Fowl Play (Mafia)Let's Talk About Mafia!! (Mafia Theory)

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Post #41 by Mcdonalds » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:08 am

What is crypto-claiming and can someone find/give me an example for it?

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Post #42 by Pendulum » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:50 am

Lord_Mcdonalds » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:08 pm wrote:What is crypto-claiming and can someone find/give me an example for it?

I ~think~ it's the obscuring of your claim through any sort of code or hidden techniques; for example, if I were to say:

Don't think I'm scum
or I'll do mean things to your
cardiovascular sytem.
To think that I'm scum proves that I'm not
or that the person who thinks I'm scum is obviously scum themselves.
R.

Then anybody who knows to read the first letter of my lines would be able to tell I'm the doctor (although this is a pretty loose example, the real code can be as simple or complex as you want it to be, and can be used for anything, not just your claim, though the claim is most common). The advantage is that it passes on information to only a select
number of people (those who know or can decipher the code), thereby making it less likely to give useful information to people you don't want to know it; for example, if you suspect that all of the people who know or will be able to decipher the code are town, you can safely transfer the information to them without having to give scum the knowledge. I believe the general consensus is that most online Mafia games don't condone the use of this type of gaming, although it's really hard to police and, since nothing is "hidden" per se from the whole of the group (unless the key to the code is passed in secret), it is also not outright banned unless you're really, really obvious about it.
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Post #43 by Captain Murphy » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:15 am

There is a good example of a game on mtgs where iso figured out something only the town roles had that wasn't revealed to the scum team, and by asking players to answer the cryptic message he broke the game open 50 posts in.
Tom Servo » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:15 pm wrote:It's too bad we don't have a secret subforum where we can coordinate troll attempts where only we can see so that we don't have to catch on because only one of us is an actual rocket scientist.

Clownfish » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:51 pm wrote:I am particularly interested in committing internet genocide

Kaitscralt » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:37 pm wrote:in soviet gutter, New York somewhere in you

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Post #44 by Kazekirimaru » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:54 am

Yeah, what Pendy described is breadcrumbing, which is usually not frowned upon. Cryptoclaiming has more to do with breaking the game, which just makes Mods cranky.
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Post #45 by Manders » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:45 am

There's a good definition of it on MTGS...(god I hate their new design!)...just have to remember where it is...(it's just so fucking ugly!)...Oh yeah, duh, it's in the thread that says it contains Mafia info:

Crypto-Claim: Crypto-Claims/Acronym Claim - Crypto-claiming is a method of forcing players to put their role claims on record publicly in encrypted form, without revealing their content until a later time. The most common method of crypto-claiming is the acronym claim, in which players encrypt a message describing their role by posting the first letter of every word in the message, together with the number of words and the number of characters in the message. Later, the town can require each player to reveal the encoded message, and verify that the word and character limits match. Generally a banned game maneuver. Attributed to Azrael. Example: TYVM. 4 words, 16 letters. Decoded: Thank you very much.

That's crypto-
claiming.

I should probably talk to Iso about getting that glossary onto our site. It's got a lot of good information.

Edit: Wow, this incredibly cute genius already did that when she created the Mafia forum. Kudos to her! :mh:
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Post #46 by Pendulum » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:31 pm

Kazekirimaru » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:54 am wrote:Yeah, what Pendy described is breadcrumbing, which is usually not frowned upon. Cryptoclaiming has more to do with breaking the game, which just makes Mods cranky.

Wait wait wait. So the act of leaving clues in past posts, and using these clues at a future time to help other people follow a path of clues to reach a conclusion, is called "crypto-claiming"... and the act of putting encrypted information in a single post to give information to those who can decipher the cryptogram is called "breadcrumbing"?

- .... .- - .----. ... / ..-. ..- -.-. -.- .. -. --. / .-. . - .- .-. -.. . -..
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Post #47 by Kazekirimaru » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 pm

Something like that.

