Command Tower (EDH/Commander)Commander Staples and Commonly Used Cards

Discussions about the EDH/Commander format

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Commander Staples and Commonly Used Cards

Post #1 by DroppinSuga » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:13 am

*credit to Pontiac at the Mothership for starting the list

The following is a list of EDH/Commander staples and frequently used cards sorted by color. If you have any suggestions for additions, reply and we'll add them to the list.

Colorless staples

[cards]Sensei's Divining Top
Sol Ring
Crucible of Worlds
Mimic Vat
Oblivion Stone
Solemn Simulacrum
Mind's Eye
Duplicant
All is Dust
Reliquary Tower
Strip Mine
Temple of the False God[/cards]


White staples

[cards]Land Tax
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Return to Dust
Hallowed Burial
Austere Command
Kor Haven
Wrath of God
Day of Judgment
Terminus[/cards]


Blue staples

[cards]Mystical Tutor
Mana Drain
Fact or Fiction
Rite of Replication
Future Sight
Consecrated Sphinx
Academy Ruins
Cyclonic Rift
Blatant Thievery
Bribery[/
cards]


Black staples

[cards]Vampiric Tutor
Demonic Tutor
Withered Wretch
Necropotence
Decree of Pain
Bojuka Bog
Cabal Coffers
Volrath's Stronghold
Damnation[/cards]


Red staples:

[cards]Chaos Warp
Anger
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Insurrection[/cards]


Green staples:

[cards]Survival of the Fittest
Sylvan Library
Eternal Witness
Genesis
Seedborn Muse
Mana Reflection
Sylvan Primordial
Natural Order[/cards]



Multicolor staples

[cards]Bant Charm
Vindicate
Memory Plunder
Mirari's Wake
Debtors' Knell
Angel of Despair[/cards]



The following is a list of frequently used cards in EDH (Commander)


Colorless:


[cards]Mana Crypt
Tormod's Crypt
Scroll Rack
Skullclamp
Extraplanar Lens
Thran Dynamo
Gilded Lotus
Gauntlet of Power
Caged Sun
Steel Hellkite
Wurmcoil Engine
Akroma's Memorial
Artisan of Kozilek
Kozilek,
Butcher of Truth
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Deserted Temple
Dust Bowl
High Market
Maze of Ith
Miren, the Moaning Well
Mystifying Maze
Thawing Glaciers
Vesuva
Wasteland
Rings of Brighthearth
Ancient Tomb[/cards]


White:


[cards]Condemn
Enlightened Tutor
Luminarch Ascension
Stoneforge Mystic
Aven Mindcensor
Stonecloaker
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Marshal's Anthem
Archon of Justice
Karmic Guide
Reveillark
Rout
Stonehewer Giant
Akroma's Vengeance
Martyr's Bond
Sun Titan
Twilight Shepherd
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Reya Dawnbringer
Emeria, the Sky Ruin
Angel of Serenity[/cards]

Blue:


[cards]Lighthouse Chronologist
Willbender
Blue Sun's Zenith
Capsize
Hinder
Rhystic Study
Spell Crumple
Trinket Mage
Cryptic Command
Phyrexian Metamorph
Acquire Bribery
Desertion
Mnemonic Wall
Vesuvan Shapeshifter
Gather Specimens
Spelljack
Diluvian Primordial
Chancellor of the Spires
Commandeer
Sphinx of
Uthuun
Vesuvan Doppelganger
Clone[/cards]

Black:


[cards]Imperial Seal
Nihil Spellbomb
Animate Dead
Exsanguinate
Nezumi Graverobber
Necromancy
Phyrexian Arena
Praetor's Grasp
Syphon Mind
Beacon of Unrest
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Puppeteer Clique
Geth, Lord of the Vault
Massacre Wurm
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Nirkana Revenant
Sheoldred, Whispering One
Phyrexian Tower
Black Sun's Zenith[/cards]

Red:


[cards]Imperial Recruiter
Starstorm
Reiterate
Chain Reaction
Into the Core
Wild Ricochet
Urabrask the Hidden
Inferno Titan
Warstorm Surge
Vicious Shadows
Bogardan Hellkite
Lavaball Trap
Blasphemous Act
Kher Keep
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle[/cards]

Green:


