Completed GamesSOA Mafia: Season One -- Day Four

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Post #561 by rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:27 pm

Witchhunt and dechs had investigative roles as well.
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Post #562 by rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:29 pm

So your case for me being scum is that... I copped ham night 2...

Is that all?
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Post #563 by RedNihilist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:37 pm

rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:27 pm wrote:Witchhunt and dechs had investigative roles as well.


Last time I checked, none of them were town.

rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:29 pm wrote:So your case for me being scum is that... I copped ham night 2...

Is that all?


You're scum because I don't believe you're a cop, you just bussed WitchHunt in order to get some towncred then leaned on Stardust to get me killed.

Your last stunt proves that.

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Post #564 by RedNihilist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:41 pm

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Post #565 by rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:51 pm

If I were scum, why would I bus witch hunt if we were in mlyl?

Also why would my method of doing that be a counterclaim on the cop part of his boat claim?

If I'm not what I say I am, then why would I say I am?
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Post #566 by RedNihilist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:10 pm

But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool. You would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

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Post #567 by RedNihilist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:24 pm

rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:51 pm wrote:If I were scum, why would I bus witch hunt if we were in mlyl?


You're slipping.
If *I* were scum, why would *I* bus him?

rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:51 pm wrote:Also why would my method of doing that be a counterclaim on the cop part of his boat claim?


Towncred?

"Witchhunt has been gunned down by the citizens of Charming.

He was:
June Stahl - Role Blocker/Role Cop - Scum"

I guess you guys had a good idea of the active roles left at that point.

rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:51 pm wrote:If I'm not what I say I am, then why would I say I am?


Claiming neutral translates as:
"Stardust! Vote Red!"
"Red! Vote Stardust!"
"ham! Vote one of them so I can win!"
"Everyone! If you lynch me you lose!"

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Post #568 by rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:05 pm

Not everyone.

If I get lynched yoen loses.
If dusty gets lynched, town loses.
If ham gets ltnched, town loses.
If you get lynched, town wins and I'm guaranteed to win.
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Post #569 by Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:35 pm

Fuck me, that's a lot of words...

Unvote.

If this is a gambit by rezombad, it's frankly genius. Red's right though that my main reason for believing rezmo was town is out the window. At first glance Red's posts here feel good. I need to reread this.
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Post #570 by rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:54 pm

No... They dont
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Post #571 by Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:57 pm

Thank you for your contribution.
҉

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Post #572 by rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:18 pm

Occam's razor stardust.

Either I'm a cop with 2 town results.

Or

I'm some kind of badass mafia guy who, instead of winning day3, immediately bussed my partner after his claim... When he botched the cop part specifically
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Post #573 by Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:30 pm

So let's talk game balance.

Ham - 1-shot bulletproof
LMD - vanilla town
Stardust - doctor
Jaime - vengeful
RCW - 1-shot vig
Kpaca - 1-shot Bodyguard+Bomb

Dechs - Serial Killer+Stalker

Witchhunt - scum roleblocker/rolecop

Rez - neutral survivor cop
Red - vanilla town

On townside we've got three (!) killing roles, two protective roles and one (or two) vanilla town. We definitely don't have any investigative roles on townside, which is weird.

Scum have a roleblocker/rolecop and a role that can't be killed and their kill can't be prevented (there may be more to that role, but that seems unlikely, especially if rezombad is telling the truth about being a neutral survivor).

If rezombad is scum, we've got a nice 7-2 game with a serial killer thrown in. If Red is scum we've got a 6-2 game with a serial killer and a survivor. Does that even work? We started out with 10 alive, 6 votes to lynch. That's all the townies. If the serial killer is lynched Day 1 (which he was) and a townie is killed Night 1, we're at 8 alive, 5 to lynch with 5 townies remaining. Pretty fuckin' tight, but maaaaybe doable. Lynch the neutral puts us at 6 alive, 4 to lynch with four townies left Day 2. Lynch a townie puts us at 6 alive, 4 to lynch with three townies left, and we lose if the survivor claims and aligns with the scum. Not a big fan of that setup, but it might be balanced somewhat by all the town killing roles. We get less lynches, but get more kills to balance... could work. Maybe. The Serial Killer shifts that balance back at bit even though he doesn't result in a Day 2 town loss under any circumstance (lynch a townie, SK kills a townie, scum kill the SK puts us at 7 alive, 4 to lynch with four townies left). Oh, unless the town vig kills a townie too OR the town bomb kills the serial killer. I don't like Day 2 loss scenarios...

