Dies to Removal

I jailed Manders N1

You just can't keep your hands off me.

But seriously, was that because you didn't trust me or because you did and wanted to protect me?

I thought you were the most obvious town and I was looking to prevent a NK.

I went for the RB on Manders N1 as I thought she had crumbed Watcher. Being the most active of the group had we been able to mislynch Red and get to N2 she probably would have been the kill with a RB on rez. Past that I have no idea how it would have played out. I felt we were pretty solid going into D2 with 3 town already dead but unfortunately both of my partners dissipated (as did half the players here)

Manders, you always think I'm scum cuz of how I play lol. Gunna bite you one of these days hehe.

I jailed Manders N1

I've decided to go for Self-aligned + Cop because I seem to be unable to win as non-scum.
This game wasn't any different, even if activity didn't collapse you guys would have just killed me and we'd have ended up losing.
Did I misplay that badly or am I just cursed?

Stardust, were you revealing MJ's scumminess in your first post or not?

Inquiring minds are DYING to know.

Yeah, no. You were dead on with my motivations and later checking of Huntzilla. The hell you guys thinking assuming I used it before getting any info at all. C'mon now.

Scumbag will be replacing MoJo.

vote Scumbag because he's a scum.

So, what do we do now to push forward the next actions ?

I'm still not sold on Rednihilist being town and even if I understand how he's playing that is not convincing me.

Red, did you know beforehand that I targeted you when you used your "skill" ?

Scumbag will be replacing MoJo.

QR_BBPOST RedNihilist - Targeted Stardust and knows Pedrobear targeted Stardust, but hasn't claimed how

Wrong.

I targeted Stardust but my role can't kill anybody, so I can't be the only one having done so.
Since Pedro correctly claimed that I had targeted Stardust, he's either pulling off a masterful bluff or he is a Tracker that targeted me ~ had he been a Watcher that targeted Stardust, he would have had other positives.

It's 00.58 here so forgive me if I've messed up too badly with my verbs :\

Nice rolehunting btw.
Why don't you just propose a mass claim while you're at it?
Do you need a good target for Night 2?

Yes, you are misinterpreting.
Now come up with a good reason to investigate him or let him be, he's confirmed town.
If you think I'm throwing myself under the bus to save him you can just investigate him tomorrow.

Red's reaction appears town to me, but I don't like his refusal to provide any details.

Manders: It's too early to think about what?

Yes, or else I wouldn't have charged him for killing Stardust.

So now, else he can claim a town power role with strong arguments or he is scum.

That's how all my though process is founded on.

Ha. Nice.

unvote

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=295589#p295589]hamfactorial » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:02 am[/url
What's your strong case on Red?

I don't know why Stardust would have used his 8 ball ability on a random player in the opening posts of a new game. He's not around to explain himself, but I've seen his role PM and it lines up with the flavor that he used in the MoJo vote. It's all I have to go on from him, so I'm looking at the available evidence.

Whenever I've received a mafia ability with a caveat or restriction, the mod has included it in my role PM. If our mod designed and balanced the game such that Stardust's role as written is possible and balanced, who are we to question it? The original sign-up thread said that there was a non-zero chance of the setup being bastard. My worry is that the scum team is very powerful, given Stardust and GR's role PMs. Why not give scum a double vote as a way to blend in?

Stupid "Submit" button!

Pedro, explain the post quoted above.

Ham, mind giving me your general idea on this situation?

I'm not sure why Manders and Tordeck are so against a MoJo vote. Stardust singling him out with an 8ball ability strikes me as the explanation that doesn't require any ridiculous WIFOM.

I'm not a great mafia player, so I try to stick with simple explanations and reasons for my voting. Thus I believe Stardust got an answer that caused him to vote MoJo. Stardust was town, so his motivation (a town victory) is the same as mine, so I'll go with that until someone else gives me a more compelling reason to switch my vote.

That was irresponsible. I forgot about the double vote.

Hunter, time for you to claim. Actually, delay that for a minute. Need to check something.

Claim in your next post Hunt.

Oh yeah, do that. I checked what I needed to check and it checked out.

Are you scum or just stupid?
We absolutely have evidence that kpaca is scum

@ Dechs Kaison: I'd like you to consider replacing MoJo, maybe Tordeck (if he can't get RL under control soon) with the dead players. Since they were Town, it wouldn't compromise the integrity of the game unless you've told them something since they died.

