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Cockatrice Shut Down

Post #1 by Kaitscralt » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:04 pm

Arguably the biggest remaining way to play free online Magic has temporarily shut down due to "a legal dispute."

Thoughts?
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #2 by Pendulum » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:11 pm

I mean, I guess I've already gone on record as saying I don't like 'trice so this shouldn't come as a shock, but (assuming this isn't just a smokescreen or unrelated and that WotC is in fact trying to shut them down) I think this train has been too long a'comin' as it is. I know first hand how hard it is for a brick-and-mortar to compete with an online as it is, and having that option be free as well really does hurt the bottom line of both the corporation and the tertiary company structure.
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Post #3 by Pendulum » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:13 pm

Like bitching that the quality of Magic has declined over the years while simultaneously saying that you should have the ability to pay less (or in this case, nothing) to play the game doesn't make sense to me.
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Post #4 by Kaitscralt » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:26 pm

I don't know, as bad as MTGO is, I would go to it over Cockatrice if I was looking to do anything more than playtest against myself or a friend. Also, I like playing for prizes and making there be a point to the competition. I think there are a shit-ton of players with that mindset, and I imagine they all care as little about Cockatrice being free as me.
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #5 by Pendulum » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:27 pm

Kaitscralt » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:26 pm wrote:I don't know, as bad as MTGO is, I would go to it over Cockatrice if I was looking to do anything more than playtest against myself or a friend. Also, I like playing for prizes and making there be a point to the competition. I think there are a shit-ton of players with that mindset, and I imagine they all care as little about Cockatrice being free as me.

Jobs.

They're awesome like that.
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Post #6 by Kaitscralt » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:33 pm

Well the players who are getting their sole MTG experience through Cockatrice are doing it wrong.
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #7 by Pendulum » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:14 pm

Cockatrice allows the people who would spend $20 for their right to play to skip that step and just play it for free, though.
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Post #8 by Zionite » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:44 pm

I was a fan of Magic Workstation back in highschool. It was nice because I was a kid who just wanted to test different decks or play online with my friends. We still bought cards and went to events, but we weren't about to shell out money that could go to physical cards to play online.

The problem with MGO is that there's not a lot of replay value unless you have a massive collection. Typically I go on and do a couple of drafts every couple of months or so until I realize I'm spending my money too quickly. It's a lot of fun but there should be other, free options for when I don't want to spend money but still want to play Magic.

For that I've been using the Magic 2013 game on my console, since it's a single payment and lots of replay value.

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Post #9 by Scott » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:50 pm

Can't say this comes as a shock. I use it from time to time to play against my brother, who lives about an hour away. Not the best way to play Magic, but it was great for what it was. I have a hard time imagining it getting shut down permanently though.
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Post #10 by Pendulum » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:10 pm

Speaking of which, does anybody actually have verifiable evidence that this dispute has anything to do with Hasbro? I remember hearing an internet legend that they were basing the whole thing off third-party software and it would bite them in the ass one day, so I'm still on the fence that it's even about the cards.
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Post #11 by Sir Sapphire the 3rd » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:22 pm

http://cockatrice.de/

I have received a letter from a law firm representing Hasbro Germany, expressing a strong feeling of dislike for our project, backed up with legal claims. Regardless of whether the claims they are making are factually correct or not, I have agreed to shut down the project in its current form. As soon as this is completely sorted out, development work will be put into keeping alive the code base in such a way that it can be used for other purposes.

I deeply appreciate all the support from the community and hope to see all of you again soon. I will keep you posted if there are any news.

2013/02/27
Max-Wilhelm Bruker <brukie@gmx.net>

Forum thread

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Post #12 by Kaitscralt » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:27 pm

From a Cockatrice mod on Reddit:

Right, I'll tell you what I know (which isn't much).
Hasbro sent Brukie a big letter. What was in this letter, I don't know the specifics of.
But the gist of it is, Brukie could be made to pay "unspecified but possibly huge amounts of money"
He's now waiting to hear from his legal counsel.
Whether or not Cockatrice will be able to go back up is unknown. Right now I'd imagine the priority is for Brukie to reach a settlement with Hasbro.
Here it is in his own words.

I have received what you might call a C&D letter from Hasbro's lawyers. I say "what you might call" because not only do they want me to shut down, but they also require me to sign a form that basically says I will have to pay a yet unspecified amount of damages. I do believe most of their claims are wrong though. The deadline for sending back this form had already passed when I got the letter in
my hands, so I'll have to sort this out with the lawyers first as soon as they're available. I'll keep you posted.

