Scalding Tarn (Modern)[Article] - Winning my way into Modern.

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Post #121 by Khaospawn » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:39 pm

Exactly. Same here.
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Winning my way into Modern and into Legacy

Post #122 by toddulent » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:28 pm

I read this post and really loved the idea. I just ordered the cards for the Mono-Green Infect. I did a little digging around and found it can be ported to Legacy with a few changes and roughly $240.00 ($200 of which goes to 4x Berserk in the main and 2x Umezawa's Jitte in the side.). Here is the list:

[deck=Legacy Mono-Green Infect]
Creatures (20)
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Necropede
4 Plague Myr
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Spells (18)
4 Berserk
4 Mutagenic Growth
2 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Invigorate

Lands (22)
16 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Pendelhaven

Sideboard (15)
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Nature's Claim
4 Xanthid Swarm
2 Spellskite
2 Umezawa's Jitte
[/deck]

My plan is to play the Modern list as often as possible. I have two stores that have Modern every Thursday, so I have one opportunity a week. There are two stores that have Legacy, one
Tuesday and one Saturday. Once I have the Modern deck down and have acquired the Legacy cards, I should be able to do well in Legacy.

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Post #123 by Valdarith » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:00 pm

I'm hoping to do the same with my UR Delver list, working my way toward Volcanic Islands, Forces, and Stifles as funds and trades allow.
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Post #124 by toddulent » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:47 pm

Valdarith » Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:00 pm wrote:I'm hoping to do the same with my UR Delver list, working my way toward Volcanic Islands, Forces, and Stifles as funds and trades allow.


Right on.

There was a post on gatheringmagic recently. He took a Modern deck, ported it to Legacy, then ported it to Vintage. I liked the idea, but there was no way I could afford the Modern deck straight off. This is more doable for me.

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Post #125 by toddulent » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:53 am

I got all of the cards for the Infect deck except Vines of Vastwood today. Those should come in tomorrow. I'll be playing Thursday night.

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Post #126 by toddulent » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:30 am

toddulent » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:53 pm wrote:I got all of the cards for the Infect deck except Vines of Vastwood today. Those should come in tomorrow. I'll be playing Thursday night.


Played TNModern. 8 people. 3 Rounds. R1 2-1 vs UrzaTron. R2 1-2 vs MeliraPod. R3 1-2 vs UR Control of some sort.

My order of Vines of Vastwood didn't come in yesterday or today, so I got them at the store before we started. I didn't get a chance to goldfish it and played cold. I made a lot of play mistakes. This is my first time playing Infect. I play a lot of aggro in Standard, but wasn't thinking about being as aggressive as possible.

I mulliganed the first hand when I shouldn't have game 1, but I still won. Game 2, he sided in Spellskite and I had never experience playing against it. I wasn't sure
what was happening when he was taking 2 life and redirecting pumps. I hadn't sided in removal, because he hadn't played creatures game 1. Game 3 I just had the nut draw and had a turn 2 kill.

I won the first game vs MeliraPod even after my play mistakes. Too many play mistakes lost me the second game. Third game I got mana flooded. I kept pumping creatures he blocked to kill off his creatures instead of creatures he didn't block. Learned from that mistake.

Round 3 was just obnoxious. He won game 1 with Gideon Jura. I played pretty tightly, but he just kept countering everything I had. Game 2 was another nut draw T2 kill. Game 3 took forever, because of mana flood and counter/burn. I think we had a stack of 6 cards at one point. I manage to get Glistener Elf pumped to lethal, he plays more burn, I Ranger's Guile and he Mana Leaks. FACK! At that point I was just annoyed. I knew I should have sided in anti-control and didn't. The plan was to just beat him down, but COUNTERS! Oh, well.

Entry was
$10 and a Modern Masters pack per match win. After paying $40 for the deck I am a quarter of the way to making my money back. Next week is the same. I'll have a better grasp on the deck. The MeliraPod guy is a friend and we'll play between Sealed matches tomorrow. I had a blast. And I think the plan is to upgrade this to either BG or BUG Infect.

