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Post #721 by imopen2 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:28 am

oh yea, and your case on red is based a lot on assumptions and analysis simply of his interactions with kaze (which were mostly initiated by kaze and therefore not necessarily indicative of red's mentality). not very strong imo
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Post #722 by Wraith223 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:04 am

:toot: unvote

Glad to see others wondering the same issues I have been percolating on. To much of Stardust's opinion is based on faith and on his terms without risk of any confirmed info on him. I would rather risk my vote on the fact red is town on the confirm able info I have found. His claim that red is direct counter to his ability is odd. Is he a day vig or scum with some super ability? Imopen2 called kaze out on the speed vote, thus I am inclined to believe imopen2 over stardust, who was bloodthirsty that first day.

Think I will role with an imopen2 and red as one is in my strongest town pile. Have to follow my gut as it did not like stardust day 1 in this game.

vote stardust

Damn, thought I was going crazy thinking I was the only one who thought stardust was over
selling his agenda.
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Post #723 by Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:04 pm

Ugh, you people.

Yes imopen, you were first on Kaze. But you didn't start his wagon. That shit was going nowhere until I got there and I will take the credit, thanks. I had a town read on you and you were on him... maybe I wouldn't have caught it it if weren't for you. Who knows. Doesn't change the fact that I led that thing (though I suppose you did steer me back onto it at one point, so sure, ya did good).

I also haven't extracted a claim from a single person. Not one. Oh, sorry, yes, I did do Dechs. But that was for good reason. Every claim I asked for Day 2 had already been posted, I just wanted it laid out so there was no ambiguity. rezmo claimed town because of me, woohoo.

As for directing power roles, the only reason I haven't been pushing a Dechs lynch today is because he's claimed vig. Hell yes I'm going to direct him. Why should scumdust care who he shoots otherwise? He's consistently had a town
read on me since late in Day 1. Lynch rezmo, shoot LMD, lynch Dechs sounds like a pretty good line from scumdust's point of view, right? I don't understand why we're even having this conversation...


RedNihilist » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:44 pm wrote:What strikes me the most, though, is that even though we had the chance of abusing my very informative role, he just doesn't care

Your role is not very informative. As far as I'm concerned, you're a rolecop.

RedNihilist » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:44 pm wrote:I don't like the fact that he started out by voting me by barning Kaze, then started massaging my belly for how town I was, then started accusing me of being Kaze's buddy because I didn't feel threatened by Kaze's aggression, even though Kaze's
always like that on Day 1, even though this imopen2 post pretty much sums up everything one should say about him.
Also, I don't know how purposefully he's ignoring the fact that I was very invested on the other game I was playing during most of Day 1, up to the point that I effectively missed being at L-1 at one point - from when Gone Postal ended, there has been effectively no wagon on me, so I don't really get why I should have been that bothered by a player that just seemed to have lost all kind of motivation back then.

I don't think I ever said you should feel threatened. But you should interact on some level.

RedNihilist » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:44 pm wrote:Now, things get awry.
Stardust jumps out of nowhere with this unexpected moment of brilliance, followed up shortly by this exchange, to which Kaze answers immediately in a sarcastic way then disappears ABRUPTLY AND FOREVER from the whole site.
That's not *that* bad, people have real lives and things and I hope Kaze is good and all, but the way Stardust follows up with a set of posts explicitly stating that he's not going to want for an answer makes me think that he knew what was up and was desperate to throw him under the bus in order to squeeze some value from his departure, given the fact that he would have gone on playing alone anyway.
Because, you know, "Sporadic play + results = townie Stardust. Sporadic play + no results = scary Stardust.".

I don't really know where you're going with all this.
That's how things went down, yeah, but I never treated Kaze's abscence as anything more than some small proof that he might be scum. It had nothing to do with my initial case and vote, which I fully expected a response to.

Can you quote where I said I didn't want a response? I just searched my own posts and definitely never said anything like that.

RedNihilist » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:44 pm wrote:He even starts setting me up asking Kaze to case me (whoops! he never did, that makes me his buddy!), and asking me who I considered scummier between Kaze and Wraith, a player that we both, correctly, labeled as non-town.