UPDATE: There appears to have been some sort of settlement in which Brukie avoids having to pay damages. They just want him to shut down the project.
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #13 by Scott » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:28 pm

May or may not matter, but someone started a petition. There's always a petition for these sorts of things.

https://www.change.org/petitions/hasbro ... cockatrice
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Post #14 by Kaitscralt » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:35 pm

Lol, I like how the guy who made the petition uses himself as one of the "others" quoted in his post.

Oddly enough, this forums "Enizzle" seems to be there as well. You're a star, Enizzle!

Anyways, that petition is only in the "may not matter" category. Won't sign. I don't particularly care about Cockatrice anyways, it being down just motivates me to use MTGO more which I want to do anyways, so Hasbro is already succeeding.
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #15 by Scott » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:54 pm

Thing about Trice is I don't think the majority of people on there were using it as their primary means to play Magic, and if they were... Well, I feel bad for them. It was fine and dandy to do some play testing, or maybe occasionally have a fun pickup game if you couldn't get out, but I doubt it was pulling much, if any, revenue away from Hasbro.
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Post #16 by Kaitscralt » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:57 pm

Definitely not. I even found great use in it at times. I just go with the flow and am pretty cold!
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #17 by Yannaria » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:21 am

I am really cheap and even I still pay to play magic and used cockatrice occasionally to test a deck before I bought it

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Post #18 by Captain Murphy » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:13 am

Fucking hell. I love my free magic at times.

Back to MWS I guess
Tom Servo » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:15 pm wrote:It's too bad we don't have a secret subforum where we can coordinate troll attempts where only we can see so that we don't have to catch on because only one of us is an actual rocket scientist.

Clownfish » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:51 pm wrote:I am particularly interested in committing internet genocide

Kaitscralt » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:37 pm wrote:in soviet gutter, New York somewhere in you

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Post #19 by Kaitscralt » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:44 am

Magic Work Station *shudders*
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #20 by Zionite » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:17 am

Kaitscralt » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:44 pm wrote:Magic Work Station *shudders*

Was Cockatrice better? I really liked MWS for what it did. Sure it was manual as hell, but if you played correctly then there were no issues. And I also liked that it made me learn the rules of the game and the stack, because no one was going to play with you if you weren't doing it right and patience was low for newbies.

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Post #21 by Captain Murphy » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:38 am

I agree and I always liked the simple look of MWS
Tom Servo » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:15 pm wrote:It's too bad we don't have a secret subforum where we can coordinate troll attempts where only we can see so that we don't have to catch on because only one of us is an actual rocket scientist.

Clownfish » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:51 pm wrote:I am particularly interested in committing internet genocide

Kaitscralt » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:37 pm wrote:in soviet gutter, New York somewhere in you

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Post #22 by Kaitscralt » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:11 pm

MWS ShmemWS
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #23 by ( G_R ) » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:52 pm

People have said the magic words: play test. If MTGO offered a way to playtest decks you have yet to buy, there would be no need for software like this. Using a land that says "JTMS" in sharpie before actually spending cash on the card is common practice in paper Magic. Digital Magic needs something like this, and MWS, 'trice, OCTGN and the like have filled that gap that's been left open so far in MODO.

Mcdonalds » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:20 pm wrote:That explains why people keep coming over for chicken nuggets

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Post #24 by Scott » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:03 pm

( G_R ) » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:52 am wrote:People have said the magic words: play test. If MTGO offered a way to playtest decks you have yet to buy, there would be no need for software like this. Using a land that says "JTMS" in sharpie before actually spending cash on the card is common practice in paper Magic. Digital Magic needs something like this, and MWS, 'trice, OCTGN and the like have filled that gap that's been left open so far in MODO.


This. I hate dropping cash on cards that end up going into a trade binder or box and never see the light of day again. "Oh, that sounds like a great idea," has come out of my mouth so many times, and been so very wrong even more. It was a great tool for testing, regardless of if you were eventually getting the card on
MTGO or in real life.
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Post #25 by Yannaria » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:22 pm

a playtest area on mtgo would make me relook at that program

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Post #26 by Zionite » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:22 pm

I thought that's what the new revamped MGO was for? It looks a lot like 2013 now.

