Dies to Removal

Stardust I know you said you're chalking it up as a win, but so am I

I don't even track my wins/losses. Just saying I'm really happy with my performance and feel like we really should have won (assuming the rest of the town didn't just up and lynch me!). I pushed both you and Z to lynch and both of you were scum, so that's pretty sweet.


freedom! You had a guilty on imopen and chose not to come
forward? Nice.

If I remember correctly, RCW would have died night 1, but he was bus driven.

Claim:

I am STARDUST, Survivor. My win condition is that I must survive until any other faction achieves their own win condition (mafia have parity with Town or all mafia are dead). I have a 1-shot NK ability.

WTF?

We lynch this, right? Not town, won't be town,
doesn't help town.

vote: Zemanjaski

Just be aware that for reasons that will be revealed upon my death, Stardust is scum.

Oh...we will auto suspect/know this if you role town.

Claim:

I am STARDUST, Survivor. My win condition is that I must survive until any other faction achieves their own win condition (mafia have parity with Town or all mafia are dead). I have a 1-shot NK ability.

In both case Rcwraspy and G_R are big targets for nightkills. Iamopen2 could be lying thus I can't count him really toward anything beyond a voter. How would he know who is the miller to save Rcwraspy during the night?

I think the prudent vote is for Zem now, but Iamopen2 is a good vote as well. I will wait for Iamopen2 to respond before I vote for Zem.

I guess throwing up my hands completely isn't very helpful. I refuse to waste my time with you anymore, but I ought to at least point out the lies.

---

Your reasoning is additionally faulty because scum tried to kill raspy anyway* so he was already a clear target, before I pushed the test.

Irrevelant. You didn't know this when you went after rcw. Or maybe you did and just slipped. Either way.

You're tunelling to the exclusion of all others, which is not in keeping with your play yesterday. That's a huge red flag for me. You seem to think that my strategem as scum is to draw as much possible attention to myself as I can?

Remember when I tunneled you Day 1? And then decided that you were town based on your responses?

Putting words in my mouth.

Again, you don't explain why it is scummy. I explained my reasoning repeatedly, which you continue to ignore (is that a scum tell?). If it is so scummy, why didn't you say anything at the time? Others did - DocLawless and Freedom both questioned me about it extensively. G_R was in on it too. But they're not scum right? It's only scum if you say so yes?

I did already explain why it's
scummy. I also already answered why I didn't say anything at the time (Day 1, Z asked for my input then pushed the lynch to completion in about 4 hours). Then you go on to put words in my mouth again, based on something I've already explained (hint: everyone else followed you Day 2 after rcw full claimed).

Just like you're pushing Ham to vote for me now, going so far as to bully him. You're scum right?

Here's a lie, flat out.

That fact is SD, you made a huge error that you've refused to actually admit to. In one breath you say it is scummy for me not to follow the advice of other players; and in the
next say it is scummy when I do. It cannot be both as you claimed. What lies at the core here is you trying to control the narrative of the discourse, and I simply won't allow it. That's why you want me gone, because you don't like what questions I am asking. You're basically doing all of the bloodthirsty acts you accused me of, which is amusing in itself.

The difference is I never had you as town. Explain the bolded. You've been doing nothing Day 2.

He actually isn't, not at all. The player he replaced acted Town, but that wasn't enough to confirm him, and it certainly doesn't extend to a player who has done nothing so far. I want everyone to pay attention to this cry for help - that isn't how Stardust played Day 1 at all; Day 1 Stardust
presented logical arguments and allowed others to make up their mind. Day 2 Stardust whines for help when she isn't getting the results she wants and tries to bully inexperienced players. We're seeing appeals to emotion instead of appeals to logic now.

Again with the bullying comment. I haven't bullied anyone. My "whining" to get Jones's input is similar to when I asked Doc or Pie for input repeatedly Day 1, but that is ignored. Not to mention he's now questioning strong town reads he himself shared at the time.

- its only scummy if I want to test rcw's claim. G_R proposed to do it again, but that's fine, as it is only scum when I do it.

Being intentionally dense and ignoring that I've repeatedly said it makes sense now that rcw has fully claimed.

- does anyone else find it strange that Stardust now considers Rez likely scum despite being the player who stated that Rez waas "95%" likely Town after the day kill? Thing is, Stardust needs Rez to be Town for her claimed "we can make a mislynch and still win" scenarios; she doesn't even mention the possibility that Rez isn't scum (which he won't be, 95% of the time). which misleads Town substantially. SD is the most experienced player and would be fully aware of how important Rez not revealing an alignment would be; yet no mention. We need to consider that Rez was Town.