Overall, this analysis favours Red by a fair bit, I'd say. The game is really nicely balanced if he's town and is kind of a mess if he's not. Not a complete mess, but enough of a mess that it doesn't feel great.

Time to check this game out again.
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Post #574 by Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:34 pm

Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:30 am wrote:Scum have a roleblocker/rolecop and a role that can't be killed and their kill can't be prevented...

Wait a minute, that can't be right. hammy survived the kill Night 1. Then they dodged my protect two nights in a row? How does that make sense?

2-shot unblockable kill? Unblockable kill that's unlocked on Night 2 or some other way?

hammy, does your role indicate that it's special in any way?
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Post #575 by hamfactorial » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:38 pm

Despite all good mafia theory telling me not to make choices based on flavor, I'm going to because this game is special.

This game has been very flavorful, and all the roles have aligned strongly with their characters on the show.

  • The Vengeful Opie following his wife's death
  • Tig's loyalty & recklessness coinciding with his Bomb + Bodyguard ability. I have no idea why he talked like a dog the whole time :shrug:
  • Jax having a Vig shot (he shot Cohn in season 1)
  • My character (Clay) having a 1-shot bulletproof vest. He's shot by a rival gang in a S1 shootout, but survives.
  • Cohn being a Neutral investigative (stalker) role plus SK. He was obsessed with Tara and came to Charming to find her, then dug into SAMCRO when he found out Tara was fucking Jax Teller.
  • Tara being a doctor
  • Wayne being a survivor cop (his character has cancer, and was a cop during S1 before retiring)

Anyway, the flavor is strong with this one.

I suspect that Stardust is telling the truth about his role as Tara, because on day 1 he begins grilling DK about his role, specifically mentioning the girl he's obsessed with.

Stardust » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:47 am wrote:hammy (or someone else), who would the ATF agent's girl be? In the show, I mean.

Dechs' description of his role sounds more like a hitman than a survivor.


Stardust » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:51 am wrote:You target someone at night (trying to find your girlfriend, in this case). When you target the correct person, typically they die and you leave the game. In this case, maybe you just carry her away flavour-wise, but either way, we lose a townie.


Stardust » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:55 am wrote:Your flavour doesn't make sense for a survivor. What if your girl died before the game ended?

Your actions don't make sense for a survivor. What do you gain by drawing attention to yourself? How do you achieve your wincon after we "pry your claim from your PM"?


Clearly Stardust is looking out for his own ass here, which is how I'd expect someone who was Tara to play.

Then on day 2, during WitchHunt's JOAT claim SNAFU, he hints that he's a doctor.

Stardust » Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:56 am wrote:Oh, actually, WitchHunt is lying. 100%. I won't explain why I know that, but it's true.

I'll vote him in a bit. Maybe he'll get modkilled for us, and I do want to read Red and rezmo before we end the Day.


Then he becomes wary after I typo "doc".

hamfactorial » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:29 am wrote:Depending on what WitchHunt says about his doc ability, I'll claim today to disprove or verify him.


Stardust » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:11 am wrote:Huh. This might be more complicated than I realise...


We figured that silliness out today. You can read the "Y U NO" exchange to see what happened there.

I don't know if Stardust is a townie, but I believe he's a doctor.

-------------------------------------------------------

OK! Moving on to rezombad.

Rezombad claims that he investigated, in this order -

rezombad » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:55 am wrote:Night 1 Jamie town
Night 2 hamfactorial town
Night 3 stardust town


He hasn't voted for many people. He voted for DK on D1, then voted for Stardust on D2 until WitchHunt botched the JOAT claim, counter-claimed him on the cop aspect, then stayed there. He immediately voted for RedNihilist, declaring Stardust town. The sudden reversal is consistent with a player with an investigative role.

He claims to have investigated me on D2 after my bulletproof vest went POOF. He discusses his reasoning here -

rezombad » Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:36 pm wrote:But I'm pretty sure it's stardust+witchhunt at this point.