I think this is something best shown with examples.
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Post #48 by rezombad » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:10 pm

Someone should do it in a game so we have one
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Post #49 by Manders » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:04 pm

Pendulum » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:31 am wrote:
Kazekirimaru » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:54 am wrote:Yeah, what Pendy described is breadcrumbing, which is usually not frowned upon. Cryptoclaiming has more to do with breaking the game, which just makes Mods cranky.

Wait wait wait. So the act of leaving clues in past posts, and using these clues at a future time to help other people follow a path of clues to reach a conclusion, is called "crypto-claiming"... and the act of putting encrypted information in a single post to give information to those who can decipher the cryptogram is called "breadcrumbing"?

- .... .- - .----. ... / ..-. ..- -.-. -.- .. -. --. / .-. . - .
- .-. -.. . -..

No, no, no.

The specific type of "act of leaving clues in past posts, and using these clues at a future time to help other people follow a path of clues to reach a conclusion" that is shown in the definition I provided is called crypto-claiming. Literally telling people how many letters, how many words, and the first letter of each word. The vets on MTGS used to do that, I think before they even came there, and have since outlawed it because it is too game-breaking.

All other clues left are bread-crumbing and are acceptable.

Got it? :D
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Post #50 by Captain Murphy » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:15 pm

eg: Once I was a vig and said "kpaca is gonna be jealous" and days later claimed it and pointed out that post. There is a long running history of kpaca constantly getting the vig role and its a meme within itself. That's breadcrumbing.

crypto claiming would be me making a cryptic puzzle that only the town knows the answer to.
Tom Servo » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:15 pm wrote:It's too bad we don't have a secret subforum where we can coordinate troll attempts where only we can see so that we don't have to catch on because only one of us is an actual rocket scientist.

Clownfish » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:51 pm wrote:I am particularly interested in committing internet genocide

Kaitscralt » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:37 pm wrote:in soviet gutter, New York somewhere in you

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Post #51 by Dechs Kaison » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:18 pm

So, I want to get in on this Mafia action. I've breezed through most of the Welcome to Mafia thread and I feel like I'm ready to give it a whirl.

Looks like both running games are very early in their process. How long does a game typically run?

EDIT: Damn, seems I just missed the Postal mini-game sign up deadline.


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Post #52 by Kazekirimaru » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:44 pm

Smaller games usually take three weeks to a month-and-a-half depending on how much they stall out/how quickly scum is found. Longer games can take several months.
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Post #53 by Stardust » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:02 pm

I suspect that the next game to end will be mine, Gone Postal. Like Kaze said, probably about a month, give or take a couple weeks.

Good to get some new blood in here, though!
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Post #54 by Dechs Kaison » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:05 pm

Calling it now, I'll be dead before day 3 starts.


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Post #55 by hamfactorial » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:06 pm

I've already targeted you for a kill

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Post #56 by Dechs Kaison » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:09 pm

I'm not surprised. I'm the new guy. I'm either an impossible to read threat with no meta information to rely on, else I'm a liability likely to make a huge mistake that gets my entire team killed. Better to lynch me before I even start playing.


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Post #57 by hamfactorial » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:19 pm

If you're bad (like me) they'll probably let you live for a long time and lead you down rabbit holes :yes:

It will be fun having new players.

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Post #58 by Dechs Kaison » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:23 pm

I was going to ask if they could force me to be a vanilla townie for my first round so I don't have any powers or abilities to fuck up. But then I realized that a policy like that would break the whole uncertainty thing that Mafia is built around.

So, for a new guy, is it better to get involved in a large or a small game? A large game would obviously be more complex, but a small game means there's less other people to get killed before me.


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Post #59 by Kazekirimaru » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:34 pm

I like running semi-open 9-player games for newbie-specific setups, personally. Smaller games are better for the first time. Less stuff to get overwhelmed with.
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Post #60 by Stardust » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:37 pm

Small, for sure. Larger games can be tough even for veteran players since there's so much to keep track of. Better to play a small game and actually develop good reads. The more you can focus on certain players, and the less information you need to process, the better your reads are going to be.