Sorry, not an option at this point.

Update on the home front - I move this coming week so its going to be a bit hectic, but by next wknd things should be settled down and I can rededicate time to this game.

Now on to the game it self.

From the looks of it and the D1 interactions I am going to guess that it was GR who shot Star and in turn the scum got GR.

Putting this here for later. Feel free to analyze it yourself.

GR’s Posts

---

Oh yes, vote Stardust

I thought Huntz had ended RVS there.

Vote MJ, I am not a fan of mod votes

*shakes his Magic 8-ball*

"It is certain."

Okay then.

Vote Mogadishu Jones.

This Page 1 wagon is high quality. Vote Manders.

Why are you voting like that?

Unvote

Stardust is asking for a lynch (both with his posting and literally) and that makes me suspicious of voting for him.

Stardust is asking for a lynch (both with his posting and literally) and that makes me suspicious of voting for him.

Why?

In this weird a game, IDK what creative role my favorite mafia mod came up with. His unorthodox behavior makes me want to vote him, but it's evident that that's exactly what he wants, so I feel I'm being played. Don't really like it.

QR_BBPOST ( G_R ) - His interactions are strictly Stardust-based up to now, and he seems to have disappeared lately.

Work and stuff. I'm here.

QR_BBPOST Stardust - Very silly start.

Inorite? Before that all we had was RSV and some non-things too look at.

QR_BBPOST MoJo - for the moment I refuse to believe that scum would be given a double voting role.

For the moment? How about a third faction, would they be given double votes?

QR_BBPOST RedNihilist - Hi, handsome.

I've reread the thread...

We need more Pedro.

I'm OK with a Huntz lynch.

His vote, his modgaming, and also that his explanations aren't convincing me. There's not much from the rest of the players, save for Stardust who I won't vote for D1.

I held my vote because I reread the post where he was saying he'd "kill" kpaca, but then I remembered that the first time that didn't triggered the same alarm because he was replying to your "who would you kill?" question, just not quoting it. So it wasn't really a slip. I'm not convinced of his towniness at all but I still need to see more before putting him on the scum column. However, I'd be fine with his lynch if it comes to that, being D1 and all.

Ah the good old "you don't understand, I'm just a misunderstood newbie" argument. I did that on my first two games as scum, except I used a language barrier approach.

Vote Huntzilla

Let's take a look at your questions, I'll even answer some:

1. When did you start playing mafia?
About 3-4 years ago. Wow.

2. Where was your home site when you started?
Ugly Sally's mod lounge

3. Who do you feel is the best analyst in this game?
Looks like a poll for the best NK

4. Who do you feel is the best scum player in the game, or who would you be afraid of as scum in this game?
A poll for a mislynch.

5. Are you yourself better as town or scum?
Are you serious?

6. What is your favorite alignment to roll?
See above.

7. What game was your best performance?
Inter-clan game when The Gang was not banned yet. My last have wasn't so bad.

*last game

You vote me for the questions yet you still answer them, albeit a little snarky?

Interesting

Wrong. I voted you for your answers to your own questions, and also for the questions I didn't really answer. Your use of "interesting" in the post (implying something but not really saying anything) is... interesting.

QR_BBPOST But what I was thinking was why bother answering at all if you didn't like the idea. Of the questions are that bad, why put forth the effort to still even partially comply? Didn't make sense.

Questions 1, 2 and 7 are legit meta questions. The rest are not.

QR_BBPOST You can't act that hypocritical without expecting to be called into question for it. So why was the interesting, interesting...?

Read the post where my vote is. Now one more time. Now read the post where I said why your use of interesting was interesting. Now one more time.

QR_BBPOST Hey Dechs. What's "the HOA"?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hoa

Hmm... I didn't get my alignment of choice, only the role. Did anyone else get both?

It doesn't matter whether or not others got both. It's explicitly possible from the OP, so no question there.

Hunter, why do you say that I'm specifically letting Pedro skate by? I don't recall you asking him anything this game either.

OK then.

Hey Huntz, here's our predicament: We can only know if you're telling the truth after you flip. If you're town and scum believes you, you'll never be the NK. You'd have to convince us of your towniness every day or get lynched at some point. And if there's someone with a vig shot who doesn't believe you we might start D2 with -3 townies or 4 if someone else was mislynched instead. Or you're lying scum and we should lynch you, better sooner than later.

