Dies to Removal

no, you know what, ham fucked up his claim, why would his shit be in green if he's self aligned?

Unvote
Vote hamfactorial

I think decks should shoot wraith tonight though, he's already not town, and there's a chance that he could be a threat to the town with his ability's weirdness

I don't get my changeling ability back. I am the disabler of abilities now. My alignment is not town, but self aligned which allows me choose a winning dude. So far town had the upper hand. I choose town. In that process, I confirmed 2 people as town, called out a scum or other faction, and created a voting block. Scum don't like that at all. You coming out against me says a lot about your standing in this
game. Scum want confusion and as many questionable characters as possible. Creating a town voting block is the best way to root out the scum. You have contributed much this game at all besides off the wall votes and serious waffling (DK, there you go). I can't tell if you are scared or just drunkish. Pretty sure imopen2 is town based on circumstance.
The questionable pile is the following: stardust, Rez, LMD, and ham (all we know with him is that he had to have lied).

Where do you have their alignments at?

Edit, where the hell is LMD and imopen2. My iPad keeps trying to change imopen2 to impotence in spell check .

Ham, Wraith, I'm going to assume you're both self aligned.

Right now it should be five town, two of you, and one scum. Your odds are way better with town right now, so do yourselves and us a favor and help us find the last scumbucket. Stop wasting time with each other.

I can confirm my ability. Ham can't. Letting this go is what he is betting on.

You claim to have disabled me, how can I actively
prove anything tonight? Where have I shown any desire to let this go? DK is the one suggesting we focus on the no-kill last night.

You should have been notified, thus not a claim anymore. I am going all in for ham as scum. If there is another suspect worth voting for since yesterday's votes; where are the cases?

Where the hell us LMD and imopen2?

Ham, Wraith, I'm going to assume you're both self aligned.

Right now it should be five town, two of you, and one scum. Your odds are way better with town right now, so do yourselves and us a favor and help us find the last scumbucket. Stop wasting time with each other.

I can confirm my ability. Ham can't. Letting this go is what he is betting on.

In respect to DK and he could be right, I checked through the posts again. Here are a few players I am looking at.

Imopen2- he wanted to lynch kaze way to early to be scum. His vote did flip flip a lot, but he could have swung big for scum at that moment. Not scum to me.

LMD- really hard to read. He buttered up to DK with saying he was not going to lynch kaze. I think he would be capable of bussing kaze if he was scum. He also requested that kaze respond as I did in the gone postal game trying to save RCW. Decent chance he is scum.

Rez- has been scum hunting hard but vote flipping bad. He has done it so often now that it means nothing for pressure. He is seriously in my null pile.

Stardust- tried like hell to lynch me. Twice or three times now? When other players find my claims valid, he backs off. Also, I the mod did not respond to me till way later. How did the mod respond to stardust before me when my request
went in before his? It could be nothing but it caught my attention.

Ham- dude you voted kaze with little or no reason. My vote stays on you.

The lack of a hide ability makes me wonder what the hell Wraith is doing, along with his poor timing. Why not counter immediately?

If he gets me lynched, I'll flip survivor and he'll get lynched the following day for lying, which seems like an exceedingly poor play and completely against his stated win-con.

@Stardust: I hid behind LMD last night.

There was a strong chance kaze was scum, thus why let that slide by? You voted kaze very smoothly and it pinged my radar. Since scum got lynched; I support town now for the win as scum was lynched. I am hedging my bets on this play to win the game day 2 if possible. Perfect timing as far as I am concerned. I win when any faction wins as long as I am alive. You are floundering.

Ham could
be lying on his claim. Mine is confirmed on the ability and it is not anywhere close to the power ham has.

ham is definitely not mafia. Not a chance. His Survivor abilities are very powerful and his ability to hide makes him an unlikely target for basically everyone now that he's claimed it. It's possible that he's a serial killer given his claimed abilities and actions so far this game. However, I think this is unlikely since I'm assuming that we have a mafia team of some sort since Kaze wouldn't be mafia all by himself (probably). 2 scum, 1 SK is a lot for 6 town players to take on, even if that SK only has 1 shot.

