Mountain (Standard)Mono Black Aggro

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Mono Black Aggro

Post #1 by Self Medicated » Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:38 pm

I wanted to start a discussion on what MBA could look like after rotation. Initially, this was my starting point in terms of a deck:

[deck]
Lands (20)
20x Swamp

Creatures (29)
4x Bloodsoaked Champion
4x Gnarled Scarhide
3x Grim Haruspex
2x Herald of Torment
4x Mardu Skullhunter
4x Pain Seer
4x Spiteful Returned
4x Tormented Hero

Spells (11)
4x Despise
3x Hero's Downfall
4x Thoughtseize
[/deck]
No sideboard yet.

Then I read Owen T's article this morning, which prompted me to think more along these lines:

[deck]Lands (20)
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta
12x Swamp

Creatures (27)
4x Bloodsoaked Champion
4x Gnarled Scarhide
3x Grim Haruspex
4x Herald of Torment
4x Mardu Skullhunter
4x Pain Seer
4x Tormented Hero

Spells (13)
3x Hero's Downfall
4x Murderous Cut
2x Sign in Blood
4x Thoughtseize
[/deck]

The thought here being that the fetchlands will help
with Murderous Cut.

I'm still not really sure which direction I should be going. I also wonder if I'm making a mistake by using Grim Haruspex instead of [card]Mogis's Marauder[/card]? Or if they are both the wrong call? Does Haruspex not do enough because I don't have a sac outlet? Would Agent of the Fates be a better choice?
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Post #2 by Platypus » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:37 pm

I think Mogis's Marauder is the wrong call at least. Or at least in the maindeck. Three of the wedges have black creatures, so they will be able to block the creatures you give Intimidate. The other options are better in my opinion.
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Post #3 by LP, of the Fires » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:36 pm

Jsilv's MBA:

[deck]4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Tormented Hero
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Mardu Skullhunter
3 Spiteful Returned
4 Herald of Torment
2 Mogis's Marauder

4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
4 Sign in Blood
2 Murderous Cut

8 fetches
12 swamp
1 urborg[/deck]

My MBA:

[deck]4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Gnarled Scarhide
3 Tormented Hero
4 Pain Seer
4 Mardu Skullhunter
2 Spiteful Returned
4 Herald of Torment
3 Mogis's Marauder

4 Hero's Downfall
2 Bile Blight
2 Sign in Blood

4 Thoughtseize

20 Lands[/deck]

My list is untested as is. The original version was -2 sign in blood, +2 land and was also made before cut and Grim Harspux where revealed.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Post #4 by Self Medicated » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:10 pm

With all of this in mind, I think I'm leaning towards Agent. I just realized that Haruspex cannot replace himself, and Platypus has a point about Marauder. I'll still try him out, but Agent might just be the better way to go.

Also, am I being too greedy with my mana?
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Post #5 by Self Medicated » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:38 am

Platypus » Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:37 am wrote:I think Mogis's Marauder is the wrong call at least. Or at least in the maindeck. Three of the wedges have black creatures, so they will be able to block the creatures you give Intimidate. The other options are better in my opinion.


Now I'm second guessing this. We'll be losing approximately 25 playable black creatures, and gaining maybe half that number. So Marauder might be the right pick after all. At least until the second set in Khans is released.
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Post #6 by magicdownunder » Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:29 am

Lp or anyone, did you guys test MonoBlack yet? If so how did the deck fair against midrange and R Aggro?
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Post #7 by Tyrael » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:51 pm

magicdownunder » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:29 pm wrote:Lp or anyone, did you guys test MonoBlack yet? If so how did the deck fair against midrange and R Aggro?


I have been testing a few brews at my LGS and the red aggro matchup is still extremely poor. They are faster and have more reach, not to mention that this deck actually does a significant amount of damage to itself.

