mafia because of how little else I had to go on. Sounds like he is, too, hence that left field bit about Mogis and the sword.

Please don't reference ongoing games.

Please don't reference completed games as if they were ongoing.

He had this same sort of posting style in DTR Mafia. I don't think he's scum, he just has a hair trigger when it comes to voting for people.

He also stated in the previous game that he's avoiding the mafiascum wiki so he can figure out reads and tells himself. If he'd read, he would know that counter-voting Tube would look like panicky OMGUS.

I made the mistake of reading too much into flavor in Ragnarok mafia because of how little else I had to go on. Sounds like he is, too, hence that left field bit about Mogis and the sword.

Hi Red, I'm doing well. Just woke up, reading through the text wall now.

@Wraith:
Go eat your mom's dirty fucking pussy and then choke on that nasty ass cum bitch.

What's this about? This seems wildly out of place. Are you trying to get a specific reaction or is this really Buttmad Mafia?

The URL is at the bottom of the OP, just change the username to whoever you want to search.

Balls, no fun

Unvote

Suga seems town to me, he called on rez to stop lurking and gave a possible reason for your RVS having scum motivation.

Rez I don't know, not familiar with his style yet.

Buttmad Mafia shall henceforth continue

Z I like that you post a lot and generate discussion, but I have no idea how the banter during RVS serves any purpose other than occupying time while everyone checks in.

Is there some wiki entry that I could read? You say my posts are light on involvement / analysis, which is true. I don't see anything to analyze other than Wraith not catching your dry humor and rez being annoyed.

Y he mad tho

My ape and eyeroll smilies are ready.

I will, I've set up a notification so in can follow along with this game. It's fun to actually be here during RVS, I always end up making my debut on page 6 after everyone is sour.

Random Vigilante Stage

the level of srs in this thread is too damn high

I love when RVS get taken seriously!

My serious vote is now random.

Lozlz, you got me Wraith! Now we just need half of the player base to "R"VS Z and my devious plan will have worked. Yeah dice rolls!

- laughs menacingly, strokes beard -