What?

We caught him in 2 counter claims: Self aligned and vigilante. If he is any of the other factions; they have
to be dangerous to town.

DK:

Stop trying to suicide, we need to clear up this Wraith counterclaim nonsense.

Wraith:

You claim survivor, where's your hide ability? Why didn't you target me last night to prove your counter-claim?

If you disabled me, I'm free to be investigated tonight. Come at me, bros.

Red was still in my sights for possible scum as I though kaze was bussing red. The other scum target was you. My ability allowed me to check red and I found a town ability. I knew you were lying but was not sure if you are scum or another dangerous faction.

Wish the mod would answer his damn PM. He answered stardusts? Wtf?

Edit "enemy faction"

Like I started this day out: I fully expect you guys to lynch me now. All rational and obvious evidence points to me as the scum team.

1. There should only be one scum left.
2. No night kill happened.
3. I'm the number 1 scum suspect from yesterday.
4. I claimed that I was disabled.
5. The disabler confirmed that.
6. A changeling confirmed that ability.

So, I've laid everything out now. I am being serious when I suggest you just hang me and get it over with. Then you'll be able to trust everything I've said. If you lynch someone else, you could still hit a townie and we'd be at Day 3 with the doubt around me still lingering and clouding decisions.

Just clear my name now; it should make the rest of the Days easier.

Little
early for that? Good story but ham is my target, and should be yours. Get behind it and make your life count. The evidence is solid that we lynch scum or another faction at least.

Yes, I waited to counter claim and glad I did. It was alluded to in day 1 that I had issue with his claim.

I also pm'd the mod to disable ham.

@DK, ham bombed himself and survived! don't tell me about probabilities.

@ham, it makes no sense to have 2 self aligned players and a huge list of other factions. Yes, I would have believed it as it would be balanced somewhat then. Your claim is outrageously powerful for this game. Unless Kaze's ability was an indicator of the game power. Your ability is still in question then as you are a dodger of vigilantes as kaze was or could perform.

If 2 vigilantes shot 2 town players, scum would be heavily over favored to win. I doubt there are 2 vigilantes. I would have believed you if you only claimed the hide ability.

I submitted my two choices as Scum/Vigilante because "I want to be able to kill someone at night, so no matter what you chose, I get that."

The role PM said I was "Town Two-Shot Vigilante" in bold green font. At Night I may kill another player and I can only use it twice.

We can't have 2 vigilantes in a small game. Ham has to be lying.

Okay, everyone just slow down here for a sec.

Wraith, Dechs, Red and hamfactorial. I want each of you to fully paraphrase your role PM's. Give us what two options you gave Pie, which he chose, and what your actual role name is (this you can quote). The only other information I want is details on how your role works. Just give me the exact details and nothing more - I want a snapshot here, not your life story.

I asked for Town - Godfather, ended up as Town Disabler (and now Town Changeling).

For the role descriptions, Wraith did a good job in explaining
them.

You would have known to if I said something out of line. My first ability is passed around player to player allowing abilities to change hands. Cool.

My ability can somewhat check players for possible scum abilities. Dude, I painted a target on your back.

I think hams ability is way to over powered to be truth in such a small player game.

I used 2 abilities in game that might lynch scum. I basically cleared red, counter claimed ham, and locked down my scum pick. Not a bad for day 2.

Also, I did not pick town and serial killer. I choose self aligned and serial killer. Not a word from pie was given to change it. How many of you Idgets choose serial killer? Would like to know that fact when the game ends.

Um, no. Serial Killer is not an alignment. It's also not an ability (you couldn't be a Town Serial Killer). Like hammy, Pie made me change my choices. It was not a joke, you're lying, please hang, etc.

Ok. Believe what you want. Ehhh, I haven't been lynched yet in a game besides the theros game, but someone else was at the helm. I am concerned that stardust is pushing my vote cause maybe ham and stardust are in the same faction.

DK, make stardust a holy man for me.

I also chose serial killer as my alignment. I also was told that's impossible (and changed it to self-aligned). You, apparently, weren't told that, therefore your chosen ability/alignment is a lie.