[cards]Green Sun's Zenith
Scavenging Ooze
Beast Within
Cultivate
Genesis Wave
Kodama's Reach
Krosan Grip
Acidic Slime
Primal Command
Restock
Deadwood Treefolk
Tooth and Nail
Terastodon
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
nWoodfall Primus
Gaea's Cradle
Boundless Realms
Praetor's Counsel[/cards]


Multicolor:


[cards]Eladamri's Call
Lim-Dul's Vault
Saffi Eriksdotter
Aura Shards
Maelstrom Pulse
Pernicious Deed
Voidslime
Mystical Teachings
All Suns' Dawn
Fracturing Gust
Havengul Lich
Izzet Chronarch
Spitting Image
Conflux
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Kessig Wolf Run
Krosan Verge
Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree[/cards]
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Post #2 by Alex » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:24 am

Weathered Wayfarer is a big one in white.

You could probably get away with adding X Sun's Zenith to every color too, since basically all of them are playable to some degree. Red is the only borderline unplayable one.

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Post #3 by Manasjap » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:51 am

Plague Wind in black, Mirror Entity in white maybe?
Also, Expedition Map and Walking Atlas as frequently played.

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Post #4 by Khaospawn » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:23 pm

Gamble, Vandalblast, Into the Core, Shattering Pulse, Aftershock, Reiterate, and Urza's Rage should all be in the Red staples.

Aldo, Burnished Hart from THS should be on this list now. Card is so good.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #5 by Khaospawn » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:04 pm

I didn't see that there was a second list of red cards.
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hamfactorial » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:41 pm wrote:In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.

Col. Khaddafi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:02 pm wrote:I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

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Post #6 by Azrael » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:31 am

I haven't yet found a Commander staples list that makes much sense at all within my metagame, which tends to be more cutthroat than most. There's an awful lot of cards out there, and it can be difficult to be both pretty comprehensive, and also discriminating and accurate in assessing power level. So, I thought I'd take a stab at a list that covers some of the territory that sometimes gets glossed over, like the nuts and bolts that go into a blue card draw engine, the best green ramp, and all those little niche cards like Contamination that can completely pwn in the right lists.

Cards that I list as tier one are cards that are really compelling choices for almost any list, or that are powerful enough to build around. Tier two cards tend to be somewhat more situational or lower power. Cards such as Possessed Portal, Solitary Confinement, or Notorious Throng, which can be broken in a narrow range of decks, I've tended to
leave off the list entirely. I also left off most generals, unless they commonly moonlight as ordinary singletons.

List
White-

Tier 1
[cards]Orim's Chant
Silence
Darksteel Mutation
Entreat the Angels
Felidar Sovereigh
Mirror Entity
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Enlightened Tutor
Enduring Ideal
Armageddon/Ravages of War
Austere Command
Hallowed Burial
Storm Herd
Moat[/cards]

Tier 2
[cards]Serra Ascendant
True Conviction
Celestial Mantle
Abeyance
Wrath of God
Rout
Day of Judgment
Land Tax
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Idyllic Tutor
Luminarch Ascension
Replenish
Open the Vaults
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Stoneforge Mystic
Stonehewer Giant
Oblivion Ring
Lin Sivvi
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Admonition Angel
Weathered Wayfarer
Steelshaper's Gift
Parallax Wave
Academy Rector
Sun Titan
Catastrophe
Terminus
Prison Term
Grand Abolisher
Aven Mindcensor
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Loyal Retainers
Yosei, the Morning
Star[/cards]

Green

Tier 1
[cards]Tooth and Nail
Worldly Tutor
Sylvan Tutor
Natural Order
Joraga Treespeaker
Bloom Tender
Lotus Cobra
Devoted Druid
Exploration
Burgeoning
Harmonize
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Green Sun's Zenith
Avenger of Zendikar
Eternal Witness
Garruk Wildspeaker
Mana Reflection
Hermit Druid
Somberwald Sage
Greater Good
Survival of the Fittest[/cards]

Tier 2
[cards]Rampaging Baloths
Food Chain
Terastodon
Skyshroud Ranger/Sakura Tribe Scout
Skyshroud Poacher
Deranged Hermit
Skyshrould Claim
Cultivate
Kodama's Reach
Fyndhorn Elder/Greenweaver Dryad/Nantuko Elder
Fyndhorn Elves/Llanowar Elves/Elven Mystic/Birds/Noble Hierarch etc.
Sylvan Tutor/Crop Rotation
Defense of the Heart
Living Wish
Beast Within
Overgrowth
Elvish Piper
Elvish Harbinger
Seedborn Muse
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
Fierce Empath
Sylvan Library
Azusa, Lost But Seeking
Earthcraft
Life from the Loam
Regrowth
Recollect
Holistic
Wisdom
Birthing Pod[/cards]