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Post #27 by Thrillho » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:03 pm

It's an issue of entitlement that people want to play with a product that normally costs money to use for free, at the end of the day. I feel for people who don't want to buy cards online and/or don't have a way to playtest with a sharpie and some basic lands IRL, but the bottom line is it's not your game to say is/isn't for free. And if you're able to play for free, that's less activity supporting MODO at any level (and many people do use free programs as their only way to playtest, etc, so there's also that).

Having a free way to play Magic online is bad for Wizards' bottom line, which does at some point go on to hurt the players. And yes, I know that's a complaint of "one less gold toilet bowl for x-executive means exponentially smaller amounts of tournament support for everyone" and boo who who for the big company, tiny violin, etc, but it's their IP and if they want to manage it and make sure other
people don't have control over it in other settings, that's their right.

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Post #28 by Thrillho » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:04 pm

free "playtest mode" options would be really good, but would also hurt the dealer economy in MODO and probably do a lot of damage to the secondary market in the process.

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Post #29 by Kaitscralt » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:11 pm

You guys can talk about playtesting all you want, but there's no difference between doing that before you order some cards and doing that forever. Most people using Cockatrice are doing it forever.

That's not playtesting, it's playing.
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Post #30 by Kaitscralt » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:14 pm

And I say this as someone who actually uses Cockatrice for playtesting for real events. I like the program but I can see why Hasbro goes after it.
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #31 by poggydude » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:00 pm

ive been working on trying to aquire modern, e format, in its entirety mostly from all the time ive spent on it through cockatrice, i understand all the time ive been on cockatrice could be classified as "playing" but it lead to actual purchases.

im not bemoaning hasbros decision, not only was it well within their right, cockatrice was also potentially damaging to business for them. I'm just saying that cockatrice had a TON of positives and definitely will need a suitable replacement

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Post #32 by imopen2 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:47 pm

I used MWS extensively for many years because i couldn't afford MTGO and I preferred it to Cockatrice. I have a job now, though, so I am exclusively using MTGO. When I ant to play magic for free i cube draft or play Shandalar.
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Post #33 by Manders » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:14 pm

Kaitscralt » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:33 pm wrote:Well the players who are getting their sole MTG experience through Cockatrice are doing it wrong.

Or are just doing it for fun.

It's no secret I can't afford to buy cards or an MTGO account, but on top of that, I don't want to pay for something that I do occasionally for fun. I'm well aware that I'm in the minority on that, but that doesn't negate the fact that people like me exist. People like me are not high enough in number as to bankrupt Hasbro, though. If you want to compete and/or win prizes, you have to pay for the privilege. Everyone knows that. So, I don't see how it's going to hurt Hasbro in the least to allow this site to continue. They will still have people paying for and dedicated to MTGO for
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Post #34 by Kaitscralt » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:29 pm

Hasbro is treating you bums like kings and queens and you don't even know it. For just ten bucks you can get some commons and uncommons from a core set to make a free deck and play casually online with it FOREVER!
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #35 by Zionite » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:32 pm

Kaitscralt » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:29 pm wrote:Hasbro is treating you bums like kings and queens and you don't even know it. For just ten bucks you can get some commons and uncommons from a core set to make a free deck and play casually online with it FOREVER!

Until the next set comes out then your cards are worthless.

And it's not like the random junk I pick from drafts will ever mesh together into something good enough to play with in constructed. It really is just a one-time fun fest and then the cards just languish in my inventory.

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Post #36 by Kaitscralt » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:03 pm

I was definitely joking with how bad the free cards they give are at the start of MTGO.
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #37 by Thrillho » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:21 pm

I redeemed roughly 10 of those 9th Edition MODO starter sets after the Wizards booth was literally tossing them out for free during the NYCC Guildpact came out during (I remember because there was also a "roll this oversized 20-sided die to win your choice of Wizards product/s from the prize pool" game that I gamed to win just short of a box of Guildpact in). The free stuff you get for MODO is mostly terrible unless there's an online product redemption coupon, like for packs, tickets, or the like, that comes with it. I don't believe that was the case with the 9th starters, nor do I think they still have those, but there's nothing like giving people their first hit free to get recurring customers. Just ask WoW and crack dealers.

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Post #38 by poggydude » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:37 am

itt Maverick playing the role of legal scholar. Oscar incoming

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Post #39 by poggydude » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:39 am

just because wizards hosts the images for free doesnt mean cockatrice has free reign to take and use them.

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Post #40 by Kaitscralt » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:55 am

I'm pretty sure Gatherer has the literal sentence, "Take and use these images, as long as you're not profiting off of it."
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.


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