I believe the latter to be the case, and even if I'm wrong, it will be more useful to town than keeping you alive.

Stardust's Posts

---

Vote MJ, I am not a fan of mod votes

*shakes his Magic 8-ball*

"It is certain."

Okay then.

Vote Mogadishu Jones.

This Page 1 wagon is high quality. Vote Manders.

Why am I voting like wagons? Because wagons are more fun than not-wagons. Plus Manders is actually scum.

Oh, huh, I missed Pedrobear's vote. I guess that puts Manders at L-2. That's cool.

Not even just a little claim?

Wagon me timbers!

Unvote.

I don't mind getting voted, but I don't want to get lynched. I'm not a jester or anything dumb like that.

Vote Mojo.

That might change to Hunter depending on his response to Manders.

Heh, what do you mean? I've never been much for early Day 1 analysis. I'll get on it soon enough.

Vote Mojo.

Elaborate

What we need right now is participation and I don't have a better lead. Need to put some work into that, though.

Nothing, really. Single post, mod vote, whatever. He's been onsite, but not posting here. Thought my vote might motivate him, assuming he's reading.

kpaca is immune to prods. Prods also get less info into the thread.

Wagons? Choices? Reactions? This discussion right here?

Nothing in particular. Pretty much what I listed above.

Nothing in particular. Pretty much what I listed above.

You were hoping to get a wagon going on kpaca with one naked vote?

I dont understand your thought process here stardust.

Hunter was voting him too. It's not that I was trying to get a wagon going on kpaca. The image of there being a wagon gives information on choices that other players make. Do they join the kpaca wagon? Do they vote somewhere else? Do they question my vote, or do they ignore it? All that stuff makes a vote on kpaca more valuable than a simple unvote.

Also, hunt responded to manders.

I know. I don't have time right now to get into that. I haven't even read Manders' big post in detail yet.

So there are 5 people with 1 vote on them and you vote for kpaca.

I didn't know where we sat on the votecount, but Hunter voting for kpaca was meaningful since Hunter himself was under scrutiny. If Manders was correct that Hunter was scum, me making his vote more legitimate does give more information on other players. And, yes, kpaca can't be arsed to do much he doesn't want to do, but he does react to votes as much as the next guy, sometimes in an over-the-top angry kind of way.

What should I have done with my vote instead, in your opinion?

Why?

New pages are haaard...

Stardust is standing out to me at this point

Why?

I should have time to devote to this tomorrow. Have no fear, have no fear, said the cat.

You vote me for the questions yet you still answer them, albeit a little snarky?

Interesting

What do you make of that?

Because it's a good way of pointing out something "interesting" in the hopes that someone else will pick up on it. If they do, great, it looks like you contributed! If not, no harm done. Not like you said it was scummy, right?

tl;dr: It's waffling.

1. rezombad
2. ( G_R )
3. Pedrobear
4. Stardust
5. Manders
6. MoJo
7. Huntzilla
8. Tordeck
9. RedNihilist
10. Ham


Hey Dechs. What's "the HOA"?

Pretty sure Manders is town from page 1.

Too early for claim. I support your decisions Manders.

Hey Hunter, you wrote "decisions" here instead of decision. Were you talking about more than her choice not to claim? What other Manders actions were you supporting?

So, a little modgaming for shits and gigs...

There is most likely 2 scum, 1 "other aligned" alignment, correct? I mean, why have the option for other alignments if he isn't going to choose them. We could do a claim of the alignment people sent to Dechs... Or we could claim the role as well.
What are people feeling? Any claims, no claims, wait a day before we get into bullshit lazy play...?
I'd be willing to go first.

We could also just claim whether we got the full role we submitted or not. Bound to be some of us who did.

You never got much of a response to your call for claims here, Hunter. What do you make of that? Why did you roll over as soon as Manders said no?

I would like Stardust to elaborate on how it is cool that I was put to L-2 so quickly and laughably.

Not like you were going to get lynched. A Page 1 L-2 wagon often leads to some great stuff. I didn't actually want you to claim, for the record. When I mentioned it I wasn't even thinking about you claiming. Though I guess I could have goofed off a little less, calling attention to the fact that you were at L-2 was both to make sure further votes would be held accountable and so that everyone would be aware and react accordingly (hopefully helping to get a read on where they stand).