Blue

Tier 1
[cards]Memnarch
Thada Adel, Acquisitor
Overwhelming Intellect
Sunder
Tezzeret, the Seeker
Fact or Fiction
Jace's Ingenuity
Gilded Drake
Treachery
Back to Basics
Diluvian Primordial
Kaho, Minamo Historian
Bribery
Mystical Tutor
Personal Tutor
Fabricate
Spell Crumple
Hinder
Knowledge Exploitation
Time Stretch
Time Warp
Temporal Manipulation
Capture of Jingzhou
Mana Drain
Counterspell
Glen Elendra Archmage
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Intuition
Recurring Insight
Myojin of Seeing Winds
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
Omniscience
Timetwister[/cards]

Tier 2
[cards]Intruder Alarm
Acquire
Exclude
Negate
Cryptic Command
Rewind
Forbid
Desertion
Spelljack
Commandeer
Force of Will
Misdirection
Foil
Blatant Thievery
Rite of Replication
Trinket Mage
Walk the Aeons
Temporal Mastery
Mind Spring
Braingeyser
Blue Sun's Zenith
Stroke of Genius
Tidings
Concentrate
Opportunity
Deep Analysis
nVenser, Shaper Savant
Snapcaster Mage
Power Artifact
Apprentice Wizard
Time Spiral
Perplexing Chimaera
Cunning Wish
Consecrated Sphinx
Phyrexian Metamorph
Copy Artifact
Llawan, Cephalid Empress
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Rapid Hybridization
Pongify
Amnesia
Roil Elemental
Curse of the Swine
Arcanis, the Omnipotent
Future Sight
Magus of the Future
Sphinx Ambassador
Control Magic
Pact of Negation
Palinchron
Rhystic Study
Mystic Remora
Gather Specimens
Ixidron
Lighthouse Chronologist
Capsize
Leyline of Anticipation[/cards]

Red

Tier 1
[cards]Vicious Shadows
Godo, Bandit Warlord
Gamble
Orcish Settlers
Chaos Warp
Ruination
Blood Moon
Magus of the Moon
Insurrection
Burning Wish
Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Goblin Welder
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Imperial Recruiter
Decree of Annihilation[/cards]

Tier 2
[cards]Wild Ricochet
Reiterate
Hellkite Charger
Dwarven Miner/Dwarven Blastminer
Inferno Titan
Reiterate
Wild Riccochet
nUrabrask, the Hidden
Fervor
Hammer of Purphoros
Balefire Dragon
Hellkite Tyrant
Sudden Demise
Strangehold
Pyroblast
Red Elemental Blast
Vandal Blast
Viashino Heretic[/cards]

Black

Tier 1
[cards]Overwhelming Forces
Vampiric Tutor
Demonic Tutor
Imperial Seal
Grim Tutor
Cruel Tutor
Beseech the Queen
Insidious Dreams
Phage, the Untouchable
Army of the Damned
Ambition's Cost
Promise of Power
Contamination
Damnation
Decree of Pain
Go for the Throat
Liliana of the Veil
Sepulchral Primordial
Liliana Vess
Rise of the Dark Realms
Hatred[/cards]

Tier 2
[cards]Sorin Markov
Infernal Darkness
Death Cloud
Plague Wind
Life's Finale
Yawgmoth's Will
Phyrexian Arena
Head Games
Mind Twist
Persecute
Diabolic Tutor
Demonic Collusion
Increasing Ambition
Diabolic Revelation
Animate Dead
Necromancy
Necrologia
Necropotence
Crypt Ghast
Nirkana Revenant
Skeletal Scrying
Myojin of Night's Whisper
Sever the Bloodline
nDiabolic Intent
Hero's Downfall
Grave Titan
Mind Sludge
Living Death
Sheoldred, Whispering One
Living Death
Twilight's Call
Graveborn Muse
Ill-gotten Gains
Victimize
Fleshbag Marauder
Nezumi Graverobber
Praetor's Grasp
Mutilate
Dread Return
Diabolic Servitude[/cards]

