Red Deck Wins

[Valdarith]

Yep, then you'll go deep down the rabbit hole for Hunted Dragon and they'll be no turning back.

[LP, of the Fires]

More testing done.

Tier 1 matchups that I've gone over are as follows

Tempo/tarmo twin: laughably favorable

Affinity: Favorable, but very losable depending on their draw and build. Master of etherium is a bitch.

LSV Angel Pod: Slightly favorable depending on how many voices they draw, but you should generally have the edge.

Kiki Pod: Favorable as they lose to there manabase.

Melira Pod: Slightly unfavorable, since most play a million fink's and voices.

UWR control: slightly unfavorable, though they can't beat turn 2 shrine.

Yet to test:

American twin.

Jund(slight testing, but nothing conclusive).

Tron variants.

Burn.

Scapeshift.

Miscellaneous Combo such as Angel's Grace, Living end, Goryo's Vengeance, etc.

[Valdarith]

That's about what I'd expect. Let us know how your findings evolve.

[LP, of the Fires]

Preliminary stuff.

The jund matchup is VERY close and VERY skill intensive. You could probably take 5 Jund Players and 5 RDW players and they would feel uncomfortable with the matchup. Their Bobs are bad, which ironically can make them being on the play a liability since with Bob in hand, it's often correct to go Crack, Fetch, Shock, thoughtseize>Bob which obviously isn't the best against us. Additionally, turn 3 molten rain on the play often just wins the game. Having said that, Scooze is a stone cold killer and Liliana on curve with disruption does a very good job of locking up games. I think Game 1 is bad for us, but we get better after sideboarding. I've also been boarding out VD vs. Jund, but I'm gonna experiment with keeping them in. The reason I board it out is that it just eats removal which is fine, not great but either way, it doesn't seem like it does enough, but that's what testings for.

Trons
probably a good matchup since they're terrible at interacting and Fanatic even "trumps" wurmcoil engine.

Scapeshift, idk. We have the clock, and we have the hate, but I can still see that being a tricky one, especially postboard when they have baloths and things to go with all there cheap interaction.

American Twin is probably a terrible matchup. Electroylze, wall of omens, resto, and snap bolts? BLEH.

Storm is cake. I felt it wasn't really worth covering since it's more of a meta deck and we beat it either way.

Tokens is something I don't want to bother testing against, but on the other hand, I can see myself playing the deck and it has a ot of good cards for slowing us down.

Something else worth mentioning is that I'm interested in changing the creature base a bit and adding more lands to the deck. Really, just 1 keldon megalith though since that card is so good, I want to see it at least once over the course of a match reliably. As far as changing the creature base goes, Im interested in both Stormblood Berserker and Keldon Marauders. Marauders is more of a pet card that I'm interested in seeing how it plays and it's always worth 2 damage, but berserker is something I think would actually be good. It's just another solid source of repeatable damage being psudeo evasive and a mostly reliable 3/3.

Lastly, havent missed searing blaze at all. Bloods been worse in only a handful of scenarios that don't come up much. Again though, this is predicated on my assumption that zoo just isn't a good deck.

[Longtoe]

LP i have burn, RDW, and UR delver on modo if you ever want to test for free. just hit me up when I am on.

[Platypus]

@LP: What decklist are you testing?

[Khaospawn]

@LP: What decklist are you testing?

I think he's doing Heal's list with Searing Bloods over Blazes.

[LP, of the Fires]

Little More Info:

American Twin Matchup is Fine. They play a bunch of remands and don't have lightning helix which means they get stuck with a bunch of dead cards and can't really gain life. They don't have many snapcasters either which makes them resemble a bad twin deck against us most of the time. Wall of omens is decent against us, but they generally have to win with restos/bolts/snap beats as kiki-combo is not good enough against a deck predicated on red removal spells.

I'll probably get around to testing vs. Tron and Scapeshift, but not much else.

Big takeaway is that this deck is great in a twin/affinity heavy meta and splitting games against Pod might be fine if everyone's on a melira. If you're in a more grindy field and expect a lot of the control decks like Jund and UWR control, you should look elswhere as while the matchups aren't terrible, you'll find yourself rolling a bunch of dice. I'd also
wager it's probably a decent choice against an open field since the combination of agression+mana denial is good at just getting people and you're very good against most of the anti-aggro options since cards like anger of the gods and miscellaenous lifegain aren't that good against you.