Last night I copped hamfactorial (I couldnt get past the idea that some kind of gambit involving using the mafia night kill on himself night one in order to get rid of his vest and get ez town creds. That and his use of those angry face smilies made me want to check him.) and he is town.

Night 1 I copped Jamie because of my day1 votecount analysis had him looking suspicious. That's why I was so adamant about him being town on day2.

-----

k game solved. gg.

pedit: yes. i already caught witch lying his fucking face off.

he is scum

he could be a scum joat

if he is a scum joat, he may have a role cop (since they know who is town [sans SK i suppose])

if he has a role cop, he doesnt get regular cop results (town/not-town)


Now we find out that he's a neutral cop survivor.

I don't know if he's a neutral, or a survivor, but I believe that he's a cop.

-------------------------------------------------------

I haven't finished ISOing RedNihilist yet, so I'll tack his portion onto this post. I see activity in the thread, so I'm pausing this one.

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Post #576 by hamfactorial » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:41 pm

Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:34 am wrote:
Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:30 am wrote:Scum have a roleblocker/rolecop and a role that can't be killed and their kill can't be prevented...

Wait a minute, that can't be right. hammy survived the kill Night 1. Then they dodged my protect two nights in a row? How does that make sense?

2-shot unblockable kill? Unblockable kill that's unlocked on Night 2 or some other way?

hammy, does your role indicate that it's special in any way?

No. The first time I'm targeted with a kill, it will not have an effect. Beyond that, I have no special abilities.

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Post #577 by Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:48 pm

It's just really strange. Not that it matters, but I can't quite figure out how that last scum role is supposed to work.
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Post #578 by Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:03 pm

rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:18 am wrote:I'm some kind of badass mafia guy who, instead of winning day3, immediately bussed my partner after his claim... When he botched the cop part specifically

Explain to me how you would have gone about winning Day 3 if you were scum. You tried and failed to get a wagon going on me. I post saying that I think the most likely scum team is rezombad and WitchHunt (which I still needed to confirm). Red votes for WitchHunt. WitchHunt votes for you, then goes all-in against you with a false claim.

Oh shit! This probably clears you as town based solely on WitchHunt's claim. He claimed to have a vig-shot attached to his JOAT role, which was a lie. If he lynched his scum buddy and failed to fire that night... he could have claimed to be roleblocked, I guess? Shit. This game is surprisingly hard. Especially since WitchHunt probably didn't expect to survive - he was probably planning for his lynch.

Anyway, my original point was that you, as WitchHunt's buddy, did not make the first move. He pushed against you after his own wagon started, which is pretty standard scum play, really. You pushed back equally hard which says nothing about your alignment since bussing in mylo is really super safe if you can pull it off.

So yeah, legit question there. If you were scum, what would you have done to seal the game Day 3?
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Post #579 by Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:32 pm

RedNihilist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:11 am wrote:... you're scum, we vote for a no lynch, you kill somebody (I guess ham) overnight and I enter Day 5 with scumYou and this Stardust guy that's trying to break the record for the guy who types "Vote RedNihilist" the most.

:rofl:

Red, if you are town, you really really don't need to worry about me being a Godfather. The opening Day 4 flavour basically clears me as town. The only reason I brought that up was because rezombad calling me town was making me uncomfortable. A cop result on me was not enough for that kind of certainty, especially not from rezombad who is the most paranoid town player I know.

This post is super solid. In answer to your interactions with DK, I was referring to the fact that you didn't want to lynch him following the neutral claim. I read that as slightly scummy in itself, but the fact that you seemed convinced that he was neutral specifically (and not lying mafia) is a bigger issue for me.


RedNihilist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:09 am wrote:
rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:01 pm wrote:Because I totally was like 'oh man, with the SK gone, the scum could totally gambit, use their bulletproof to get town creds and ride that to the end'.


Yeah, except for the fact that you claimed right now that you're not even town, so explain me how that could have made your life more difficult.

rezombad, I want you to talk about this. Why did you choose the players you did in light of the fact that you're a survivor?

Also, when you claimed cop Day 3, you suggested that you were going to be nightkilled following that. Was that a big concern for you? Why claim at all at that point?
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Post #580 by Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:41 pm

hamfactorial » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:38 am wrote:I don't know if he's a neutral, or a survivor, but I believe that he's a cop.