Colorless

Tier 1
[cards]Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
Grim Monolith
Mana Vault
Gaea's Cradle
Boseiju, who Shelters All
Academy Ruins
Volrath's Stronghold
Homeward Path
Cavern of Souls
Cabal Coffers
Thawing Glaciers
Hall of the Bandit Lord
Maze of Ith
Wasteland
Strip Mine
Reliquary Tower
Expedition Map
Skullclamp
Crucible of Worlds
Lightning Greaves
All is Dust
Thran Dynamo
Gilded Lotus
Worn Powerstone
Blighsteel Colossus
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth[/cards]

Tier 2
[cards]Mangara's Tome
Deserted Temple
Mindslaver
Dust Bowl
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Windbrisk Heights
Mosswort Bridge
Scrying Sheets
nRishadon Port
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Vesuva
Alchemist's Refuge
Yavimaya Hollow
Karn Liberated
Karn, Silver Golem
Phyrexian Processor
Cauldron of Souls
Memory Jar
Sculpting Steel
Scroll Rack
Doubling Cube
Everflowing Chalice
Artisan of Kozilek
Pathrazer of Ulamog
Palladium Myr
Oblivion Stone
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Light and Shadow
Sword of War and Peace
Rings of Brighthearth
Sunforger
Argentum Armor
Well of Lost Dreams
Mind's Eye
Phyrexian Portal
Extraplanar Lens
Gauntlet of Power
Duplicant
Temple of the False God
Ancient Tomb
Soldevi Excavations
Kor Haven
Riptide Laboratory
Flagstones of Trokair
Eldrazi Monument
Coat of Arms
Thousand Year Elixir
Vedalken Orrery
Astral Cornucopia
Sensei's Divining Top[/cards]

Gold

Tier 1
[cards]Sovereigns of Lost Alara/Eldrazi Conscription/Celestial Mantle/Battle Mastery
Magister Sphinx
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Mirari's Wake
Eladamri's
Call
Kiora's Follower
Pernicious Deed
Supreme Verdict
Detention Sphere
Bant Charm
Maelstrom Pulse
Vindicate
Aura Shards
Spitting Image[/cards]

Tier 2
[cards]Mortify
Putrefy
Rakdos Charm
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Lord of Extinction
Dovescape
Debtor's Knell
Consuming Aberration
Dralnu, Lich Lord
Havengul Lich
Trygon Predator
Plasm Capture
Aurelia's Fury
Zur, the Enchanter
Captain Sisay
Gaddock Teeg
Cold-Eyed Selkie
Medomai, the Ageless
Finest Hour
Prophet of Kruphix[/cards]

Just a couple examples of tier one choices that don't seem to get much love:

Orim's Chant and Silence. For a single mana, you can completely shut down an opponent's turn. In 1v1, that can come very close to being an absurdly inexpensive Time Warp, and it's certainly not bad in multiplayer either, when someone is getting out of hand, or when you need to prevent someone from disrupting your win. Given the magnitude of cards you ought to be
drawing in many of the more sophisticated commander lists, the tempo landslide it can generate is well worth the -1 card.

Somberwald Sage, Devouted Druid, Joraga Treespeaker, Lotus Cobra, Exploration, Burgeoning, Skyshroud Ranger, Sakura Tribe Scout - There are a lot of decks that are trying to ramp into big, expensive guys like Maelstrom Wanderer, or Damia, or maybe a 3rd turn Riku. The multiple early acceleration drops provided by these cards are invaluable in creating some really nice, explosive starts for green. If you have blue in your list, and pack in your intermediary card draw spells, your Concentrates, Fact or Fictions, etc., you can generate a really nice, dominant position.

Comments, suggestions?

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Post #7 by Toddington » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:38 pm

Spoiler tags? Long post is long...

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Post #8 by redthirst » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:48 pm

Your insight has been invaluable.
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Originally posted by Dechs Kaison on MTGS
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.

Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.

Great guy to have around? Hell yes.



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Post #9 by redthirst » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:56 pm

Az, I'd put Hoarding Dragon in there. Red has so few tutor effects that every little bit helps and that one is attached to a respectable ass-whuppin stick.
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Originally posted by Dechs Kaison on MTGS
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.

Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.

Great guy to have around? Hell yes.



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Post #10 by Azrael » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:14 pm

redthirst » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:56 pm wrote:Az, I'd put Hoarding Dragon in there. Red has so few tutor effects that every little bit helps and that one is attached to a respectable ass-whuppin stick.


Hoarding Dragon is one of those cards where I turn up my nose and sniff pretentiously.