1) I asked Kaze to case you so that I could catch him. I didn't think he had a case on you. I definitely didn't suspect you to be scum at that point, so this
was definitely not a setup.
2) You misunderstood that post. I wasn't asking who you thought was scummier. I was asking who you'd be willing to lynch since we were getting close to deadline. Now that you mention it, it was a bit weird for you to reply with "Kaze" given that Wraith was ahead of him on your scum list at the time.
3) You think I correctly called Wraith as neutral, called him town in thread to throw you guys off, then used the neutral to my advantage to try to get him lynched somehow while still pushing the Kaze wagon? I don't understand the scum mindset you're seeing here.

RedNihilist » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:44 pm wrote:Then, he set his trap. I said a couple of times I felt uneasy by the way he barned me as I was reminiscent of KNM when he played me like a puppet, and he suddenly went from "oh Red, you so town" to having me 100% scum, backing up his
claims with what I should / shouldn't have done even though I've always been fully honest, imaginary interactions between my old role and his not claimed role that make mine 100% scum (just believe me, guyz), closing with him wanting me to NOT use my role for investigative purposes because I need to die tonight for his plans.
Except that if he really believed the last scum to be one between me, DK and rez he could also ask for Wraith to roleblock DK rather than ham and set up rez while waiting for my results, lynch me tomorrow to confirm my results and act accordingly.
What's the difference here? Speed.
If he's wrong (purposefully or not) we go from 5-2-1 to 2-2-1 (mislynch + DK's guided nightkill + scumkill) and we enter a situation where ham and Wraith can just not vote each other and pretty much win without ever bother helping town anymore if I got this setup right.

Should we crunch the numbers for your scenario too? 5-2-1 today. We lynch one of you three and DK get blocked.
Tomorrow we're 3-2-1. We lynch one of you three and DK gets blocked (if he hasn't been lynched). Next day we're 1-2-1 if I'm wrong. How is this a better plan?

The neutrals will side with the town if it comes down to it. They almost always do because that's the only way to keep a game interesting for a neutral. At least we still have a game if I'm wrong whereas in your scenario we get the same number of kills (two) but end up down an extra townie, tied with the scum. Speed is important when we're racing against nightkills.

RedNihilist » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:44 pm wrote:Forgive me if I'm not too happy with the idea of handing the game over to him and quietly disappear hoping to be wrong all along.
I'd rather try to actively win this game rather than die with my fingers crossed hoping that someone else can win such game for me.

Have I been blazing my own trail
without asking for feedback? No! I've asked repeatedly what everyone else wants to do instead. So far no one has come up with a better plan. You've got a nice conspiracy theory, but what's more likely?
1) That I caught onto Kaze and got him lynched, and would like to lynch scum again Day 2, or
2) That I'm scum, bussed my buddy without reason (after intentionally making myself look bad by not casing Wraith), then argue over reads Day 2 instead of just letting the vig kill LMD.

This game would have been so easy as scum. The town had no direction Day 1. The town was moving in the wrong direction Day 2. A little push here and there and I've got the game. Instead I'm fighting the whole time and lynch my buddy for no reason? I don't know how you can seriously hold this position. Well, I do, I'm scary, but I'm also town.

And even if you do maintain that I'm scum, lynching me now makes no sense. Wraith already hates me, so you've got your third vote if we end up 2-2-1 and I'm scum. If Dechs
has a shot, he's town. If he doesn't, we'll end up at 3-2-1 instead and still be in a good position to talk. Basically, if my plan works, the game will be over. If it doesn't, you can still lynch me.
҉

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Post #724 by Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:13 pm

So what's the play from your perspective, imopen? Should I claim so Red can steal and confirm my ability? Still leaves us in a sticky situation tomorrow unless rezmo (or whoever we lynch) is scum. I'm more convinced now that it's Red anyway.
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Post #725 by rezombad » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:00 pm

Stardust » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:56 pm wrote:And that tells you what, exactly?

its the only thing that really stands out to me as weird. Not necessarily scummy.

I'm trying really hard not to modgame and look at interactions instead.

