Tranquil Cove (Limited - Sealed and Draft)GP Limited Prep

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GP Limited Prep

Post #1 by Pedros » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:44 pm

Hello everyone, I hope I will get some of limited specialists to disscuss sealed deck creation. GP Warsaw is in 2 weeks, and MTGO release events starts after it so I wont have much ocasion to play this format. So I am looking for help here.

I will be using http://www.magicdrafting.com for generating sealed pools.

Here is a first one: http://www.magicdrafting.com/savedpools/1608

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Post #2 by Kaitscralt » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:47 pm

what you see is what you get
i bellowed, seeing her regret
at ever giving me a second blink
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #3 by Kaitscralt » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:55 pm

the pool you generated is awkward, but it's got four bounce spells, two Hammer's and a UR god, so that's the deck I would force, wih 17 land and a Unicorn. No 3rd color.
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #4 by Kaitscralt » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:58 pm

you want to be white, green or blue in this format, unless you open a nuts Grey Merchant pool

Red pairs well with everything but has the most of the worst Bestow creatures, you really don't want a primarily red creature base
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Post #5 by Pedros » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:02 pm

Question to other. Do you see cards I opened or is it totaly random / you dont see it.

So I opened Keranos, Master of Waves, Hypnotic Siren, Polymorphous Rush (how good is it?), Thoutseize, Eater of a Hopes and Fated Return. While I have rares spread in basicly 2 colors, I dont like black ones in sealed that much as they are overpriced. Black isnt great also (1 solid removal and 1 eye gouge).

Green isnt awsome, good cards are only: Nessian Game Warden, Mortal's Resolve, Nessian Courser, Ravenous Leucrocota, Satyr Groovedancer, Shreddint Winds and Staunch Heated Warrior, and some of them arent really great either.

White isnt deep enought.

I would try to build RU to make use of my 2 rares and 2 mythics in those colors. In addition I have quite a lot of creaters (18 creatures spread quite nicely), removal (Eternity Snare, Annul, 2 Hubris, 2 Retraction Helix, 2 Fall of the Hammer, Spark Jolt) and only 1 combat trick (
Titan's Strenght).

Gorgon's Head and Oppaline Unicorn also might be an option.

Thoughts?
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Post #6 by Pedros » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:07 pm

Kaitscralt » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:55 pm wrote:the pool you generated is awkward, but it's got four bounce spells, two Hammer's and a UR god, so that's the deck I would force, wih 17 land and a Unicorn. No 3rd color.


You have to work with what you open. UR is an only option right?

Thoughts on Gluttonous Cyclops and Cyclops of Eternal Fury as a curve finisher?
How good is Eternity Snare?
Worth playin MD Annul?
Worth playing Polymorphous Rush? I dont have extraordinary cretures to copy, but it can target any creature, also works as combat trick.
There is quite a lot of 4 drops available. Which of 5 playable creatures are best?
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Post #7 by Kaitscralt » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:16 pm

GW: very good with a fast enough deck and bomby enough bombs. lacking removal
BW: strong Heroic potential or control potential, but white is lacking high end power creatures and black low curve goodies.
UG: best combo? good for tempo, control or Heroic. play when able, needs blue bounce and tap.
RG: worst combo? slow and one-dimensional. try to avoid unless you open Xenagos/god or the nuts.
UB: underwhelming control option unless you open the right pieces. play when able. UB can't rely on bounce, needs removal.
UW: Heroic deck or skies tempo, better in draft than sealed but playable with enough good low cost creatures and ways to target
RB: Very strong deck when overloaded with removal and burn and bomby black creatures.
RW: if you open the right Heroic pool, 10/10, you can't lose. A subpar pool full of bad red creatures won't work as well.
UR: fine in Sealed, not in draft. This can be very good or very bad. I like
it.
BG: powerful combination, greens ramp plays well with blacks costly removal and good five drops

don't force white Heroic unless you have everything your deck needs

play blue when you can

don't get too greedy with a third color splash

remember the limited golden rules: removal and evasion

play your deepest colors with the best cards, duh
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Post #8 by Kaitscralt » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:17 pm

I don't have time to dissect those questions about the UR pool right now, on my way to work
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #9 by imopen2 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:27 pm

Pedros » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:07 pm wrote:
Kaitscralt » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:55 pm wrote:the pool you generated is awkward, but it's got four bounce spells, two Hammer's and a UR god, so that's the deck I would force, wih 17 land and a Unicorn. No 3rd color.