Master of The Feast seems like an excellent sideboard option against them though.
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Post #8 by magicdownunder » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:47 am

I think this deck can handle 1-2 murderous cut at most (even with fetch lands) my current favorite brew will be Jeff Hoogland approach:

[deck=Mono-Black Aggro by Jeff Hoogland]CREATURES (26)
4 Tormented Hero
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Spiteful Returned
4 Mardu Skullhunter
4 Herald of Torment
2 Mogis's Marauder

PLANESWALKERS (0)
None

SPELLS (13)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Bile Blight
1 Boon of Erebos
2 Hall of Triumph

LANDS (21)
2 Temple of Malice
19 Swamp

SIDEBOARD (15)[/deck]

In regards with SB - I'm liking additional: 2x Mogis's Marauder for non-black heavy decks, 4x Despise for durdle decks, 4x Pharika's Cure for aggro decks, 2x Erebos, God of the Dead for lifegain deck and additional 2x Bile Blight with maybe 1x Murderous Cut in the SB (I think 5cc is allot to ask for).

I also really like Jsilv's MBA list - its has MD CA and it runs (imo) the perfect
number of Murderous Cut followed with 1x Urborg for those games where you don't want to fetch :yes: my only complaint is that it doesn't have those nuts T1 1x Creature, T2 2x Creature and T3 Hall plays though I'll imagine that would be quite rare so Jsilv list is most likely better.
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Post #9 by Self Medicated » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:51 pm

You know, I've been thinking about Hall of Triumph in MBA to protect against stuff like Drown in Sorrow. Nice to see someone else is thinking the same thing.
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Post #10 by NotARobot » Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:21 pm

Do you guys like Master of the Feast in MBA? Is the 5/5 flier on turn 3 worth the significant card disadvantage?

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Post #11 by Aodh » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:01 pm

Maverick » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:49 pm wrote:Hall of Triumph won't protect your 2/1s from Drown in Sorrow. I still like it, just not for that reason.

Has anyone thought about running Radiant Fountain to help offset life loss and win some races?


It's certainly better than basic swamp in some cases. Very nice idea, esp. with Rabble Red everywhere.

19 swamp 1 nykthos 1 urborg X radiant fountain is probably awesome lol.

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Post #12 by magicdownunder » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:04 am

NotARobot » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:21 am wrote:Do you guys like Master of the Feast in MBA? Is the 5/5 flier on turn 3 worth the significant card disadvantage?


The guys in Sally love it but it seems really counter productive if your on the 4x Thoughtseize and 4 Mardu Skullhunter plan...
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Post #13 by Alex » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:34 am

magicdownunder » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:04 am wrote:
NotARobot » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:21 am wrote:Do you guys like Master of the Feast in MBA? Is the 5/5 flier on turn 3 worth the significant card disadvantage?


The guys in Sally love it seems really counter productive if your on the 4x Thoughtseize and 4 Mardu Skullhunter plan...

There is really no good reason to play it, there are much better wedge creatures anyway.

Leave it to Salvation to take the worst possible leap in logic.

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Post #14 by Toddington » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:32 am

I had Desecration Demon in the sideboard for Monster decks earlier this year, and it was the blade. Definitely to be considered, it's the biggest flier in the format?

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Post #15 by TptBahamut » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:04 am

Except Desecration Demon is no longer legal once KTK comes out.

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Post #16 by Toddington » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:33 am

Exactly, and Master of the Feast is a similarly large undercosted creature.

My post is ambigous, I was talking about Master in the second sentence.

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Post #17 by magicdownunder » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:07 pm

Toddington » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:33 pm wrote:Exactly, and Master of the Feast is a similarly large undercosted creature.

My post is ambigous, I was talking about Master in the second sentence.


Hmmmm... players like val seems too believe this will be a removal lite format - Master could be decent if that is true however not so much with the discard package.

Perhaps in a Br deck with burn as reach like:

[deck=Black-Red Aggro by Jeff Hoogland (edited for master via cutting discard)]CREATURES (28)
4 Tormented Hero
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Spiteful Returned
4 Herald of Torment
4 Master of the Feast

PLANESWALKERS (0)
None

SPELLS (10)
3 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
3 Stoke the Flames

LANDS (22)
4 Temple of Malice
4
Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain
2 Mana Confluence
10 Swamp[/deck]

This is another Jeff list which seems decent except for the part where it tries too run RR and BB in the same deck :sweat:

I'll imagine Stoke the Flames will generally be near impossible to cast without damaging your early game (unless we're going too assume that this is a removal lite format so Rabble Master will be enough too generate the Red).
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Post #18 by Toddington » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:40 pm

That's interesting. I agree on the double red, Rabblemaster seems like an unreliable red source. Herald bestowing Rabblemaster seems like the dream though! Where does Hoogland post his brews, tappedout?