Does anyone else have an ability that is submitted during the day like red's (now wraiths)?
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Post #726 by rezombad » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:01 pm

Dechs Kaison » Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:23 am wrote:Fine, I'll shoot Red. Can we just hang Rez now and end this game?

this post is awful
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Post #727 by rezombad » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:17 pm

rezombad » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:00 am wrote:Does anyone else have an ability that is submitted during the day like red's (now wraiths)?

This is a very important question and I feel stupid for waiting so long to ask it.
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Post #728 by Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:25 pm

What are you hoping to prove with that question?
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Post #729 by rezombad » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:29 pm

Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:25 am wrote:What are you hoping to prove with that question?

that it being activated during the day and being of unlimited shots makes it a scum ability
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Post #730 by rezombad » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:29 pm

and that I'm a great card analyst.
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Post #731 by Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:31 pm

How does it prove that? You think that scum are more likely to have the only day-use ability in the game, or are you thinking someone's going to claim governor or something?
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Post #732 by rezombad » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:33 pm

Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:31 am wrote:How does it prove that? You think that scum are more likely to have the only day-use ability in the game, or are you thinking someone's going to claim governor or something?

His ability and mine are similar and the fact that his is unlimited use and activated during the day (allowing the use of a night ability wink) is off to me.
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Post #733 by rezombad » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:33 pm

unvote
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Post #734 by Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:48 pm

Huh. Is that a counterclaim? That would be quite convenient and reinforce my idea that one of you two must be scum.
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Post #735 by Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:49 pm

Actually, it just occurred to me that Red's ability makes no sense as a town roleblocker anyway. If both scum survive the first Day, that ability is 100% useless at stopping the nightkill since Red's target was notified immediately following Day's end.
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Post #736 by rezombad » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:54 pm

town one-shot double roleblocker

vote red
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Post #737 by Dechs Kaison » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:57 pm

rezombad » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:54 pm wrote:town one-shot double roleblocker

vote red


Explains no night kill well enough.

unvote
Vote Red Nihilist


I'm still going to shoot you if he flips town.


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Post #738 by Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:58 pm

Yeah, I think I've seen enough. Let's just win toDay.

Unvote, Vote Red.

BTW, I am totally comfortable being the lynch tomorrow if this fails. With the counterclaim and the fact that his ability can't be town anyway, that bumps me up from 75% sure to 98%. The last 2% is rezmo is scum, but Dechs will shoot him if this lynch fails and you'll still have the numbers to lynch me anyway. Okay? Okay.
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Post #739 by Dechs Kaison » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:59 pm

I'd just like to say that this was one hell of a day (as in, 24 hours) to catch up on.

Woah. My head's still spinning.


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Post #740 by Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:00 pm

Dechs Kaison » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:57 am wrote:Explains no night kill well enough.

If I had to take a guess, I'd say that rezmo chose not to use his ability last night. Pretty sure I'm the reason there was no nightkill.

rezmo, you should confirm that since if Red flips town you'll likely not get the chance to tell us your targets. Unless you block Dechs tonight, I guess. Whatever, it doesn't matter. Red is scum. We win.
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Post #741 by Wraith223 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:12 pm

Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:49 am wrote:Actually, it just occurred to me that Red's ability makes no sense as a town roleblocker anyway. If both scum survive the first Day, that ability is 100% useless at stopping the nightkill since Red's target was notified immediately following Day's end.


:o :o :o :o :o :o
n
Wow. It never occurred to me to think that.......wait......I do the same thing but their ability still goes off? :|

Thought?
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Post #742 by rezombad » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:14 pm

Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:00 am wrote:
Dechs Kaison » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:57 am wrote:Explains no night kill well enough.

If I had to take a guess, I'd say that rezmo chose not to use his ability last night. Pretty sure I'm the reason there was no nightkill.

rezmo, you should confirm that since if Red flips town you'll likely not get the chance to tell us your targets. Unless you block Dechs tonight, I guess. Whatever, it doesn't matter. Red is scum. We win.

id say youre on to something
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Post #743 by rezombad » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:14 pm

Wraith223 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:12 am wrote:
Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:49 am wrote:Actually, it just occurred to me that Red's ability makes no sense as a town roleblocker anyway. If both scum survive the first Day, that ability is 100% useless at stopping the nightkill since Red's target was notified immediately following Day's end.