Once you get up to the five mana mark, I generally want to be 1) drawing cards, 2), generating 3 or more mana, preferably immediately available for use 3) Threatening to win on the spot (Bribery, Felidar Sovereigns, Hatred, Grafted Exo-Skeleton, etc.) 4) Taking Extra Turns 5) Countermagic that puts me ahead a turn such as Desertion 6) Blowing stuff up.

Hoarding Dragon gets me a 4/4 flying body (almost irrelevant in terms of damage compared to other threats in the meta I'm
dealing with - people tap for five and get freakin' Eldrazi, or Avenger of Zendikar) and gets me an artifact into my hand...when it eventually dies (who knows when that will be). I'm not really getting ahead on either tempo or card advantage or versatility. I like Fabricate mainly because it's cheap enough to grab a Sol Ring or Mana Crypt when they'll do the most good- by the time I have 5 mana, that tutor effect is much less compelling. Like, I'm seldom going to Demonic Collusion or Diabolic Tutor for an artifact, I'm usually going to use those to grab a win condition or extra turn effect. It's too dangerous and time-consuming to spend five mana on a tutor without affecting the board in a significant way. Now, if Hoarding Dragon put the artifact into play when it died, I might use it to cheat stuff like Memnarch, Argentum Armor, or Blightsteel Colossus into play in one or two lists (Nin would love that), but into my hand? Sad face.

Aside from ramping, most artifacts just aren't that compelling
as tutor targets for my meta compared to the other options available, and even if there were some good ones, I'd rather use a tutor that puts the rock into my hand immediately.

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Post #11 by Alex » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:24 pm

Steel Hellkite is a pretty good card universally. I play it in pretty much every deck because of how good it is against token strategies. That said, I wouldn't mind playing another way to tutor for it in mono red.

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Post #12 by Azrael » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:10 pm

Alex » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:24 pm wrote:Steel Hellkite is a pretty good card universally. I play it in pretty much every deck because of how good it is against token strategies. That said, I wouldn't mind playing another way to tutor for it in mono red.


Hellkite is another card that can provide some decent utility over time, if it's permitted to resolve, to survive, and to connect. Maybe that has some value in larger multiplayer formats, where political considerations and resource management dictates that the 2nd tier threats, that aren't threatening to immediately kill people, can be permitted to resolve and stick to the table and connect multiple times.

It's hard for me to buy into it, though, with the situation I'm in. I'm designing for a format where four to five people is
about the max, and there are only two ways our games tend to end. Games with lots of blue where 1) countermagic, attrition, and card advantage battles are playing out, and almost everything is getting either countered or removed prior to its first combat phase, and the person who chooses to tap down for an expensive spell had better make it worthwhile to resolve, because when you do finally give your opponents an opening they're going to make it count by either taking out half your life total, crippling your mana, or just taking all the remaining turns of the game and killing everyone, and 2) games that end in a cataclysmic series of events somewhere between turns three and seven, in which someone has raced far, far ahead of everyone else/crippled everyone else, and can kill everyone around the table before they had a chance to really get online and fully raise their defenses.

Steel Hellkite doesn't really have a place in that metagame. Removal has to be both cheap, versatile, and immediately active,
or else whatever your opponent is using is going to kill you before you have the chance to deploy it. Threats need to be able to end the game immediately, as soon as an opening emerges, or else your opponent will be more than happy to take advantage of their first opening to dispatch you.

Probably the only mono-red deck that would stand any chance in that metagame would be a well-tuned Krenko, but even then I wouldn't care to be the pilot. Eight turns into the game, if you're alive at all, you're going to be out of cards, with a general that costs eight mana to play, and your opponents will all have 16 mana, and 7 card grips.

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Post #13 by DarthStabber » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:30 am

wild ricochet is a card I see in almost every deck with more than a token commitment to red, I'm not running it in Nekusar or Sek'kuar, but I was, and everyone I play with seems to agree.

seizan perverter of truth is another card I see a fair bit. It's not common enough to really be a staple, but when I ask people about it, it seems like they are only not running him because they don't know he exists.

Rakdos charm does all the things. Everyone in those colors SHOULD be playing it, whether they are or aren't is a different question. It's an instant, it breaks artifacts, it clears graveyards, and it makes the guy playing the token deck really sad.

Astral cornucopia will probably get there. It's a sizable mana rock that can make any color. I just replaced a darksteel ingot with it,
and I have been very happy with the result (except for when it got vandalblasted thanks to the indiscriminacy of overload).
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thanks to nbw for the sig.
redthirst » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:18 pm wrote:You do need to try to gay it up a little more.

