Dies to Removal

Iso, stardust, void, Tubehunter - town

Slowpoke & kaze - scum

Others - null

No more time than that

Reasoning for Iso, Void and TubeHunter town reads? All three of those are out of the blue. I also find a townr read on them difficult to believe based on their content so far.

Also, why do you think TubeHunter balked at hammering you after this post?

Lets just lynch imopen, he's the strongest scumread and the day has
dragged on far too long for my liking.

Vote: Imopen

He's quite sure you're scum... so why is he suddenly so sure about the double mislynch? I don't see the town mindset in this post.

Then there's this response to your soft-claim:

this sounds interesting

Which is a pretty scummy response.

So you're definitely going to need to flesh that one out.

I threw void and tubehunter in there so you guys could analyze people's reactions after I was dead. unfortunately, only about 5 people seem to care about this game. at least we know stardust is town

actual list looks more like:

iso, stardust, rezombad - town

tubehunter, slowpoke - scum

nkaze - still leaning scum but I think he is just town that can't stop tunneling me in every game we've been in together (he probably feels the same way about me re: tunneling since I think I have attempted to case him in all of my games)

void needs to post more

wheat seems like he hasn't put much thought into this game

captain needs to post more. hopefully he is alive

the rest: null

Iso, stardust, void, Tubehunter - town

Slowpoke & kaze - scum

Others - null

No more time than that

wait if imopen really wants us to believe he is town then he should hammer himself, no?

But I know I'm town so why would I hammer myself? I have no idea who you all are so I'd prefer to take a scum out with me.

If I'm not dead tomorrow I'll do that

Sorry guys

Ok. Lynch me if you have to. I wish slowpoke would do the honors tho

you really don't want to be the one who lynches me btw

Are you claiming?

Yes.

I am Condoms, Town Grudge-holder
I am a guttermod, and I hate shit-posters.
If I would be lynched, I ban the poster who hammered me.

you really don't want to be the one who lynches me btw

yea I guess both of the example pms in post #1 have one line of flavor

I have flavor in my pm as well. also only one line...idk how I feel about the adding it later part.

You and your never voting on a new line.

sorry, daddy

vote Slowpoke

I feel like it's time to put some pressure on him - that should bring the guy to L-3 if I'm still able to count properly.

You're not able to count properly. that puts him at l-4

no, I voted him so in my catchup post so that is 4 votes. unfortunately I haven't gotten any time today to finish my reread =/

Don't bother, I remember that post. You seriously have an issue discerning the difference between a wagon and just votes on a player, don't you?

A wagon isn't a wagon unless it has direction. It has to be going somewhere. It has to have direction, intent, and people actively pushing it. Bandwagons are made for lynching, claiming, pressuring, getting reactions and the like. Can you really look at the two votes on rezombad on page one and tell me honestly that it fits the aforementioned criteria?

Regardless of your answer, the correct answer is no and that's that.

Now I must restate, what is your point?

Yea, I'm not that good at mafia yet, but to me, when wheat said it was a "serious vote" on Rezombad, he formed a wagon
on him. I don't know how a wagon is supposed to have "direction" but it seems like there was intent and someone pushing it. The iso wagon did form rather soon after so I guess it's not a big deal. The point was I did a reread and marked down things of interest that I saw.

There were a grand total of two votes on rezombad page one, then Iso happened. He was the only wagon when I came on the scene.

Even if that weren't the case I'm lost as to what your point is.

In the morning I will go find your post where you told me it doesn't matter how many posts there are in a wagon.

The point is that you had two wagons to choose from and you chose iso's.

Fuck your questions. Rezombad was never a wagon.

I think if you look back you will see he was

Here, let me rephrase:

You and Slowpoke are scumbffs cross-bussing.

so you read my post twice but didn't answer my question to you. try again

I like how imopen has switched from trying not to alienate anyone to overtly discrediting everyone who is accusing him. That's the way to town it up, for sure.

I'll let you actually read my post and then you can try this again

Not that I'm opposed to it because I'll never understand Iso's opening posts, but does someone want to explain why that's a scumslip?

So here you don't understand the votes on iso?...but then you vote him anyways? This is terrible.

@kaze, stardust and slowpoke: why did you blindly vote iso without knowledge of how it was a slip?

