Aggressive Variants(POST ROTATION) JESKAI BURN

Aggressive variant decks that have top 8'd a relevant event within the past 8 weeks.

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(POST ROTATION) JESKAI BURN

Post #1 by BiddingMaster » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:18 am

[deck]SPELLS

4 lightning strike
3 stoke the flames
4 chained to the rocks
4 magma jet
4 jeskai charm
4 mindswipe
2 searing blood
4 deflecting palm

CREATURES

4 mantis rider
4 satyr firedancer

LANDS

2 temple of triumph
2 temple of epiphany
4 flooded strand
10 mountain
3 plains
2 island

SIDEBOARD

2 scouring sands
3 chandra pyromaser
4 eidolon of the great revel
1 mana confluence
3 suspension field
2 searing blood[/deck]

so far with what has been spoiled I think we still have a shot at a post rotation burn deck that is similar in build to the one that we currently are using in standard. Though sadly we dont have young pyromancer and chandra's phoenix anymore im wondering if mantis rider and satyr firedancer can take their places until we find something better. This is just a rough draft of the deck and im going to proxy it up and play with my local play group.
Hopefully I can work out enough of the decks problems namely the mana base and i am playing against a gauntlet of fast aggro and the block decks we have seen from the pro tour journey into nyx will give me an idea of how to tweak it and find out if its worth the money to shell out for it. Hopefully you guys find this deck as interesting as I and are enthusiastic to find a new cool burn deck for the future format.

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Post #2 by RedNihilist » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:53 am

Mindswipe is a trap card imho.
Ignoring Battlefield Forge and Shivan Reef is a mistake imho.
Maindecking the Firedancer could be a good call, but it's too early to know right now.

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Post #3 by Jamie » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:54 am

I think Deflecting Palm is really strong here. If you keep mana up for it, there will be a lot of situations where your opponent has to play around it super hard giving you more drawsteps to win. Of course, they won't play around it if they don't get decimated by it once or twice first...

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Post #4 by Purp » Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:16 pm

Good thing the title is in all caps, otherwise I would of missed it.
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yurp yurp

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Post #5 by Kaitscralt » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:09 pm

4 Mindswipe is horrible, also I would consider mainboarding Eidolon in an unknown format
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #6 by Kaitscralt » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:10 pm

0 Mindswipe is probably correct
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #7 by RedNihilist » Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:21 pm

^

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Post #8 by Khaospawn » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:27 pm

Deflecting Palm is too reactive.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #9 by Jamie » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:41 am

Idk why not just roll 4 color burn and add some black up in that shit

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Post #10 by BiddingMaster » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:12 am

Jamie » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:41 pm wrote:Idk why not just roll 4 color burn and add some black up in that shit


we technically are 4 colors since we need such a heavy commitment to basic mountains to play any number of chained to the rocks. 4 may be too many but I have to start from somewhere and 4 seems interesting.

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Post #11 by BiddingMaster » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:21 am

Khaospawn » Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:27 pm wrote:Deflecting Palm is too reactive.

the same can be said of chained to the rocks since it only hits creatures and is situational. I like deflecting palm because at worst its a shitty lightning helix and possibly suck a huge blowout. I think the upside is worth the risk. Even the control deck in this format i suspect will run some number of creatures since our sweeper in 5 cmc. and if bug becomes the next big control deck they will have to have creatures because we can easilly kill planeswalkers.

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Post #12 by BiddingMaster » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:36 am

Kaitscralt » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:09 am wrote:4 Mindswipe is horrible, also I would consider mainboarding Eidolon in an unknown format


i agree that there are going to be matches where we have like three mindswipe in hand and we just die. For testing purposes to see how bad they are in multiples i want to run the max. Im thinking that if bulky midrange decks become the norm for the metagame I can see where countering nissa's, dragons, polukranos, that 5/4 that drains life would be good. The reason mindswipe appeals to me is if nissa and grey merchant become a problem in the new format its a nice answer for either one. we have lost the ability to negate life gain and I feel like people might be playing enough green mana sources to justify nylea's disciple and there was a mono black devotion
deck that didnt quite top 8 and I think it went top 25 though. Im also really worried about the aggro matchup and i think eidolon shines best in a known meta rather than an unkown one.

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Post #13 by BiddingMaster » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:39 am

Jamie » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:41 pm wrote:Idk why not just roll 4 color burn and add some black up in that shit


assuming it could work what would black add to the deck that would fix and inherent problem with the list?

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Post #14 by BiddingMaster » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:39 am

and thanks for all the support guys.

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Post #15 by Jasper » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:51 am

Monastery Swiftspear

Monastery Swiftspear [mana]r[/mana]
Creature - Human Monk
Uncommon
Haste, Prowess
1/2

Praise be to the gods.

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Post #16 by Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:54 am

BiddingMaster » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:21 am wrote:
Khaospawn » Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:27 pm wrote:Deflecting Palm is too reactive.

the same can be said of chained to the rocks since it only hits creatures and is situational. I like deflecting palm because at worst its a shitty lightning helix and possibly suck a huge blowout. I think the upside is worth the risk. Even the control deck in this format i suspect will run some number of creatures since our sweeper in 5 cmc. and if bug becomes the next big control deck they will have to have creatures because we can easilly kill planeswalkers.

nWho the fuck wants to play with a "shitty lightning helix?"

Chain to the Rocks is hard removal. It's guaranteed to do something. It is isn't situational. It's in your deck specifically to deal with creatures, which is a certainty in almost every matchup.

You just want to live the dream and experience some "what if" blowout. I get it. But don't tell me that some reactive card that's only capable of dealing damage provided what your opponent may or may not be packing is better than some actual hard removal, a threat, or even a real burn spell.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #17 by BiddingMaster » Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:04 am

If its only a shitty lightning helix 25% of the time and a lightning helix plus 75% of the time ill take those odds.

