Dies to Removal

Pie:

I enjoyed the setup, please make another soon.

Nice to see that my "blend in with town" game is strong.

He turned out to be scum anyway, which was daggers.

Yeah, I slipped when I said Red wasn't on my team. I originally planned to claim town commuter, but wasn't thinking when I posted that comment about Red. Oops

Fine work, fellows.

How could I be vigged when I didn't choose an action?

I actually liked math in school, I simply wasn't very good at it

Show me on the doll where the equation touched you

It touched me right in the brainy parts

Even if he is, I still think you'll get to send someone a lead salad.

That's a strange double bind. Hmmm!

Maybe I'll get hit with some wacky ability that changes me to VT.

not a serial killer, but I'm OK with meeting Mr. Mayhem if Red isn't the scum you're looking for.

I actually liked math in school, I simply wasn't very good at it

Show me on the doll where the equation touched you

I mean correct me if I'm wrong but there are plenty of situations that would allow us to still lose

The neutrals turning on the town is the only way. Wraith would love to lynch me so much whether or not he thought I was town that I'm pretty sure that's happening. So, yeah, if we're wrong about Red and rezmo, you're right town loses.

In that scenario, who's the last scum? I'm town, leaving just you, Dechs, Wraith, hammy and LMD. I dunno. If Dechs proves out his shot, he should be good. You're town (right?). So ham maybe? Wraith's ability is kinda scummish, but his claim is very
believable otherwise. I know you guys don't believe me, but I'm quite sure LMD is town. Scum being within the two roleblockers is the only thing that makes sense. I'm really 100% sure we're good here. The only way the game won't be over is if we have to kill hammy first, but that shouldn't be a big deal.

I'll likely need to use my vig shot before town can win since I'm technically still a threat to them.

Not too late for Wraith to disable someone else, that bastard.

Engineer master race checking in. Imperial units bow before my conversion skills!

Shut the fuck up and go back to working on math and algebra and stuffs

Engineer master race checking in. Imperial units bow before my conversion skills!

Yay everybody wins!

Vote Red

[ ]===

Oh snap, that escalated quickly.

Intent to hammer. Anyone want to hear from Red before I go full yolo?

Wraith:

You keep trying to get me lynched, but that's a waste of town's time, and a waste of your time if you're looking to ally with town in their hunt for scum.

They should be going after scum, not trading one of their own for my life.

You already disabled me, so I can't possibly perform a scum NK or vig anyone, so what are you worried about?

Professor Stardust too stronk.

@mod: could you put up a votecount?

Guys obviously we're all just a bunch of neutrals fighting against a mafia faction.

Eh? I didn't claim any color. DK was the guy claiming green in his role PM.

I haven't received any notice from Pie about being disabled.

Ham, Wraith, I'm going to assume you're both self aligned.

Right now it should be five town, two of you, and one scum. Your odds are way better with town right now, so do yourselves and us a favor and help us find the last scumbucket. Stop wasting time with each other.

I can confirm my ability. Ham can't. Letting this go is what he is betting on.

You claim to have disabled me, how can I actively prove anything tonight? Where have I shown any desire to let this go? DK is the one suggesting we focus on the no-kill last night.

Wraith:

Everything pings your fucking radar. Who's to say I voted Kaze smoothly? I discussed both him and DK with Stardust yesterday, and put my vote on the absentee to avoid a NL day 1. Simply saying I'm floundering does not make it so.

Amusing that your stated strategy is a copy of mine (play pro-town) but you've only now adopted it on day 2.

You've disabled me, so anyone is welcome to investigate me or kill me tonight.

The lack of a hide ability makes me wonder what the hell Wraith is doing, along with his poor timing. Why not counter immediately?

If he gets me lynched, I'll flip survivor and he'll get lynched the following day for lying, which seems like an exceedingly poor play and completely against his stated win-con.

@Stardust: I hid behind LMD last night.