You have to work with what you open. UR is an only option right?

Thoughts on Gluttonous Cyclops and Cyclops of Eternal Fury as a curve finisher?
How good is Eternity Snare?
Worth playin MD Annul?
Worth playing Polymorphous Rush? I dont have extraordinary cretures to copy, but it can target any creature, also works as combat trick.
There is quite a lot of 4 drops available. Which of 5 playable creatures are best?[/
quote]


I think kait is right that you would have to go UR with that pool. UB is another option but it is probably the worst color combination in THS+BNG and i think the UR is better here.

I cut down to 25 cards before I started to have some trouble and I don't have time to finish right now, but I will give short answers to your questions.

I don't think your deck needs those curve toppers since you have a couple monsterous/bestow guys to use plus the god. (i cut them)

eternity snare is quite good in sealed, it was still there at 25 but it was a consideration to be cut since the deck i was building was pretty aggressive and hopefully their creatures won't be tapped.

annul is a 22nd or 23rd card in a bad pool. sb card in this pool

having never played with JiN i will guess that the rush is quite good and makes good use of the many 2 drop 2/1s you'll have sitting around late game to turn into flyers or death touch guys or something.

i had all 5 in at 26 cards and then cut the
hippo since you don't have a ton of good guys to use the trick with.
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Post #10 by Pedros » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:54 pm

imopen2 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:27 pm wrote:
Pedros » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:07 pm wrote:
Kaitscralt » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:55 pm wrote:the pool you generated is awkward, but it's got four bounce spells, two Hammer's and a UR god, so that's the deck I would force, wih 17 land and a Unicorn. No 3rd color.


You have to work with what you open. UR is an only option right?

Thoughts on Gluttonous Cyclops and Cyclops of Eternal Fury as a curve finisher?
How good is Eternity Snare?
Worth playin MD Annul?
Worth playing Polymorphous Rush? I dont have extraordinary
cretures to copy, but it can target any creature, also works as combat trick.
There is quite a lot of 4 drops available. Which of 5 playable creatures are best?



I think kait is right that you would have to go UR with that pool. UB is another option but it is probably the worst color combination in THS+BNG and i think the UR is better here.

I cut down to 25 cards before I started to have some trouble and I don't have time to finish right now, but I will give short answers to your questions.

I don't think your deck needs those curve toppers since you have a couple monsterous/bestow guys to use plus the god. (i cut them)

eternity snare is quite good in sealed, it was still there at 25 but it was a consideration to be cut since the deck i was building was pretty aggressive and hopefully their creatures won't be tapped.

annul is a 22nd or 23rd card in a bad pool. sb card in this pool

having never played with JiN i will guess that the rush is quite good and makes good use
of the many 2 drop 2/1s you'll have sitting around late game to turn into flyers or death touch guys or something.

i had all 5 in at 26 cards and then cut the hippo since you don't have a ton of good guys to use the trick with.


Thanks for answers, I also had 26 cards after trimming. I didnt consider cutting hipocamp as it might be useful with double retraction helix to bounce 2 creatures.

Yeah I started it as a tempo deck (5 2 drops) with bounce.

Rush with so many cheap creatures might be awsome to push last damage or uptrade.
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Post #11 by imopen2 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:41 pm

Yea, basically that's how I envision rush being used in that deck. 5 mana to push in an extra 6 damage is pretty solid, and the versatility is off the charts.

I really struggled with cutting the hippo, but you need to cut a 4 drop and I don't think there's any question that he is the worst one in general. With two retraction helix he is definitely better...but I don't know if waiting with 5 mana up is what this deck wants to do. It's also somewhat of a corner case since you will often not draw the hippo with a helix and you may be forced to use the helix ere you get to turn 5 (to tempo a blocker or stop an aura)
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Post #12 by Pedros » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:27 pm

Ehat are you huys thinking about 5/5 for 5 that can attack only if opponent control island?
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Post #13 by imopen2 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:34 pm

I like him a lot. Probably 30% of your opponents will be playing blue, he is a solid blocker to slow down aggressive strategies, and he finishes out the game late. I don't think he would get cut, but it's harder to judge without having the curve laid out in front of me
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Post #14 by imopen2 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:34 pm

