Dies to Removal

So, let's split out the discussion of a RW burn deck from the Jeskai Burn thread. It's unclear which is better Jeskai Burn or Boros Burn but until that is known, it's better to keep the discussion separate.

So some decklists.

Zemanjaski's list from his latest article in CFB:

[deck]
Lands
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
11 Mountain
2 Plains

Creatures
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way

Noncreature Spells
3 Arc Lightning
4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Deflecting Palm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames

Sideboard
1 Arc Lightning
2 Banishing Light
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Erase
4 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Ride Down
4 Satyr Firedancer
[/deck]

Deck with lots of top8's posted in the Jeskai thread:

[deck]
Creatures 12
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Seeker of the Way

Other Spells 26
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Arc Lightning
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames

Lands 22
4 Battlefield Forge
11 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag

Sideboard 15
4 Hushwing Gryff
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Banishing Light
2 Circle of Flame
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Erase
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
[/deck]

Jasper's deck from the Boros Deck Wins thread:

[deck]
Creatures 16
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster

Spells 22
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Deflecting Palm
3 Chained to the Rocks

Lands 22
11 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
2 Plains

Sideboard 13
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Wind-Scarred Crag
3 Banishing Light
2 Circle of Flame
1 Chained to the Rocks
[/deck]

So those should get the discussion going...

Decks running Wind-Scarred Crag should be running Evolving Wilds instead to maximize targets for Chained to the Rocks.

Good point about Evolving Wilds Val

This deck won New Jersey states:

[deck]Michael Long, 2014 Standard State Championships - New Jersey, 1st Place[/deck]

I ran zem's list last FNM and it's weak to Rhino decks even post board. I think Hushwing Gryffs are a requirement in the current meta.

just wanna chime in and say that any fringe control deck with white colored lands is pretty much required to run one or two Resolute Archangel in their 75 to have any chance against post-board jeskai burn lists. Ram just doesn't get the job done.
(Hushwing gryph is pretty good)

just wanna chime in and say that any fringe control deck with white colored lands is pretty much required to run one or two Resolute Archangel in their 75 to have any chance against post-board jeskai burn lists. Ram just doesn't get the job done.
(Hushwing gryph is pretty good)

Except this list gives Jeskai the dick, even on the draw.


The matchup that most concerns me is MGD and Abzan, which is why we are leaning on 4 Hush so hard. Maindeck Satyr Firedancer is also a pretty strong meta call, and one that I feel is correct right now. Goblin Rabblemaster is an amazing clock, but he's weak vs Jeskai, and one could even argue that he's weak against Green decks, since he normally just trades with a Courser or whatever else they are playing. I feel okay with Rabbles on the play, but often times, on the draw, I wish I didn't have him at all.

Resolute Archangel is nice but at 7 mana when we only run 4 painlands and we have mb seeker it probably doesn't belong in a deck like this. Kind of on the fence for rabble mb, it's definitely a clock but as you said its prone to getting walled and feels like he'd be more at home in a deck with anthem effects for his tokens. Firedancer is very much a meta call, if you're seeing alot of aggro decks hes better mainboard, though probably best in the side.

Resolute Archangel is nice but at 7 mana when we only run 4 painlands and we have mb seeker it probably doesn't belong in a deck like this.

I could be wrong but I don't think Resolute Archangel was a suggestion for this deck, but a card we might see in other white-based control deck like UW and Esper.

Decks running Wind-Scarred Crag should be running Evolving Wilds instead to maximize targets for Chained to the Rocks.

Evolving Wild is rather bad for all the Scry'ing which occurs...

[deck]
Creature 12
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster

Planeswalker 4
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Spells 21
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Arc Lightning
4 Searing Blood
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames

Land 23
3 Mana Confluence
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph
12 Mountain
[/deck]

I'm really not feeling the Goblin Rabblemaster in this list, I've also moved the CTTR count into 4x since its never dead (the only exception being the UR counterburn MU which we can't win anyways).

Not really feeling the Sarkhans either, at least not for game one.