I did actually miss PedroBear's vote though. That wasn't a lie. If I hadn't, I would have called attention to the L-2 immediately.


Manders' big post. Agree with your assessment of Tordeck and like the questions you asked Hunter and hammy.

Mtgs meta is claim happy right now, wanted to test waters and see where we stood.

Can you explain this? Are people on MTGS routinely claiming stuff Day 1?

Your flat out no statement killed any other reactions I might get because everyone follows you like a bunch of puppies around here.

What makes you say that?

I'd kill Kpaca now that I know it is him. That makes the mod vote that much more worse in my eyes.

Why is a mod vote worse coming from kpaca?


Just because there's crazy stuff in this game: Dechs, can you confirm that this votecount is correct? Specifically the (1) next to kpaca's total. Thanks. (The applies to later votecounts too)

As an aside (since weve run this setup before) no one would have gotten the full role+alignment they asked for.

No, they could have. Dechs is fine to take the role you picked then choose an alignment for you, even if that alignment is the same one you submitted. Says so right in the OP.

I almost never react to votes what are you on? I generally dont believe anyone can lynch me.

Wasn't it a vote on you that started your fight with Dechs in the planechase game?

Wouldnt it have been easier to get people to jump on kpaca(or anyone) with even the flimsiest of accusations?

I don't think so. I mean, yeah, I could have made the kpaca wagon more solid by giving reasons, but I wasn't looking to lynch kpaca. I find naked votes more effective in the early game because it leaves doubt whether or not I'm serious. For some reason certain people around here are terrified to fall into some elaborate trap I'm setting up (that usually doesn't exist). I also don't want to be held accountable for things I don't actually believe, but still want the freedom to weild my vote.

MoJo - for the moment I refuse to believe that scum would be given a double voting role.

For the record, double-voting independant (SK, for example) can be a thing.

Red, from the wording on your Huntzilla section in that same post it seems like you intended to come back to him. Have you got a read on him now?

I asked you about it and I haven't seen a response. How was I under scrutiny when I voted Kpaca? How was under scrutiny at all, unless you are referencing Manders questioning, but then again that is hardly "scrutiny."

Manders' case on you was as solid as anything, and her questions were spot on, so yeah, scrutiny. Regardless, back to the original question, how does any of that make me scum?

Answers to Hunter's questions
1. When did you start playing mafia?
A few years ago. Can't remember without going back to MTGS to check. 2010? 2011?

2. Where was your home site when you started?
MTGS.

3. Who do you feel is the best analyst in this game?
Me. Probably Manders though. kpaca's good too.

4. Who do you feel is the best scum player in the game, or who would you be afraid of as scum in this game?
kpaca, I guess? Red is scary good at dodging my scumdar too.

5. Are you yourself better as town or scum?
About the same, but I prefer playing as town.

6. What is your favorite alignment to roll?
Serial Killer.

7. What game was your best performance?
It would be easier to list games I didn't play well. /ego

Somethings fishy

Oh yeah? What's that?

But what I was thinking was why bother answering at all if you didn't like the idea. Of the questions are that bad, why put forth the effort to still even partially comply? Didn't make sense.

If I'm scum to him why listen to my requests at all?

Did you read his responses? He was essentially pointing out why those questions make you scum.



That was long. Sorry for the duplication.

Oh yeah.

Unvote, Vote Huntzilla.

That was irresponsible. I forgot about the double vote.

Hunter, time for you to claim. Actually, delay that for a minute. Need to check something.

Unvote.

Thanks, Dechs. And the votecount question?

Claim in your next post Hunt.

Oh yeah, do that. I checked what I needed to check and it checked out.

It doesn't matter whether or not others got both. It's explicitly possible from the OP, so no question there.

Hunter, why do you say that I'm specifically letting Pedro skate by? I don't recall you asking him anything this game either.

Hunter, can you point me towards your scum games from MTGS? Strait-up link would be appreciated since I hate navigating that site from my phone.

Ok, sweet, thanks. Meta checks out, Huntzilla is acting out his scum game. I want to quickly answer outstanding questions, then will finish this Day.

Pretty sure Manders is town from page 1.

How'd you come to that conclusion? Why did you participate in getting me to L-2 if you felt this way based on this post?

At the time I didn't think much of you either way, and voted only to get things moving one way or another.

You might laugh at this, but the thing that stands out as most townie in that post I linked is the "IMO". I don't think scum would say the same, in that context.

