Dies to Removal

I thought I explained this well enough: We can't afford mistakes right now and LMD is the only one I'm sure of.

Yeah, Ham's town. I believe him. I thought I was clear on that too. I saw you picked on the wording I used when I said I was "betting" Ham was town. I didn't mean that I wasn't sure. It's just a phrase and I'm a poker player so I fall back on it often.

The fight between you and Wraith has personal written all over it and I honestly think it's a tossup between you two, especially with how you've been acting today.

Look, I haven't played mafia before. I don't have great reasons for everything I'm doing and I'm not as clear as I could be about my reasons. Cut me a
little slack here.

Again: We don't have room to make mistakes right now and I'm taking the only sure bet I see.

Y'all know how I feel. We can't make mistakes right now. Wraith could very well be scum, but I'm not comfortable with your relentless hounding of him, Red. It feels personal, not motivated by the game.

LMD is the only clear scum choice. I'm not moving my vote. Ham, you told me you thought he was the only lynch option. Make good on that.

We are coming right down to the wire on a deadline, but don't let it push you to make a bad decision. No-lynch right now is certainly bad, but it's better than lynching the wrong guy. Whatever you vote, be damn sure of it.

Ham sent a bomb while he was protected. LMD had to have gotten that bomb, yet he didn't die. How he didn't get lynched already boggles my mind. I'm absolutely certain of this vote.[/quote:
1vx7smcu]

I'm disappointed. You've yet to answer my question on why you're barning ham so hard while still not declaring him town, yet you continue to do so.
Are you aiming for a no lynch while trying to keep your purpose hidden?

Tell me *now* who you consider scum.
You're either considering me scum - then, case me - or Wraith has got to be.

Because you posted this:

My reads?
[Ham/LMD] - One of these has to be scum setting up the other for a fall. I am 100% certain of that. At the end of today, my vote is either going on LMD or Ham because one of these two guys must be scum. I believe Ham and he's done a lot to help town out the past days. LMD has not. Again, he's hardly ever even talked until he was staring down the gallows.
Red - I broke your wagon down on day one because I read you as town and that hasn't changed. By the analysis and the Occam's Razor bit, you're LMD's scum buddy; I'm not ready to buy that. If you are scum, then I'd like to congratulate you on a
game wll played.
Wraith - When LMD flips scum, I say we look at this guy next. There was a quick hammer that nags at me, but I was on the same wagon and I think I'd have done the same thing had I gotten to the thread in the reverse order. I was damn convinced of Rez being scum.

LMD is who I find the most likely scum. If he is, then it's probably Wraith as his teammate. Wraith is behind an "if" and a "probably," while LMD is behind a bomb that never killed him.

You're contradicting yourself in not wanting to vote Wraith, actually.
Well, you're also saying that you're not moving your vote from LMD no matter what, while at the same time considering a no-lynch a disaster:

Mislynching is losing right now, no-lynching is losing tomorrow.

I'm just saying, I really don't see how a no-lynch helps anyone but
the scum team.

Now, your own words give you NO FUCKIN' REASON to let you keep that "my only scum read is LMD", so speak up, and you're better be convincing.

Vote Wraith

So you talk about a no lynch and throw a vote immediately when you ask about deadline.

Anyway, let's just put it this way: we need 2 scumlynches to win, and we can afford up to 1 no kill (today or tomorrow).
If somebody comes up with a good plan involving a no lynch, I'm open to discussion about it.

You give weak or no reasons for my vote and flip flop with wanting C_P to give opinions. Starting to think your incessant vote and need to call me scum is you playing scum.

In theros game, you were more thoughtful in your opinions and tried to consider the facts more. I think you counter bussed RCW to stay alive.

Why do you ask to speed things up> complain about waiting on C_P > talk about a no lynch> now push a vote. Mixed messages. You going to give another discriminatory attack on me and my country in response?

@everyone else,
scum want a fast vote and the fact of the deadline looming on the horizon. That is what red is doing. Red was in my town read and now I am second guessing that call. Ham, is red acting different from the theros game to you?

That would be overkilling anyway.

I don't feel like sheeping C_P is a wise choice anyway, as he is the less informed player at the moment: he just knows he's town, so every other player is 40% scum to him - you, on the other hand, know his alignment AND yours, so that makes
every other player (provided you're town, of course) 50% scum to you.

I'm more interested in people's read rather than just a lynch, anyway.

C_P is worth considering in opinion and you keep minimizing him to gain main town speaker.

1) I've asked C_P's opinion frequently, yet I don't want people to sheep him. There's nothing wrong here.
2) Shut up, crime.