I did not get told that and was just given changeling.

I think he may have told you that as a joke. You are not allowed to be that awesome.

Whistle blowers always get lynched.
Well I am targeting ham with my new cool ability then.

When I role my claimed alignment and ability; you guys Lynch ham cause he is scum.

@stardust, do you think more than one self aligned faction in this game is possible?

I'm going to wait for those full claims before I talk about anything else, but this I'll answer. Two survivors could be possible in a 9 player game, but it seems unlikely. A 7 player game would normally be balanced around 2 scum. With two survivors, that's basically this game. The only problem here is that if we're 5:2:2, a mislynch followed by a town kill results in 3:2:2, meaning town can lose Day 2 if the survivors join up with the scum. I think Pie would avoid that scenario at all costs. However,
I don't know everyone's roles, so it might be possible to balance around that.


Yeah, nevermind, Wraith is scum. He botched his claim.

Vote Wraith.

What? I gave all the info? Ham's role has 2 major abilities. I only have one.

Okay, everyone just slow down here for a sec.

Wraith, Dechs, Red and hamfactorial. I want each of you to fully paraphrase your role PM's. Give us what two options you gave Pie, which he chose, and what your actual role name is (this you can quote). The only other information I want is details on how your role works. Just give me the exact details and nothing more - I want a snapshot here, not your life story.

I choose self aligned and serial killer.

Pie picked self aligned. He gave the role of changeling survivor. It is in blue font color.

At night, I can target a player and gain their abilities. I still retain the alignment of self aligned survivor. My target gains changeling as their role.


I picked red
over night. Now I am self aligned day disabler survivor. During the day, I pm the mod a name to disable. That night, they are disabled and the mod informs that player they are disabled. I have to use the ability before I am lynched or anyone is lynched for it to work. It was only me to be lynched before twilight, but the mod changed it to anyone.

Wraith, what's your alignment?

Self aligned. Now that a scum got lynched, I think town is favored to win. Ham should be cased like stardust did cause I really think he falsely claiming. He used neutral as an alignment but I think it is a play of words. I win when any faction wins. His wording is wrong. I did not ya anything earlier as I wanted to see who he voted for. It is a high possibility that he bussed kaze to gain
trust. Why DK is buttering up to ham is beyond me. DK is off my radar for a vote as he is in a cage technically. It would be a waste of a vote currently and only confirm Red and I somewhat.

I am only throwing out my credentials this game cause ham is falsely claiming in my opinion. A neutral claim is BS cause I hold that spot. I doubt there is another like me in this game unless he another faction. Another faction that is not self aligned has to be dangerous.

No night kill has me intrigued. This small a player base demands the removal of players through night kills to get the numbers advantage.

Nah bro, I claimed self-aligned from the start. Here's the post where I used it.

I'm not scum, and I know Red's not on my team because reasons.

I know you declined to answer to this already, but I really think you should. Do it. Independents are generally anti-town, so I'm going to lynch you either way. May as well try to convince me not to.

Ok, seems fine. I asked Pie to make me a self-aligned serial killer. He chose self-aligned and gave me a survivor role with an alternate ability that I can choose, but it leaves me unprotected.

My best chance to live through the game is to play the odds and go pro-town from the start. I cast my vote for DK, the player who seemed scummiest and has remained so. Finding scum seems a faster avenue to victory than hiding behind ever-shrinking numbers of townies.

etc.

I used the exact words from my role PM.

I can confirm my ability with red. You can not confirm anything. You bussed kaze. The role you claimed is a cover identity.

Do we have a lie detector in this game? It would really help.

vote Hamfactoral

I am confidant that you are scum. You said that you are not good at lying and I counter claim the shit out of you. The kaze vote is my best supporting evidence. Also, claiming self aligned, hanging back, and voting late day to buss Kaze sounds like your style of scum play. In a previous game, you alluded to the fact that you like to hang back, let the town go wild, and sneak in the vote. Sounds like your style.

vote wraith

anti-town. kill it with fire.

Not anti town. You let ham go even though he claimed a non town faction. I don't care if you vote me, but ham is claiming a faction that I hold. I am willing to risk the chance of being lynched to nail possible scum.