I didn't care about that scumslip nonsense. I just hopped on the
wagon because it was there.

I still hate this mentality.

That was in response to rezombad. Didn't see the second page.

To answer Captain, I voted Iso because the way he tried to format "town" is not the same as is written in my role PM. Weak, but good enough to generate a discussion and a decent wagon to analyze. I assumed that was the slip rezombad was talking about.

More importantly, what "knowledge" do you have that I don't?

I didn't know how it was a slip, so I didn't vote. I was waiting to see how it was a slip and I still don't see the reason for the 4 votes to be placed.

nThis This This. I don't see the town motivation in voting before thinking like Slowpoke did.

It wasn't a random wagon, it was the first wagon. And you don't need reasoning in RVS.

You're being obtuse on purpose.

Unvote: Iso

Vote: Captain Murphy

I would say the first wagon was on Rezombad, no? Why didn't you vote him?

My brain hurts already.
So, we're 12, how much scum are we supposed to face?
Also, right now lynching is at 7 votes, right?

Well this is a pretty useless post...

Iso said that it was a joke (which may or may not be true), and I may or may not have voted Iso as a joke.

@rezombad: Are you so self-absorbed to think that I blindly followed you? Doesn't the fact that I asked a question mean that I did NOT blindly follow you?

@Captain Murphy: Are you also unable to read posts? lurk moar then ask questions that make sense. I did not blindly vote Iso.

@Stardust: Iso knew that his formatting did not match the PMs, due to the SAMPLE ROLE PMs in the OP. It wasn't a real slip, Iso (as always) knew exaclty what he was doing.

@Kaze: Did you also not read the OP? Iso bolded "Town" when they are not bolded in the PMs.

Unvote.

Vote: Kaze

Ok so now you aren't sure if iso's "slip" was a joke...
but you have knowledge of iso's intentions...and you voted for a reason?

Random thought here, but from reading Kazekirimaru's posts it feels like he's not really trying to analyze the reactions to the RVS wagon at all, just more like.. caring about defending himself. He belittles Captain Murphy for voting him and does some more defense stuff. He then complains about differentiating metas, and still no analyzing his votes on the wagon or analyzing the reactions to his vote on Iso.

This is a fair assessment. I switched gears from RVS wagons & such to my own wagon because of how hard and blatantly Captain and Rezombad were pushing it.

nSo you voted for the rvs wagon in order to get out of rvs and have something to analyze, but instead of analyzing it you switched to defending yourself when you didn't even know the votecount? (earlier you were surprised that you were at L-2).

Stardust's vote probably was not serious. Confirm/deny, Stardust?

I didn't want to lynch Iso at that time, but my vote was serious.

Why did you vote for someone you didn't want to lynch? Did you really think you could pressure iso of all people?

[quote="Stardust » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:46 pm":
32t8ysv3][...]My vote was as serious as any vote can be fresh out of RVS[...][/quote]

so you agree that rvs was over at the point of your vote?

Void I hate you but I get the feeling you are scum so I don't actually hate you.

[...]

I'm busy remind me to say why Slowpoke is town later.

1. wat?
2. can you tell me why slowpoke is town now?

@Wheat: What makes you think Murphy is town? Cause I'm seeing scumCM as a lot more plausible than scumKaze in their exchange.

@CursedPride: You are calling out rezombad and myself for RVS votes. Suga got lynched in Kaze's newbie mafia for this.

I voted Iso
because reasons, I just didn't feel like sharing those reasons. And I initially saw Kaze's play as scummy (as many do and have), but have since come around on him.

The contradiction of post #127. this "gambit" you pulled is so scum

imopen2 and CM are looking very scummy focusing on some very clear RVS votes

contradiction after contradiction. you are scum. Vote Slowpoke

@imopen: I wanted to see how you'd react, and you did NOT disappoint.

My Iso vote was RVS. My vote on you is not.

Well, it wasn't "random", persay - but I did not vote him because I thought he was scummy and wanted him lynched.

So let's see...first your vote was rvs, then it was maybe a joke...or maybe you had a reason, then it was rvs and you had a reason (in the same post), then it was clearly rvs, then it was rvs...but not random. Notice the wording is the same as what stardust used earlier to explain his vote on iso? trying to get off easy by sheeping someone else's response? I wish I could vote you twice.

