Dies to Removal

I meant main points such as bannings madam! Sally mod team does not unanimously do anything. I promise you, there's always at least one person against something. Or, at least there was when I was on staff. It, um, happens all the time? Most mod teams are, like, 3 people. Oh, well, in that case, that'd be easy to do. It won't happen on Sally, though...

What, specifically, can you not see happening and why not? Regardless...good thing it's not up to you, I suppose? :p I'll be honest, I don't see them reinstating G_R to moderator status again. He ruffled quite a few feathers with his public....I don't want to say "bashing" but that's probably the best word - of the rules changes, and the drama that was going on. I mean, he pretty much said the admins advocated along with the majority of the moderators to actively lie not only to the Gutter but to the userbase as a whole, and that he was in the minority trying to give them some type of moral compass. ER maintains grudges. Three admins won't be able to overrule him. Maybe I was reading it wrong, but who knows? If they're going about this the way they always have, the decision won't be the admins' alone to make. ExpiredRascals simply does not care. Sorry, I have no faith in the ability of anyone to be able to overcome his idiocy. Please, prove me wrong. I don't mind being proven wrong, but I see the narcissistic side in his posting. At this point I have more faith in the talks with people we can now consider higher This, but also, Fahey, I suppose I'll explain what I meant. In the days of yore when I was a moderator, there came a time when the Admins and Globals decided to shut the Gutter down without informing THEIR OWN CO-WORKERS. There was SUCH a ruckus caused by the 'Nilla mods that, from then on, EVERY big decision was to be discussed and voted upon, and the winning side got their resolution. MEANING that ER can vote "FUCK THOSE ASSHOLES" all he wants and it won't do a damn bit of good if the majority of the other staff disagree with him. Now, are some of the mods going to disagree with ER? Yes, but some will not. SO it really depends on the 'Nilla mods. A site cannot function with all the staff not agreeing. ER will fail ... He can't do everything by himself... It is naive to believe that ANY site ANYWHERE will be run by a moderation team that agrees on everything. It's just not going to happen. Ever...

Bet...

Fahey appears to think he does. :shrug...

IN OTHER WORDS ER is not nearly as powerful as many here think he is...though he is still a tool...

What, specifically, can you not see happening and why not? Regardless...good thing it' s not up to you, I suppose? :p I'll be honest, I don't see them reinstating G_R to moderator status again. He ruffled quite a few feathers with his public....I don't want to say "bashing" but that's probably the best word - of the rules changes, and the drama that was going on. I mean, he pretty much said the admins advocated along with the majority of the moderators to actively lie not only to the Gutter but to the userbase as a whole, and that he was in the minority trying to give them some type of moral compass. ER maintains grudges. Three admins won't be able to overrule him. Maybe I was reading it wrong, but who knows? If they're going about this the way they always have, the decision won't be the admins' alone to make. ExpiredRascals simply does not care. Sorry, I have no faith in the ability of anyone to be able to overcome his idiocy. Please, prove me wrong. I don't mind being proven wrong, but I see the narcissistic side in his posting. At this point I have more faith in the talks with people we can now consider higher This, but also, Fahey, I suppose I'll explain what I meant. In the days of yore when I was a moderator, there came a time when the Admins and Globals decided to shut the Gutter down without informing THEIR OWN CO-WORKERS. There was SUCH a ruckus caused by the 'Nilla mods that, from then on, EVERY big decision was to be discussed and voted upon, and the winning side got their resolution. MEANING that ER can vote "FUCK THOSE ASSHOLES" all he wants and it won't do a damn bit of good if the majority of the other staff disagree with him. Now, are some of the mods going to disagree with ER? Yes, but some will not. SO it really depends on the 'Nilla mods...

What, specifically, can you not see happening and why not? Regardless...good thing it's not up to you, I suppose? :p I'll be honest, I don't see them reinstating G_R to moderator status again. He ruffled quite a few feathers with his public....I don't want to say "bashing" but that's probably the best word - of the rules changes, and the drama that was going on. I mean, he pretty much said the admins advocated along with the majority of the moderators to actively lie not only to the Gutter but to the userbase as a whole, and that he was in the minority trying to give them some type of moral compass. ER maintains grudges. Three admins won't be able to overrule him. Maybe I was reading it wrong, but who knows? If they're going about this the way they always have, the decision won't be the admins' alone to make...

What, specifically, can you not see happening and why not? Regardless...good thing it's not up to you, I suppose? :...

Also, if there are things that Curse wants changed about the Gutter, we're all more than willing to discuss and most likely comply. Seriously, Pegging Chamber discussions were going really well until N_S got banned, and even longer to a degree...