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Post #19 by Alex » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:03 pm

Toddington » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:33 am wrote:Exactly, and Master of the Feast is a similarly large undercosted creature.

My post is ambigous, I was talking about Master in the second sentence.

Except significantly worse since there is basically no downside for your opponent. Desecration Demon was huge AND had upside.

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Post #20 by Toddington » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:35 pm

No downside, except your 3 drop hitting for 5 in the air each turn.

What was the upside of Desecration Demon exactly?

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Post #21 by Alex » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:38 pm

I'm not sure if you're trolling me right now or not.

What downside is there to "You either sac a creature or get hit by a 6/6?" Especially when the deck that played it already specialized in causing them to have no creatures to sac? The only time it was bad was when you're already losing, and in that scenario Master of the Feast is even WORSE because the last thing you want your chump blocker to do while you're losing is feed your opponent cards.

Master of the Feast is unplayable garbage.

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Post #22 by Toddington » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:49 pm

Against tokens (specifically Xenagos) or small creatures, sometimes Desecration Demon never got to untap, and opponents went straight around it. Giving your opponents a choice whether your creature can do creature things is not upside.

Master attacks for 5 each turn, it's as simple as that. I'm not saying Master is the best creature ever, but against some decks it's an unblockable, fast clock. You can't exactly ignore it forever.

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Post #23 by Alex » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:51 pm

Toddington » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:49 am wrote:Against tokens (specifically Xenagos) or small creatures, sometimes Desecration Demon never got to untap, and opponents went straight around it. Giving your opponents a choice whether your creature can do creature things is not upside.

Master attacks for 5 each turn, it's as simple as that. I'm not saying Master is the best creature ever, but against some decks it's an unblockable, fast clock. You can't exactly ignore it forever.

There are so many flying creatures right now it's unreal. Lets stop comparing cards to other cards and keywords to other keywords because we are clearly not making good comparisons.

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Post #24 by Alex » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:52 pm

Hell there are even playable creatures with Reach at the moment.

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Post #25 by Alex » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:56 pm

Maverick » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:52 pm wrote:Master of the Feast was a SB card last season against GR Monsters because they couldn't get rid of it. It didn't matter that they drew extra cards because none of them would be removal to stop him, and he's so fast that even with the extra card they couldn't win the race.

If a popular deck exists that has no removal (like Reid Duke's GR devotion deck), then that is where you would use it.

Those decks can play Arbor Colossus out of the board, and they should be playing it in the board for the mirror anyway. It blocks Stormbreath Dragon forever.

Also, Monsters could kill it. Setessan Tactics was in EVERY sideboard.
The had trouble killing Desecration Demon because it was 6 toughness, but Master being 5 means it dies to pretty much every Tactics. DD had to be killed by exactly Poly. Why are you guys trying to make a case for this bad card? :shrug:

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Post #26 by amcfvieira » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:36 pm

amcfvieira » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:58 pm wrote:It's now time for the new season. The rotation next Friday will leave (in my opinion) this deck well positioned in the beginning of the season, when the agroo decks always shine.

Thinking in creatures:

1 drop:
Gnarled Scarhide
Tormented Hero
Bloodsoaked Champion

2 drop:
Pain Seer
Spiteful Returned
Mardu Skullhunter
Brain Maggot

3 drop:
Herald of Torment
[card]Mogis's Marauder[/card]
Master of the Feast
Agent of the Fates
[card:
3qvoqyz4]Nighthowler[/card]
Grim Haruspex

4 drop:
Erebos, God of the Dead
Agent of Erebos
Fate Unraveler

5 drop:
Gray Merchant of Asphodel

Removal:
[card]Hero's Downfall[/card]
Bile Blight
Ulcerate
Murderous Cut
Dark Betrayal
[card]Pharika's Cure[/card]
Gild
Silence the Believers

Disruption:
Thoughtseize
Despise

Draw:
Sign in Blood
Read the Bones

Others:
Whip of Erebos
Boon of Erebos
Hall of Triumph

I think I
was missing some cards, but I think that will be a good core to begin. The deck have to beat green based strategies, like mono green and multicolour with the base Elvish Mystic+sylvan caryatid+Courser of Kruphix, have to beat UB control, and graveyard strategies (possible BG or BUG). Other new strategies and Monored/agroo decks.