[magicdownunder]

Would running 4x Pillar of Flame solve the issue with Pod (over 2x Folk Bolt and 2x Dragon Claw)?

[LP, of the Fires]

Most likely. You're not often getting the two for one with forked bolt that I'd be fine playing pillar in it's stead.

[LP, of the Fires]

It would hurt your affinity matchup slightly, but I don't THINK that's that big of a deal.

[LaZerBurn]

@ LP - many thanks for your work on the deck! Much appreciated

[Longtoe]

Forked bolt is the sex though. I have never been disappointed with that card. I would cut a rift bolt or two for pillar if we feel that it is that necessary.

[Valdarith]

I prefer Forked Bolt as a sideboard card here. I can't imagine this deck having issues with decks where Forked Bolt is good (Affinity being the main culprit), and maindecking Pillar would substantially increase percentages against Pod.

[Khaospawn]

Since Rift Bolt is a flex slot, why don't you just run the set of Pillars in its place? Just saying. If Melira Pod and Finks are an issue, this seems like a no brainer.

[hamfactorial]

I know it doesn't go to the face, but I've had a lot of success running Electrickery in BBBSG. It's a board wipe against most of the Affinity deck, and kills Viscera Seer and leftover Persist creatures/mana dorks in the Pod matchup. Also kills Spike Feeder with the trigger on the stack if they're trying to combo with Archangel of Thune.

Beats the balls off of Delver/Pyro, if that matchup needs any help.

[magicdownunder]

Since Rift Bolt is a flex slot, why don't you just run the set of Pillars in its place? Just saying. If Melira Pod and Finks are an issue, this seems like a no brainer.

This does make sense, unless we're missing something modern with 3 toughest that RDW needs to worry about . . . maybe the Ooze?

[Khaospawn]

MDU, you still got Searing Blaze and the almighty Bolt.

Pillar and Rift Bolt are both sorcery speed to boot. So just weigh out what you need more: killing 3 toughness or exiling problematic creatures. Don't forget about Mogg Fanatic and his ping effect. Deal 2 damage with pillar, sac Fanatic, profit.

[Khaospawn]

The beauty of this deck? So many interchangeable parts.

Not bragging, but a lot of this is familiar territory for me. I've rocked almost every iteration of RDW in Modern imaginable since pre-RTR. It really was missing one key element: the Eidolon. I've been saying it for over a year. Although to Heal's credit, a playset of Molten Rain is genius. I've always played the card as 2-of and for the life of me I don't know why I never thought of that. He did grind the shit out the deck playing PTQs, so there's that I guess.

[Toddington]

The beauty of this deck? So many interchangeable parts.

Not bragging, but a lot of this is familiar territory for me. I've rocked almost every iteration of RDW in Modern imaginable since pre-RTR. It really was missing one key element: the Eidolon. I've been saying it for over a year. Although to Heal's credit, a playset of Molten Rain is genius. I've always played the card as 2-of and for the life of me I don't know why I never thought of that. He did grind the shit out the deck playing PTQs, so there's that I guess.

What's the Khaospawn-approved list, like the list you would play tomorrow? Or at least, what's the core of your builds?

[Khaospawn]

The beauty of this deck? So many interchangeable parts.

Not bragging, but a lot of this is familiar territory for me. I've rocked almost every iteration of RDW in Modern imaginable since pre-RTR. It really was missing one key element: the Eidolon. I've been saying it for over a year. Although to Heal's credit, a playset of Molten Rain is genius. I've always played the card as 2-of and for the life of me I don't know why I never thought of that. He did grind the shit out the deck playing PTQs, so there's that I guess.

What's the Khaospawn-approved list, like the list you would
play tomorrow? Or at least, what's the core of your builds?

Honestly? I'd play Heal's exact list. Well, except for that Dragon's Claw. I'd play 2 Pillar of Flame in the board instead.