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Post #127 by Platypus » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:17 am

Khaospawn » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:33 pm wrote:I'm at work, going from memory, so here it goes :

[Deck]
Creature 12
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer

Weapon 2
2 Runechanter's Pike

Spells 28
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Burst Lightning
2 Vapor Snag
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Thought Scour
4 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Spell Pierce

Land 18
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Mountain
4 Island
2 Mutavault
[/deck]

Trust me, there's plenty of room for tweaks.


I'm planning on trying this out in my next Modern FNM. I've acquired the Snapcasters (read: borrowed...) that was missing from this list (ok, my lands are a bit different). Any recent changes? Sideboard? I'm thinking
about adding a single Isochron Scepter for some lulz (in this case I'd change Pillar of Flame into Magma Spray).

As for sideboard: I'm thinking Molten Rain, Threads of Disloyalty, Magma Spray, Combust, Pithing Needle, Forked Bolt, Hibernation.

Has anyone tried cards like Exhaustion and Early Frost for some tempo play? But maybe that dilutes the deck too much for little gain?
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Post #128 by Alex » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:20 pm

You're going to want some number of [card]Hurkyl's Recall[/card] probably. It's probably better than Molten Rain by a long mile since it actively wins you the game vs. Affinity. Molten Rain doesn't always mean you'll beat Scapeshift, they can board into red burn and beat you that way and it is piss poor against Tron since they play the lands as 4ofs with ways to tutor them. They'll just find another one.

I haven't tried Early Frost but I did play Artful Dodge in my Standard Delver list back in the day as a way to make sure the last 6 damage stuck. Not really the exact same point of tempo, but it had the same effect. (Make them dead.)

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Post #129 by Valdarith » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:31 pm

I happen to like the sideboard in my list quite a bit. Hibernation vs Boggles is a game-winner, Affinity gets hosed by Electrolyze + Recall, Combust + Counterflux makes UWR Wafo-Tapa a breeze.

I don't like siding in permanents like Threads or Pithing Needle since it lowers my instant and sorcery count. Plus Jund runs Abrupt Decay so I've never understood why blue decks ran it to steal a Tarmogoyf that they're just going to steal back. Runechanter's Pike has a similar problem with Abrupt Decay but my strategy is to just side those out since the game is more about attrition with them. You just want to win with a swarm of 1/1s from Young Pyromancer. Granted, I've yet to play Jund (no one around here can afford it) but the strategy sounds good in my head.
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Post #130 by Valdarith » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:34 pm

My list for reference:

[deck]
Creatures (12)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage

Spells (30)
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Pierce
4 Magma Jet
4 Remand
3 Mana Leak
2 Runechanter's Pike

Lands (18)
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
2 Mountain
6 Island

Sideboard (15)
2 Dispel
2 Pillar of Flame
1 Vandalblast
1 Shattering Blow
2 Combust
3 Hibernation
2 Electrolyze
2 Counterflux
[/deck]
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Post #131 by Platypus » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:51 pm

@Alex, I always forget Hurkyl's Recall is Modern legal. A few of those will certainly go into the sideboard.

@Valdarith, I've seen your list, but for some reason I copied an earlier version into my OneNote deck repository. Good point on Threads and Needle. As for the rest, I currently don't have any Electrolyzes or Counterfluxes, and only one Hibernation. So I can't copy your SB as such.

I haven't decided on my maindeck yet. I really like the idea of a single Isochron Scepter, so I'm going to try that. I don't have four Snapcasters anyway, so it will take one of those slots. And I'm thinking of trying 1-2 Gigadrowse in the deck as well.
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Post #132 by Valdarith » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:31 pm

Remand on a Scepter in this deck is ridiculous and something I really want to try.
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Post #133 by Platypus » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:52 pm

[deck]
Lands (18)
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Steam Vents
1 Faerie Conclave
3 Mountain
6 Island

Creatures (11)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Snapcaster Mage

Artifacts (3)
2 Runechanter's Pike
1 Isochron Scepter

Spells (28)
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Magma Spray
2 Burst Lightning
2 Gigadrowse
4 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Pierce

Sideboard (15)
1 Hibernation
3 Combust
2 Dispel
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Magma Spray
2 Shattering Blow
2 Izzet Charm
1 Vapor Snag
[/deck]

Very unsure about the SB to be honest, it feels like a pile. More confident with the maindeck. Oh well, it's a start.
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Post #134 by Valdarith » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:00 pm

I wouldn't run Gigadrowse, and I'd definitely want all four Remand if you can get them.

