Dies to Removal

You played a fantastic game, Red.

Quoted for truth.

(Yes, I just quoted myself)

I thought you were scum for one reason only - process of elimination. Even then you convinced me multiple times to unvote based on your extremely townie posts. You didn't really deserve to lose this game, but such is life. Even though you might wish it, I'll never forget how fooled I was by your play this game.

No exaggeration, you are probably the best scum player I've ever seen.

Ah, well the win-con discussion is interesting at least.

My role PM says that I win when all X to Y are Z.

If Red can tell me the three words X, Y and Z, he's totes town.

I don't know the mafia wincon.

So you're saying, and correct me if I'm wrong:

Rezombad posted a lot.
Rezombad claimed cop.
Naturally he would be night killed.
The fact that he wasn't means that he is scum.

Holy wine in front of me, batman.

I am a survivor, I thought stardust was scum so I wanted to lynch him.

I was doing an analysis, I posted relevant facts. Are you saying more prolific posters are more likely to be night killed, and I should have not posted to avoid being noticed by you and witch?

You're really grasping at straws.
Post 2 and 3 are actually the same post, but you could add it again if you want, so maybe you can try to really persuade someone that I'm really spending most of my time modgaming.

I really like the fact that you needed to point out that the neutral survivor goes as far as posting three times as much as I do. Nice way to avoid getting NK'ed. You're really the paranoid one.
I'd like to point out the fact that your behaviour makes no sense for the role you claimed, but I suspect you'll just end up saying that we think too high of you, and that "this post just pisses you off".

1. Where am I grasping at straws? I went trough each post and posted my thoughts.
2. Yup, they totally are, sorry about that.
3. I really like your scum slip right there, where; even though you've been saying I'm lying about my claim all day, you call me 'the neutral survivor'.
4. How is a high post count a good way to avoid getting night killed? (If I misinterpreted the statement 'nice way to avoid getting nk'ed' what are you saying is a nice way to avoid getting night killed?)
5. What specifically doesn't make sense about my play?
6. Where have I tried to dismiss an argument against me by saying that 'this post pisses me off'? I was posting my opinions and also did actual analysis. Which in that instance was 'Doesnt add anything, doesn't ask a question, just calls me stupid for copping ham'
Also, even though I said I think stardust thinks too highly of me, I still responded to his questions.

Paranoia:
If witch lives and I don't get killed n3, do i kayne geet night killed and is there even a day 4? Do I live through that? Do I get killed n3? Or do I kill scum and guarantee a day4 and maybe get night killed?

What do you think of this quote from rezombad, red?

That you could have tried with some actual english if you wanted me to understand it. I'm not a native speaker.
Walk me through it, especially through the "Do I kayne geet NK" part.

Well I typed it on a phone keyboard. I don't remember exactly what I meant to type there.

Solid straw man though

Paranoia:
If witch lives and I don't get killed n3, do i kayne geet night killed and is there even a day 4? Do I live through that? Do I get killed n3? Or do I kill scum and guarantee a day4 and maybe get night killed?

What do you think of this quote from rezombad, red?

I think you think too highly of me

Im gonna read reds day3 and do a pbpa by 9 tonight.

I'm also gonna reread our interactions and post about them.

I'm a neutral cop.
You're town.
Ham is town.

Pie
Occam's razor
Buzzwords

I stand by my early day3 criticisms for the most part.

Also, I didnt say 'shut up and get hung', I said 'Either vote witch, or do the read you've been talking about doing since day 2, or shut up and get hung.'

dont be out of contexting me.

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No twilight means that he's been killed through a daylight vig - otherwise he would have died at the beginning of the new day like rialnann, I think.

post 1. modgaming. meh

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Alive people (no real order, just copypasted from the first post):
Rez, Ham, Stardust, Red, RCW, Witchhunt.

We know that ham is town, and that scum's got a Roleblocker otherwise the bomb thing makes no sense.
Is being bulletproof roleblockable as well?

pedit: Do we really want to know who shot Jamie?
I mean, I don't think having a SK AND scum having an extra dayshot would be balanced, and if they've really got a roleblocker how would the roles interact?

post 2. modagming. meh.

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Alive people (no real order, just copypasted from the first post):
Rez, Ham, Stardust, Red, RCW, Witchhunt.

We know that ham is town, and that scum's got a Roleblocker otherwise the bomb thing makes no sense.
Is being bulletproof roleblockable as well?

pedit: Do we really want to know who shot Jamie?
I mean, I don't think having a SK AND scum having an extra dayshot would be balanced, and if they've really got a roleblocker how would the roles interact?

post 3. some more setupgaming. a whole lot of IIOA occuring.