Ignoring the fact that I was voting for rezombad when Day 1 ended. Also ignoring the fact that I did mention the possibility that rez isn't scum. Also ignoring the fact that I went into detail previously on rezombad's hidden flip.

- SD has spent all of toDay tunelling me, after barely interacting with me yesterDay. From straight out of the gates, she had run lines of argument that ignore the contribution and encouragement of others. We've already seen that her argument that testing raspy is incredibly weak, so the rest has become this manufactured "we should kill him anyway; we can make a mistake and still win". That's not the position of someone who can make a real case, that's the position of someone who is desperate.

Ignoring that I have repeatedly stated that my case is based not on rcw but on Pie. zemanjaski tried to counter that initially with "Look at these other guys!!" but has now continued to ignore that line of questioning, probably because he has no defense. Z's stated townie reasoning for pushing to
lynch his town read (Pie) was to get information. He still has yet to go back and use that information even in the slightest.

- You've made multiples lines of argument that seek to silence or control my contributions

Bold words. Better find some quotes to back that up since as is this is just blatant smearing.

Engaged a bit more than I intended to. Whatever.

Rcwraspy, why so quiet? Who do you find as scum?

I've stated repeatedly that I do the majority of my posting from work. When the work day ends, most of my content will too. I'm on the east coast.

Rcwraspy, why so quiet? Who do you find as scum?

Well, if we have a cop that survives the Night, we're pretty much sure to win the game if we lynch scum toDay.

You know what, it doesn't even matter. We've got such a solid town bloc, even if you don't count me among the townies. I said before that I thought the mafia were within these five: hamfactorial, rcwraspy, imopen2, LMD and G_R. You can add rezombad, Wraith and me to that list if you like, but as a trade we can remove rcw (unlynchable) and G_R (double voter).

Probably imopen2 and Wraith are town.

If that's correct, that leaves us with hamfactorial, zemanjaski and me as the possible scum. Even if rezombad was town, we're still (very likely) allowed one more mislynch, meaning that we'll need to resolve the last scum after lynching those three. However, if rezombad was scum (which I think he was) things are looking great. We're still allowed two more
mislynches, meaning that we can lynch all three on that list and have one more lynch to spare.

Basically what I'm saying is, I'm pretty sure the scum team is rezombad, hammy and zemanjaski. I would be willing to vote either of them. PoE is pretty awesome when you've got solid townies.

re

Okay, and what differences do you see in the posting of townZ (Kaits) and scumZ (current)?

What similarities do you see? I see number 3 as most likely, even if he was actually roleplaying.

Also, did you see my question about Z RP'ing Kaitscralt in his original role (the doc role that was day killed)? Do you think he was doing a good job of RPing him then, and do you see differences in posting now?

Yes, I saw that. That raised red flags for me too (and I think I asked about it shortly after he replaced in, but never got a reply). I haven't caught any significant differences in posting. What do you see?

Another point you missed Stardust on Zem. He wanted to re-test Rcwraspy. That is wasting time to keep a no vote going to stall the game out through the holidays.

Evidence is evidence and I will present it all.

When was this? You're saying he wanted to lynch rcw a third time? Can you quote this?

@Rcw, How are my posts confusing? I present clear info and try to be as open as possible. Freedom has been acting rather scummy in recent posts. If there is a significant movement to vote freedom; i will vote freedom. He has "dropped the hammer" when he previously did not want to. Very sligh way to appear town folowed by a vote to kill a towny. Shaddy voting is scummy to me as Stardust has done.

I don't have much time, tons of work to do.

RCW was the NK target. I used my bus driver ability to deflect any actions taken against him onto Rez. I suspected that rcw would be the NK target since he is unlynchable and confirmed town. I
also didn't like rez's role-fishing at the end of the day and I felt that the unlynchable was probably balanced by a scum vig. I have no idea why his role was not revealed to us tho

More later

Why would you vote Rcwraspy if you saved him to kill Rez? Explain the third sentence more please.

We're all voting me to make sure my unlynchable is static and not one-shot.

Hop on in, the water's fine.

Do you even know your ability? Why support a lynch of yourself?

I don't have much time, tons of work to do.

RCW was the NK target. I used my bus driver ability to deflect any actions taken against him onto Rez. I suspected that rcw would be the NK target since he is unlynchable and confirmed town. I also didn't like rez's role-fishing at the end of the day and I felt that the unlynchable was probably balanced by a scum vig. I have no idea why his role was not revealed to us tho

More later

Why would you vote Rcwraspy if you saved him to kill Rez? Explain the third sentence more please.

Oh, and Vote RCW

If we're voting me just to prove it's static that's fine, and I'll join in.

After I ask a question. To the experienced players - are there roles out there that clear PRs? Like, a vanilla-izer or something?

If yes, do we really want to risk this?

