Magic GeneralSharking

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Post #41 by Thrillho » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:06 pm

i'm just like you, i put my cards in a binder one card at a time. i'm just also not like you because i get texts from people like a drug dealer trying to give me money for magic cards.

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Post #42 by Thrillho » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:10 pm

and don't get me wrong, we've all been in the position to trade 3 rares for a peak-value foil primeval titan and just shaken the other guy's hand and walked away. what i'm saying, though, is that those types of trades should be your outlier rather than your goal every time you open up someone's binder. you want the person you're trading with to feel satisfied rather than violated. this is true in life in general as it is in exchanging magic cards for other magic cards or money.

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Post #43 by poggydude » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:01 pm

Pretty much exaclty what thrillho said.

I used to shark the shit out of people and make a ton, but it savaged our group and frankly people stop trading with you after a time.

One of my favorite tricks was to arrange a massive stack of cards we each wanted from each other and then pull three cards from my stack and one from hist and tell him to choose. I gave them the illusion of choice and taded so many dollar rares for ten dollar cards it wasnt even funny.

Hopefully anyone trying to avoid this can watch for that trick now, I imagine most of the sharks already know of this trick. All I have to say to you is please stay away from my playgroups :)

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Post #44 by Ascension » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:15 pm

It isn't sharking, you offer person a card for their card and they say ok. You did nothing wrong the agreed to it, they wanted to make the trade

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Post #45 by Thrillho » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:30 pm

Ascension » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:15 am wrote:It isn't sharking, you offer person a card for their card and they say ok. You did nothing wrong the agreed to it, they wanted to make the trade

When you take advantage of the fact that one party does not know card prices and leverage their lack of knowledge against your knowledge, which I assume is what you mean by "offer person a card for their card and they say ok" that is the literal definition of sharking.

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Post #46 by Thrillho » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:32 pm

Trying to put an amoral spin on intentionally taking advantage of another person in a trade doesn't make it less sharking, it just makes you look like an asshole for not owning up to what you're doing.

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Post #47 by Thrillho » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:34 pm

I'm not trying to justify being an asshole, I'm just making a point that we've all been in that position and more often than not there is at least one time where we let the greed get the better of us and conduct a slimy deal for profit and hope that we won't get caught being complete scumbags. But don't lie to yourself by lying to me saying you are not a scumbag in that situation.

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Post #48 by Alex » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:59 pm

Thrillho » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:30 am wrote:
Ascension » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:15 am wrote:It isn't sharking, you offer person a card for their card and they say ok. You did nothing wrong the agreed to it, they wanted to make the trade

When you take advantage of the fact that one party does not know card prices and leverage their lack of knowledge against your knowledge, which I assume is what you mean by "offer person a card for their card and they say ok" that is the literal definition of sharking.

Value is subjective though. There are a lot of different levels of players. Finding casuals that are simply interested in bulk rares shouldn't make you
feel bad, especially if you're giving them the better part of a new deck they're working on.

Example: There's a store near my house that is mostly board and tabletop games, not really big into CCGs. They have some people there who play Magic pretty casually. One day I showed up with my bulk box and found these two guys who were working on some bad tribal decks (sphinx and cats I think?) so the bulk box, to them at least, was a goldmine. I traded one guy like 12 bulk rare sphinx's for a foil Boros Reckoner, and the other guy I traded a set of Door of Destinies for a Dark Confidant. Was it a balanced trade? Clearly not. But those guys got what they wanted, and the value of not having to find these "cool" cards on their own outweighed monetary value. Everyone in all parties is going to actually play with those cards, so no bad feels. (Although I have yet to find the last Bob I need, so...not quite yet.)

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Post #49 by Yannaria » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:33 am

Alex » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:59 pm wrote:
Thrillho » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:30 am wrote:
Ascension » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:15 am wrote:It isn't sharking, you offer person a card for their card and they say ok. You did nothing wrong the agreed to it, they wanted to make the trade

When you take advantage of the fact that one party does not know card prices and leverage their lack of knowledge against your knowledge, which I assume is what you mean by "offer person a card for their card and they say ok" that is the literal definition of sharking.

nValue is subjective though. There are a lot of different levels of players. Finding casuals that are simply interested in bulk rares shouldn't make you feel bad, especially if you're giving them the better part of a new deck they're working on.

Example: There's a store near my house that is mostly board and tabletop games, not really big into CCGs. They have some people there who play Magic pretty casually. One day I showed up with my bulk box and found these two guys who were working on some bad tribal decks (sphinx and cats I think?) so the bulk box, to them at least, was a goldmine. I traded one guy like 12 bulk rare sphinx's for a foil Boros Reckoner, and the other guy I traded a set of Door of Destinies for a Dark Confidant. Was it a balanced trade? Clearly not. But those guys got what they wanted, and the value of not having to find these "cool" cards on their own outweighed monetary value. Everyone in all parties is going to actually play with those cards, so no bad feels.
(Although I have yet to find the last Bob I need, so...not quite yet.)