... then a bunch of things happen with me wanting to lynch stardust
... then witchhunt agrees with starust that im scummy, but after rereading the (410 post) thread in 3 minutes decides he doesnt like that idea.

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Quick question for you rezmo: do you believe raspy's claim?

post 4. thats a question, lets see if he follows up.

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I've misread your case, that question is completely irrelevant.

I can give you a response on why I would have rather preferred if raspy had waited before claiming if you want, but I'd rather prefer to read what Stardust is going to reply about your case.

post 5. that question sure was irrelevant. 'Now let's lurk a while and let you and stardust fight.'

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I've misread your case, that question is completely irrelevant.

I can give you a response on why I would have rather preferred if raspy had waited before claiming if you want, but I'd rather prefer to read what Stardust is going to reply about your case.

Why do you want to wait for stardust? He explained why he thought the vig shouldn't claim, you should too.

I wanted to have some content before the claim for two reasons:
- scum knows the alignment, of every player, having them try to force a case (we're in mid/late game now, they can't just try to lurk their way to the next day) that could be easily debunked by a semi-verifiable claim could be difficult to handle for them;
- we also had the choice of no lynching in order to try to break parity, but with doing so right now would be senseless as they'd probably just NK raspy now.

post 6. emphasis added. spooky that he brought up no lynch and rcw nk at the same time completely without provocation.

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Stardust, why did you think you'd be a lynch candidate for today? Also, are you saying you think rezombad is scum?

Because you guys talk about lynching me even if I do catch scum. Since I failed so spectacularly Day 2, I'm feeling a bit of pressure to perform today.

rezombad is the main one I'll be looking into when I reread. For sure his actions Day 2 are pinging me, and based on that alone I suspect he's scum. We're down short enough now that POE is pretty powerful with our two mostly-confirmed townies, so the only possibilities from my POV are rezmo, WitchHunt and RedNihilist. I need to remember why I think Red is town, but yeah, I think rezombad is the most likely to be scum of those three. Need to confirm that though.

Stardust, what made you go entirely from RezmoRaspy scum team to Raspy being mostly confirmed town in such short notice?

Vote WitchHunt

post 7.
I added witchhunts post in there too because they were sequential.
Notice there has been no interaction with witch so far, only me and stardust.

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With nobody counterclaiming raspy I consider him confirmed town, as I don't expect this setup to be unbalanced to the point of having a neutral aligned sk AND a scumteam that can daykill.

That means that we've got two confirmed town out of 6 alive players, so there are two scum llayers between you, rezmo and Stardust.

Now, I don't really like Stardust's attitude in saying that sooner or later we're going to lynch him because *random rant*, but he's being consistent with other games so whatever.

Rezmo on the other side has taken a strong stance against him since day 1 and he's keeping it up a little too much to be just trying to distance/bus his scum partner, so I guess he's either onto something or he's scum trying to get rid of the most dangerous townfolk.

Either way I'm pretty sure that this is too big to just be some sort of clever, over the top ruse from the two of them as scum partners in order to clear at least one of the two, and since we're in MyLo I assure you I don't want to flip a coin to choose which one of the two I'm willing to hang.

I guess I'll just hang you, since the PoE points you out as scum.

post 8. red is sure that witchhunt is scum because, with no real reasoning, he is sure that either me or stardust are scum but not both, so witchhunt must be scum. k cool, lets see what else happens.

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By that PoE you're getting marked as much scum as me. I have the same thoughts dwelling in my head as everyone else at this point, If Ham and Raspy are the most confirmed town, Red, Stardust, or Rezombad should have a pair of scum between the two. I will agree to the point that between Stardust and Rezombad, one of them is town. Between the two, Rezombad's entire case on Stardust feels more like a huge "Hail Mary" to me. A lot of the points he tries to bring up are far too forced in my opinion. End of the game, brings out a huge case that differs from his usual lurky style, tries to point out he doesn't see how it's MYLO, which means by my personal PoE scum team is RezombadRedNihilist. His content puts me off like crazy however as opposed to your standard deduction. He's coming off as desperate to me, so I'll come back to you tomorrow.

Vote: Rezombad

Aside 1: witchhunt calls red scum and then goes ahead and votes me anyway.

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Someone with more mafia theory than me: is it possible scum have a JOAT?

What kind of question is this?

Post 9. rcw's post added for posterity. Let's see if he follows up with this...

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What kind of question is this?

