Dies to Removal

I was pretty proud of my use of the janitor ability in this game. We struggled for a while to decide what to do N1

Since he had claimed a killing role anyways

Yea, I knew I was found out at the end which is why I hammered. I figured that we were in such a powerful position (and in my mind I thought it was unlikely that we could lose due to rcw's ability), that quick lynching Zem before people unvoted was worth it.

If rcw had been a 1 or 2-shot unlynchable this would have been a lot more balanced.

I still had fun, though.

Well, I saw that it was unbalanced for the last month but I had the benefit of some information...

Stardust: you had us pegged at one point but you managed to convince yourself that I was town

if rez is town, we are probably at 6-3 right now with a double voter

we mislynch and zem is a survivor that kills a town+the mafia NK = 3-3(probably without our double voter)

mafia wins?

Unvote: Ham

Vote: Zem

Why don't you want to comment until Zem claims? I'm trying to get you to commit to a read. Why are you hesitant to do that?

So you pressured hammy. What do you think of him now?

Because I don't trust you but mostly because I've been busy

Ham: I think his argument about Zem replacing in as one alignment or the other is weak and not well thought out, but at least he's posting. He definitely hasn't done anything to convince me he is town, though he hasn't done much at all so I am still down to lynch Zem if his claim doesn't feel right.

No comment on current events, imopen?
You said you wanted to lynch either hammy or zemanjaski; can you elaborate on that?
Have I come out of this smelling like roses, or are you a little scared I'm leading you off a cliff again?

I don't have further comment until Zem claims.

Ham: vote was for pressure. He's posting now so I guess it worked?

Zem: see above.

You: of course I'm scared of you. I doubt I will ever explicitly trust you after KNM. I just want to lynch scum

Wraith, you are obviously confused. I wanted to use my bus driver ability to protect a townie and redirect anything that targeted them onto a possible scum. I felt that rcw was te most likely NK target and chose Rez for reasons I have already stated. Rcw being a miller has literally nothing to do with my ability...

Hey wraith, I'm actually voting ham right now. What are you talking about?

Ugh...

Ham or Zem

I don't know what to make of stardust. I think wraith has made some good points but I always have so much trouble reading stardust that I am weary of lynching our best player...

I don't like freedom's last few posts. I think it was obvious what wraith was trying to say and he seems to be trying to twist the words around to get an easy lynch.

Ham needs to post something, anything. A read or a case. Until he does, my vote is going to be on him.

Vote: Ham

Kpaca, you replaced into the game and then said nothing except that you are vannila town. If you are town then you need to help us. There are starting to be some new posts so start contributing something.

RCW is now confirmed town, he should post some reads and help us out.

Thank you for reminding me about your double vote, GR, I had forgotten.

I'm not sure if the NK would be RCW or not...I never said how many bus driver shots
I have.

Give us a deadline

I've been getting kinda apathetic about this game but I don't want to replace out cause replacing out is for pussies.

I wish it didn't take 2 hours to make one good post...

I feel like this exchange between Zem and stardust is a little petty but that leads me to believe that it is either scumdust using his experience to push Zem to a lynch or scumzem getting caught in a legitimate mistake. I kinda doubt that stardust would be desperate as scum since he was so calm during KNM, but it's probaby a mistake to clear him based on that. Even if we assume Rez was scum with a static ability that prevented his role from Wong revealed (that's the only thing that makes sense to me), it would still be really bad to mislynch again, especially if it is stardust since he is by far the best player among us.

I was planning to do a re-read of G_R and I never got to it. Perhaps I'll have time this weekend?

tl;dr hope everyone'
s holidays are going well

Oh, and Vote RCW

I don't have much time, tons of work to do.

RCW was the NK target. I used my bus driver ability to deflect any actions taken against him onto Rez. I suspected that rcw would be the NK target since he is unlynchable and confirmed town. I also didn't like rez's role-fishing at the end of the day and I felt that the unlynchable was probably balanced by a scum vig. I have no idea why his role was not revealed to us tho

More later

a miller is not a powerful thing, freedom. it is bad for the town to have a miller. it leads the town astray. having it attached to an unlynchable character is interesting, tho. I haven't seen an unlynchable role yet in my handful of games played, and I'm not sure if it is more often a town or a scum role. it seems like it could be town and be balanced by the dayvig, but i think it really could go either way.

too late to do G_R tonight. god, this takes a lot of time just to read one person's posts

hmm, unlynchable miller? I am always suspicious of miller claims but if he really is unlynchable then we have nothing else we can do with him toDay. I agree that if he is town, he will be a likely NK target. that may play to our advantage though...

PIE:

Votes G_R in RVS, no reason. I've seen people in other games say that having no reason in your RVS vote makes you

scum a majority of the time. i don't know if this is true or not, and i think both times i've seen it the person

was town, but they were newer players iirc and pie is experienced. not sure if he would make this type of mistake.