We can splash a second colour, like white or red, but it will really give us benefits?

My first thoughts go to something like (10~12) x (1 drop) + 8 x (2 drop) + (6~8) x (3 drop) + (21~23 lands) + (9~15 Other Spells)

What do you think about this? All criticism will be appreciated.


This is a quote from my post in Monoblack Agroo (with the cards and Grim Haruspe in the list), because I didn't see this before.
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Post #27 by amcfvieira » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:06 pm

magicdownunder » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:07 pm wrote:
Toddington » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:33 pm wrote:Exactly, and Master of the Feast is a similarly large undercosted creature.

My post is ambigous, I was talking about Master in the second sentence.


Hmmmm... players like val seems too believe this will be a removal lite format - Master could be decent if that is true however not so much with the discard package.

Perhaps in a Br deck with burn as reach like:

[deck=Black-Red Aggro by Jeff Hoogland (edited for master via cutting discard)]CREATURES (28)
4 Tormented Hero
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Spiteful Returned
4
Herald of Torment
4 Master of the Feast

PLANESWALKERS (0)
None

SPELLS (10)
3 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
3 Stoke the Flames

LANDS (22)
4 Temple of Malice
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain
2 Mana Confluence
10 Swamp[/deck]

This is another Jeff list which seems decent except for the part where it tries too run RR and BB in the same deck :sweat:

I'll imagine Stoke the Flames will generally be near impossible to cast without damaging your early game (unless we're going too assume that this is a removal lite format so Rabble Master will be enough too generate the Red).


This deck seen sweet for start. Anyone was already testing it? I think my Bloodsoaked Champion will not arrived at time for week one tournaments :x
Master of the Feast is huge. Have a big downside, but in block I beat almost
the times green decks and other agroo deck with him. Pay 3 life for ulcerate or Bile Blight the Arbour Colossus will keep Master alive and will be a trade of 2 cards for one.

A playset of Mogis's Marauder will let you rush the Sylvan Caryatid and Courser all time.
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Post #28 by amcfvieira » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:50 am

Deck post by Brian DeMars in SCG. I like this deck, it's have the number close of what I'm thinking, but I don't know if 4 Sign in Blood + Pain Seer + Ulcerate + Herald of Torment will not be to much. Thinking for me in Bile Blight and 3 Sign in Blood (máx).

[deck]Creatures (26)
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Mogis's Marauder
4 Pain Seer
4 Tormented Hero
4 Gnarled Scarhide
3 Herald of Torment
3 Spiteful Returned

Lands (22)
22 Swamp

Spells (12)
2 Boon of Erebos
2 Ulcerate
4 Sign in Blood
4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Crippling Blight
4 Brain Maggot
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Whip of Erebos
1 Erebos, God of the Dead[/deck]
Legacy: IZZET DELVER ; BURN
Modern: TEMPO TWINS ; UR STORM ; BURN
Standard: Work in Progress

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Post #29 by LP, of the Fires » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:38 pm

Think about for a bit and you can probably figure it out would be the long answer.

The short answer is that it punches your guys through courser/carayatid while doubling up as a counterspell for removal.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Post #30 by Aodh » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:07 pm

What about a hand disruption/card advantage MBA deck. I.e., 12 1-dudes, 4 Pain Seer, 4 Brain Maggot, 4 raid discard guy, 4 Mogis's Marauders, 4 Thoughtseize, 4 Downfall, 2-4 Despise, 2-0 Bile Blight/Boon of Erebos/etc.

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Post #31 by amcfvieira » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:43 pm

I don't like much Brain Maggot. I play it a lot and always feel that it's so fragile and in last analyse it's one for one, because they will receive the card back. Spent all second turn making it happen it's a tempo loss...
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Post #32 by Aodh » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:57 pm

amcfvieira » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:43 pm wrote:I don't like much Brain Maggot. I play it a lot and always feel that it's so fragile and in last analyse it's one for one, because they will receive the card back. Spent all second turn making it happen it's a tempo loss...