DK:

Stop trying to suicide, we need to clear up this Wraith counterclaim nonsense.

Wraith:

You claim survivor, where's your hide ability? Why didn't you target me last night to prove your counter-claim?

If you disabled me, I'm free to be investigated tonight. Come at me, bros.

Wraith:

I doubt it, the meat of your accusation revolves around a game having 2 self-aligned players. You would have believed me if I'd pretended to be a vanilla survivor?

Hah, my unprotected 1 vig shot is overpowered? I have to dodge mafia kills at night and work with town during the day (with razor thin margins for error).

I originally PMed Pie SK/Arsonist because I didn't interpret the game rules correctly, and he told me I needed to submit an alignment and a single role name. He suggested self-aligned, which is a traditional alignment for the roles I requested. I picked self-aligned SK.

He chose self-aligned and gave me a survivor role.

At night, I choose a player to hide behind. If a player targets me with a kill ability, it will fail. If the player I chose is targeted with a kill ability, I die too.

I have a 1-shot vig that I can use, but I can't hide if I choose it.

I win if I'm alive when any faction achieves their win condition, or if I'm the last player alive.

Wraith, what's your alignment?

Self aligned. Now that a scum got lynched, I think town is favored to win. Ham should be cased like stardust did cause I really think he falsely claiming. He used neutral as an alignment but I think it is a play of words. I win when any faction wins. His wording is wrong. I did not ya anything earlier as I wanted to see who he voted for. It is a high possibility that he bussed kaze to gain trust. Why DK is buttering up to ham is beyond me. DK is off my radar for a vote as he is in a cage technically. It would be a waste of a vote currently and only confirm
Red and I somewhat.

I am only throwing out my credentials this game cause ham is falsely claiming in my opinion. A neutral claim is BS cause I hold that spot. I doubt there is another like me in this game unless he another faction. Another faction that is not self aligned has to be dangerous.

No night kill has me intrigued. This small a player base demands the removal of players through night kills to get the numbers advantage.

Nah bro, I claimed self-aligned from the start. Here's the post where I used it.

I'm not scum, and I know Red's not on my team because reasons.

I know you declined to answer to this already, but I really think you should. Do it. Independents are generally anti-town, so I'm going to lynch you either way. May as well try to convince me not to.

Ok, seems fine. I asked Pie to make me a self-aligned serial killer. He chose self-aligned and gave me a survivor role with an alternate ability that I can choose, but it leaves me unprotected.

My best chance to live through the game is to play the odds and go pro-town from the start. I cast my vote for DK, the player who seemed scummiest and has remained so. Finding scum seems a faster avenue to victory than hiding behind ever-shrinking numbers of townies.

etc.

I used the exact words from my role PM.

Yeah, the extension was to get us through the prerelease weekend, which is almost over. I haven't seen Kaze anywhere on the site, and certainly not in here.

I'd appreciate an extension, thanks Pie.

My accusations are probably less frightening than yours, so that could explain the difference in tone. I forgot to mention that he suggested we lynch him immediately in Postal, but the thought did occur to me.

I'll look at the Kaze-DK interactions again. I thought the whole "my vote is still on you right? Cool" thing was really weird, especially since he was voting Red.

Also curious why DK hasn't pressed Kaze for role information like he did with you.

I did an ISO on Kaze this morning and found his behavior aggressive as usual.

I've played against scum Kaze before and his tone here seems different, almost like he doesn't care that people are thinking him scummy. Is this a scum tell for anyone? When I play as town, I'm much more willing to look scummy in the short term because I'm confident in my flip and long term play revealing me to be town. I know he's dealing with some personal stuff right now, which is probably why he's not posting. It's not helping his wagon though.

DK's reaction to Stardust's case on him is both similar and different to his reaction to me accusing him in Gone Postal. In that one he calmly responded to me, showed some amount of contrition and confusion, and acted the way I expected a townie would. In this game, I read his responses as very emotional and agitated. Two possibilities:

1. He's actually town, but playing poorly (this is
his first town game if so) and is learning how being a mislynch wagon feels.