Feel free to let him answer first if you so choose, but I'd like to know why you deliberately ignored Tordeck's statement of declination when proposing this question to Hunt.

I didn't deliberately ignore it. Not at first, anyway. When I reread, I'm sometimes looking for specific things to tie everything together for one train of thought. Then I go back. In this case, I skimmed Tordeck's post because it talked about his read on you (something I wasn't trying to figure out at the time). Hunter rolled over, I noted it, carried on, then went back. I noticed that I'd made the error after reading Tordeck's full post. I decided not to correct it. My reasoning there was to get links between you, Hunter and Tordeck, primarily from Hunter's response. If he had responded angry at the fact that I forgot Tordeck, I think that would have been a good indication that Tordeck was town. Seems he forgot Tordeck ever said anything, leading me to believe that he did, in fact, roll over just for you which might point at Tordeck being scum buddy. A rather big might there, though. A mighty might? Nevermind.

If you agree those questions make him scum, why did you answer them?

Because they're pretty harmless and I generally want to make this section of the site more welcoming to newcomers, if possible. Getting to know each other while we kill each other can't hurt.

I could see what GR was getting at, and I could see that Hunter missed that entirely. That's all I wanted a response to - the actual accusation GR was making.

Yeah, I guess that's good. As of page 4 my reads were the following:

Manders - Should be town
( G_R ) - Probably town
rezombad - Maybe town
Tordeck - Maybe town
Ham - Maybe town

Pedrobear - No idea
MoJo - No idea

RedNihilist - Maybe scum
Huntzilla - Probably scum

I'm not really a fan of how unclear a potential scum buddy is at this point. Manders and ( G_R ) are my strongest town reads in that respect, but it's pretty up in the air otherwise. Of course, that's based on Hunter flipping scum. I guess we'll see soon enough and can give another run through his posts for interactions.

Vote Huntzilla.

I doubt I'll survive Tonight.

Hey! That's my line!

I really shouldn't play in more than two games at once. I forgot kpaca was a double voter right after using that vote to get the lynch. He's not buddies with anyone.

Vote Counts

---

Prodded Rez and MoJo.

Should I do a votecount?

I should do a votecount.

Votecount 1.1

Dechs Kaison (1): MoJo
Ham (1): RedNihilist
Stardust (1): Ham
Mojo (2): Huntzilla, Stardust
Mandqers(2): Tordeck, Pedrobear
Huntzilla (1): Manders

Not voting: rezombad, ( G_R )

Pretty sure that's right. With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Votecount 1.2

Ham (1): RedNihilist
Stardust (2): Tordeck, Ham
Mojo (2): Huntzilla, Stardust
Manders (1): Pedrobear
Huntzilla (3): Manders, MoJo, MoJo

Not voting: rezombad, ( G_R )

Pretty sure that's right. With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Votecount 1.3

Stardust (2): Tordeck, Ham
Manders (1): Pedrobear
Huntzilla (4): Manders, MoJo, MoJo, (G_R)

Not voting: rezombad, RedNihilist, Huntzilla, Stardust

Pretty sure that's right. With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Votecount 1.4

Stardust (2): Tordeck, Ham
Huntzilla (6): Manders, MoJo, MoJo, (G_R), Pedrobear, Stardust

Not voting: rezombad, RedNihilist, Huntzilla

That's a lynch!

The cul-de-sac had made its choice; Huntzilla was hanged. Everyone was suspicious when they found a revolver on his corpse, but a search of his house laid those suspicions to rest. In every nook and cranny, another pistol had been hidden. Rifles had been tucked away in closets and under beds. There was a shotgun under the kitchen table. The kitchen table for chrissake. If this man had wanted to destroy the town, he could have lead the assault himself. No. Huntzilla was as innocent as his guns. Guns don't kill people. Paranoid cul-de-sacs kill people.

Hunt's PMWelcome to WePick Mafia, Huntzilla.

Your chosen alignment was Town.
Your chosen role was Paranoid Gun Owner.
I chose to use Paranoid Gun Owner.

You are a Town Paranoid Gun Owner. The first night you are targeted, you will kill any and all players that targeted you that night. You win when there are no threats to the town left alive, or nothing can prevent this.

The game thread is here. Please /confirm with your alignment and role via PM.

No more posting!

Day 2 will begin in no less than 72 hours. You have at least that long to get your night actions into me.