Did you get any PMs last night?

WTF is a miller?

@rcwraspy, WTF is day chat that distingueshes me as scum?

A miller is an odd ability. If there's a cop and they investigate a miller, the investigation will show scum even though I'm town. Uh, ok...good to know, but does not help us at all? Why does such a chractor even exist?

Day-chat is a separate chat space for scum that sometimes exists and sometimes doesn't. I was scum in my previous two games and we only had night-chat. Typically only scum know whether or not there's day-chat and it's considered a pretty large scum-tell to slip by talking about it, which you did in the post I quoted:

The fuck...what...? Are you tallking to me or InflateablePie? So confused.
I vote based on evidence/conclusions from posts, not bandwagon votes. GR looks scumy, but his posts are pointless to try
and read. I need more data for a vote on him.
"I hate you". Good. The best response of a scum sucker so far. Why would tell us you are waiting for a response? Your scum friends not talking right now?

PEdit: WTF Pie. Ok, is it scummy or just dumb to self-vote like that? I really don't understand what he's doing unless it's simply just no more desire to play the game.

I was confused who IP was talking to. The jump to conclusion that I am "day talking" on that post is beyond stupid. I have been on IP's ass for a long time and am voting to lynch him. Why does this confuse you? How do you get a scum read out of that post from a quote IP made that made no sense. Did you even read the post i was responding to?

The post you were responding to is irrelevant. It's not that I thought YOU were day-talking (but thanks for bringing it up). It's that you mentioned its
possibility at all. And as a noobie player who has already admitted you didn't read anything from the Mafia Wiki, there's just about no possible way for you to know of its existence unless you were partaking.

If I had any doubt that Pie is scum I'd change my vote to you right now.

You mentioned Day talking first and I responded, WTF is that? Why would I want WIKI to taint any of my views`of detecting scum? I want to figure this shit out on my own. I hate Wiki anyway. If you think I am scum; vote for me then. Don't pussy foot around. I will give you this rcw., you at least used some thought to question me as opposed to G_R. By the way, IT FUCKING MATTERS WHO I WAS RESPONDING TO.....MORON! InflateablePie did not format the post properly and it was confusing, but feel free to dive into it.
What pisses me off about your incompetence in this game is that we apparently can't lynch you cause of a complete retarded, unfounded ability.

@everyone, It is pathetic that it takes
Stardust to get some of you to vote. Why do you people trust her? You don't know if she is scum. Will give her credit for using logic in reads as opposed to SOME of you.

WTF is a miller?

@rcwraspy, WTF is day chat that distingueshes me as scum?

A miller is an odd ability. If there's a cop and they investigate a miller, the investigation will show scum even though I'm town. Uh, ok...good to know, but does not help us at all? Why does such a chractor even exist?[/color:
gv8y3gi8]

Day-chat is a separate chat space for scum that sometimes exists and sometimes doesn't. I was scum in my previous two games and we only had night-chat. Typically only scum know whether or not there's day-chat and it's considered a pretty large scum-tell to slip by talking about it, which you did in the post I quoted:

The fuck...what...? Are you tallking to me or InflateablePie? So confused.
I vote based on evidence/conclusions from posts, not bandwagon votes. GR looks scumy, but his posts are pointless to try and read. I need more data for a vote on him.
"I hate you". Good. The best response of a scum sucker so far. Why would tell us you are waiting for a response? Your scum friends not talking right now?

PEdit: WTF Pie. Ok, is it
scummy or just dumb to self-vote like that? I really don't understand what he's doing unless it's simply just no more desire to play the game.

I was confused who IP was talking to. The jump to conclusion that I am "day talking" on that post is beyond stupid. I have been on IP's ass for a long time and am voting to lynch him. Why does this confuse you? How do you get a scum read out of that post from a quote IP made that made no sense. Did you even read the post i was responding to?

Unvote, Vote rezombad.

Answer my questions or I will press this until you are lynched. There is no way your case on me was made with good intentions. Not when you can't even answer simple questions about the logic.

WTF is a miller?

@rcwraspy, WTF is day chat that distingueshes me as scum?

The fuck...what...? Are you tallking to me or InflateablePie? So confused.
I vote based on evidence/conclusions from posts, not bandwagon votes. GR looks scumy, but his posts are pointless to try and read. I need more data for a vote on him.
"I hate you". Good. The best response of a scum sucker so far. Why would tell us you are waiting for a response? Your scum friends not talking right now?

Unvote, Vote InflatablePie for the pressure, so I'm not the one bringing it to L-1 this time.

I read through Kaze's Newbie Mafia, where Tube was lynched at the end. It was a lynch that Raspy, playing scum, pulled the trigger on because town brought the vote to L-1. This kinda felt like the same thing.