Thanks Manders. Heh, that may be the first time you've ever thanked me. No problem. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I know I'm a bit late on these, but I have some things to say: Like bouboille, im trying to save you a headache. Just ignore Yanni and probably Fahey as well itt. You seem pretty upset. Im done dealing with people who just want to incite drama. Go find that somewhere else please. Some of us have been at this near a year, and I for one would appreciate it if you would kindly take your crusader attacks on mtgstaff and Internet toughguy act elsewhere. Thanks again. You act like we incite drama, and yet...I can't help but notice that all you do is bitch, moan, and complain. Both RussianAlara and myself have reasons as to why we are even here. IT isn't because we want to incite drama. The reason we are here is because unlike you,we aren't interested in pointing out every fucking flaw that's going on. I could point out how much of a bitch you are as a person, but given the fact that you seem to think you're never wrong, it's be fruitless. The ones hindering this entire thing are you and people like you. How about you let people with a bit of diplomacy handle it. Maybe we'll even get your dumb ass back on Sally. Coming into this thread with the attitude that you've had so far is completely unnecessary. Like, I seriously don't understand why you would come in here and threaten they guy who's offering to discuss with us. How is that going to help? I must admit, the past month at Salvation has been a lot better than the previous months of shitfest. Everything was going fine until the upper staff decided to close the Gutter without even giving them OR the Vanilla mods at the time any advance notice. As a member of the staff at that time, I can tell you that we were having 0 problems from the Gutter, and it was nice. Harkius I like you more when you're advocating shit eating. Sometimes lack of a filter makes a world of a difference. :thumbsup: Seriously. Harkius, I don't know what changed with you since you came here, but I much prefer THIS Harkius. :smileup: Warning: Personal opinion ahead, no promise or anything, those are just my thoughts and I'm still bouncing ideas left and right with people. Hai! Daily update time. I got a big ass spreadsheet with most of the people involved in the drama, reasons of bans, etc, and I'm going through it whenever I have free time. I don't agree with how some of the things went down, and I'm pretty sure we can find a compromise pretty easily if everyone involved is willing to make an effort (both on the admin team side, and on your side). Honestly right now we have two problems. The first one is that the whole situation has been going on forever, and it's now a pretty giant drama that no one can fully understand without referring to a bunch of notes and "okay what the hell happened back then?". The second one is that based on how things went down before, people got mad and said or did slightly stupid things but I don't think anything was really bad. In a nutshell on my side: I will need a few more days to get the opinion from the entire mod team before I do anything, I've been working mostly on admin level for now but I won't move without getting the feeling from the entire mod team on the situation. I will probably offer a few changes on how rules work, and see what people think about it. I honestly think that it would be fine to have most people come back as long as we're clear on a few things: No more alt/gimmick account. (I know this is a grey area, I just want it written down somewhere for now) No more account sharing. We all somewhat figure out what the hell went wrong, agree on it, and decide we're done with it. If people are coming back just to be all hostile and stuff, it obviously won't work. As an "outsider", I do think there's something to be fixed when people with a couple thousand posts or people who were heavily involved in the site administration end up having to leave just because of giant disagreements that aren't really that bad when you look into them. As for the Gutter, I already said I don't agree with the principle but I'm also not part of the community in the first place. I'm not opposed to keeping it open because it's ... "historically relevant" to the forums but we'll probably have to agree slightly on what is okay and not okay. Random forum to fuck around in a small group is fine as long as nothing really illegal or terrible happens. I'd still like to do it in two phases though, reintegrating people to the community would be the first step and we can talk about the Gutter a little further down the road. I'm fine keeping this forum as a point of contact, or even giving my IM details to a couple of people to have a real discussion about it. All of this sounds fantastic. Also, I'll tell you what I told Sene. Knowing these guys as well as I do, if you DO decide to go back and reverse everything that happened since the Gutter closure thread, you will have no problems from anyone here. I really feel that all would be forgiven and we'd really just want to get back to being the Gutter/all our other MTGS stuff, such as Mafia, Clans, Outside Magic, etc. Everyone on this site was very active before all this happened. Hell, I have almost as many posts as kpaca, and I just joined in Sept 2009. :...

@Mogadishu Jones: If you guys want to compile list of usernames that needs to be reviewed, I'll go through it as soon as possible. If you want to send me a PM about it to not go all public about it, it's also fine, I'm sticking to this post for transparency purposes but I'm fine with whatever works for you. We're still reindexing the entire forums on the new search servers, will take a while but hey, we don't need a downtime for that. @Col. Khaddafi: That's kind of my point, you don't know how the SQL DB of vB works. Asking for an export of posts like this is a giant pain, and still a huge privacy/security breach in my opinion. As for closing the Gutter, if my only plan was to close the Gutter I don't think I would be posting here to figure out what' s going on. The situation has been frustrating on both sides, but if you want to work on a solution I'm up for it. That's about it. @NoHomers: I don't know, it would most likely depend on the size of the bag. No, seriously, I'll also look into it, but it's literally day 1 for me to try to catch up on everything so give it a little more time. On a sidenote, I'd like to point out that I appreciate people trying to work with me on this, it's kind of good to move forward. I'm still reading the thread, so if I repeat anything, sorry. But, here's what I'd like to see (as I recently said to Sene): I'd like to see everything that's happened since Viperesque posted that the Gutter would be closed to be reversed. The upper staff's decision to close the Gutter with NO advance discussion with either the Gutter itself or the lower mods was what triggered EVERYTHING that's happened since then. So, to be more clear, here's what I'd like to see: (N_S) unbanned, NOT on probation, and reinstated to Gutter Mod. kpaca unbanned, NOT on probation, and reinstated to Gutter Mod Kijin unbanned, NOT on probation, and reinstated to Gutter Mod Madding unbanned and NOT on probation. Yanni unbanned and NOT on probation. Shalako unbanned and NOT on probation. poggydude unbanned and NOT on probation. GR reinstated to iridium, if he so chooses to be. Now, to finish reading the thread...

Boubouille, what questions do you have? How can we help you to help everyone involved...

Hey there Fahey, The staff has noticed that you tend to get rather aggressive and confrontational in your interactions with Teia, and that it seems to be on a personal level more than a professional level. You derail threads just to complain about Teia, and it's disruptive. What we're seeing is something that amounts to a vendetta, and if it continues, you will no longer be a member of this community. So what we'd like you to do is to contact an admin if you have a problem with Teia or another staff member, and explain your position. They'll listen. Do this instead of continuously criticizing Teia in various threads. It's more productive, less disruptive, and less offensive. If you have any questions, please respond, or forward to an admin. nThanks, -Sene That is the biggest load of horse shit I have ever seen in my life. Sene better watch out the next time we're on AIM together. I have so much to say to him...

Why would you even ask that? If they want to find it, they certainly can...