@DK, I am not neutral. I am self aligned and win when any faction wins if still alive. You cannot be neutral and vote. That makes no sense. I was going to let this go and fly quietly, but the chance that ham is scum is very high in my opinion. There is quite a long list of factions in this game, thus 2 of the same nontown and non scum are highly unlikely. I wanted see if ham would vote Kaze and he did. I believe he did so late in the day/vote as he saw a way to gain town favor. Stop using the word "neutral" as it is a scum ploy of words.

@stardust, do you think more than one self aligned faction in this game is possible?

Wraith, what's your alignment?

Self aligned. Now that a scum got lynched, I think town is favored to win. Ham should be cased like stardust did cause I really think he falsely claiming. He used neutral as an alignment but I think it is a play of words. I win when any faction wins. His wording is wrong. I did not ya anything earlier as I wanted to see who he voted for. It is a high possibility that he bussed kaze to gain trust. Why DK is buttering up to ham is beyond me. DK is off my radar for a vote as he is in a cage technically. It would be a waste of a vote currently and only confirm Red and I somewhat.

I am only throwing out my credentials this game cause ham is falsely claiming in my opinion. A neutral claim is BS cause I hold that
spot. I doubt there is another like me in this game unless he another faction. Another faction that is not self aligned has to be dangerous.

No night kill has me intrigued. This small a player base demands the removal of players through night kills to get the numbers advantage.

I don't know if I believe DK, but if red did prevent DK; it was true. I don't recall seeing the word "Roleblock" in his ability wording. DK fast voting
LMD seems defensive as he cannot confirm his ability.

I think ham should be looked at as I think he is lieing on his alignment. How many self aligned players are generally in a game?

Technically speaking, yes - I'm the one who disabled you.

The funny thing is that you caught me for the wrong reasons - I'm not going to quote my PM, but the role is worded in a way that forces the player that uses it to submit the action during the day, so the fact that you received the PM from Pie at 3.42 just means that Pie doesn't like sleeping.

Now, I've been targeted by a changeling so I've lost my role, so said player can actually confirm this, having stripped me of my role.

Hi red! I can't confirm your alignment, but yes, your role is confirmed. I thought kaze was bussing your ass after stardust went after mine. I find weird that it is a day ability, and you have to do it before before a lynch
occurs.

making a big deal of things I find scummy is the job of a towns right?

Sure. It's not a bad thing, though it's not necessarily townie either. Scum make a big deal of things too, though often in different ways. How you went about pushing back at me was a big factor in me eventually calling you town.

What is a wagon to you? 2 votes? 1 vote?

What I really meant was that we've got 5 players being seriously
considered for a lynch (at least by someone): me, you, Kaze, Dechs and Red. We need time to sort that out.

Are you bussing Kaze, but at the same time asking for the deadline?

Uh, no.

Ok. I can live with that for now.
unvote

Will read through on kaze again and sleep on it.
I never grasped Kaze on a correct read on Durp mafia. If ham thinks I am hard to read; kaze is just as hard to me.

Edit, the sentences with smileys should be bolded and the word "towns" should be "towny".

'Cause that totally worked to keep you quiet, right? I think I know you well enough to know exactly what I was getting into when I voted you without giving a reason. Creating something big enough to get everyone discussing it was the reason I postponed giving those reasons in the first place (though even that didn't really work). If there's one thing you're good at, it's making things a big deal.
the first sentence is so true. You only think you know me. making a big deal of things I find scummy is the job of a towns right?
Why do you say an extension would
be favourable for me in particular? We've got (three? four?) competing wagons with about 30 hours to deadline. People need time to make the right choice. I suspect that if it got rushed right now, Kaze would likely be the lynch mostly because he hasn't posted in the past couple days. I'm not sure whether he's hiding or just busy, but it certainly doesn't help his case.

Answered first question in earlier post. What is a wagon to you? 2 votes? 1 vote? Sadly, I lost a good scum buddy in gone postal mafia from player inactivity, thus is see your point on possibly lynching kaze. A deadline lynched scum last game, and me bussing his ass. Are you bussing Kaze, but at the same time asking for the deadline?