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Post #18 by Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:55 am

You sure do use a lot of "ifs"
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #19 by LP, of the Fires » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:05 am

The problem is that, like mindswipe, it's just a lava spike. Burn that ONLY goes to the face is unplayable outside of dedicated burn decks and that's what deflecting palm does.

If you would like me to give a detailed explanation, I'll copy/paste a facebook post I made related to mindswipe that's similarly applicable here.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


Patrick chapin

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Post #20 by Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:35 am

Do it, LP! Spin that wheel!
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #21 by BiddingMaster » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:03 pm

Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:55 am wrote:You sure do use a lot of "ifs"


well what do you want me to do? I cant accurately predict how card x will perform in format y. If I could id be the best magic player ever for the first three months of a new format. Every card on this list is only good if the format im prepping for comes to fruition which i expect alot of durdly midrange creature decks. If my predictions are right then my cards are good and if they are not then my deck will changed or be discarded. This list is just the starting point to test to see how cards perform against a test gauntlet of the style of decks that I expect to face. Eventually when I have the time and the money to travel ill be playing this configuration with proxies to see how they work. None of this
is tested yet.

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Post #22 by BiddingMaster » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:11 pm

LP, of the Fires » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:05 am wrote:The problem is that, like mindswipe, it's just a lava spike. Burn that ONLY goes to the face is unplayable outside of dedicated burn decks and that's what deflecting palm does.

If you would like me to give a detailed explanation, I'll copy/paste a facebook post I made related to mindswipe that's similarly applicable here.


id like any feedback possible. Deflecting palm if it gets to deal three damage to the face then it would in fact have to prevent three damage so its a lava spike plus a healing salve. which in the grand scheme of things is not so bad if all we need to do is assemble enough incidental damage with mantis rider and burn spells. I think mindswipe is the most speculative card on the list and might deserve the cut but im
hoping im right like I was taking eidolon of the great revel in the main expecting alot of junk at my last scg open. Im guessing I should explain the format im hoping this do to well in to give you guys a better picture of how this deck will be positioned in the new meta.

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Post #23 by Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:13 pm

When the metagame consists of durdly decks, you want fast, proactive cards that will take them out before they can get to the mid game because their mid game cards will most certainly outclass yours

At best, Palm will be a niche sideboard card
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #24 by Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:14 pm

Holding up Palm for a best case scenario robs you of time to actually do something to win the game
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #25 by Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:15 pm

Holding up Palm


Lol I crack myself up!
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #26 by BiddingMaster » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:18 pm

all removal is reactionary so saying one reactionary card is bad over another on the same hand of being reacitonary doesnt say anything at all. The only cards that are not reactionary are things when played on an empty board advance the board state.

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Post #27 by BiddingMaster » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:18 pm

if they are not doing anyting that is advantage us

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Post #28 by Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:24 pm

Palm isn't removal and it doesn't advance your plan

What don't you understand?
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #29 by Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:27 pm

When you ask for advice on a deck and then choose to ignore solid evaluations and also choose to adamantly defend your theoretical brew choices, it makes me think that you're probably better off posting Sally

:P
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #30 by BiddingMaster » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:23 pm

for this debate to continue we have to agree on whether or not removal and deflecting palm are both reactionary cards which is your main point against it. I consider reactionary cards to be any form of removal/coutnerspells/bounce spells since these card require targets that are not always present. Your opponent has to do something for us to use these cards so therefore they are all reactionary just like preventing damage and redirecting it. How do you feel about this evaluation khaos?

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Post #31 by Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:42 pm

My main point is that Palm isn't proactive

It's not even removal

It doesn't do anything

At least removal eliminates a threat while Palm allows the threat to remain! How is this good!?

Comparing removal and Palm is like apples and oranges
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #32 by BiddingMaster » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:56 pm

Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:42 am wrote:My main point is that Palm isn't proactive

It's not even removal

It doesn't do anything

At least removal eliminates a threat while Palm allows the threat to remain! How is this good!?

Comparing removal and Palm is like apples and oranges


im trying to get to the point of identifying what is and what is not proactive and reactive. define to me what is a proactive card and a reactive card.

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Post #33 by Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:59 pm

This all comes down to the deck as a whole - you call it Burn. Burn decks are proactive and aggressive by nature. With a few, small exceptions you want all your cards to be doing something to pressure the opponent. Key removal spells are needed, like Chains, because they are usually universal and can deal with threats that most burn can't handle



If you want a reactive control deck, then I'd suggest you start over and make a control deck
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #34 by Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:02 pm

Palm just isn't a good card, period
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #35 by BiddingMaster » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:07 pm

boros burn is called a burn deck but zemanjaski claims that is a tempo deck. we have cards that are reactive and proactive and cards that can act both. ok, ill concede that this deck is bad and I probably should be working on a control instead. Now I want you to define for me what defines as a reactive card and proactive card and give examples of why as I have.

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Post #36 by Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:13 pm

You know what those terms mean

Stop being difficult
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #37 by BiddingMaster » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:26 pm

This deck is not fast enough to be a dedicated burn deck. It is going to have to have tempo deck. So technically I should have labeled the deck as jeskai tempo. Deflecting palm generates tempo by relieving the decks main problem of needing to stay alive and point damage at our opponents face. Is that a fair enough assessment?

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Post #38 by Khaospawn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:28 pm

Dude, if you want to run a bad card, go right ahead
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #39 by BiddingMaster » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:32 pm

im trying to find some common ground here to we dont just keep butting heads

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Post #40 by RedNihilist » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:47 pm

Let's just say that a card that doesn't actually do anything on her own its something we usually don't want to see.


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