I've been very happy with Magma Jet in my list. It looks bad on paper but is amazing in practice. Helps me continue drawing gas, and the format is dominated by x/2s.

I also wouldn't bother with Izzet Charm in the side. You don't want flexible cards for the sideboard, you want answers to specific archetypes.
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Post #135 by Platypus » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:04 pm

Yeah, I have the Remands. Maybe I should drop the Gigadrowses to the sideboard at least, and don't try anything fancy as a first go. The Izzet Charms were just "I have to put something in there...but what?"
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Post #136 by Alex » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:07 pm


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Post #137 by Valdarith » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:25 pm

Yeah that can be a huge beating. Fetching a land you say? I think not...
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Post #138 by Platypus » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:40 pm

Have to put Shadow of Doubt on my to get list. Don't have any, and they're more expensive than I'd like right now. Trickbind instead as a budget alternative? As long as we're stopping fetchlands it should work. It isn't a cantrip though, that's a bummer.
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Post #139 by Platypus » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:55 pm

Hmm...Squelch is a cantrip...
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Post #140 by Alex » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:25 pm

Lol Shadow of Doubt is $5? I have like tons of them. Wow. Who would have guessed?

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Post #141 by Platypus » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:03 pm

Right, so this is what I've sleeved up so far:

[deck]
Lands (18)
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Steam Vents
1 Faerie Conclave
3 Mountain
6 Island

Creatures (11)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Grim Lavamancer

Artifacts (3)
2 Runechanter's Pike
1 Isochron Scepter

Spells (28)
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Magma Spray
2 Burst Lightning
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Pierce

Sideboard (15)
1 Hibernation
3 Combust
2 Dispel
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Magma Spray
2 Shattering Blow
2 Gigadrowse
1 Vapor Snag
[/deck]

The Grim Lavamancer is supposed to be a Snapcaster Mage, I hope to be able to borrow the third one from another friend of mine. Dropped the Gigadrowses to the sideboard for now, but I debating whether to drop them and the single Hibernation completely. I'd be adding more counters in their place. Is Flashfreeze worth it?
n
Lands are a bit worrying as well. I can't do much about the fetches, and I don't have any Sulfur Falls or Shivan Reefs. Thinking about adding two City of Brass, but I don't like it. Other options (Gemstone Mine?) aren't good either.
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Post #142 by Valdarith » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:49 am

Sulfur Falls are pretty cheap.
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Post #143 by Alex » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:53 am

Platypus » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:03 pm wrote:Right, so this is what I've sleeved up so far:

[deck]
Lands (18)
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Steam Vents
1 Faerie Conclave
3 Mountain
6 Island

Creatures (11)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Grim Lavamancer

Artifacts (3)
2 Runechanter's Pike
1 Isochron Scepter

Spells (28)
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Magma Spray
2 Burst Lightning
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Pierce

Sideboard (15)
1 Hibernation
3 Combust
2 Dispel
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Magma Spray
2 Shattering Blow
2 Gigadrowse
1 Vapor Snag
[/deck]

The Grim Lavamancer is supposed to be a Snapcaster Mage, I hope to be able to borrow the third one from another friend of mine. Dropped the Gigadrowses to the
sideboard for now, but I debating whether to drop them and the single Hibernation completely. I'd be adding more counters in their place. Is Flashfreeze worth it?

Lands are a bit worrying as well. I can't do much about the fetches, and I don't have any Sulfur Falls or Shivan Reefs. Thinking about adding two City of Brass, but I don't like it. Other options (Gemstone Mine?) aren't good either.

Sell one of your Scalding Tarns and buy Sulfur Falls and a pain land if you're that worried about it. (Which you shouldn't be, your mana isn't that awful.)