Explain this.

That would be overkilling anyway.

I don't feel like sheeping C_P is a wise choice anyway, as he is the less informed player at the moment: he just knows he's town, so every other player is 40% scum to him - you, on the other hand, know his alignment AND yours, so that makes every other player (provided you're town, of course) 50% scum to you.

I'm more interested in people's read rather than just a lynch, anyway.

C_P is worth considering in opinion and you keep minimizing him to gain main town speaker.

Well, I know it's not me or CP. If I'm believing Ham, then he's either bussing LMD really hard or he's legit town. I'm betting town.

That leaves you and Wraith. I get where Ham's coming from when he says the team has to be you and LMD, but I've never really had a scum read off of you. I'd have to conclude that it's Wraith and they've just done good work distancing each other with voting patterns. Honestly, I can't expect them to be dumb enough to not do something like that in the past if they were on the same team.

So I think it's pretty apparent Dechs is tunneling me

I've been over my thoughts enough times by now. You haven't been helpful to town. Hell, you hardly have any input unless someone's voting you. You had a bomb delivered to you and didn't die when the target of the bomb was unknown. Someone protected you. If it was a townie, that would have been claimed already. Scum protected you, and they'd have to be idiots to protect a townie when scum could have been the target of the bomb.

This means that 4 players (me, C_P, DK, LMD) has Wraith in their scum team, if I'm correct.

That'd be enough for a lynch.

Anybody backing off?

I think you mean Ham, not CP, but I don't see things the way you do. I don't think Ham/Wraith is a team any more than Wrath/LMD is the team or that you/Wraith is the team. I'm not even certain Wraith is scum.

LMD is who I find the most likely scum. If he is, then it's probably Wraith as his teammate. Wraith is behind an "if" and a "probably," while LMD is behind a bomb that never killed him. My vote isn't changing.

This means that 4 players (me, C_P, DK, LMD) has Wraith in their scum team, if I'm correct.

That'd be enough for a lynch.

Anybody backing off?

I think you mean Ham, not CP, but I don't see things the way you do. I don't think Ham/Wraith is a team any more than Wrath/LMD is the team or that you/Wraith is the team. I'm not even certain Wraith is scum.

LMD is who I find the most likely scum. If he is, then it's probably Wraith as his teammate. Wraith is behind an "if" and a "probably," while LMD is behind a bomb that never killed him. My vote isn't
changing.

Yeah, I've acknowledged that's a possibility. If that's the case, then Ham's lying and scum. It's basically Ham's word against LMD's and I believe Ham.

I did some thinking about an old style of puzzle that I liked to do when I was young. They were called logic puzzles, and could usually be solved by laying out a grid and marking a dot or an X between pairs of things that you wanted to sort out.

They usually went like "a farmer has four cows. One cow is red, one is named Daisy, one is blue, the cow named Martha isn't brown" and you'd work your way through associations until you identified all the cows and their colors.

I made a 4x4 grid with Red, Wraith, LMD and DK and started looking for associations using the most direct tool: lynch votes. Occam's Razor says that in a game with 2 scum players going into
day 2, they're likely to vote to lynch town players instead of each other.

To construct the grid, I laid out the four players on each axis and got to work. I put an X into self pairs, since a player can't form a 2-man team with himself.

Then I put an X wherever a player has shown consistent voting against another player. Wraith consistently votes for Red, and Red consistently votes for Wraith so they each get an X. DK consistently votes for LMD, so they get an X. LMD consistently votes for Wraith, so they get an X.

This arrangement gives only 2 possibilities for the scum team: Red/LMD or DK/Wraith.

I find it interesting that Red laid out an almost identical scum team pairing, except with me teamed with LMD instead of him, since naturally Red would put himself as town and so would I.

Other players here should evaluate this matrix for themselves (with or without players they think are confirmed town).

This Wraith/RN fight is getting nowhere. Please stop.

RedNihilist » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:05 am. I'm trying very hard to avoid tunneling Wraith, that's why I get angry at the idea of re-reading 40+ pages of Wraith's madness to case him when it would be WAY more smart to have someone else do the same without being so emotionally upset at him.
And yes, LMD's vote could have been a trap directed as me as well.

This is strong distancing to me. You don't want to tunnel me, but you are emotional upset with me?
Now you think I am scum? Which is it?

<- won't post anything more until C_P shows up.

REALLY. What changed now this time.

You complained about town slowing down. Then you posted this. Later, you ask for C_P to talk more, and now you are irritated with everyone getting a consensus with a C_P blessing. A consistency problem has been located with you. Please explain.