Acknowledges freedom "slip" but does not vote him for it. -null

posts a town list at #137, good analysis here, although his resulting read on Zem is scum. i also felt that zem is

scum so this is null to me.

good followup question to me in post #140.

first says GR is scum for ignoring Freedom

calls zem out for his stupid comment re: doc having an "anti-town" response when he had other things to do than

post in this thread. i agree with this, but i am concerned about his whiteknight comment about freedom. i think

freedom
is town but i'm not so sure that i'm going to cut a bitch over it.

read in case of death thing is a positive thing imo

trys to trap Zem with vote on G_R. seems like a weak trap and i'm not sure how much it tells us about Pie so i'll

say it's null

now (post 244) he's trying to get wraith to vote G_R, it honestly sounds like a trap for town at this point.

almost like trying to frame people

now (post 266) he's trying to get stardust to vote with him...this is strange since wasn't the point of the trap to

see if zem and/or wraith were scum that would/would not bus their buddy? wouldn't adding stardust's vote, a strong

town read for you at the time, pie, make any type of "trap" a worthless thing to read?

refuses to discuss rcw as scum. i think i see his point about sticking to one read and not getting distracted, but

could link pie and rcw if rcw flips scum.

dodges another question regarding rcw.

"You'll have your answer eventually, Wraith,
and when I reveal why I'm withholding information it'll all make

sense. Trust me. If I don't deliver, go fetch a noose." Do you have a timetable for when you are going to deliver

on this?

why was zem scum for not voting G_R but wraith and stardust weren't?

oh, i see you addressed the wraith thing later...

pushes Zem hard, gets mad, zem gets daykilled. -null

"Odds and experience. Rarely does a wagon get up to 4 or so on D1 without one scum joining in." who do you think

is the scum on rcw's wagon?

reaction to zem replacing back in seems null. i think it's probably unfair as well.

your opinion of wraith seems to have changed rather quickly. can you explain what changed your mind? why did you

leave him out of your latest rundown of possible lynches? (post 512)

"food for thought, though. before we get the flip, you guys should think of how your reads of me change depending

if he flips:
- vanilla
- PR
- scum

and
analyze from there." i think that if he flips any type of town you could be scum for that hammer, if he

flips scum it's possible bussing as i noted a bit earlier, but closer to null imo.


overall i think you are null but leaning scum for that hammer pending rcw's flip

oh, you guys hammered him without a claim...

wtf, FOS: Pie

I'm not voting for rcw until he claims.

trying to do my reread of pages 8-9 now

oh, hi zem

I didn't think much of you replacing back in since we've had that happen a couple times in other games I've been in, granted, it was after more than a day or two search but idk if replacing you out again is allowed at this point? or even if there is someone to replace in for you?

regardless, glad to have you back. as long as you keep posting those long walls

oh yea, I was supposed to go over pie and G_R today, that didn't happen...i'll try to do it tomorrow.

zem, I will answer your question at that time but the short answer is that yes, I have noticed ham's lack of content in his posts, and it struck me as odd that he answered
wraith's question, and not any other ones. rcw seems really busy. I mean finals week in law school has got to suck. I know, I edit law textbooks those things are ridiculous. i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt toDay.

Ok, so I think Pie and G_R are linked. I don't have time to put a whole case together right now (hopefully tomorrow at some point), but I was just reading the last few pages and the interaction between the two is weird. Pie votes for G_R and G_R says Pie is town. near the end is Stardust "looking into" pie and basically coming to a bunch of leaning scum conclusions (in my mind) and then concludes with a town read based on Pie's answers to some questions. Pie has the whole "vote G_R with me" trap in the middle, and Stardust's recap reminded me that G_R was Pie's RVS vote as well. I think there were a few more interactions between the two on pages 8 and 9 but like I said, no time. I thought it was interesting that a bunch of people have Pie on their scum-leaning/suspect/"Those whose possible alignments leave me confused" list and yet he is receiving little pressure. I had Pie as a null/
leaning town read so far in this game but I also think that your recap of him might have been lacking a bit, stardust. I haven't iso'd his posts yet but I feel like there were several other borderline-scummy things in the beginning of the game that should be re-analyzed.

Finally it's Friday...

I'll try to make a good post tonight. I'll probably be high for it but at least I'll try to contribute more than I have been

Wow...I actually feel bad for this Z...I once again fall victim to tunneling. x_x

Fuck, ok, this puts Rez in the town pile at least for toDay.

Town pile:
Rez
Stardust (you aren't going to pop in at the end and say and say "lol go scum " right?) x_x
Freedom (god his posts suck but he is noob town)

Null pile:
Doclawless
Ham
RCW
LMD
G_R
Wraith
Pie

Scum pile:
???

I guess pie is the logical suspect considering his casing of Z but I tend to agree with G_R that it would have been very risky to push Z's wagon that hard considering it didn't seem like we were making very much headway in getting support for the lynch...

I really don't like how under the radar a lot of people have been.

RCW, Ham, and LMD are all in my null pile simply for their lack of content. Please post more.