:o :o :o :o :o :o

Wow. It never occurred to me to think that.......wait......I do the same thing but their ability still goes off? :|

Thought?

he's saying that if there were 2 scum, and 1 was disabled, they would be notified and the other scum would do the night-killing
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Post #744 by Dechs Kaison » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:15 pm

Wraith223 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:12 pm wrote:
Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:49 am wrote:Actually, it just occurred to me that Red's ability makes no sense as a town roleblocker anyway. If both scum survive the first Day, that ability is 100% useless at stopping the nightkill since Red's target was notified immediately following Day's end.


:o :o :o :o :o :o

Wow. It never occurred to me to think that.......wait......I do the same thing but their ability still goes off? :|

Thought?


You read that wrong. It's an ability you use in the day that lets you still perform an action at night (i.e. night kill).

The ability basically only makes sense as a scum power.


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Post #745 by Wraith223 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:20 pm

Daaaaaaaammmmmmmnnnnnn. I has been schooled. :B

My ability is only used at night. Wow. Never thought about it like that. I hope I am wrong about stardust.


unvote.

Vote Red


DK feel free to throw all the waffling comments at me. I so deserve it. :no:

Ham, activate YOLO mode!
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Post #746 by hamfactorial » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:22 pm

Oh snap, that escalated quickly.

Intent to hammer. Anyone want to hear from Red before I go full yolo?

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Post #747 by Dechs Kaison » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:28 pm

Ham, Red laid out a great case. Stardust just ripped it to pieces. I don't need to hear anything. Flawless plan is flawless. If Stardust is actually wrong, we just hang him tomorrow.


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Post #748 by Wraith223 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:30 pm

hamfactorial » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:22 pm wrote:Oh snap, that escalated quickly.

Intent to hammer. Anyone want to hear from Red before I go full yolo?



Red was my strongest town read until stardust just through that fact in my face as irrefutable evidence for scum.

Still in shock how I missed that.
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Post #749 by Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:37 pm

Yeah, go for it ham. If this doesn't work, I'm lynched tomorrow anyway. Red can't give us anything he hasn't already.
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Post #750 by hamfactorial » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:38 pm

Vote Red

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Post #751 by imopen2 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:47 pm

Well I see I've missed the boat. Hope you guys are right...
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Post #752 by Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:56 pm

Nah, I'm scum and just hoping to survive for one more day for no reason at all.

Seriously, ya'll should remember this game for next time you're pulling out some conspiracy theories for how I might possibilty somehow be scum despite my extremely townie actions.
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Post #753 by Dechs Kaison » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:06 pm

So, here's the way I see this playing out.

Scenario 1. Red flips scum.
Either a) game is over and we win or b) Ham is actually a Serial Killer and I shoot him and we win. Hooray.

Scenario 2. Red flips town.
Either Rez or Star or Dechs is the scum. I will shoot Rez, essentially validating my claim. If Rez flis town, that clears him, too, and we hang Stardust in the morning. We win. Hooray.


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Post #754 by hamfactorial » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:07 pm

Yay everybody wins!

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Post #755 by Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:38 pm

Yay! Everyone but Kaze wins!

You played really well, Red. You really are super good at writing like a townie. Unless you are a townie, then you did less good. ;)
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Post #756 by Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:41 pm

I also love how in Dechs' scenarios he identifies himself as possible scum, but you just lynch me anyway.
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Post #757 by Dechs Kaison » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:42 pm

That's because my ability use will have proved I'm town and you're all that's left. I mean, if I don't kill anyone, then we of course lynch me.


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Post #758 by Wraith223 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:28 pm

If red roles roles scum; I wonder what he thought about me calling him out in the "time to pull some strings" comment? Still kicking myself for not thinking about reds ability more. Is jailer a town ability or general scum ability?
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Post #759 by Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:34 pm

Jailer is generally town. No reason it couldn't be scum but I've never seen it. Keep in mind that Jailer is a common fake-claim for a scum roleblocker.
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Post #760 by Stardust » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:36 pm

And I've changed the colour of my name again, as per your request. I trust that this colour will make you implicitly trust me in future games.
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