But that is sharking.
If you intentionally don't tell someone the value then you are sharking them.
If you tell them "hey, that Dark Confidant you have is worth 70 dollars" and they still only want four Doors, sure whatever. But if you pull that out, and they pull out the doors and they ask you if that's fin,e you are intentionally sharking and basically an asshole.
I generally make trades perfectly even, and like Thrillho, make out like a bandit when my shit goes up.
Hellrider is a great example, I bought two playsets, and traded for 2 more playsets and they went dumb.

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Post #50 by Alex » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:24 am

I don't tell them what the cards are worth, I just find something I want and go "I want this." I let them pick what they think is appropriate and if they're happy I'm happy. I don't feel bad about it, it isn't my job to tell you what your cards are worth, and worth is in the eye of the beholder anyway.

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Post #51 by Yannaria » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:39 am

Alex » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:24 pm wrote:I don't tell them what the cards are worth, I just find something I want and go "I want this." I let them pick what they think is appropriate and if they're happy I'm happy. I don't feel bad about it, it isn't my job to tell you what your cards are worth, and worth is in the eye of the beholder anyway.

so you're sharking them.
There is an objective value of worth for magic cards.
like I don't have a problem with trading a kid 20 bulk rares for a snapcaster mage, but I always let them know so a reputation doesn't get around that I'm a total scumbag when it comes to trades

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Post #52 by Thrillho » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:49 am

I just explained why what you're doing means you are an asshole. You're doing the magic card equivalent of trading the island of Manhattan for some turquoise beads.

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Post #53 by Alex » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:53 am

Yannaria » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:39 pm wrote:
Alex » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:24 pm wrote:I don't tell them what the cards are worth, I just find something I want and go "I want this." I let them pick what they think is appropriate and if they're happy I'm happy. I don't feel bad about it, it isn't my job to tell you what your cards are worth, and worth is in the eye of the beholder anyway.

so you're sharking them.
There is an objective value of worth for magic cards.
like I don't have a problem with trading a kid 20 bulk rares for a snapcaster mage, but I always let them know so a reputation doesn't get around that I'm a total scumbag when it comes to trades[/
quote]
I mean, it's not like I said "You can only take this much," they took as much as they wanted and were on their merry way. :shrug: I roll through that store about once a month and pick up a couple of cards here and there (they don't have a lot of value cards, but they're awesome if you're looking for cards that are out of print) and help them build decks and stuff. I also tend to leave bulk commons and uncommons with them for free.

They're board gamers, these cards don't have the same value to them as they do to someone like me. I'm pretty sure if they cared about the monetary value they'd use their phones, it isn't like I've ever stopped them or talk them out of doing so.

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Post #54 by Thrillho » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:53 am

You are literally being a parasite to their ignorance of current fiscal values purely for your own profit and advancement. You know the cards you're offering are priced adventageously to their own and you do nothing to balance that, not even saying "hey the cards you want are nowhere near what I have value wise do you want to take some more cards so the trade is more even?"

I'm not even saying you have to lay down a card by card value breakdown, but your example doesn't even show a token effort at not literally robbing these people. That's scum behavior, and by extension makes you a scumbag.

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Post #55 by Thrillho » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:55 am

"I leave commons and uncommons behind" wow gold star left behind your trash for others to pick through, I'm sure that offsets the $60 you made out in just one of those trades.

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Post #56 by Thrillho » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:57 am

Let me put this another way:
Someone buys a pack of gum with a $100 bill.
There's a big difference between them saying "keep the change" and you taking their money and not realizing someone would willfully take the other $99 without giving them change back.

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Post #57 by Alex » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:58 am

Thrillho » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:49 am wrote:I just explained why what you're doing means you are an asshole. You're doing the magic card equivalent of trading the island of Manhattan for some turquoise beads.

So what? The crux of your argument is that it creates bad feels, but I've been going to this store for the better part of a year and nobody has any issues. If they're not comfortable trading with me they don't have to, but thus far nobody has ever refused since these guys value the cards not just based on their monetary values.

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Post #58 by imopen2 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:34 pm

I think the issue of morality when it comes to something like trading pieces of colorful cardboard is quite interesting. I personally don't trade magic cards anymore because I was tired of spending my time and being offered shark trade after shark trade, and while I have had my fair share of crap rares for fetches stories, I also stopped trying to rip people when I was 15.

People have different concepts of what is moral. To Alex the idea is that if everyone gets what they want then the trade is moral. To kijin, this is underhanded when one side is clearly making away with a huge profit.

I remember I used to go to a store when I was between 13-16 that was primarily a sports card store but also sold magic cards and other collectables. They had no idea how to price magic cards and mainly used Scry magazine. Once they bought a huge collection from a dude with power and old duals etc and they took out the best cards,
throwing the "crap" in a pile for 10 cents a piece. My busy went through that huge pile and bought a foreign chains of Mephistopheles and 40 demonic tutors (some of them beta). Now that was a huge sharking...but it was of a store. They should know better, right? I always thought about that. They rip their customers off all the time, right?