Thanks Red. If it came to deadline, I take it you'd be willing to lynch either Kaze or Wraith?

Right now I'd probably go for Kaze.
I don't know of the "personal reason" ham mentioned, he suddenly appeared to be not involved with the game at all then disappeared, and that just doesn't mix with his jumpy start.

I'd prefer performing a proper ISO on Wraith before that, though.

Go for it! Also explain to me what that is? Was it the stardust
review of kaze and DK? Would be really cool to see a read on me anyway that stardust did. Although, it's a lot of material for only day 1 to make a call on. Not sure how valid the other are when I think about it.

I don't see a DK lynch happening and won't vote for him today. Later days with his intel will tell whether he is town. No one has counter claimed either. Stardusts case of kaze is good but the it drifts to a DK lynch in the end. I never saw where kaze requested a claim when red came close to vote. Did I miss that? If not, why did he not ask if he was the serious guy? I never did cause i find that most folks asking for a claim are scum even though I have been wrong way to many times on that.

Am I the only one who did not want the extension? Thought it is maybe detrimental to scum who maybe on the block or being heavily cased.

When some one makes a challenge that threatens you but does not go through with it to get forced silence; always call that challenge. It is the same rational for folks who are black mailed. The black mailer has more to risk in getting caught by police (town in this instance) that the person getting blackmailed. The fear is what the blackmailer (challenger) is betting on to what ever they want out of the person getting black mailed. In this instance, it is my silence I suspect you want.

An extension would be favorable for you at this moment, but the coincidence of the pre-release is true.

At the bottom of your kaze case, you say DK as scum more so than Kaze. Why waste the time to discuss the Kaze case then still push DK. Makes no sense when you voted Kaze. Later you pick up the torch for DK again. The flip flop is what looks bad. You did say you could make a case on me if you wanted to. There is no getting around that. I can understand your point on the cross roads you face, but you made it by your own hand. Why can't DK and kaze be on the same team? Just a thought.

It's 15.30 and I'm working, though...

Should not take that long between lap dances.

Just messing with you.

Only played two games kaze and I never really grasped his character in those games. He was more playful in those games or posted material that was just weird (durp mafia). Not sure whether he is using me as a shield to unify or making an early friend? I went after Red for his post. Kaze just road the wave I made. The more I think about it, kaze looks more scummy. Issue is the same is true for DK in evaluation. Stardust and imopen2 are pushing the wagon on kaze. I am wondering whether they are working together to deflect the
stardust questioning by me. Stardust does tight a very nice case on DK and Kaze, but burying us in a wall of text is a neat way to hide scum intent to counter unify and lynch town. Stardust has tried to push the DK twice. He quickly gave up after DK claimed Cop, and gets reinvigorated again. We know DK is going to investigate Stardust of he has that ability, thus stardust must go on the attack if DK is scum. Question is whether the mod can confirm DK claim that stardust is scum via DK.
@DK, can you check to see if the mod can confirm your investigation to us?

Back to Kaze...I am unsure he is scum as his spec thread has him placing red as a decent player. He might see something in red that I missed.
@kaze what is your opinion of red at this point so far in the game?

The better vote is still stardust. The flip flopping, text burying, and double attack on DK has me beyond concerned. As to the comments on my fear of good players; it is a factor in my decisions, but only supporting rational level
material. In previous games, I have always challenged the big players. Nothing new there.
@stardust, why let DK go, make a big case on Kaze fast, then make another big case on DK? I would have went after me with your time and effort. You had a long period of suspecting me scum, and made a threat that you could make a case on me but did not. Making the case on DK again but highly indepth seems like an equivocation to slide town into a kaze versus DK case to cover the need to protect yourself from DK if he is indeed a cop. I am completely willing to hear a case on me as you did DK and Kaze. If it lead to a lynch; it would still allow DK to investigate you. If he died that night; we know you are scum. I see you have painted yourself in a corner. Please do not ask what the question is here as it is obvious. Why find you make a case again on DK instead of me when you agreed that DK is alter day lynch?
Threatening me that you could make a case on me but not doing so is fear mongering.