Things I've toyed around with:

*3/1 split on Grim Lavamncer and Figure of Destiny

*Running Searing Blood and Searing Blood together. I'd cut the Rift Bolts. Though I'd only do this if my paper meta shifted again into primarily Affinity, Merfolk, and Pod (which it seems to do every few months)

*3/1 split on Fanatic and Spikeshot Elder

Also, if you go back to the beginning of this thread, you'll see some weird shit I was trying out a year ago. Plus, I think there's a private brewery thread I dubbed Modern RDW All-Stars. Anything that would work, I'd try. At the time, the deck's worst enemy was Jund and, especially, Deathrite Shaman. There was an incredibly dark period where even playing Burn was a bad call, hence my need to venture into Red-based attacking
decks (which subsequently resulted in me championing Goblins for awhile). The power of the Shaman was that strong. I even advocated playing Goblin Arsonist due to its ability to attack into a DRS, which meant that if they blocked it, the shaman would die. Vexing Devil was terrible too since it basically functioned as a sorcery speed Shock. Once the shaman got the banhammer and Jund was neutered properly, I dived back into Burn as it still remains my best deck to play in any format. Still, I had all of these half built shells that remained of my RDW decks, so once I saw Heal's list I nearly shit a brick because I felt that I was hitting so close to the mark. Except that Heal figured it out while I went back to dicking around with Burn.




For loz, here's a blast from the past Sideboard plan I was working on....with Dragon's Claw!

Sideboard and Gorilla Logic:

1 Searing Blaze
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Pillar of Flame

These are your swaps for Lava Spike against creature decks like Deathrite Shaman decks, Pod, Affinity, Merfolk, Goblins, Soul Sisters, etc

3 Smash to Smithereens

This is what I swap Searing Blaze for against Tron. Blood Moon is worthless in this deck, so what I want to do is destroy their ramp artifacts while chopping at the life total. It's like a Searing Blaze, but for Expedition Maps and shit.

Against Affinity, I'll remove some Rift Bolts for Smashes in addition to the aforementioned creature-control package.

3 Combust

Again, Searing Blaze comes out against Control decks
and Twin. Whether I'm killing a Colonnadeor an Exarch, I'm happy. Combust is also useful against Merfolk and I'd probably just board these in instead of the Pillars. Maybe.

3 Faerie Macabre

Because Searing Blaze sucks against Past in Flames Storm, Living End, and Reanimator style decks.

2 Dragon's Claw

Honestly, I have 2 flex slots and since Mono Red is cheap, and because I can't keep my mouth shut about Red while playing locally, it seems like a quarter of my metagame is becoming more and more Red dominated. It does make a fine swap for the 2 maindeck Pillars against Storm, effectively hosing the deck, and against American anything. Though I am sill looking for better options.

But the craziest part of all? Heal's list is somewhat of an amalgamation of 2 'budget' decks, one made by Valdarith and one made by me. Heal's deck is far from budget when you consider fetches, Guides, and Devils, but anyways...

---

20/20/20 fetchless build for those just venturing out into the wilderness of Modern.

[deck]
Creatures (20)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Ash Zealot
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

Spells (20)
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Blood
4 Rift Bolt
3 Flame Javelin
2 Koth of the Hammer

Lands (20)
20 Mountain
[/deck]

I'll see your list, Val, and raise you this masterpiece:

[deck]Goblin Burn[/deck]

Aside from the Goblin Guides, it has to be about the cheapest deck you can possibly make.

[LP, of the Fires]

I've played heals list with a 3/1 split of lavamancer/figure of destiny and with 2 sideboard pillars over 2 dragon claws.

I'd be wary of cutting bolts for pillar since having a critical mass of 3 damage spells just wins so many games.

Anytime you need to kill a creature in modern, there's alsmost zero difference between 2 and 3 damage, so if you just want to kill stuff, go with the two damage spell.

[Khaospawn]

Check out the big brain on Kincey!

[Khaospawn]

Seriously, +1 on articulating what's taken me so many posts to say.

[Valdarith]

Anytime you need to kill a creature in modern, there's alsmost zero difference between 2 and 3 damage, so if you just want to kill stuff, go with the two damage spell.

In an established meta, yes. Locally YMMV. For instance, Gruul Zoo is pretty big in my area and it's nice to have more than four 3 damage spells for all the Kird Apes, Flinthoof Boars, etc that deck runs.

I like the 3/1 Lavaman/Figure split. I really like Figure as a one-of (or fun-of depending on how you look at it) in red creature decks like this. Really helps out late in the game.

[Khaospawn]

3/1 split on lavamancer and figure is boss. I'm glad I'm not alone in this.

[Valdarith]

The worst part is I have to convince myself not to shove in all four Figures in any red deck I build for Modern since I have a playset of the shiny FAL ones.