4 CttR sounds decent. It's cool, being able to Chain a guy on turn 3, and trigger prowess on one of your little guys, while also having 2 mana up to burn a creature out on their turn.

Edit: Never thought I'd actually miss Shock

I agree about Sarkhan.. if only he was 1cc less T_T

You guys are high. Sarkhan is great

Sakhan is great but he make your scry decisions rather rough in low curve decks like this.

The deck needs some kind of powerful endgame

Decks running Wind-Scarred Crag should be running Evolving Wilds instead to maximize targets for Chained to the Rocks.

Evolving Wild is rather bad for all the Scry'ing which occurs...

It's not the most synergistic, but running one to increase your Mountain count will win you more games than resetting your deck loses them.

We run Serum Visions with 9 fetches in UR Delver for a reason.

Modern matches end much faster then standard ones so I value the scry much more in this format (your also trying to cast TC in Delver), though I do agree 12 mountains are required for 4x CTTR.

Don't think of scry as sending bad cards to the bottom. Think of it as digging for good cards at the top. Mathematically speaking if you scry a couple of cards to the bottom then shuffle your deck you're only increasing your chances of seeing like cards by a small percentage. I'm willing to bet those percentages over 200 games would be less than the games you actually win due to having that extra Mountain.

The deck needs some kind of powerful endgame

Does the deck need a powerful endgame if it kills its opponent first?

Brain, I'll answer your dumb troll question with a dumb troll question:

Do you honestly expect to win every game by being faster than your opponent?

It had much higher impact Burn spells, Mutavaults, Phoenix, and YP$. We don't have those now

Man, Chained to the Rocks is fuckin awesome now with little enchantment removal and most other removal costing around 3-4.

Also, Searing Blood is awesome with all these dorks running around.

Seeker is the Way is an amazing two drop. Certainly on par with YP$

Seeker is strong, no doubt, but I would never presume to call that card as good as YP$. Not in a million years

Seeker is strong, no doubt, but I would never presume to call that card as good as YP$. Not in a million years

Its not even close to as good in a vacuum. YP$ sees play in older formats where seeker never will.

However, it does have a lot going for it in a meta dominated by big green creatures, courser and caryatid.

Seeker is better vs Courser/Caryatid. Right now, in the current standard format, that is the most important thing.

It also is a bit better in a race, though YP$ is also very good there. Many of my recent matchups have felt racy.

Also Seeker gives the deck a true 2-drop where YP$ was usually cast on turn 3 or 4.

You guys are high. Sarkhan is great

I personally don't see what's so great about him. Almost every time I've cast him, in any of my decks, it just felt kind of shitty. At the same time, he costs like a bazillion dollars, so much so that I've been considering just selling both of mine.

+1 - Stormbreath Dragon, except can still be hit by white spells. Still dies to Downfall. 6 loyalty after going up is nice, but sometimes I'd rather just have a Dragon that doesn't have loyalty.

-3 - Flame slash, for 5 mana. Generally speaking, I probably would have rather just used a Stoke on the guy, rather than pay a full 5 to kill a thing, then have my planeswalker die to a Mystic. If this dealt 5 damage or could be directed to the face I'd probably like the guy a whole lot more.


A lot of decks are going wide, and by wide, I mean tokens. Paying 5 mana to kill 1 of their 6 1/1 Goblins is a pretty shitty deal. At the same time, a lot of decks are playing creatures with 5 Toughness, and Sarkhan doesn't do anything to them either. Killing a Courser? I'm pretty sure that most green players are okay with you using a turn 5+ play, and tapping out, to remove something they played on turn 2 or 3.

It had much higher impact Burn spells, Mutavaults, Phoenix, and YP$. We don't have those now

Doesn't really seem like a dumb question, then. Feels more like missing a subtle difference between a deck called "Boris Burn" and a deck called "Boros Burn 2.0"

It's a dumb question when you expect this deck to win without going to a mid game or long game

Seeker also doesn't have a ton of dumb nicknames.