Also, freedom, being
labeled town does not mean you can just watch others hunt the rest of the game. You need to help us. Pick a person who has been on a lot of people's null or scum reads and case them. Read through their posts for any interesting interactions, strange phrasing, anything that seems out ofte ordinary. You are basically useless to us right now except in POE situations

also, you don't address my question about whether this makes rez town or not. you don't include him in your confirmed town pile so that means you don't believe his dayvig claim? assuming he is gambiting, what does that say about him?

Z, you say pie is confirmed town but then you say to watch his interactions with me, one of the three people you said are suspicious. what gives?

thank god. i'm 99% sure that this was the right lynch/kill/whatever for toDay, but if i'm wrong, Z, you should really post some final reads for analysis. you posted one pretty recently but it can't hurt. dayvig is almost always town as we've seen recently. do you think this clears rez for the timebeing?

btw, i've read through the last couple pages but i'm tired and i don't think i've fully processed them. tomorrow i have work and then i'm having people over. posts from me will be few and far between

How is no one else not noticing this shit either? I feel like I'm talking to myself here, no one's responded to me except the people I'm frakking arguing with.

I can't vote him twice

I really don't have enough info on G_R to make a determination one way or the other.

Rezombad needs to post more, I feel like he was a lot more active in previous games and I don't have time to check his alignments in those games but I feel like he was most lurky when he was in bioshock mafia when he was scum.

Z, the reason you're the only one i've interrogated is because, other than the "slip" by freedom that had me baffled
for a minute, no one else has done much that registered strongly on my radar. wraith writes weird sentences, LMD, RCW, Ham, G_R, and Rez need to post more, stardust and freedom are town, doc is probably town, pie is leaning town but he's a bit too good at mafia and i've only played one game with him so i don't feel super confident in my read but he has basically been on your wagon with me the whole time and unless he is bussing the shit out of you, i think that is +town points for him.

did i miss anyone?

holy crap you guys posted a fuckton....I can't deal with this right now

G_R needs to post more content but I am not ready to say he is anything other than null. I've been burned too many times calling him scum.

Just a heads up that I probably will not be able to post much the next few days since work is super crazy right now.

Because scum town-reads are always accurate.

@imopen2: I'd like an answer from him before I answer to you.

lol...I didn't even see the sentence at the top of your post. I thought you just quoted his post and bolded the weird part. Sorry, daddy.

Some of them are about plays and reads. I can keep those to myself for now.

Please don't. If you're wondering why someone did something, it's probably something out of the ordinary. At worst it gives the weird thing a second set of (more experienced) eyes, and at best you get your question answered and maybe gain some insight into why someone chose to do what they did (which really is the core of this game, when you get right down to it). Questioning people and their plays is the best way to gain information.

What is a try-hard
townie? Is that an official role or just a derisive nickname to someone who's being pushy?

Is it ever safe for a Town player to assume, in a 12 player game, how many people are in Mafia roles? I mean, is there a standard formula for how many scum roles to fill or is it entirely up to the mod?

It seems very town for someone to encourage people to get out there and hunt scum. But it seems very scum for someone to encourage people to hunt in such a way that promotes paranoia. To say that you just need to get out there and start swinging in relative proximity to saying that lurking is a scumtell seems, to me, to be encouraging sloppy plays. Am I overthinking that too?

In a 12 player setup there are usually 3 scum but I've heard of it being as few as 1 and as many as 5. I'm sure some of the more experienced players have heard of even more odd setups.

What are you trying to say in your last paragraph?

That phrase stuck out to me as well but I don't know what it means. What do you make of it, G_R?

Had to spam the submit button to get that in there. Fucking A, guys

Also, wraith, it is not against te rules to reference COMPLETED games, only IN PROGRESS games.

@Doc - a lot of what you posted re: Z's rationale is WIFOM. And you're reading far too much into potential drawbacks for one of Z's targets being a townie. If I've read what you say correctly, you basically say that Z is either town trying to lynch scum or scum trying to lynch scum in order to ingratiate himself with the town, and that if he was scum lynching town it would make him the primary scumspect day 2. Unfortunately I've found that it doesn't really work like that. This is my 3rd game and so far whenever a town leads a wagon on someone who ends up flipping town they've not been a big
target the next day. The reason, from what I can tell, is that each player just knows what they are and has no idea about anybody else. Town invariably get lynched, and often it's just because they make bad posts or do things that others take as scummy or give off vibes. Since multiple town end up having to vote for any lynch, especially early in the game, you can't read too much into it unless it's very obvious.

I'm only going to have like a gazillion questions to ask after this game wraps up.

You're thinking, which is good. You just don't know mafia logic very well yet. Read about WIFOM on mafiascum and you might get a better sense as to why your posts about Z's motivations are flawed. Focus on his behavior and less on what you think he might do as scum or town.

GR: can you give us some content other than not wanting to read what we've written?

Catching up on the night's events:

Pie is probably town for his white knighting of freedom.

Zem is still scummy. "Guys, I was town before and look how closely I am emulating my behavior!!"