WitchHunt claimed he was JOAT. WitchHunt is posting scummy things. I'm wondering if WitchHunt could be telling us the truth with his role claim but also be scum alignment.

Please explain me how you can even think that he can be scam while telling the truth. This is just senseless.

Post 10. I don't even see the point of this post. It's like he's trying to belittle rcw into not asking questions about witchhunts role, while at the same time continuing to vote for witchhunt.

*post 11 will not be included because it just fixes a typo. post 12 will be labeled as post 11 and so on until we end day 3*

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We needed a cop to tell us that ham was town.
This game is truly stellar.

Post 11. This post just pisses me off. Doesnt add anything, doesn't ask a question, just calls me stupid for copping ham.

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Red, I'm pretty sure you and I are the only two who haven't claimed. What do you think of a mass claim at this point?

I guess it's fine by me, but I'm just a Vanilla Townie so you're not really getting much by me.
What about you?

Post 12. Ignoring witchhunt's claim completely, goes ahead and claims vt at the first mention of a mass claim.

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Oh damn, that's when you just say, "No, I don't think we'll get much info from that." I was hoping your role might be a piece to a puzzle when I asked that, but I now believe that WitchHunt is caught scum so I will not be claiming until tomorrow.

Can you explain me this, please?
I mean, I don't really care if you claim or not, just explain why you suddenly go from "let's claim!" to "no, this is suddenly complicated!"

Post 13. double language, doesnt care if stardust claims, but wants him to claim. Still completely ignoring witchhunt.

...witchhunt will not be mod killed

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Thanks for reading my brief summary.

Day 3 posts:
Rednihilist: 13 (not counting the one spellng correction)
Stardust: 21 ( some of them extremely long)
rez: 30 (not counting corrections and the like)
ham: <10

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I know I said I'd do a few more things, so let's see what else an hapen before bed.

Where's Red? I want to get his opinion on all this.

I'm having trouble with that reasoning, Red.

From your POV, I see the following assumptions at the start of D4:

1. Ham is town (you've stated this several times)
2. You are town
3. Rez's results are invalid

To assume that rez's results are invalid, there must be something wrong with the statement "ham is town, Stardust is town".

Since you assume ham is town, your only point of contention that I can see is "Stardust is town".

If you don't believe that Stardust is town, why vote rez? Why not vote Stardust?

Occam's razor stardust.

Either I'm a cop with 2 town results.

Or

I'm some kind of badass mafia guy who, instead of winning day3, immediately bussed my partner after his claim... When he botched the cop part specifically

If I were scum, why would I bus witch hunt if we were in mlyl?

Also why would my method of doing that be a counterclaim on the cop part of his boat claim?

If I'm not what I say I am, then why would I say I am?

Witchhunt and dechs had investigative roles as well.

So your case for me being scum is that... I copped ham night 2...

Is that all?

@hammy, that makes sense too. Pretty much makes rezmo out to be town based just on the fact that he's the only investigative role.

Because I totally was like 'oh man, with the SK gone, the scum could totally gambit, use their bulletproof to get town creds and ride that to the end'.

unvote red

I control this game now.

3 options.

1. You lynch me, scum win.

2. You lynch red, town wins with me.

3. Red decides that he wants to win with me and we both vote no lynch, he kills a townie tonight and then we lynch the other townie together day 5.

I'm a neutral survivor cop.

I work with both sides.

Also option 4 is stardust is scum, but it works the same.

Did Red ever claim his abilities? I only see flavor.

I'm ready to vote Red, but my paranoia wants to entertain the possibility of Stardust being scum with a passive ability to return fake results to cops. It's an alternative explanation for his doc ability failing twice and rez getting a town result.

I guess there's no way of knowing, so it comes down to a weighted coin flip.

There's nothing wrong with a single vanilla town. Some mods actually aim to have exactly one vanilla townie just to introduce some WIFOM while leaving vanilla a safe claim for scum. It's much much more strange to not see any information roles in a game.

I am not setting you up. I'm also not blindly accepting anything. I knew for a fact that I wouldn't be the nightkill, so I actually did a lot of work on this game last Night. Even before this day shook out, I was at about 75% sure you were the last scum. I'm not as close to 100% as I might like, but I have nothing else to do. I've done the work, I've read as much as possible following WitchHunt's flip, and no new information has come out this Day to change any of that.