I'm done. I fucked up enough. I'm going to stop talking. Just hang me already so I can flip town and you guys hang Stardust tomorrow.

Don't give up. Answer our questions and state your case on kaze and stardust of why they are town and scum. Pro and con list for example. I find it weird that stardust backed off and now is voting DK, but cop claim requires his word and another lynch to prove it.

Edit, "would you lynch you"

I get it. You're afraid that I am a cop and that I'm going to investigate you tonight. Fine. Hang me. When I flip town, you guys need to hang Scumdust.

Little over the top there, and town would not get upset at an investigation. Can you explain more in depth now that you see stardusts opinion with the role request? You had to know that asking for a role that early is scummy. Red did it last game and I nearly lynched him for it. I let it go on you cause others were already questioning it and I had others already in my scum tell pool.

Would lynch you based on your actions with the request for a role? If not, why?

ask me anything.

I will ask you three things.

Can you explain that theory? I'm not convinced Wraith is town, but he's certainly leaning that way.

I don't see how DK's quote there implies he knows who's town. Reads to me that he's just doubting that ham slipped at all (though I have no idea why he'd take that stance when it's pretty clear that he did). Explain?

What do you think of Kaze?

1. I think Wraith has a tell, and I'm not gonna say what it is until after he dies.
2. That's not what he said though.
3. Not much,
I guess I could go read him.

Nice try. The only person I know who can catch me in a lie is my sister. She can read a person good. I have triple trick her into a fork in the road decision of whether I am tricking her or tricking to trick her. She looses her shit when I do that.

I knew that Role in Gone Postal would upset this game, thus as you saw in that game, you know I plan out things way ahead in advance. Picking Scum in this game is suicide to me and would detriment to a scum team. Go ahead and read me again, but where is the evidence I am Scum as compared to others?

Now I can talk about other players from Gone Postal. Red is good, but really to aggressive to challengers. He could hide a scum agenda in this game with the aggression and it would be hard to call.

Rez looks like he playing pretty much the same>>>Town pile.

Ham is a serious toss up to me. I would
have lynched his ass in a heart beat if I was town in Gone Postal (needed to make friends). This game...I don't know now that I have played scum. I REALY don't like that he claimed Neutral. That is a gamble my gut has issues with.

DK is hard to call as his play style is only known to me by one game where we worked together(ish). This game has him in my town pile for being falsely demanded a role by stardust.

After my first game as scum, do you think I would be dumb enough to pick scum in the next game?

This is the worst defense I have ever heard.

What? When I made my request to the Mod; it crossed my mind that it would be an issue in this game. So lets play a game. Can you guess what has never happened to me in any mafia game. I chose my role around this fact.

NOU!

I'm not scum, and I know Red's not on my team because reasons.

elaborate

nah

unvote
vote hamfactorial

I don't buy it. If he was scum, there's no way he'd be dumb enough to slip like this. You can't even say WIFOM to it, because it's a terrible gambit.

Unvote

don't talk to me about people not being dumb enough to slip certain ways.

Right now I'm willing to lynch Wraith to test a theory, DK because the above post implies he know who is and is not scum, imopen because he isn't upsetting me.

I think that's good for now. ask me anything.

Vote Wraith

After my first game as scum, do you think I would be dumb enough to pick scum in the next game?

What is your theory? Think you are taking advantage of the end game there, but maybe you are fishing for someone else?

304? Really? Why would I allow my strongest scum read to skip by without a full claim? I'd asked repeatedly and he continued to ignore me. I wanted a response. If that response was anything other than a full claim I would have voted him immediately.

News flash! You are one vote, not the majority in one. You asked way to early and backed off really fast. Attacked me with pure shit posts. I called you out and got the stardust beat around the bush routine. Next, you post a jab attack on Kaze. Did you find anything or was that just a smoke screen? You did the same thing calling me scum without evidence. We would love to know what you see in kaze as scum or you just playing the misleading card again? Now that DK is calling you out, your response is to
take the path of Red. Yeh...the response you give is frustrated town. That card is way overplayed now. The comment of needing get to know the game again tells me you are cornered.