[Khaospawn]

The worst part is I have to convince myself not to shove in all four Figures in any red deck I build for Modern since I have a playset of the shiny FAL ones.

Tell me about it. Actually, I have exactly one pack foil Figure, so the 3/1 split is actually easy for me.

[hamfactorial]

4 FoD in every first draft I've made since starting in Modern.

[Pedros]

So anyone played with some sort of splash? Either Green for Destructive Revelery, Black for Rakdos Charm / Dismember?

What was the latest build LP? I might help you out on mtgo as I probably have most cards.

[Valdarith]

What exactly would those cards accomplish? You don't really care about enchantments and Bogles is already a bad matchup that Revelry will not solve. You already have maindeck hate for Storm and your Twin matchup is highly favored without a reactive card like Rakdos Charm. You don't need a splash to play Dismember so that's a wash.

[magicdownunder]

What exactly would those cards accomplish? You don't really care about enchantments and Bogles is already a bad matchup that Revelry will not solve. You already have maindeck hate for Storm and your Twin matchup is highly favored without a reactive card like Rakdos Charm. You don't need a splash to play Dismember so that's a wash.

You could run enchantment Sweepers which would beat boogies outright

That said I'm struggling too find room in my 75 with just artifacts and red anyways

[Pedros]

Isnt Leyline of Sanctity an issue for this kind of deck? It looks like beating with creatures early and finishing game with shrine / burn.

Just kill lifelink enchantment or Coronet (better to kill other enchantment in response ) vs boogles? Doesnt it turns the tide?

However Destructive Revelery would be mainly vs leyline, however also useful vs other matchups. Just an idea.

[magicdownunder]

Isnt Leyline of Sanctity an issue for this kind of deck? It looks like beating with creatures early and finishing game with shrine / burn.

@LP: Does this deck beat Leyline? Its a rather common card online so it warrant some thought.

[Valdarith]

I prefer more high impact cards like Back to Nature in my sideboard. Even if it makes Eidolon collateral, it pretty much beats Boggles singlehandedly while handling Leyline if that's a concern. If I'm going to splash a color, it needs to be for cards like that.

[Pedros]

Yup I understand, however look at burn sb - if they have effects like that, the preffer options that interract with opponents life. Thats why people are playing smash into smitherness, rakdos charm, destructive revelery, and not ancient grudge, back into nature or torpor orb.

[Valdarith]

Sure, but this isn't burn, and like I said, Revelry doesn't solve any problem this deck has with Bogles, so you're only running it as a reactive card to Leyline which is pretty bad. Smash to Smithereens is fine because you aren't splashing a color for the effect. If I'm splashing, I want an effect that flat out wins the game, and Revelry simply doesn't provide that effext.

[Pedros]

Why are you so against splashing? With 8 fetchlands you need only 1 stomping ground or 1 blood crypt in the deck.

[Valdarith]

I'm not against splashing. I'm saying that if I'm going to splash, the cards I'm splashing for ought to do a whole lot more than Destructive Revelry.

[Pedros]

I just asked if this deck has problem vs Leyline of Sanctity. If it has, then it is good sb option. Much better vs it than Back to Nature (hope I dont have to argue here?).

vs Boogles, maybe it is not as good as Back to Nature, however it still solves obvious problems - lifegain mantles and Daybreak Coronet (kills it or in response). Other stuff doesnt matter most of the time. It also kills Spellskite, a card they have in sb. And they are doing it while still progresing your own game plan.

Another thing is the fact, that Back to Nature kills your own Eidolon.

It doesnt matter how flashy a card is, just if it does what it has to do. If you have 2 similar cards, when 1 is slightly better (see ancient grudge, back to nature) and 1 that progres your own gameplan (Smash into Smitherness, Destructive Revelery), then you should play 2nd if you play agressive deck. I thought you read Zemanjaski's article about sideboarding
in red agressive decks.

And about the thing you said: :Sure, but it isnt burn:. I dont really understand arguing about it. Yes, it isnt burn, however it still has almost the same gameplan - kill them as fast as possible. Yes, this deck use stuff like burn to clear a way for your creatures most of the time, however it is still an agressive deck. Killing them fast with burn and killing them fast with creatures is still killing them fast. It is similar in zoo - you dont see back to nature or ancient grudge most of the time - you see smash into smitherness or destructive revelery. Why? Because while slightly worse, it progresses your game plan.