He also has 2 blue pips for master
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Post #15 by Kaitscralt » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:42 pm

almost always play that card

and remember to swing him into nylea's presence
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Post #16 by imopen2 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:54 pm

The last cut (I cut the snare) should probably be a spell since you are low on creatures after the cuts. I'll figure this out yet
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Post #17 by imopen2 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:03 pm

I honestly think it could be a fall of the hammer that should be cut... Most of your creatures are small and the titan's fall is going to help you alpha strike for the last few points.
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Post #18 by imopen2 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:10 pm

Am I crazy? I'm cutting the best red common in BNG for a 2/3 for 3...
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Post #19 by Kaitscralt » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:14 pm

probably
Lord_Mcdonalds » Yesterday, 3:13 pm wrote: Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

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Post #20 by Kaitscralt » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:18 pm

I'd play the 2/3 but still want both Hammers
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Post #21 by Kaitscralt » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:19 pm

Regardless that pool is solved, we should discuss another one since I'm not doing any paper pre releases this weekend, this will be my fill
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Post #22 by imopen2 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:22 pm

Yea, I enjoy building pools. I'm still not sure what the last cut should be in that one but I'd prob just do the hammer and be done
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Post #23 by Kaitscralt » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:24 pm

don't play gorgon's head, by the way. not unless you're really desperate
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Post #24 by Kaitscralt » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:25 pm

I don't know what you made so I can't say what to cut
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Post #25 by imopen2 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:35 pm

Master
Siren
Sealock
Fortune hunter
Cloaked siren
Hypnotist
Vaporkin
Bladetusk
Ill tempered
2x Reveler
Skink
Spear point
Unicorn
Kerenos
2x fall of the hammer
2x hubris
2x helix
Poly rush
Titan's strength

That's the 24 I got down to. The deck could almost run 16 lands but I think it's better to just cut a hammer since you're usually only going to do it for 2 and a 2 mana shock that can be disrupted is not that great, even if it triggers heroic (there's only 1 heroic creature anyways)
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Post #26 by imopen2 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:36 pm

Forgot the pensive 2/3
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Post #27 by Pedros » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:39 pm

Ok as this pool seems discussed quite heavily lets get ready for another one. Thanks for your effort!!!

http://www.magicdrafting.com/savedpools/1622

This pool is quite hard to evaluate, and I can see it is possible to build 2 deck quite easily with it.

Lets first talk about colors:

White: Godsend is quite a bomb, we have 7 playable creatures with 3 terrors and enchantment removal + Double strike trick.

Blue: not deep enough

Black: here we are cooking with gasoline. 2 Solid rares (Giant and Fate Unravel), 16 creatures (counting Squelching Leeches as we might be solid black deck, Marshmist Titan as we have quite a lot of black mermanents). Not sure about those Returned Revelers (1/3 for 2 that mills both players). Quite a lot of removal (drown in sorrow, keepsake gorgon, disciple of phenax, viper's kiss (in Journey we have even more 1 toughness creatures), 2 weight of
the underworld). Dont know if Aspect of Gorgon is playable so I left it in sb.

Green: 9 playable cards.

Red: Solid cards overall. 6 Removal spells spread on cmc, 2 combat tricks (I love rise to the chalenge), 6-7 solid creatures spread quite well on curve.

Fixing: RB Temple.

Verdicts:

IMO Black has the best cards, it is quite possible to build mono black (it wont be good but passable). I think secondary color should be either White or Red. Red is deeper color so I would say red is better.

Opinions?
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Post #28 by imopen2 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:47 pm

Rather strong looking pool at first glance. Black is uncommonly deep. I don't have time to build anything at the moment but I think it will probably have black in it and either red or green paired...the white is also pretty solid. Hard to evaluate on my phone
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Post #29 by imopen2 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:52 pm

It's unfortunate that the red burn you have are bolts rather than strikes or else I would go BGr...a lot of your black is controlling so white pair makes sense so you can dig to your godsend. You would have some trouble with flyers tho
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Post #30 by imopen2 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:32 am

in the end I settled on a grindy BW deck. RG is decent but it's low on creatures.
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Post #31 by Pedros » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:39 am

is BW stronger than BR?
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Post #32 by imopen2 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:39 pm

I think so. Mainly because the creatures in the BR would be worse than WB, but also your black cards are controlling and your red is more Aggro. The supply cranes might be the best white common I'm the set, and godsend is a perfect bomb to make your 1/Xs into beaters late
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Post #33 by Pedros » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:38 pm

Seems legit, I was just overlooking constelation triggers too much (with both -1/-1 and ping creatures). Still fair amount of removal.