Above this quote you state that his reversal of attitude on me is consistent with a cop result. While that's true, rezombad had already claimed cop, so could have played along with the fake result he had already decided to make. The only actual evidence that rezmo is a cop is that one small breadcrumb regarding Jamie. That's good, but fairly weak, and counteracted (I think) by the fact that he didn't even consider the possibility that I was a Godfather. There was reasoning for that, but it doesn't strike me as townrezombad to be so trusting of a result in my case.

I'm looking forward to your read on RedNihilist, ham, because I'm a bit at a loss. I think I'm favouring a rezombad lynch now, and that scares me a bit.
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Post #581 by hamfactorial » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:07 pm

Yeah, I thought about the sudden reversal while I was driving to work.

The decision to cop me D2 was questionable as well. Even Red thought as much -

RedNihilist » Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:08 pm wrote:We needed a cop to tell us that ham was town.
This game is truly stellar.


I have Red's ISO open in a second tab, and the only remarkable thing is how unremarkable it is before today. The only notable thing I notice is his response to DK's D1 neutral claim -

RedNihilist » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:27 pm wrote:Unvote
This game is about catching scum, not about catching neutrals.

I'm off to office, I'll post more in an hour.


RedNihilist » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:23 am wrote:
RedNihilist » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:10 pm wrote:
Stardust » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:55 pm wrote:Your flavour doesn't make sense for a survivor. What if your girl died before the game ended?

Your actions don't make sense for a survivor. What do you gain by drawing attention to yourself? How do you achieve your wincon after we "pry your claim from your PM"?


May I ask you what's the point of all this?


Explanaining myself: I'm doubtful of his claim as well, but we can either:
- believe him, and hunt scum, and probably still end up hanging him later;
- don't believe him -> hang him now.

Assuming that he isn't town (it wouldn't make any sense), he can either flip scum or neutral, and in both cases we're left with two mafia players left to hang.

Care to explain me why we should start by hanging him rather than looking somewhere else before that?


His interaction today with rez is very interesting, and I'm going to read through the whole thing a few times.

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Post #582 by RedNihilist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:05 pm

rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:18 pm wrote:Occam's razor stardust.

Either I'm a cop with 2 town results.

Or

I'm some kind of badass mafia guy who, instead of winning day3, immediately bussed my partner after his claim... When he botched the cop part specifically


I believe you told us earlier that you had 3 town results.

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Post #583 by hamfactorial » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:12 pm

:ohdear:

Dat slip tho

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Post #584 by Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:29 pm

Meh.
҉

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Post #585 by rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:32 pm

RedNihilist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:05 am wrote:
rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:18 pm wrote:Occam's razor stardust.

Either I'm a cop with 2 town results.

Or

I'm some kind of badass mafia guy who, instead of winning day3, immediately bussed my partner after his claim... When he botched the cop part specifically


I believe you told us earlier that you had 3 town results.

Jamie's dead, son
Galspanic wrote:You post on dtr? Cool? Honestly, I don't know who posts there and who doesn't.

Galspanic wrote:I actually read that site quite a bit but its mostly because a lot of the people I used to interact with on MTGS are over there.

Manders wrote:It should be a privilege to post here

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Post #586 by hamfactorial » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:33 pm

I finished my RedNihilist read, but want to get some info before posting it.

@Red: At the start of D4, why did you immediately vote for rez?

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Post #587 by rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:37 pm

Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:32 am wrote:
RedNihilist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:11 am wrote:... you're scum, we vote for a no lynch, you kill somebody (I guess ham) overnight and I enter Day 5 with scumYou and this Stardust guy that's trying to break the record for the guy who types "Vote RedNihilist" the most.

:rofl:

Red, if you are town, you really really don't need to worry about me being a Godfather. The opening Day 4 flavour basically clears me as town. The only reason I brought that up was because rezombad calling me town was making me uncomfortable. A cop result on me was not enough for that kind of certainty, especially not from rezombad who is the most paranoid town player I know.

This post is super solid. In answer to your interactions with DK, I was referring to the fact that you didn't want to lynch him following the neutral claim. I read that as slightly scummy in itself, but the fact that you seemed convinced that he was neutral specifically (and not lying mafia) is a bigger issue for me.