Idk
Kijin Zabuza: My pokemon cards bring the boys to the yard
Kijin Zabuza: And they're like, "Oh **** he has cards"
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TwinBGenerationX: I wanna trade cards I could trade you, BUT NOT MY CHARIZARD!

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Post #59 by Stardust » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:17 pm

Stores don't rip customers off. They charge a fee for convenience. Don't hate stores just because they sometimes charge more than SCG or sell their FTV's above MSRP. They need to make a profit and you get the product you're looking for without spending an hour seaching online for a better price. Of course, you get the odd store selling mapped packs or whatever, but that's a different story.

As for ripping stores off by finding gems, they at least made their money back on that purchase. If the store didn't know the value of the 40 Demonic Tutors, the store obviously didn't pay the guy more for them - they would have paid for the stuff they actually put on sale (which hopefully would have sold for a profit). The person who really got ripped off was the guy selling his collection.
҉

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Post #60 by imopen2 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:22 pm

Stardust » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:17 pm wrote:The person who really got ripped off was the guy selling his collection.


So...stores DO rip people off?
Kijin Zabuza: My pokemon cards bring the boys to the yard
Kijin Zabuza: And they're like, "Oh **** he has cards"
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Post #61 by Col. Khaddafi » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:26 pm

Well technically it wasn't a rip-of since the store didn't knew about the real cards value. The question is whether it would have offered more for the collection if it did.
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Post #62 by Mogadishu Jones » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:10 pm

I once through 5 dci stps in the garbage.

Shark that bitches, fuck your cardboard.

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Post #63 by Checkbox » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:36 pm

"I once threw away $500. Suck it"
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Post #64 by Checkbox » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:37 pm

^^ not me trying to internet thug. Just don't understand why that is something to be proud of or how it relates to the discussion
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Post #65 by Mogadishu Jones » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:57 pm

Checkbox » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:37 pm wrote:^^ not me trying to internet thug. Just don't understand why that is something to be proud of or how it relates to the discussion

I also threw out some duals and a beta birds so suck on that too you hobagle.

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Post #66 by Yannaria » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:58 pm

THAT'S WHAT HE DOES!

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Post #67 by Thrillho » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:23 pm

Mogadishu Jones » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:10 pm wrote:I once through 5 dci stps in the garbage.

Shark that bitches, fuck your cardboard.

my friend left one in his backpack and then threw it out when it got all wrinkled. i sold one for $0.50 because i didn't play formats it was legal in and neither did anyone else because no one even know what legacy was then and they would buy any of your promo cards for $0.50.

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Post #68 by Captain Murphy » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:35 pm

When I played magic I was in my early teens and my local area had the one game store and no other store for 2 hours away, so if I ever pulled something good (or traded for good cards at big tournaments 3 hours away) everyone else who wanted it would "shark" each other to trade for it.

Big demand, low supply will make neckbeards fight each other for your cardboard with more cardboard.
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Kaitscralt » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:37 pm wrote:in soviet gutter, New York somewhere in you

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Post #69 by Alex » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:14 am

Mogadishu Jones » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:57 pm wrote:
Checkbox » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:37 pm wrote:^^ not me trying to internet thug. Just don't understand why that is something to be proud of or how it relates to the discussion

I also threw out some duals and a beta birds so suck on that too you hobagle.

This is some gangster shit.

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Post #70 by DarthStabber » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:12 am

I have a hard time forcing myself not to be the M:tG SEC. I will unabashedly use tcgplayer on my phone to ensure that the trade is on the up and up. Sometimes I will overoffer for something not valuable, but difficult to find, and if someone wants to overoffer me I won't be able to sleep at night unless they do it with informed consent, and even then I will give them a couple foil commons or uncommons. I have no issue pulling any sort of mind games during play, but I for some reason don't like the idea of people getting screwed over in trades.
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redthirst » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:18 pm wrote:You do need to try to gay it up a little more.

You're like the least gay member of this clan.

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Post #71 by fadedblue » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:50 pm

Thrillho » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:49 am wrote:I just explained why what you're doing means you are an asshole. You're doing the magic card equivalent of trading the island of Manhattan for some turquoise beads.


ding ding!
Sharks and people with no morals will always find a way to justify to themselves why taking advantage of another person is okay. Either that or they have psychopathy. But whatever the reason, you can only just be a good example and protect yourself from getting taking advantage of by one of these types of players.
"He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged."

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Post #72 by DarthStabber » Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:23 pm

fadedblue » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:50 am wrote:But whatever the reason, you can only just be a good example and protect yourself from getting taking advantage of by one of these types of players.


I completely agree with your whole post but the quoted section is most important. As annoying a phone checking is, it's the best way to avoid getting screwed.

With all that being said, it should be noted that being the shop's securities and exchange commision is going to infuriate the rest of the players, and no one likes a narc (or maybe that's just st. Louis, aka just shy of detroit). The key is to CYA, and maybe keep an eye out for newbs if the angel on your shoulder gets too loud and obnoxious.
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redthirst » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:18 pm wrote:You do need to try to gay it up a little more.

You're like the least gay member of this clan.

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