Cards to consider. 35 total (16 basic lands + temple of RB)

Red - almost not playing
Green - playing for sure
Orange - dont know

1s:
Loyal Pegasus
Lagona-Band Traiblazer

For sure not plying Loyal Pegasus, Band Traiblazer might be a sb slot for more agressive decks.

2s:
Oreskos Sun Guide
Leonin Snarecaster
2 Returned Phalanx
2 Returned Reveler

Somewhere I read you must play around 4 to 6 2 drops even as grindy deck. Imo Oreskos is the best, dunno about Returned Phalanx - they are also great but cant attack. Snarecaster and
Revelers are the worst out of the other. WIth 2 phalanx I think deck should have 1 island somewhere.

3s:
Elite Skirmisher
Harvestguard Alseids - triggers constelation, allows for safe attacks
Blood-Toil Harpy
2 Grim Guardian

Overall am quite happy about this slot.

4s:
Fate Unravel
Squelching Leeches - how do you feel about this card?
Disciple of Phenax
Returned Centaur - imo dont needed as no grave synergy

5s:
Silen Artistan
Supply-Line Cranes
Doomwake Giant
Keepsake Gorgon

Dreadbringer Lampads
[
color=#00BF00]Gray Merchant of Asphodel[/color]

Slot 5 is quite big, imo Giant is quite good with amount of enchantment we have. Lampads is the worst from those, however still solid imo (however worse than merchant)

6+:
Marshmist Titan - we have quite a lot black devotion, however cant be cast before turn 4 makes it quite bad.

Removal:
Viper's Kiss
Ray of Dissolution
Drown in Sorrow
Divine Verdict
2 Excoriate
2 Weight of the Underworld


Tricks & Pumps:
Godsend
Phlanx Formation - imo not needed in this type of deck
Aspect of Gorgon - should be good as have synergy with constelation plus makes my 1/X blockers quite big walls that arent easily killed, however doesnt draw a card.
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Post #34 by imopen2 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:14 pm

This is what I settled on:

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+9 Swamps
+7 Plains

I think that's right...
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Post #35 by Pedros » Wed May 07, 2014 10:18 am

Any tips for yourney sealed/draft format from our limited masters? I know it is not yet on mtgo, however you might played it in real life this time ;)

Still bant color combos is the best in draft? Cant talk about sealed at it depends of what you open.

Also what are your thoughts on first pics multicolored carda? Worth taking good god or ajani or just always avoid pushing yourself i to 2 color combo?
Also what kind of cards you take over banishing light? Really good bomb?
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Post #36 by imopen2 » Thu May 08, 2014 2:14 pm

I haven't played any JiN yet but it seems like white is still really strong.

Re: multicolor first picks. I try not to take multicolor first picks in order to stay flexible, but if its a bomb like Ajani (or xenegod in BNG) I will take it and try to snag a couple mana fixers late to splash it if things dont go well. it especially helps if it is part green and a late drop. Now if there were an ornitharch and a xenegod I would prob go with the flexible option
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Post #37 by LP, of the Fires » Thu May 08, 2014 10:36 pm

I've done 2 drafts and the decks that most consistently did well where RW heroic and GR midrange. Red remains a good support color, white is very deep, green is simply a solid color, though personally, I think it's much less good in draft then in sealed where just having big dudes is so much more relevant.

Also, I'm I the only one that tends to err on the side of 18 lands, be on the draw?
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Post #38 by imopen2 » Tue May 13, 2014 3:27 pm

This format is very fast (although jou may have slowed it down a tad, haven't played enough yet to know for sure), you shouldn't need 18 lands (unless your deck is amazing and can afford to be conservative with its mana) and you definitely don't want to be on the draw. I try not to have more than 2-3 cards that cost more than 4 mana since I want to be bestowing and having mana up for tricks in the late game.
Kijin Zabuza: My pokemon cards bring the boys to the yard
Kijin Zabuza: And they're like, "Oh **** he has cards"
TwinBGenerationX: damn right
TwinBGenerationX: I wanna trade cards I could trade you, BUT NOT MY CHARIZARD!


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