I just want to say that while I don't really feel scum-vibes from Kaze, I can't label him as town either.
It's just that I can understand his state of mind after following other posts from him in Bioshock (same goes for Stardust's hiatus), but being able to understand one's frustration and reading his alignment are two different things.

Kaze: keep your shit together and try to come up with some kind of read of the situation rather than being so condescending.

With that said, I want to hear what Void wants to tell us.

Another pretty useless post by Red. a fence sit and calling other players out for not contributing. Red is likely scum

@Iso: My initial vote on you was just because I don't like your first posts. I also wanted to see
everyone react to the additional pressure despite it being an RVS vote; we all clearly got some great information from that wagon.

how could you possibly gain any information from people reacting to your "rvs" vote when you yourself seem to have no idea whether it was an rvs vote or not?

Welcome Tubehunter, tell us something.

why don't YOU tell us something?

Okay. Can you
tell me how you're feeling about that? More confident, more casual, what?

I still find everything incredibly difficult, yet I feel like I "know" people like for example you and Kaze a little more.
Being a little more familiar with the environment makes posting a lot less stressful... I'm just a different kind of newbye now. I guess

Hmm...maybe you're just a really really slow learner you need to give us something, Red! nearly 300 posts in at this point and all you've said is kaze is probably town.

So red, got any actuall reads? Anyone who you think is scum?

I get bad vibes from Void, Rezombad and Slowpoke.
I don't know if I want to add imopen2 to the list as well.

No strong reads from here, though.

What about you?

Could you try to do a little post analysis to back any of these reads up? I'm especially interested in why you get "bad vibes" from void.


Curse_Pride: i'm confused about post #282. what exactly is your read on me?

ok I got to post 292 and my brain is fried...i'll try to get to the rest tomorrow. I know I said I would look into rezombad in this post but I didn't get to the stardust/rezo fight yet so i'll save that for tomorrow as well.

Nevermind, today or Saturday. Looking forward to it.

Yea, I'm in Madison this weekend visiting my GF so it's basically whenever she is doing hw or something. Right now I'm posting on my phone

I went through and did an unofficial votecount since Yanni is sick;

Kaze: imopen2
rezombad: Wheat_Grinder
Slowpoke: Cursed_Pride, Stardust
imopen2: Slowpoke, Iso, Kazekirimaru
Tubehunter: Void
Stardust: rezombad
not voting: Tubehunter, Captain Murphy, rednihilist

I believe I unvoted pending a reread

@stardust: the bar has not been set high in this game. Most people are posting sporadically and most of the contributors seem scummy to me.

I'm actually not positive where my vote is since we haven't had a vote count in ages but I think it's on you, kaze. I'm going to Unvote pending my reread and a mod vote count.

@stardust: that sentence was referring to a hypothetical where one of the two of you had to be scum, and in that situation, I think it would be Rezombad over you. In reality, I think you are both town, but those reads aren't locked in forever. I'm not following you off the cliff again. Btw, you ARE in professor stardust mode, which is why I'm not going to trust you explicitly. I am going to look at Rezombad myself to determine my opinion on him

It does make sense.

So, what don't you like about rezombad, then?

And who is your strongest scumread while you're at it?

I won't get to the Rezombad part until I do my reread either tomorrow or Saturday.

Strongest scum read right now is slowpoke. Reasons when I reread/am at a computer.


@stardust: yes, I remember it well. X_x however, "most confirmed townie" does not equate to confirmed town. I think from my meta you can tell I am a paranoid person in mafia and after the shit you pulled in KNM I doubt I'll ever trust you explicitly when you are in professor stardust mode, but as of now (pre-reread) you are at the town end of my spectrum due to what seem to be consistent scumhunting efforts.

@Everyone but Stardust and rezombad: Does the aforementioned exchange sound like Town v. Town, Town v. Scum, or Scumbussing and why?

I don't like rezombad answers at all, it seems like we've got some scum panicking here.
I also can't come up with a good reason to read this as bussing, I don't think mafia would gain anything from a sacrifice at this point of the game.