Seeker of the bae

Creature - Human Swaglord

"Fuck her right in the pussy"

Seeker is strong, no doubt, but I would never presume to call that card as good as YP$. Not in a million years

Its not even close to as good in a vacuum. YP$ sees play in older formats where seeker never will.

However, it does have a lot going for it in a meta dominated by big green creatures, courser and caryatid.

Seeker is better vs Courser/Caryatid. Right now, in the current standard format, that is the most important thing.

It also is a bit better in a race, though YP$ is also very good there. Many of my recent matchups have felt racy.

Also Seeker gives the deck a true 2-drop where YP$ was usually cast on turn 3 or 4.

Pyromancer isn't Standard legal

I played some games today vs the G/b Doomwake deck and after about 10 games, I tried the Phoenix in Sarkhan's place. I actually may like the bird better

Quite Being nitpicky. This is literally arguing for the sake of arguing. That a d seeker of the way is more like mutavault. You just get free points of damage everywhere.

On topic, chain the rocks makes rabblemaster Much better.

Sarkhan is awesome be ause its a split card between mortars and dragon and the format is overall soft to flying.

Quite Being nitpicky.
On topic, chain the rocks makes rabblemaster Much better.

You have no idea how right you are. After playing today, I'm considering moving up to the full set

Ashcloud Phoenix is fucking sick, and I've been waiting for a list where I'd run 2-4 in the main.

This is also one of my spec cards, with 16 copies owned.


4 CttR seems reasonable, given that we don't really have any other 1-mana plays besides Swifty. I really really don't like Sarkhan in this.

Deflecting Palm is still a card that seems to have dividing opinions. I'm still not sure if I want 3 in the main as a method to collect free wins, or if I want them in the side to bring in against BigDumbFatties.Dec.

Please don't run three in your 60. In fact, don't run any in your 60.

Some results from tcgplayer states


Michael Long 1st Place
2014 Standard State Championships - New Jersey
[deck]Main Deck:
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way

1 Chandra, Pyromaster

3 Arc Lightning
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames

4 Battlefield Forge
11 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag

Sideboard:
1 Arc Lightning
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
1 Banishing Light
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Deflecting Palm
2 Erase
2 Glare of Heresy
3 Hushwing Gryff
1 Suspension Field[/deck]


Garrett Lambert 5th-8th
2014 Standard State Championships - North Carolina
[deck]Main Deck:
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Seeker of the Way

1 Chandra, Pyromaster

3 Arc Lightning
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames

4 Battlefield Forge
11 Mountain
4 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag

Sideboard:
1 Act of Treason
2 Banishing Light
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Erase
2 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
1 Harness by Force
2 Hushwing Gryff
3 Suspension Field[/deck]


Dylan Huckabone 3rd-4th
2014 Standard State Championships - North Carolina
[deck]Main Deck:
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way

1 Chandra, Pyromaster

3 Arc Lightning
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames

4 Battlefield Forge
11 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag

Sideboard:
2 Act of Treason
1 Arc Lightning
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Banishing Light
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Deflecting Palm
2 Erase
2 Hushwing Gryff
1 Suspension Field[/deck]

Lee Marino 1st Place
2014 Standard State Championships - Colorado
[deck]Main Deck:
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way
3 Stormbreath Dragon

3 Arc Lightning
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Stoke the Flames

4 Battlefield Forge
12 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard:
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Deflecting Palm
3 Disdainful Stroke
3 Erase
3 Magma Spray
2 Negate[/deck]

Blaine Johnson 5th-8th
2014 Standard State Championships - Arizona
[deck]Main Deck:
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way

3 Arc Lightning
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames

4 Battlefield Forge
1 Mana Confluence
11 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard:
1 Arc Lightning
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Banishing Light
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Erase
4 Hushwing Gryff
2 Magma Spray
2 Ride Down[/deck]

yeah idk Val
deflecting palm main has some results

How did Lee Morino cast the counterspells from his sideboard is what I want to know.

And of course all have three maindeck Palm.

I mean it's great that they all placed well but 1) it's States and 2) it's States.