Dies to Removal

Tangential question:

Is this a setup that could be run again? Half of the fun (and most of the frustration) was not knowing what the mafia could do. Would running it again later make this setup better or worse? I'm sure there are things Stardust could do to change up the townie list so we wouldn't know which characters to expect.

Yea, so this game really made me mad. The setup was good, and it isn't stardust's fault, but I just felt totally powerless. I made one device, and all it did was fuck the town over. I mean, I did say LMD was scum after I looked at his post history, but I dropped it when I got the scum result on AZ. I'm glad we won, but it was an extremely frustrating last couple day phases.

He'll select two phrases, up to 10 words, from any of our posts.

That's actually a pretty clever ability, especially with getting every one of us to post "I'm town/I'm scum." It is essentially a two shot cop ability.

Hey Imopen, how well did you word it? Like, is it actually a lie detector or is it some sort of actual truth finder with your prophecy specialization?

Example: I say "one of either Rez, Ham, or MoJo is scum." You submit that phrase. Technically, I don't know if the phrase is true, so a lie detector would just tell you "He doesn't know," but a real prophecy machine could tell you whether it was true.

Please tell me you worded it like the latter. That would make this infinitely more fun.

I don't want to get ahead of myself, but I really can't help it.

If you did word it like an actual prophecy machine, we could probably develop two phrases that should definitively tell us who the remaining scum are with true/false values on them.

Brainstorming...
Phrase one: The remaining scum is either Ham, Rez, or LMD.
Phrase two: The remaining scum is either Ham or RedN.

If they're both true, then we hang Ham. If one's true but not the other, it clears Ham and implicates Rez/LMD or confirms RedN depending on which is true. I mean, that covers five of eight remaining players right now. MoJo should shoot one of us today, we'll hang another one, and one should die tonight. That's everybody accounted for. Holy shit, this could solve the game.

I already said it. But yeah, I'm totally scum.

what was the point of posting this?

You saw the request to write "I'm scum." Clearly, because you did it. Well, I already said that in the thread, but to make it easy to find, I said it again.

I already said it. But yeah, I'm totally scum.

I think he made himself bulletproof?

trying to get me killed before I can be useful.

If Az continues with this folly, and looks sufficiently scummy a result, I'll take a bullet to show his actions are scummy.

You're too self-aware for my taste, and the idea that you could have gone from nearly hanged to 100% cleared through that self-vote is appalling.

He should never have been anywhere near being hanged in the first place, the self-vote is just the icing on the "100%
townie" cake.

I have yet to encounter a town player self-voting.

Happens all the time, looks just like this. Contempt for the stupidity of their teammates, wants to prove them wrong, vindicate himself, etc.

Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever self-hammer yourself.

You're right to be mad about the case against you, you're totally wrong to give up.

Dechs' emotions are textbook town frustration. GR's emotions are textbook scum conniving. GR has an actual case against him. DK just has a bunch of behaviors that get newb townies mislynched all the time, and not a scintilla of real evidence linking what he's doing, to a scum objective or scum
mindset.

Frustration, anger, emotion, logic mistakes - these things come townies all the time. If that's what you're looking for in a case, you're going to mislynch townies left and right while the scum laugh all the way to the bank.

I don't really know what else I can say here. If after reading posts from both GR and Dechs, and reading both "cases", most of us can't tell how much of a difference there is between these two people's alignment, then our town's scum compass needs some drastic re-tuning.

quality coaching there.
also i think his "indignation" is suspect.

Because you're misreading my emotions there. It's not indignation, it's closer to fatigue, resignation, dismay.

Yes, I'm coaching the guy I've been reading 100% town how not to lose the game for us by committing suicide. Would you care to explain how that's somehow unexpected/hard to explain?

PPE: I lie all the time as town. I've lied/deceived people in this game, as town. But that's not the kind of lie we're looking for, and neither is harmless banter.

My complaint about Azrael

Let's start this post with a little quiz:

1. Why do Azrael's flunkies want to ingratiate themselves with Azrael?
2. Whatever happened to good sportsmanship?
3. Essay: Compare and contrast Azrael's memoirs to those of neo-stolid bozos, focusing especially on who is more likely to discredit legitimate voices in the authoritarianism debate.

Don't worry; I'll give you all the answers throughout the course of this post as well as a wealth of other information about Azrael. For the sake of review, the point at which you discover that I personally am not ashamed to admit that
Azrael has made a big mistake is not only a moment of disenchantment. It is a moment of resolve, a determination that my long-term goal is to treat the blows of circumstance. Unfortunately, much remains to be done. As you may have noticed, Azrael believes with sincere conviction that his allegations are Holy Writ. Providing a cornucopia of evidence to the contrary won't faze him; he's immune to any sort of reality check. That's why Azrael has certainly never given evidence of thinking extensively. Or at all, for that matter.

