Dies to Removal

Saw that list last week while looking at MTGGoldfish. It piqued my interest, although I still want to play Atarka Red over this. Love the tribal synergy.

LD - Are you replying to me or Khaos?

I don't think those cards would add anything to the deck, plus I wouldn't want to remove anything for them. That being said, I'm not big on Pilgrim to begin with.

Feel free to humor us with what you'd like to replace it with.

This is the list in question

[DECK]
Lands (25)
4 Battlefield Forge
2 Evolving Wilds
10 Mountain
5 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures (16)
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Seeker of the Way
4 Soulfire Grand Master
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (19)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Outpost Siege
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Wild Slash
1 Valorous Stance

Sideboard (15)
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
1 Chandra, Pyromancer
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 End Hostilities
2 Erase
1 Hushwing Gryff
3 Mastery of the Unseen
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Valorous Stance
[/DECK]

Another question to get the juices flowing. I recently saw a list that didn't have Hordeling Outburst. The player piloted it to a 4-1 record in an MTGO Standard Champs. I realize I'm only citing one occurrence, but it begs the question. Is Outburst a MUST HAVE in our 75?

Yeah. They dropped quite a bit in the last few weeks.

I tried the Mardu build that 7-0'd the PTQ and like it a little more than my own. I'm either playing it or Abzan Control (because Abzan Control has no truly terrible matches ATM).

Trying to find the list but no luck so far. Do you have a link?

EDIT: Oops. Seems I'm late to the party.

The barely mardu deck is basically what you want to play if you think the metagame allows you to play slightly slower while getting more power. It's particularly effective vs. Green devotion and doom gives you less dead cards vs. various control shells since it still deals damage and is easier to justify in postboard games as opposed to chain which is likely necessary but doesn't hit silumgar and gets answered by sultai charm out of sultai.

Logic nigga.

This makes sense to me. Very good explanation LP.

Well, I ask because Doom's mentioned in more than one article in the last week.

Adam Yurchick wrote in his article today, "Crackling Doom isn't as efficient as Chained to the Rocks, but as a burn spell its more aggressive and better against control. It's also not vulnerable to enchantment removal and cards like Ugin, the Spirit Dragon."

Josh Silvestri from his article yesterday, "It really goes to show you just how strong Crackling Doom is at the moment, it’s by far one of the best spells you can have against Forest decks and is acceptable in nearly any matchup."

And once more from Silvestri (can you tell I value your opinion jsilv?):

@it's worse than R/W: I actually tried this bc Stark specifically said after talking with Sam Black that his deck would've been much better w/ Crackling Doom. The mana is basically on the same level as Jeskai and there's nothing in RW that replicates what Crackling Doom does for the deck. Butcher can basically be any big dumb thing, I just like it because Butcher is a 4-drop and gives us options late when the 2/2's are sitting there being useless. This is why so little of the main RW deck was changed. This is a build aimed at winning mirrors and having a reasonable shot vs. bigger Forest decks.

I just want to get a dialogue going about the future direction of this deck.

So, serious question. Is it worth it to dilute our mana base to include Crackling Doom? Or is that version of the deck just a flash in the pan?

Still, i can't imagine playing more than 2.

You don't need more than 1 Grand Master if you're running the "normal" R/W list. 3-4 if you're running Stark's list. I tried out Pilgrim recently and I don't particularly like her in the deck. But if you're putting good results with her, that's all that really matters. Stick with what feels right.

Gryff also seems like obsolete tech as it's so unreliable and generally low impact.

Gryff has been doing work for me recently. Lots of Siege Rhino running around in my local meta. Would the alternative be to just get ahead with Grand Master and race?

I don't think it's that obvious to me. Are you bringing Eruption in because of Chained?

Where'd you find room for Pilgrim in your 75?

I would say no. Typically, you would want at least 10 black sources in order to see one by turn 5.

I'm going to drop Brimaz and replace with Ashcloud. I also think I want another Valorous Stance. It helped me out several times. I want to try End Hostilities in the SB after the Temur matchup I had where my opponent had multiple [card]Nylea's Disciple[/card]s, multiple Coursers, multiple Sabertooths, and pulled off the Genesis Hydra combo.

Went 3-1 at FNM with the list I posted above. Had no right winning some of the games, but I find this deck to be very forgiving of play mistakes. Brimaz didn't really have an impact, but to be fair, neither did Ashcloud. Only loss was to Temur Ascendancy. Beat WU Heroic, Mardu Warriors, and Jeskai Tempo. Sorry for such an incomplete report. I'll see if I can jot down some notes later.

Another question. Given the choice between Brimaz or Ashcloud, which would you choose?

Is 18 creatures too many?

It there is much control, shouldn't you pak 2 mainboard sieges at least?

I just made that switch last night.

Also thinking about the 2 Wild Slash in the mainboard. I'd think that 2 VS instead could more valuable against control (kill a Tasigur or protect a creature from a removal).
Maybe doing 2 to the dome is still something.

Yeah, I'll probably swap Slash and Stance. Bring in Slash for the aggro matchup.

Alright. Need opinions on my list. Playing at a new store, and I hear that there's a lot of control. I don't know if that means UB, or Abzan, or whatever. So what does this look like for an unknown meta?

[DECK]
Lands (24)
4 Battlefield Forge
1 Evolving Wilds
9 Mountain
5 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag

Creatures (15)
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Seeker of the Way
1 Soulfire Grand Master
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (21)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Lightning Strike
2 Outpost Siege
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Valorous Stance
1 Wild Slash

Sideboard (15)
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Arc Lightning
2 Erase
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Hushwing Gryff
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Wild Slash
[/DECK]

Also, I can switch to something that is more effective if it's warranted. I have everything to make Boss Sligh, Jeskai Tokens, Jeskai Tempo, R Aggro, Mardu Midrange, and Mardu Aggro.