I agree that he's fragile and hasn't really had a place in MBA, but with 14-16 aggressive discard effects available now it might warrant inclusion.

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Post #33 by amcfvieira » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:33 am

Monoblack Beatdown by Tomoharu Saito:

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I really don't like the final configuration, seems all 4-off, and not a more test list...
Legacy: IZZET DELVER ; BURN
Modern: TEMPO TWINS ; UR STORM ; BURN
Standard: Work in Progress

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amcfvieira
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Post #34 by amcfvieira » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:58 pm

My first try this weekeknd:

[deck]Creatures (26)
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Tormented Hero
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Pain Seer / 4 Mardu Skullhunter
4 Spiteful Returned
3 Mogis's Marauder
3 Herald of Torment


Lands (22)
22 Swamp

Spells (12)
2 Boon of Erebos
2 Ulcerate
2 Sign in Blood
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hero's Downfall

Sideboard
1 Thoughtseize
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Despise
2 Pharika's Cure
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Master of the Feast
2 Bile Blight
[/deck]
Legacy: IZZET DELVER ; BURN
Modern: TEMPO TWINS ; UR STORM ; BURN
Standard: Work in Progress

Bananasack
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Post #35 by Bananasack » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:23 am

[deck]
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Tormented Hero
4 Spiteful Returned
4 Pain Seer
4 Herald of Torment
4 Mogis's Marauder

4 Thoughtseize
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Bile Blight

22 Swamp

Sideboard
4 Despise
4 Master of the Feast
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Pharika's Cure
2 Boon of Erebos
1 Bile Blight
[/deck]

This is the list I've been playing with recently. I went 3-2 at FNM losing to Mono Green Devotion that brick walled me with Coursers/Caryatids and Junk/Abzan aggro that outraced me. I kind of want to put Hall of Triumph in here but I can't find the room for it. I think it is fine without it personally

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Post #36 by amcfvieira » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:37 pm

After my weekend the list is now:

[deck]Creatures (26)
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Tormented Hero
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Pain Seer
4 Spiteful Returned
3 Mogis's Marauder
3 Herald of Torment

Lands (22)
22 Swamp

Spells (12)
1 Hall of Triumph
2 Bille Blight
2 Sign in Blood
4 Thoughtseize
3 Hero's Downfall

Sideboard
4 Mardu Skullhunter
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Despise
2 Pharika's Cure
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Master of the Feast
2 Bile Blight
[/deck]

Thinking in put a Erebos mainboard if Jeskai will reach a high number of decks. Real thought to deal with this deck.
Legacy: IZZET DELVER ; BURN
Modern: TEMPO TWINS ; UR STORM ; BURN
Standard: Work in Progress

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Post #37 by Bananasack » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:28 am

I was thinking about Erebos as well. Not sure if I would play him mainboard though.

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Post #38 by Pedros » Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:04 am

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=73610

Rakdos agro:

[deck]
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Mogis's Marauder
4 Tormented Hero
4 War-Name Aspirant
4 Gnarled Scarhide
3 Herald of Torment
4 Spiteful Returned
3 Tymaret, the Murder King

4 Mountain
6 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

3 Hero's Downfall
1 Murderous Cut
4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard
2 Grim Haruspex
1 Mogis's Marauder
2 Bile Blight
1 Empty the Pits
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Murderous Cut
1 Ulcerate
1 Whip of Erebos
2 Barrage of Boulders
3 Despise[/deck]
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Post #39 by Pedros » Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:17 am

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=73829

BR Warriors:

[deck]
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Borderland Marauder
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Tormented Hero
4 War-Name Aspirant
3 Tymaret, the Murder King

4 Mountain
4 Swamp
1 Bloodfell Caves
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mana Confluence
4 Temple of Malice

3 Obelisk of Urd
3 Raiders' Spoils
2 Boon of Erebos
4 Stoke the Flames

3 Dark Betrayal
3 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Spray
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Stain the Mind
4 Thoughtseize[/deck]

Decent curve, good synergy with Obelisk and Raiders' Spoils. No sure I like lack of removals (even when Boon of Erebos acts as one) or the fact that IMO you can easily splash white for Chief of the Edge and Mardu Charm, however it might no be needed and deck is good like that.
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