Dies to Removal

My opinion (and the opinion of many high level burn players):

If you want to play Wild Nacatl, play Zoo. If you want to play a Zoo list that's pretty similar to Burn's playstyle, play the deck Cedric Phillips has been playing on Modern Super League. It's literally Patrick Sullivan's list card for card and he's been having a lot of success with it. I've been playing a slightly different list with good results too.

Video was hard to watch.

Path to Exile is totally reasonable vs Grixis. I would actually replace a Rending Volley and a Relic for two more Path. I really don't like Rending Volley in Burn. Path serves a similar purpose, and though it can get countered vs Twin, they have to play around it until they have the counter backup along with their Twin. The earliest this can happen is turn five, and if you can't win by then, oh well.

Affinity and Tron can be a difficult matchup for Burn, so Stony Silence seems excellent there. I might even be tempted to play two if you expect enough of them.

I like the 60.

I was thinking the same thing re: RB deck.

Wow that's greedy. At what point do you just run Zooicide? It seems like a worse version of it.

I can't believe I forgot about Spark Elemental. I was brewing with Abbot awhile ago and was looking for more 1 cmc spells. It seems like a perfect fit for an Abbot list.

I've seen so much Affinity and decks with small dudes lately that I've frequently sided in 12 cards against them. My board is THAT lopsided.

That it is.

How has three Grim Lavamancer been? I've only ever tried two because they are so bad in multiples, but at least if the first one dies you have some insurance.

I don't quite understand the 3/1 split on Revelry and Smash. I think the fourth Revelry will win you more games across the field than the extra damage and nongreen requirement on Smash.

I've been playing my Zoo list a bit more. Swapped out the Pyromancers for Abbots again but went down to two and put in a third Lightning Helix. I've enjoyed the extra reach and right now I feel like the Abbots are ultimately better since the deck wants to be fast and not grind. I do wish Chain Lightning was legal though.

Well, some bad matchups get a LOT better and almost favorable. Affinity feels stronger to me, but I don't have a large enough sample size to say definitively that it's better. You're also less susceptible to the typical Burn hate cards, and I'd bet the percentage you gain from that is roughly equivalent or even greater than the percentage you're giving up in your "good" matchups.

As a Grixis Control pilot I would say that the matchup is a lot worse for me when my opponent is swarming the board with one drops rather than relying on spells to kill me. I only have so many Lightning Bolts and Terminates, whereas postboard I'll be leaning on Dispels, Negates, and Duress to clear the burn spells.

I've been playing this with a bit of success on MTGO. I think if you're wanting to play Atarka's Command, this is the kind of shell you want to play it in.

[deck]
Creatures (21)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Kird Ape
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Young Pyromancer

Spells (19)
2 Mutagenic Growth
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
2 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze

Lands (20)
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Arid Mesa
3 Stomping Ground
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3 Path to Exile
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Forked Bolt
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Deflecting Palm
3 Molten Rain
[/deck]

This is pretty close to what made the top 8 of SCG Charlotte and also close to what Patrick Sullivan has been running on MTGO. I know it's bordering on a Small Zoo list but I do think it's close enough to pure Burn that it's worth discussing here. I initially had it exactly like his list but noticed I was losing quite a bit to my own Eidolon of the Great Revel due to having to fetch shocks the vast majority of the time. I tried Abbot of Keral Keep but was not impressed so now I'm giving Young Pyromancer a go with decent results. He's particularly good with Atarka's Command and I have lived the dream of going battle cry mode with multiple Elemental tokens on the field.

I must admit that I have underestimated the versatility of Atarka's Command. I've won a few games vs Affinity where the reach mode turned into a total blowout. I didn't realize just how good it was against that deck, but then again my opponents could just be bad walking into it with me having mana open.

The nice thing about going more creature heavy is that you aren't quite as soft to Dragon's Claw and Kor Firewalker. Going wide against these cards is a legitimate strategy and I have pushed through both of these cards in testing rather easily.

I wish I could get Patrick Sullivan's opinions on the list and his testing results thusfar. Might be time to create a Twitter account...

Yeah, the new changes have pushed everyone out of the DEs and into the 8 mans, along with the fact that boosters are a lot more scarce currently given that fewer are being passed out as prizes.

Yeah, you have to take your lumps as a Burn player and just concede that some matchups will be borderline hopeless. It's still a great deck.

I like the meta analysis they did, but I wouldn't take it as gospel. For instance, Grixis Control is actually highly favored against Affinity, and high level pilots of both decks would agree with that statement. Some of the data gets a little shaky because Twin and Delver sometimes get thrown into the "Grixis Control" bin.

Modern is definitely rock paper scissors, but to me the difference is that Burn has a few 30/70 matchups where I'd say a deck like Grixis Control has maybe one or two of those. Other matchups that may be unfavorable won't be by much, and as a bonus a deck like Grixis offers a lot more play to it.

I'm just salty I have all these foil Burn cards but can't bring myself to play them.

scrubbed because bloom is unwinnable

This is precisely why I didn't play Burn at my PPTQ and don't like it in general right now. I've gotten a lot more risk averse over the past year regarding my deck choices and I prefer piloting something that can interact with the unfair decks in a meaningful way, and Burn doesn't really have this option. It's still a good deck and the correct choice at times though.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Might be too cute. I'd stick with what you have.

With the 75 you posted, probably not. Definitely not on the draw.

Just curious: what is your postboard plan on the play and draw?

Depends on play vs draw and board state. If I've played a one drop, I'm definitely jamming Eidolon after attacks. If I have two in hand, I'm jamming. If I have two more one drop creatures to play, I'm doing that instead because swarming the board is more effective against them. This forces them to make a play the following turn or they just die to my board. Once they kill one of my creatures, I force out the Eidolon.