I disagree 100% with this evaluation. If one scum is playing poorly, the other scum will definitely attempt to bus them in order to create distance. Keep your eyes open

Okay. So why rezombad if Stardust's case is so weak against him?

you asked a question: is stardust vs. rezombad a town v. town, town v. scum, or scum v. scum exchange? like i said, stardust is town but might be grasping in his case against rezombad, and i think rezombad is town as well. that means it is town v. town. IF, there were a scum among the two, it would be rezombad because just cause stardust's case is weak, imo, doesn't mean it is wrong. i think rezombad is much more likely scum than stardust is. does that make sense?

I haven't done my full reread yet and I probably won't be able to till at least Friday but I read their back and forth over. I think it is town v. town...

I liked stardust's case on slowpoke a lot and I think he is my most confirmed townie so far, but I don't like his case on rezombad as much. a lot of meta analysis on someone who is only in their third or fourth game, i'm not sure if it is as accurate as when applied to a player with more history. his absences, for example, could be just RL related. If their is scum between them it is rezombad, no question.

You
think Stardust's case is weak but rezombad is the scum...?

no that's not what i said. i think they are both town. but if i were wrong, rezombad is the scum, not stardust.

Though, if their is scum between them it is rezombad, no question.***

Bah. I hadn't rezombad nor Stardust on my scumdar before this him v. him thing sprouted up.

Why do you guys have to do this to me? D:

@Everyone but Stardust and rezombad: Does the aforementioned exchange sound like Town v. Town, Town v. Scum, or Scumbussing and why?

I haven't done my full reread yet and I probably won't be able to till at least Friday but I read their back and forth over. I think it is town v. town...

I liked stardust's case on slowpoke a lot and I think he is my most confirmed townie so far, but I don't like his case on rezombad as much. a lot of meta analysis on someone who is only in their third or fourth game, i'm not sure if it is as accurate as when applied to a player with more
history. his absences, for example, could be just RL related. If their is scum between them it is rezombad, no question.

"i was never considering whether i thought you were scummy or not, because voting a wagon for no reason is a scum move in my book, i was waiting to consider your answer to my question, and i did, and i voted as a result."

"So, what you're saying is, you're not voting for people for acting scummy, you're voting arbitrarily?"

That's not what I was saying at all. Kaze said It looked like I was always going to cast my vote on him regardless of his response. I was explaining that I felt his actions had been scummy but I was waiting to see his answer to my question in case I missed something or he had some reasoning that he had been keeping to himself. When he repeated the same thing he had been saying, that I didn't believe, I voted him.

Ok my other game just ended so I should have more time for this game now. Hopefully I will catch up soon

That is, his change in playstyle is a null tell, anyone can try to change their play to be more or less aggressive etc., but his behavior in game (his votes etc) were still scummy to me.

@stardust: the only thing I could fid that you might have been thinking of is this post from the end of page 2.

I'm not even surprised in the slightest.

My God, people. I've stated numerous times that RVS wagons are my favorite way to get out of RVS.

I...ugh. I'm trying so hard not to be abrasive this game. But you guys are making that rather difficult.

I appreciate your attempts to not be abrasive since you always seem scummy in my mind based on your playstyle, but the fact that you are not being abrasive so far and still seem scummy is telling. I'm going to hold my vote
since I'm not sure what the vote count is and I'm in a rush but I'd like to know what the town motivation is for voting a wagon for no reason.

I don't see any contradiction. In this post I said I was happy he was trying to adapt but that despite his attempts, he still seemed scummy.

@iso: because Murphy didn't list any examples for me to respond to

In this game when people accuse you of something, are you supposed to find examples for them and then agree that you did something wrong? I don't think that's how this works.

Anyways, I'm a bit on tilt in mafia right now due to events I can't discuss here. Might take a day off or something. Idk

@Captain Murphy:

- Your vociferous opinions against the nameclaim make me wary, still. You say that it's a waste of time because scum will just claim some name and hope it passes, but an experienced player such as yourself should know that there is a chance that scum could claim a name a townie has and get tripped up that way. You argument that "a game this flavored would have safeclaims" is invalid. Especially when the risk for town is so low and the risk for scum is so great.
- At 142 you state "rvs was over at that point." You're
saying RVS ends at the same time for everyone? Why do you think that's the case?