RedNihilist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:09 am wrote:
rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:01 pm wrote:Because I totally was like 'oh man, with the SK gone, the scum could totally gambit, use their bulletproof to get town creds and ride that to the end'.


Yeah, except for the fact that you claimed right now that you're not even town, so explain me how that could have made your life more difficult.

rezombad, I want you to talk about this. Why did you choose the players you did in light of the fact that you're a survivor?

Also, when you claimed cop Day 3, you suggested that you were going to be nightkilled following that. Was that a big concern for you? Why claim at all at that point?

I want to win. If I die I lose.

I did Jamie n1 because he was bugging me and also vote analysis (I had a thing I made in paint, but never saved it, that had everyone's votes for day 1 in the order they were made, I've done this before).

Ham I explained.

Dusty because dusty.
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Post #588 by rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:40 pm

Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:03 am wrote:
rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:18 am wrote:I'm some kind of badass mafia guy who, instead of winning day3, immediately bussed my partner after his claim... When he botched the cop part specifically

Explain to me how you would have gone about winning Day 3 if you were scum. You tried and failed to get a wagon going on me. I post saying that I think the most likely scum team is rezombad and WitchHunt (which I still needed to confirm). Red votes for WitchHunt. WitchHunt votes for you, then goes all-in against you with a false claim.

Oh shit! This probably clears you as town based solely on WitchHunt's claim. He claimed to have a vig-shot attached to his JOAT role, which was a lie. If he lynched his scum buddy and failed to fire that night... he could have claimed to be roleblocked, I guess? Shit. This game is surprisingly hard. Especially since WitchHunt probably didn't expect to survive - he was probably planning for his lynch.

Anyway, my original point was that you, as WitchHunt's buddy, did not make the first move. He pushed against you after his own wagon started, which is pretty standard scum play, really. You pushed back equally hard which says nothing about your alignment since bussing in mylo is really super safe if you can pull it off.

So yeah, legit question there. If you were scum, what would you have done to seal the game Day 3?

Probably something involving getting someone mislynched.

I was so sold on you being scum d3, that I was considering lying about my target in order to lynch you.

But then witch claimed and I caught his fake cop nonsense
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Post #589 by RedNihilist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:47 pm

Because after his claim of having copped Stardust and his subsequent vote on me, it was clear that there was something fishy.
Had he claimed that Stardust was scum or myself town I would have waited in order to avoid falling in some trap, but in this case I *knew* that something was wrong, and the first thought that jumps to mind is that he's lying.

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Post #590 by hamfactorial » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm

I'm having trouble with that reasoning, Red.

From your POV, I see the following assumptions at the start of D4:

1. Ham is town (you've stated this several times)
2. You are town
3. Rez's results are invalid

To assume that rez's results are invalid, there must be something wrong with the statement "ham is town, Stardust is town".

Since you assume ham is town, your only point of contention that I can see is "Stardust is town".

If you don't believe that Stardust is town, why vote rez? Why not vote Stardust?

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Post #591 by Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:11 pm

rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:40 pm wrote:Probably something involving getting someone mislynched.

For example? I feel like you did exactly this with me already.

rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:40 pm wrote:I was so sold on you being scum d3, that I was considering lying about my target in order to lynch you.

Or considering lying to get me mislynched and seal the game?

So let's talk Godfathers again. hammy found that role on the wiki that perfectly explains everything that happened (apart from the opening flavour, maybe). I'm a Godfather who can't be killed and I lied about being a doctor. My kill is not unblockable, as shown by the fact that hammy's ability blocked it, so I must be lying about being a doctor because clearly the scum kill can be blocked. That was a major screw up on my part, messing up my claim like that, right? Surely you must be doubting your town read on me now?

But the fact is that you just shouldn't care. You're a survivor. It doesn't matter if you win with town. So why do you care so much? This ties in with my questions about your choice of cop targets. Why do you care? Why did you push against me so hard Day 3 when you must have known that I would stand a very good chance of killing you if I was the last scum? Since we were in mylo, why didn't you just sit back and relax? Did you even consider outing yourself as a Survivor at that point so you could align with the scum team for the win? Sure as hell would have given you a better chance of surviving the Night than claiming cop.