If those are the big four, you really don't need six maindeck Skullcrack effects. Affinity, Grixis, and Twin won't be gaining life on you, and Jund will be the only deck doing it postboard with Feed the Clan. If you are worried about that, run a couple of Skullcrack in the board.

The key to beating Grixis is that you need a one drop in your opener. This puts them in an awkward position where they either need to fetch and shock themselves to bolt (which means the creature would have effectively gotten its damage in) or, if they don't have bolt, lean on Terminate. If it's a Swiftspear they can't even reliably flash in a Snapcaster to block. Fast Tasigur/Gurmag can be a problem too, so you may want to board in a couple of Paths. Savvy Grixis players will not be playing Dragon's Claw or other cute cards and will instead try to beat you with Dispels out of the board. Try to force as much damage as you can early and get a read on what countermagic they are holding up. For instance, if they play a Tar Pit on turn two and pass, they may have Spell Snare and are leaning on it to counter your Eidolon. If the untapped source is a Steam Vents, they might just be holding a Bolt to play on your creature. In this position, play spells during your main phase that play around these cards.

I'm coming around on maindeck Lightning Helix over Flame Javelin. Probably need to go to 12 fetches too.

All that said, I'll likely be on Grixis Control since I feel it gives me the best game against both fair and unfair decks.

Your sb seems really geared towards beating affinity? If I had to guess a meta, I would say grixis control, delver and twin decks, affinity will be popular. I'll get more details tomorrow about what else I think I'll face.

I like no molten rains. Have you seen tech from modo sashing 1 blood crypt for self inflicted wound in the sb?

Do I mulligan most hands without a 1 drop?

My board is definitely geared toward beating Affinity, the mirror, and small CoCo decks. I'm the only Grixis Control player I'm aware of at my LGS but I could be wrong given I show up once a month on average. If you expect a lot of Grixis control and Twin you may want Paths. As much as I hate playing cards that don't do damage, beating an early Tasigur or Angler can be difficult for Burn (speaking from my side of the matchup) and killing Exarch is a bit awkward due to the 4 butt. I think Path is better than Rending Volley since it's more robust.

I have seen the Wound tech (I considered it myself before it was a thing). It's a better Searing Blood against the bigger CoCo decks (ones running Smiter, KotR, etc) and Amulet so if that's popular around you it's worth considering.

When asking about one drops, are you referring to creatures? There are a wide range of hands without a one drop creature I'd keep. I can't imagine a hand with no turn one play whatsoever, but I'd keep one with multiple Searing effects postboard against small aggro (especially Affinity if I have a Revelry).

Start with the main...

Why not 12 fetches, and 1 more sacred foundry?
Why 4 skullcrack, but zero lightning helix?
Flame Javelin over Shard Volley? (isnt firecraft better )

1) Might be fine. I really only need WW for Firewalker and Burn won't typically be siding in ways to destroy our Foundry. Maybe just an extra fetch is enough?

2) Skullcrack represents more than three damage when its effect is used. Helix is good for the lifelink but underwhelming in non racing situations. I do like Helix though and it might be worth considering given the higher than average representation of Affinity here.

3) Flame Javelin kills Exarch at instant speed.

If they see it game two and it goes to a third game, siding in Revelry is totally reasonable since it also hits Eidolon (though you may be siding those out if you're on the draw).

I have a PPTQ this Saturday. I'm leaning toward Grixis Control but Burn is my fallback. This is where I'm at with that list (underdeveloped because I've been focusing on Grixis).

[deck]
4 monastery swiftspear
4 goblin guide
2 grim lavamancer
4 eidolon of the great revel

4 lightning bolt
4 lava spike
4 rift bolt
4 boros charm
4 searing blaze
4 skullcrack
2 flame javelin

11 fetches
2 sacred foundry
1 stomping ground
6 mountain

1 grim lavamancer
4 destructive revelry
2 pyrite spellbomb
3 searing blood
2 deflecting palm
3 kor firewalker
[/deck]

Was your pptq last weekend or this weekend?

The one that doesn't die to Destructive Revelry and triggers off your red spells.

Watching others play Nacatl, I have not been impressed at all.

I've always been on RW splashing green for Revelry in the board.

Two Swiftspear easily.

It's not the worst if you miss your land drops for a couple of turns either. Fetch, cast Lavaman. Spike or suspend Rift Bolt and attack, then you have food for Lavaman next turn.

I think playing Burn prices you into keeping hands like that in game one.

My multitasking, multi-tab lifestyle finally got the best of me.

Don't post late at night, kids.

Vexing Devil is at least better then Wild Nacatl imo, so no I don't think your crazy.

You're crazy.

I agree with his logic, especially if he was expecting a lot of matchups where Eidolon is bad (Affinity, mirror). You want to be drawing spells that go to the dome late in the game, so you have to keep the creature count low.

I actually think there's merit to a creature-heavy build if you're committing to Atarka's Command. Might as well go the extra mile and play Nacatl, no?

That said, cutting Eidolon seems very wrong.

No I managed to dodge the mirror all day but I definitely know of JW. Pretty well know dude around here. I'm sure we've played each other a few times around town.

Awesome. We go back. Waaaaaaay back. Known him since I was 12 and first got into Magic.

Cool. That's a big PPTQ. I believe my friend was also on Burn. Did you play a mirror in round 2 against a guy named JW?

Did this happen to be the Atlanta PPTQ? A friend of mine was there and I know that one was in the 80s.