2. He's a scum role and flailing around (appeal to emotion) to get sympathy points.

He's claimed an X-shot cop, which is something I'd like him to get the opportunity to prove.

Stardust is actively engaged in his "professor Stardust" persona where he actively explains his votes and reads. Another player who I can't remember described this in a different game I played with Stardust. I'll search the archives to see whether it was relevant, given his role.

I have no read on io2, LMD, or rez, since I've been concentrating on the Kaze-Stardust-DK circle of distrust.

Red is displaying the same annoyance that accompanied his town play in Gone Postal.

Wraith will forever confuse me, and I'm trying not to let his scum role from Gone Postal color my read. So far I'm not doing a great job because I'm still angry about how that game turned out.

I'm forever suspicious of lurkers, and I'm apparently
unable to read LMD at all, but the wagons may be all town right now while the scum team idles nearby off-screen.

I don't have issue with your case re. Red, I intend to dig more into it tonight.

I'll just copy-paste bits that I found speculative. I'm on my phone so they aren't real quotes.

This is where it all begins. I didn't like this one for two reasons: 1) Asking for my role for no reason, and 2) Being uncomfortable about voting. Townies usually feel free to mess around a bit in RVS - even newbies don't worry about it even if they don't understand it. It's much more often the scum that you see being uncomfortable voting at random (voting no lynch, voting at random, that sort of thing).

Why do you assert that he's being uncomfortable? It seems odd to me that something as mundane as RVS could make him uncomfortable.

Apparently he asked me about my role "to start getting reads". It's no secret that this really bugged me, primarily because he didn't follow up in the slightest. Instead, he seems more inclined to throw dirt my way for dodging
the question.

Saying that you gave him a silly response is hardly throwing dirt.

In the very next post, Dechs soft claims. He's at two votes. Townies can soft claim, but not like this. This is desperation. That desperation continues in his multi-post with him asking us to lynch him. Standard scum tactic, really, and one Dechs himself made use of in Gone Postal.

Labeling it as desperation assigns scum motivation to it, at least in my mind. Saying that townies can do what he did, but not the way he did it suggests that you have an agenda.

You may be right, and the rest of your case on DK is strong, but I try hard to identify the motivation behind posts involving player-on-player action.

Pedit: simmer down DK y u mad bro?

Stardust:

That's an interesting case, if a bit heavy on speculation. I'll re-read it for better detail after work.

The thing I noticed during yesterday's re-read is DK's focus on roles (both his and others) which I view as extremely anti-town. The bit about trading votes for role info from you seemed extra out of place.

I view claiming as pro-town when it's justified and volunteered (re. my vig claim in Gone Postal), but trying to fish out role info on day 1 gives scum a better idea of the town power level.

What do you think of rez and his scum accusation of Wraith? The whole thing looks like two scum factions fighting it out from my POV, but that seems horrible from a balance perspective.

rez:

Is it an obvious tell?

Given his recent scum flip in Gone Postal, I'm less likely to be fooled by the "crazy Wraith he's so crazy" shtick and label him town by virtue of consistency. I'll take the possibility of him being scum seriously if you could point me in the right direction (without making it obvious to him so he stops doing it).

Something weird I noticed on my re-read.

Oh, and I'm careful because I have a legit useful to town power role and I'd like to use it at least once before I get hanged. I rigged my choices so I couldn't be a vanilla townie.

So I'm at four votes, I guess I should claim something.

Vanilla town with a two shot ability that is a perfectly reliable investigative power.

Like I said, though, I probably have no idea how to use it best. So, yeah. Go on. Hang me.

He rigged his choices so he couldn't be a vanilla townie then claims vanilla townie.



Still sorting out the Kaze-Stardust accusation storm.