You're right that rezmo has played a lousy town game, looking in particular at his choice to cop ham and his bizarre attacks on me Day 3. In my rundown of all three of you yesterday I also mentioned his interactions with Jamie, but rereading that, it actually looked okay - I can pin a townie motive to asking those questions. The cop and the Stardust hate boil down to paranoia, something that town rezmo has shown in spades in multiple games. If he is town, he hasn't played great, but that's not a reason to lynch him. Everything else he's done has felt townie.

You, on the other hand, are a town read for entirely different reasons. Nothing you've done has looked scummy (other than possibly your interactions with the DK wagon), and everything you've posted has felt townie without actually looking townie, if that makes sense. This is exactly what you're best at. I've played with you as scum twice before. In Fire and Ice you had me fooled completely (and I played an awful game overall) and in WePick the only reason I caught you is your interactions with Kaze combined with your claim (that was forced out of you due to Wraith's interactions Night 1). There is absolutely no way I would have caught you if that had been a pure vanilla game. The fact is, I cannot trust your behaviour alone to give me the right result. That doesn't mean I'll lynch you always and forever, but since POE leaves you and only you, you're the lynch this time.

I am not so confident in my modgaming that I'm moving ahead without reason. I'm confident enough in my mod gaming given the complete lack of other evidence and known history of what you (and rezmo) are capable of. If I'm wrong (and there certainly is that chance here), then I apologize, but I don't think I'm going to change my mind at this point. You're the better bet.

@rezombad, that makes sense. Whoever the last scum is clearly has some cool powers aside from Godfather.

@hammy, that makes sense too. Pretty much makes rezmo out to be town based just on the fact that he's the only investigative role.

I'm not sure I'm following you here.
I mean, I get your general idea of keeping rezombad alive in order to enlarge the mislynch pool, but in that scenario I think I'd rather avoid being caught as scum.

But you wouldn't be caught since rezmo could be scum himself. A scum rezmo has two options - fake a town result on someone and try to get the other lynched, or fake a scum result on someone and try to get them lynched.

Here's what I wrote to imopen last night. Maybe that'll make things more clear.

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So... maybe this isn't so easy. I was thinking what I would do in Red's shoes, and I think he'll kill rezombad because no matter which of us rezombad cops, Red's the likely lynch. I don't think killing rezombad would make sense for scum in my position, but I also don't think everyone will see it that way. I've reread and am at maybe 75% certainty that Red's the last scum, based primarily on modgaming the fact that rezmo is the only claimed investigative role. If I protect rcw and rezmo dies, will I be lynched? If I protect rezmo and rcw dies, will my doctor claim have any credibility at all?



I guess I should really ask myself whether I can beat Red one on one. I think I probably can? He probably thinks I could too, so maybe wouldn't even target rezombad, hoping the cop shot will be taken as WIFOM (as it probably should be, all else being equal).

I also need to factor in the fact that saving someone's life here means we get an extra lynch. That's a big deal, so picking correctly is very important, especially since that likely clears me as town. I wouldn't withhold my kill to gain town cred if it meant giving the town an extra lynch.

Red is scum: If I target rezombad and save him, we win, for sure, no question. If I target rezombad and rcw dies... rezombad's cop shot hopefully wins the day. If I target rcw and rezmo dies, it's a coin flip between me and Red, and if I target rcw and save him, we win for sure.

rezmo is scum: If I target rezombad, rcw dies, and rezombad's cop shot probably wins him the game one way or the other - if he's smart he'll clear someone as town. If I target rcw I for sure save him, giving us two lynches. Lynch rezombad's target, then lynch rezombad would be the right play then, guaranteeing us the win.

So targeting rezombad either guarantees us the win or probably makes us lose. Targeting rcw either guarantees us the win or gets us a coin flip. There's also the fact that rezmo is guaranteed to target rcw, while Red is maybe 50/50, so there's overall a higher chance that he's the target.

tl;dr: Nothing changes. I'm protecting rcw.

So you're telling me that you've failed while not being roleblocked?

I didn't fail. The people I was protecting just happened to die despite my best intentions! Apparently due to exploding bullets. No clue how they survived killing kpaca, but I'm glad kpaca's bomb ability didn't kill everyone who was targeting him that Day (which I've seen before). That's why I asked imopen about kpaca's role details yesterday, because I wanted to know if the scum were protected or if kpaca's bomb was shut down.

I think I'm pretty much ready to vote RedNihilist. He's shown multiple times now that he's extremely good at dodging my scumdar. I've got a town read on both the possibilities, and rezmo has his claim to help him out. I think that's all I need. If this makes rezmo win, he's played a great game and deserves it. Unless I'm right, I guess, in which case townrezmo didn't do that great a job after all.

Vote RedNihilist.