Azrael and his groupies are, by nature, nutty, clumsy gutter-dwellers. Not only can that nature not be changed by window-dressing or persiflage, but many people are convinced that Azrael has a hair-trigger temper. I can't comment on that, but I can say that he claims that his ideas prevent smallpox. Predictably, he cites no hard data for that claim. This is because no such data exist. Azrael exhibits the sensitivity of a bulldozer. At the risk of sounding a tad redundant, let me
add that of all of Azrael's exaggerations and incorrect comparisons, one in particular stands out: “Every featherless biped, regardless of intelligence, personal achievement, moral character, sense of responsibility, or sanity, should be given the power to impinge upon our daily lives.” I don't know where he came up with this, but his statement is dead wrong.

Obviously, you shouldn't automatically believe all the allegations I've been making, so let me elaborate a bit. It amazes me how successful Azrael has been at spattering my reputation. History will look back on that unfortunate success with profound regret and wonder why the people of our time didn't do more to fight to the end for our ideas and ideals. Perhaps our answer should be that I'll tell you what we need to do about all the craziness Azrael is mongering. We need to break the spell of great expectations that now binds the most backwards hoodwinkers you'll ever see to Azrael.

While criticizing his critics for enforcing an unstable
orthodoxy, Azrael himself is trying to enforce a particular orthodoxy: the orthodoxy of mumpish hucksterism. Given a choice of having him bury our heritage, our traditions, and our culture or having my bicuspids extracted sans Novocaine, I, for one, would embrace the pliers, purchase some Polident Partials, and call it a day. After hours of sifting through his semi-intelligible writings I finally realized that I appreciate feedback and other people's views on subjects. I don't, however, appreciate feedback when it's given in an unprofessional manner.

High-handed lounge lizards can go right ahead and convict me for saying that Azrael's claims are filled with a number of very clear-cut and blatant lies—lies of both omission and commission—but History, acting as the goddess of a higher truth and a higher justice, will one day smilingly tear up this verdict, acquitting me of all guilt and blame. If it turns out that there's no way to prevent Azrael from undermining the individualistic underpinnings of
traditional jurisprudence then I guess it'll be time to throw my cards on the table and call it quits. I'll just have to give up trying to provide actionable steps people can take to hammer out solutions on the anvil of discourse and accept the fact that if we let him sow the seeds of presenteeism we'll be reaping the crop for quite a long time. Each rung on the ladder of neopaganism is a crisis of some kind. Each crisis supplies an excuse for Azrael to create a one-world government, stripped of nationalistic and regional boundaries, that is obedient to his agenda. That is the standard process by which nugatory philodoxes enact new laws forcing anyone who's not one of Azrael's cultists to live in an environment that can be described, at best, as contemptuously tolerant. He claims to have turned over a new leaf shortly after getting caught trying to exploit public sympathy in order to bolster support for his brutal, rash indiscretions. This claim is an outright lie that is still being circulated by
Azrael's shock troops. The truth is that Azrael contends that principles don't matter and that, therefore, he's inflexibly honest, thoroughly patriotic, and eminently solicitous to promote, in all proper ways, the public good. This bizarre pattern of thinking leads to strange conclusions. For example, it convinces heartless warlords (as distinct from the audacious dumbbells who prefer to chirrup while hopping from cloud to cloud in Nephelococcygia) that Azrael has achieved sainthood. In reality, contrariwise, Azrael says he's going to give voice, in a totally emotional and non-rational way, to his deep-rooted love of materialism sooner or later. Good old Azrael. He just loves to open his mouth and let all kinds of things come out without listening to how brazen they sound. Now that you've read the bulk of this letter, it should not come as a surprise that Azrael bandies about the word “heterochromatization” with such ponderous self-importance that his tuft-hunters can't help but think that granting
Azrael complete control over our lives is as important as breathing air. However, this fact bears repeating again and again, until the words crack through the hardened exteriors of those who would belittle all fine social standards. I am referring, of course, to the likes of Azrael.