All in all, what you're saying right now doesn't sound like townrezombad and your Day 3 really didn't sound like a survivor at all.
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Post #592 by rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:52 pm

I was worried about getting nked n3 even if someone town got lynched.

I weighed the options available to me and figured I would be best off winning with town.

Also, town doesn't win very often here
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Post #593 by Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:02 pm

rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:52 pm wrote:I was worried about getting nked n3 even if someone town got lynched.

Why?

Also, I don't think you answered any of my questions. Most importantly, why did you claim?
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Post #594 by RedNihilist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:21 pm

hamfactorial » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm wrote:I'm having trouble with that reasoning, Red.

From your POV, I see the following assumptions at the start of D4:

1. Ham is town (you've stated this several times)
2. You are town
3. Rez's results are invalid

To assume that rez's results are invalid, there must be something wrong with the statement "ham is town, Stardust is town".

Since you assume ham is town, your only point of contention that I can see is "Stardust is town".

If you don't believe that Stardust is town, why vote rez? Why not vote Stardust?


I'm not saying "Rez's results are invalid".

I'm saying that, in order for those results to be valid, by process of elimination he's the remaining scum, and he's lying.

The questions on those results' validity came up later when Stardust asked him if he was 100% sure he hadn't just investigated a Godfather, and he replied that he was.

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Post #595 by Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:22 pm

rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:52 pm wrote:Also, town doesn't win very often here

What makes you say that? Town has won or tied the last five games on this site.
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Post #596 by Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:23 pm

Er, uh, no, four out of the last five.
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Post #597 by rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:24 pm

Stardust » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:02 pm wrote:
rezombad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:52 pm wrote:I was worried about getting nked n3 even if someone town got lynched.

Why?

Also, I don't think you answered any of my questions. Most importantly, why did you claim?

Because paranoia.

I'll go in to more detail on any qurstions i missed later on tonight. I only have time to do drive by question answering at work.
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Post #598 by hamfactorial » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:42 pm

Here's the ISO read of RedN, which I cut short to ask him about his rez vote.

-----

Finished up my read of RedNihilist.

His posting history strikes me as townie after D2 starts, and doesn't let up until the weird D4 stuff which I'll get into later.

Here he gets on Jamie for not actively contributing to the discussion. Recall the cloud that Jamie was under that day for his "explain the NK" scum tell.

RedNihilist » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:16 am wrote:Is a post like that really considered mean?
You've got to be kidding me.
I called you out on the fact that you didn't actually put *any* kind of pressure on anyone, you just attempted to lurk your way out on day 1 and, when people noticed you, you just pointed your finger at me and LMD trying to deflect attention.

I actually asked you to go on with your accusations in order to have you generate some more content, but you decided to avoid doing such a thing.
Now, I'm sorry that you're "angry" at my posts, but you can't SERIOUSLY expect to have people not notice the way you're just avoiding commitment and trying to dodge pressure.


Then after the Jamie wagon disbanded, he expressed his annoyance -

RedNihilist » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:04 am wrote:God, I guess I have to reread things over.
I'm not really happy of your choice of letting Jamie go without getting anything more from him than a simple handwave.


This looks like townie frustration to me.

Then on D3 we explore raspy's vig shot, after I push to have him claim it.

RedNihilist » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:40 am wrote:I've misread your case, that question is completely irrelevant.

I can give you a response on why I would have rather preferred if raspy had waited before claiming if you want, but I'd rather prefer to read what Stardust is going to reply about your case.


He then further explains why he didn't want the vig to claim right away -

RedNihilist » Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:32 am wrote:
rezombad » Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:23 pm wrote:
RedNihilist » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:40 am wrote:I've misread your case, that question is completely irrelevant.

I can give you a response on why I would have rather preferred if raspy had waited before claiming if you want, but I'd rather prefer to read what Stardust is going to reply about your case.

Why do you want to wait for stardust? He explained why he thought the vig shouldn't claim, you should too.


I wanted to have some content before the claim for two reasons:
- scum knows the alignment, of every player, having them try to force a case (we're in mid/late game now, they can't just try to lurk their way to the next day) that could be easily debunked by a semi-verifiable claim could be difficult to handle for them;
- we also had the choice of no lynching in order to try to break parity, but with doing so right now would be senseless as they'd probably just NK raspy now.