It was a waste of time that early in the game, I only ever like mass claims and gaming the mod from a few hundred proper posts. On top of that, creating flavor that can break a game open is generally bad and its a high possibility that they have falseclaims.

Its called random voting stage, once you get to the point that there is a non random vote, the stage is over.

@Cursed my question is probably too vague, but I was asking who 3 people you thought were scum. I have been reading your posts! That T/S list basically answers my question though.

Iso, cursed, wheat and tube are town. Kaze has started looking more town to me, mainly because he isn't posting so many love hearts anymore and actually providing posts with good info.

Slowpoke isn't scum, I think its just checkbox fucking up and being a mafia noob

imopen is our day one lynch, his responses are overreactions,
deflections and just nonsense. I'm happy to vote him but I need a vote count please

This game is gonna be slow.

Can you point out some of my overreactions?

It's really amazing to me how so many people think I'm scum when I don't think I did anything scummy. Goes to show how much I still suck at this game I guess

Hearts are a thing that kaze does when he tries to be snarky. I mock him for it sometimes.

"I really don't think dialogue between Slowpoke and imopen2 does not support scumbuddies."

Try this again. With less of the unnecessary double negatives. I honestly don't know what you were attempting to say.

add it to the list

the point is, his behavior led me to believe that if he was town, he must feel one of those two things about you and i decided to ask which one it was

I paraphrased, imopen.

Why would Void vote CM because he thought I wasn't scum? Wouldn't he just vote CM on the grounds of being scum? You can disagree with someone's reads without finding them scummy, can you not?

i didn't say he was voting CM because he thought you were town or scum. what i was asking was, if he thought you were scum, why wouldn't he vote for you since you already had a sizeable wagon on you and i don't think CM was even being cased at the time? that leads me to believe he thought either 1. you were town, OR, 2. he felt that you were both probably scum but he was MORE sure about CM than you. i wanted to lock him into one of those opinions because i didn't like the idea of him being able to waffle on you
a page or two later.

tubehunter, wheat, and slowpoke: you all have yet to answer my questions. please do

kaze starts off with a vote on iso (a wagon that rezombad incited after my rvs vote because, "scumslip"), and suggests we nameclaim (this is fine with me, like I said I have no problem with a name claim)

So, you're just summarizing Kazekirimaru's posts and trying to pass it off as content, huh?

No...this was the beginning of a case on Kaze. I was setting the scene in the part of my post that you quoted, yes, but i was adding
my own commentary on most of Kaze's posts to that point and why i felt that they were scummy and/or attempts to deflect attention from himself. if my post was simply summary of his posts then you should be voting Kaze because he would be confirmed scum with all the truthful "summary" i laid out.

@imopen2:

- Do you believe that me being less aggressive this game(or trying to me) is alignment indicative? If so, why?
- Also, it sounded like you were planning on voting me the whole time, you were just posturing to look like you were "considering it" before you did so. Mhmm.
- The way you worded 104 was odd. Instead of just outright asking "Why did you vote them?" you garbled a bit asking "Why'd you do that? Because Kaze is town or because CM is scum?" I just don't see the townie mindset behind that question.

1. No. I think that is a null tell since your behavior in previous games brought you a ton of heat, both when you were scum and when you were town, so you
needed to adapt regardless of what role you have in this game.

2. I was planning to vote you, and i did not try to hide that fact whatsoever. asked for your reasoning, and, when it wasn't reasoning that made sense to me, i voted you. i was never considering whether i thought you were scummy or not, because voting a wagon for no reason is a scum move in my book, i was waiting to consider your answer to my question, and i did, and i voted as a result.

3. I don't see anything wrong with the way i worded my question. you somewhat misquoted me tho which may be leading you to a poor conclusion. i said, "Does that mean you think kaze is town? Or do you think captain is more scummy?" the question was to determine why, in the midst of the wagon on you, void decided to vote CM with no reasoning. was it because he thought you were not scum? or because he thought you both might be scum but that CM was more important. i wanted to get his opinion towards you locked in at that point in case he
ended up being one of the last few votes on your wagon. in my mind, voting CM could have been a placeholder vote in order to hammer you and not seem like lurkScum that was swooping in for the hammer. void didn't seem to have a problem with my question, he answered it on the next page.