You're like the least gay member of this clan.

And that's counting the fact that you voluntarily have sex with men.

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Post #14 by DroppinSuga » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:17 am

Rakdos Charm has made for one of the funniest moments in my stores history. This one dude went infinite stating he was creating infinite tokens. He then swung at a guy to kill him and the guy dropped a Rakdos Charm. The look on that guys face when he had no answer. :rofl:
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Azrael
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Post #15 by Azrael » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:51 am

DarthStabber » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:30 pm wrote:wild ricochet is a card I see in almost every deck with more than a token commitment to red, I'm not running it in Nekusar or Sek'kuar, but I was, and everyone I play with seems to agree.

seizan perverter of truth is another card I see a fair bit. It's not common enough to really be a staple, but when I ask people about it, it seems like they are only not running him because they don't know he exists.

Rakdos charm does all the things. Everyone in those colors SHOULD be playing it, whether they are or aren't is a different question. It's an instant, it breaks artifacts, it clears graveyards, and it makes the guy playing the token deck really sad.

[card:
19mc7v8g]Astral cornucopia[/card] will probably get there. It's a sizable mana rock that can make any color. I just replaced a darksteel ingot with it, and I have been very happy with the result (except for when it got vandalblasted thanks to the indiscriminacy of overload).


Hmm, good points, added 3/4.

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Post #16 by DarthStabber » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:11 am

Have you played with seizan in a multiplayer commander game? Outside of Nekusar he's a 6/5 for 5, with a group hug effect as big as his massive grin, and in games where politics matter he's your best diplomat. In a nekusar deck he goes from friendly to frightening add two more draws to whatever punishment you've set up, and an additional 2 lifeloss per turn. Trust me he hurts so good.
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redthirst » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:18 pm wrote:You do need to try to gay it up a little more.

You're like the least gay member of this clan.

And that's counting the fact that you voluntarily have sex with men.

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Post #17 by Azrael » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:16 pm

DarthStabber » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:11 am wrote:Have you played with seizan in a multiplayer commander game? Outside of Nekusar he's a 6/5 for 5, with a group hug effect as big as his massive grin, and in games where politics matter he's your best diplomat. In a nekusar deck he goes from friendly to frightening add two more draws to whatever punishment you've set up, and an additional 2 lifeloss per turn. Trust me he hurts so good.


Isn't group hug kind of a logical fallacy, though? He's not really helping *you*, the player sitting next to the Seizan, he's providing additional cards to *everyone*, in a transparent effort to curry favor and not get killed. The extra cards help whoever is sitting closest to the left of the Seizan most, or whichever player is most starved for extra cards,
while the benefit of the cards is least likely to help the group hug player himself, since the Seizan has to make it all the way around the table. So it has the potential to make friends, and also the potential to make enemies (b/c it's also taking life away, and also people might not like certain players getting fed cards), but it's definitely creating a whole bunch of card advantage for people that you're eventually needing to kill. If you're in a position where you're trying to finish off the remaining players in the game, it's a really bad card to have on the table.

In groups that don't look at it that way, and think the group hug player is somehow helping them, sure. But I think there's a lot of groups that will say "thanks for the cards, bro", and then use the extra cards to help kill you whenever it suits them.

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Post #18 by Alex » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:15 pm

I like Seizan as a way to safely set up to go off in mono black decks. (The combo oriented ones of course, like Shirei or Drana.)

He gives you the two things you need in that deck; time and resources.

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Post #19 by Azrael » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:37 pm

Yeah, but he also gives everyone else time and resources, and they get them before you do, and without having to pay any mana or invest a card to get them. So if anyone along the line decides to blow him up, they're all between +2 and +1 cards up, to your one card down.

If you put a gun to my head and forced me to run that effect, I'd play Font of Mythos before I played Seizan. A mana cheaper, and much more likely to stick around.

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Post #20 by DarthStabber » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:43 am

How many times to you see font of mythos swing for 6?
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redthirst » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:18 pm wrote:You do need to try to gay it up a little more.

You're like the least gay member of this clan.

And that's counting the fact that you voluntarily have sex with men.

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Post #21 by Azrael » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:41 pm

DarthStabber » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:43 am wrote:How many times to you see font of mythos swing for 6?