This feels townie to me, too. Denying the scum team the ability to fake claim by withholding information is a smart play, but not forever. By looking to wait a bit, he introduces some risk into the scum fake claim scenario.

The Red drops his magnum opus, the towniest town post that ever a town did post -

RedNihilist » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:42 am wrote:With nobody counterclaiming raspy I consider him confirmed town, as I don't expect this setup to be unbalanced to the point of having a neutral aligned sk AND a scumteam that can daykill.

That means that we've got two confirmed town out of 6 alive players, so there are two scum llayers between you, rezmo and Stardust.

Now, I don't really like Stardust's attitude in saying that sooner or later we're going to lynch him because *random rant*, but he's being consistent with other games so whatever.

Rezmo on the other side has taken a strong stance against him since day 1 and he's keeping it up a little too much to be just trying to distance/bus his scum partner, so I guess he's either onto something or he's scum trying to get rid of the most dangerous townfolk.

Either way I'm pretty sure that this is too big to just be some sort of clever, over the top ruse from the two of them as scum partners in order to clear at least one of the two, and since we're in MyLo I assure you I don't want to flip a coin to choose which one of the two I'm willing to hang.

I guess I'll just hang you, since the PoE points you out as scum.


Note that he had already voted for WitchHunt. He posted that, then WitchHunt made his JOAT claim.

In fact, Red was the first vote on WitchHunt's wagon.

Bussing is a useful tactic, but the scum team was not in any danger there. Why start a bus wagon? A scum role blocker / role cop strikes me as far more valuable than extra town cred for Red.

Then he gets on Stardust for his flippy-floppy reaction to my doc/cop typo. Perhaps Red didn't see it, because I certainly didn't either.

RedNihilist » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:14 am wrote:
Stardust » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:04 pm wrote:Oh damn, that's when you just say, "No, I don't think we'll get much info from that." I was hoping your role might be a piece to a puzzle when I asked that, but I now believe that WitchHunt is caught scum so I will not be claiming until tomorrow.


Can you explain me this, please?
I mean, I don't really care if you claim or not, just explain why you suddenly go from "let's claim!" to "no, this is suddenly complicated!"


Then we lynch WitchHunt, open D4 over raspy's dead body, and it gets really weird.

rezombad » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:16 pm wrote:vote rednihilist

I have town results on ham and dusty.

Game over.

RedNihilist » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:01 am wrote:Vote rezombad

Thanks for cutting this game short, at least I don't have to ISO you and Stardust.


Rezombad's post makes sense, but Red's makes no sense to me here.

If Red is a VT, why does he automatically jump to a rez vote?

From his POV:

1. He is town
2. He assumes ham is town
3. He thinks rez has faked the cop results

Rez's cop results are "ham = town, Stardust = town".

If he considered the possibility of a scum Godfather, he should suspect Stardust instead of rez. Remember that Red has stated ham = town all game, so rez's cop result on me should be no shocker. The only thing to take exception to is the "Stardust = town" result, which he must not believe. Otherwise he has no reason to find rez's results scummy, and I don't see why he doesn't vote Stardust.

If I can resolve the Red/rez debacle, I believe we'll find our last scum member and be done with this game.

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Post #599 by hamfactorial » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:49 pm

Further, before WitchHunt died he rambled on about a rez / Red scum team.

I'm curious now whether that was a way to hide his scum partner through WIFOM, or the possibility that neither were scum, and it's been Stardust all along. He did target two people who died, after all, and that's a possible play to argue against Tracker results, if the game had them.

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Post #600 by hamfactorial » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:20 am

imopen2 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:23 am wrote:That's a lynch!

Vote count #9:

Witchhunt(5): red, rez, ham, rcw, stardust
Rez(1): Witchhunt
Not Voting(0):
With 6 alive, it is 4 to lynch

Witchhunt has been gunned down by the citizens of Charming.

He was:
June Stahl - Role Blocker/Role Cop - Scum

It is now Night 3. Do not post. All night actions must be submitted by Saturday 2/28 at 11:59pm Central Standard Time. Day will begin sometime on Sunday or Monday.


I also notice that Stardust appeared to hammer, but he was the 5th vote on a wagon that only needed 4.

He went through a lot of effort to justify his vote, but it wasn't even necessary.


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