(I say small, but we don't really run large games here. Even 16 isn't a huge number. You'll do fine with 12 or 13.)
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Post #61 by Dechs Kaison » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:43 pm

Yeah, 12 sounds perfectly reasonable. That's only two more than at a poker table.

How's about you modkill everyone in your game with a neighboring postal office anthrax strike and start a new one with me in it?


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Post #62 by Stardust » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:55 pm

The mass modkill anthrax strike isn't supposed to happen until Night 4... You're gonna have to wait. ;)
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Post #63 by Kazekirimaru » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:42 pm

Ongoing game talk? In my subforum??!?!?!?

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Post #64 by Stardust » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:47 pm

Well they didn't know I was being serious until you just flipped out! :x
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Post #65 by Wraith223 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:43 am

Stardust » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:55 pm wrote:The mass modkill anthrax strike isn't supposed to happen until Night 4... You're gonna have to wait. ;)


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Post #66 by rcwraspy » Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:28 am

Dechs Kaison » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:23 pm wrote:I was going to ask if they could force me to be a vanilla townie for my first round so I don't have any powers or abilities to fuck up.

Nah man. My first game I was scum buddied with Stardust and it was a blast. It was also great having a partner who could walk you through things in scum-chat without anybody else seeing.
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Post #67 by hamfactorial » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:28 am

I think it's more interesting to be scum as a newbie, because chatting with teammates makes it feel more inclusive. Playing as town is overwhelming because you can't trust anyone and your bullshit detector sucks.

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Post #68 by Kazekirimaru » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:22 am

I personally think playing as Scum is more fun in general, but yeah.
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Post #69 by Stardust » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:46 pm

I prefer playing as town. Hunting is more fun than fake-hunting. Winning as scum is more satisfying though.
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Post #70 by Stardust » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:41 pm

True or false: Millers are super powerful.

I'm playing as a Miller in another game right now. We're on Day 4 and we've got an active cop who's been getting doc'd to stay alive (presumably). Then he targeted me last night "just to make sure" I was town. Whoops, scum detected. Never seen a Miller as an info role before, have you?
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Post #71 by rezombad » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:43 pm

you probably shouldnt discuss ongoing games

""
millers exist to makes cops weaker.

if one cops a miller what happens? usually the miller gets lynched. then the scumteam knows who the cop is while getting a mislynch.

you shouldve claimed miller at the beginning of day1.
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Post #72 by Stardust » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:06 pm

I did claim Day 1. Then he copped me and said I was town. Then we lynched him. That was totally not clear from my previous post, sorry.

And it's okay to discuss ongoing games since you guys have no idea where I'm playing.
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Post #73 by RedNihilist » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:12 pm

You lynched him for being an idiot?

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Post #74 by Stardust » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:16 pm

We lynched him for being scum (I mean, he was an idiot, but that's not the point). Any town cop would have gotten a scum result. He claimed to have gotten a town result since he had obviously forgotten about my Miller claim.

I just thought it was funny. Now I've had to explain it too much. :(
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Post #75 by RedNihilist » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:14 pm

I had lost the "Then he copped me and said I was town".
I'm an idiot as well - lynch me again :(

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Post #76 by Stardust » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:30 pm

You have to start playing mafia again if you want me to do that. ;)
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Post #77 by RedNihilist » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:07 am

I will, I just need to focus on other things in the next month :D

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Post #78 by Mcdonalds » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:11 am

If I insult you enough, will you start playing again?

Trust me I can think of several ways to say that you have a small penis.

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Post #79 by RedNihilist » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:22 pm

Vote LMD!

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Post #80 by Dechs Kaison » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:06 pm

Relax, Red. I got this.

Vig shot LMD


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