Maybe I'm underrating the 6/5 body? Things have gotten to the point that I don't even run Serra Ascendant in any of my white decks anymore, though. A 6/6, even with evasion and lifelink, just hasn't offered enough damage, no matter the casting cost (unless I'm lucky enough to get it in the first 1-3 turns). Chain together three turns with Time Stretch and a 6 power dork hasn't killed anyone, not even close. Ascendant isn't even in my Oloro list.

Maybe I'm overly focused on 1v1? Fatties are much better in multi, defensively. But on the other hand, in multi particularly, you need threats that can take someone out immediately because there's so many people to kill with a lot of life
total to chew through, and you need removal that can deal decisively with a pretty broad spectrum of threats, because a Serra Ascendant/Seizan won't help that much if you're getting attacked by Army of the Damned tokens or Ulamog.

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Post #22 by DarthStabber » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:54 am

I must be playing a different game than you. I don't mean that sardonically or derisively, but in the environment I play in games are so often decided by "who's got the fatties" that I am trying to find ways to jam some "utility fatties" into my nekusar deck (even though currently the deck is mostly removal). And there have been several games where Mr. Pervert Demon has scared off a fair amount of damage or done a respectable amount.

So has rimescale dragon. Who also does a better than expected job of tying things down. Not saying he's great, but he does really well for a junk rare from coldsnap. And the snow requirements are light enough that you can just run snow basics instead of regular and be covered (I was running 12 basics before, when rimescale went in I just replaced with snow and it's never been an issue). Not a staple, but he's interesting to say
the least, and not hard to squeeze into decks.
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redthirst » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:18 pm wrote:You do need to try to gay it up a little more.

You're like the least gay member of this clan.

And that's counting the fact that you voluntarily have sex with men.

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Post #23 by Azrael » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:22 pm

DarthStabber » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:54 am wrote:I must be playing a different game than you. I don't mean that sardonically or derisively, but in the environment I play in games are so often decided by "who's got the fatties" that I am trying to find ways to jam some "utility fatties" into my nekusar deck (even though currently the deck is mostly removal). And there have been several games where Mr. Pervert Demon has scared off a fair amount of damage or done a respectable amount.

So has rimescale dragon. Who also does a better than expected job of tying things down. Not saying he's great, but he does really well for a junk rare from coldsnap. And the snow requirements are light enough that you can just run snow basics instead of regular and be
covered (I was running 12 basics before, when rimescale went in I just replaced with snow and it's never been an issue). Not a staple, but he's interesting to say the least, and not hard to squeeze into decks.


I think you're right. We went through a fatty metagame for a very long time, and a few of our better decks do still go that way, but recently there came a point where things flipped to allow a lot of the control decks to do more bursty kills and run fewer win cons. This is more typical of the archetypes that are running around our meta nowadays:

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=2424&view=unread#unread

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Post #24 by Jack » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:29 pm

DarthStabber » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:54 am wrote:
So has rimescale dragon. Who also does a better than expected job of tying things down. Not saying he's great, but he does really well for a junk rare from coldsnap. And the snow requirements are light enough that you can just run snow basics instead of regular and be covered (I was running 12 basics before, when rimescale went in I just replaced with snow and it's never been an issue). Not a staple, but he's interesting to say the least, and not hard to squeeze into decks.

I need to get one of those for Ashling, not just because it's part of my sig, but because it seems to give the mono red deck a surprising amount of control. He isn't perfect (one piece of spot removal makes all those ice counters
useless), but he brings something to a deck that they don't typically allow red to have.
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Sig by NBW.

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Post #25 by DarthStabber » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:28 am

He can at least buy you tempo with it if you drop it on a late turn and tap a thing or two.
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redthirst » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:18 pm wrote:You do need to try to gay it up a little more.

You're like the least gay member of this clan.

And that's counting the fact that you voluntarily have sex with men.

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Post #26 by Stardust » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:03 pm

I don't know if tempo is the right word for a 13 mana investment that ultimately gets negated by a 2 mana Doom Blade. ;)

Rimescale's not bad, but I generally dislike tapping stuff down in EDH. You can't hit everything, and the thing you ultimately do tap down may well have been heading towards someone else. That's why I try for rattlesnakes more than these active mana sinks. Especially in Ashling, where that 4 mana you have left open for responses always has a use EOT anyway.
҉

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Post #27 by Gatts » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:18 pm

Reclamation Sage should be added to the green section. Card has some serious value.


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