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Post #144 by Platypus » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:34 am

I'm not that worried about it. But it's a good point. How high can those fetches go, really? They're bound to be reprinted sooner or later. Right now I could get three Snapcasters of my own for my two Verdant Catacombs (selling them for store credits). Perhaps I should go for it...those VCs aren't really working in any deck I want to play right now.
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Post #145 by Alex » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:26 am

I would highly suggest it, it seems pretty unlikely that they make those Modern event decks and not reprint some of those fetches.

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Post #146 by Platypus » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:09 am

I agree, and I think the fetches are future Standard possible as well, once Shocklands leave. Snapcaster Mage, on the other hand, will never see Standard again. Which means it's event decks and Modern Masters 2 for him, and that won't lower the value much.
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Post #147 by Platypus » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:45 am

Ok, last chance to grab one of the Warleader's Helix promos tonight. FNM Modern, so time to try this out:

[deck]
Lands (18)
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Steam Vents
1 Faerie Conclave
3 Mountain
6 Island

Creatures (11)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Grim Lavamancer

Artifacts (3)
2 Runechanter's Pike
1 Isochron Scepter

Spells (28)
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Magma Spray
2 Magma Jet
3 Mana Leak
4 Remand
3 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Pierce

Sideboard (15)
1 Hibernation
3 Combust
2 Dispel
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Magma Spray
2 Shattering Blow
2 Negate
1 Mana Leak
[/deck]
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Post #148 by Platypus » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:45 pm

Ok, so some short notes.

Match 1: Gruul Zoo

I knew when I saw a Kird Ape first round that this would be tough. I've played enough Gruul Zoo myself to know how fast it can be. This deck had a full set of Tarmogoyfs as well, and when multiple of them hit the table it's hard to win. I realized that I need more anti-creature stuff in the deck. 0-2

Match 2: Domain Zoo of some kind

This match went better. First game went a bit grindy, but I managed to get a win. Second game I was in control and he got a bit mana flooded. Runechanter's Pike takes away large chunks of life. 2-0

Match 3: Mono Green Ramp

First game went really grindy, me with lots of creatures out, creating blockers with YP and holding the hordes of big creatures at bay with Pike-equipped creatures. In the end I just get overwhelmed though. Second game was a walk in the park. Removed every mana elf, got some Delvers flipped, a YP out and just was
in control the whole game. Third game needed to go fast, only five minutes left due to the lengthy first game. I kept a one lander. In my defense it was a Scalding Tarn, with two Delvers, one Magma Spray, one Lavamancer, and something else. Drew Delvers during the first rounds, I sat with them all either on the table or in my hand. Did they flip? No, not fast enough. Did I draw another land? No way...should have mulliganed that one after all. 1-2

Match 4: 4 Color Gifts

What can I say, don't have any graveyard manipulation so he had an inevitable win against me. 0-2

So 1-3 match record, I'm going to put the blame on lack of experience with the deck for this one. In general the deck felt solid, there's not much I want to change. The pikes were great to have, they either do damage quickly or create a big blocker (or attack, then blocker when you have the mana). The single Scepter stays for now, got to play it against the green deck. Don't think I want two though. Lavamancer was ok as well. The
spell section and sideboard need to be tweaked though. I need more spells that can handle creatures or protect mine. The fourth Vapor Snag might be worth it. And Magma Spray was ok, but I sometimes would have liked them to be Pillar of Flames in order to burn my opponent. So those I will change. Flame Slash might be needed to take down big creatures. So sideboard...I'm actually considering a couple of Flashfreeze, maybe three. They seem very flexible against our meta game, several green creatures, and many play with red spells (Bolt, Pillar, Helix) or Abrupt Decay. I could use Negate and Essence Scatter, but I think Flashfreeze might be better and more flexible. I need some anti-graveyard stuff. I think I will go with some Tormod's Crypts for now, don't have any Relic of Progenitus. Faerie Macabre might be better though, you usually just want to remove specific cards and instant speed would be nice to have. Surgical Extraction is another option, and those wouldn't disturb the Delver flipping either. What
else did I think about...right, creature protection. We seem to have a removal heavy meta, so I'm thinking Mizzium Skin? But maybe a full set of Vapor Snag is enough? Turn to Mist?