You can TELL the true GR. He RANTS! Or not. GR waits with a GRIN for Ragnarok and meanwhile knows he'll have Habafropzipulops, the Herb of the Gods and watch from the Saucers as the fullblood humans BURN! Now ARISE! I'm here to tell you, GR says OR KILL ME! GR has no NEED to be "cool," but knows the world OWES him Slack! SOLAR FLARES are coming! Hails of FIRE! Rains of PRAIRIE SQUID! When you EXPECT nothing, you GET nothing, and the NON-mutated losers exist ONLY to rob the Earth of its Slack! They serve, some KNOWINGLY but most as mere dupes, the Illuminati, and live only to WORK and DIE and STEAL YOUR SLACK! As Dobbs said, we must not FORGIVE them, because they KNOW what they're doing! The
malicious Group Mind we call Yacatisma cannot, yet MUST BE resisted! Whatever survives stands between you and a lifetime supply of "Bob's" PILLS! Yes, and a lifetime supply of "Bob's" PILS! It is MADNESS and, worse, BOREDOM! Forever!

You're too self-aware for my taste, and the idea that you could have gone from nearly hanged to 100% cleared through that self-vote is appalling.

He should never have been anywhere near being hanged in the first place, the self-vote is just the icing on the "100% townie" cake.

Morons. All of you.

Now vote GR, damn it. I'll even give you reasons:

1. He's scum (see the multiple cases against).
2. No one else is getting hung before deadline.

The great question for me is should we kill GR today, let scum do it tonight, or let MoJo do it tomorrow? I doubt he's living until endgame with a claim like that, so which option gives is the best information tomorrow?

I think letting him live and seeing if MoJo vigs him is the best option. Now that Dechs is town beyond reason, I don't know who else could get 5 votes today. I'll vote GR before I let a NL happen, but I don't like it.

So, I need to go back to voting GR.

Vote GR

Hey Az. Can you explain to me the hole in the logic of hammering myself? Let's assume that I had the vote counts right and that I believed Imopen was going to vote me at his first opportunity anyway. Why was I wrong to vote myself and shrink the suspect pool?

I'm not sure whether you're arguing that the suspect pool would be shrunk bc we're only looking at the people on your wagon then, or b/c there would be one fewer player alive, but either way, I'd much rather have a huge suspect pool than have the mafia
one step closer to winning.

Large numbers of townies relative to the mafia is what we're aiming for. And just b/c someone didn't vote you, doesn't mean they're not a suspect. Just b/c someone did vote, doesn't mean they're a suspect either.

We're not looking for mistakes. We're looking for lies.

Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever self-hammer yourself.

You're right to be mad about the case against you, you're totally wrong to give up.

Dechs' emotions are textbook town frustration. GR's emotions are textbook scum conniving. GR has an actual case against him. DK just has a bunch of behaviors that get newb townies mislynched all the time, and not a scintilla of real evidence linking what he's doing, to a scum objective or scum mindset.

Frustration, anger, emotion, logic mistakes - these things come townies all the time. If that's what you're looking for in a case, you're going to mislynch townies left and right while the scum laugh all the way to the bank.

I don't really know what else I can say here. If after reading posts from both GR
and Dechs, and reading both "cases", most of us can't tell how much of a difference there is between these two people's alignment, then our town's scum compass needs some drastic re-tuning.

Who hammers a player can give the town valuable information. You have denied that to us.

Anyways, I read all the posts in the last couple pages, and I've gotta say that the case against G_R isn't bad. A lot of it is behavioral, and it forces is to trust Az (which none of us want to do), but it may be the best case yet put forth.

I agree that DK seems suspicious, mostly due to his inability to accept a simple vote on him (that's how I acted in my first scum game).

I think red asked me a question but idk what it was. He seems
to have reacted pretty well to the pressure and not flailed or threatened to quit (a la DK).

For now I'd be pretty comfortable with a G_R or DK lynch.

I'm OK with a DK lynch after rez brought the Gone Postal sarcasm hand-waive back up.

You're all morons. Except GR and Az, of course. GR made a fantastic "case" against me that fooled morons. OK, so he's not great or anything, but at least he didn't fall for the scam.

If I count right, I'm at L-1. Good news is that scum's already on my wagon. Bad news is that I already made my claim so it's not like I can do anything about this wagon.

I guess I'm just going to put my final thoughts out there:

GR is flailing and is giddy as shit because he convinced everyone I'm scum.
Rez is either the most stupid town player ever or a halfway decent scum player.
LMD and Ham are idiots for believing the above.
Imopen is just as bad because he's willing to hang me.

That's it.

#yodo


vote Dechs Kaison

There. Now we know scum's already on my wagon and you've only got four names to sift through instead of five.

Hang GR tomorrow.

Have fun guys.