Oh, and despite my losses I got a promo Warleader's Helix. Got lucky in the random draw for one.
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Post #149 by Platypus » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:00 am

Lingering Souls seems to be popular around here as well, so something like Forked Bolt, Arc Trail, or Electrickery might be good. Or are there any better cheap 2-4-1s/sweepers that don't kill my stuff as well?
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Post #150 by Khaospawn » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:31 pm

The deck is pretty thought intensive. It certainly rewards skill.
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Post #151 by Platypus » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:03 pm

Yeah, I didn't expect to master it the first time. But a 2-2 result would have been nice. Felt a bit lost with the sideboarding as well.
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Post #152 by Alex » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:22 pm

Forked Bolt or Arc Trail is probably pretty good out of the board.

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Post #153 by Valdarith » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:30 pm

I like some mix of Forked Bolt and Electrolyze in the 75.
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Post #154 by Platypus » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:53 pm

I have to go with Arc Trail for the moment, since I have only one Forked Bolt and no Electrolyzes.
Last edited by Platypus on Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #155 by Platypus » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:03 pm

I think I'll try this one next time:

[deck]
Lands (18)
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Steam Vents
1 Faerie Conclave
3 Mountain
6 Island

Creatures (11)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Grim Lavamancer

Artifacts (3)
2 Runechanter's Pike
1 Isochron Scepter

Spells (28)
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Magma Jet
3 Mana Leak
4 Remand
4 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Pierce

Sideboard (15)
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Combust
2 Arc Trail
2 Pillar of Flame
1 Mana Leak
2 Negate
3 Flashfreeze
[/deck]

I'm tempted to try dropping the Scepter for a third Runechanter's Pike, because it was such a welcome draw. Isochron Scepter is good, but force you to keep some good stuff to imprint. It might be a bad topdeck, and it's often drawn late because it's a singleton. A second Lavamancer might be good as well. You don't want any wasted draws with this deck, that I
noticed yesterday.
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Post #156 by Valdarith » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:40 pm

I wouldn't run more than two Pike. They're not good in multiples.
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Post #157 by Platypus » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:51 pm

You're probably right about that. I realized when I wrote that about bad topdecks that I'm not sure I want to draw a second Pike either. So two is right. Well, it's a second Lavamancer then for now, but I'll hopefully have access to a third Snapcaster next time.
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Post #158 by Platypus » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:18 am

Lo and behold, I have made a primer!

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2275

Who would have thought that...

Still a work in progress, but it's a start. Let's move all UR Delver discussions there.
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Post #159 by toddulent » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:30 am

I am really close to having this put together.

Mono-Green Devotion Genesis Wave

[deck]Creatures:24
4 Arbor Elf
3 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Strangleroot Geist
4 Eternal Witness
2 Wistful Selkie
3 Primeval Titan
1 Craterhoof Behemoth

Spells:16
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Fertile Ground
4 Genesis Wave
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Primal Command
1 Rude Awakening

Lands:20
13 Forest
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Kessing Wolf Run
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Stomping Ground

Sideboard:15
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Nature's Claim
1 Strangleroot Geist
2 Vexing Shusher
1 Beast Within
3 Damping Matrix
1 Dismember
1 Acidic Slime
1 Fracturing Gust[/deck]
I just need:

Creatures
4 Eternal Witness
1 Craterhoof Behemoth

Spells
4 Garruk Wildspeaker

I am considering replacing the Craterhoof Behemoth with Worldspine Wurm, because I have 1 and 15/15 and replaces himself and recursion. Thoughts?

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Post #160 by Dutch253 » Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:59 am

Thinking about giving mono green Infect a go. My end goal is to build Kiki Pod. I've got the deck maybe halfway built (been building it for about 2 months) but man those fetches...I'm hoping I can rock mono green infect and either invest the winnings into Pod or convert the mono green to BUG infect and build pod from there. Kinda hurts to consider playing Infect since I feel it's a cheap and thoughtless strategy but I've played against it numerous times and it's undeniably powerful.


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