[Deck] Burn

[Khaospawn]

I'm high on PCP.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Are you a wizard?

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'm all jacked up on mountain dew!

[Khaospawn]

If I wanted to raise pussies, I would've named my kids Doctor Quinn and Medicine Woman!

[Mcdonalds]

I believe the word was Wussies but I could be wrong

[hamfactorial]

Don't worry Platypus, I have made a career out of not doing what Ham asks of me.

The Unhinged Mountains were one thing, but this has gone too far!

[BlakLanner]

God damn, all your posts are sucking so bad, you caused the server to implode.

[hamfactorial]

Oh noes!

[Khaospawn]

The server was just jealous of my Super Saiyan Swagger

[Mcdonalds]

Remind me of that shitty song one more time and I will reign fire and brimstone on your house and a pox on your family

[Khaospawn]

I don't know what this song is that you speak of, LM, but I'm now convinced that both you and the server are now jealous of my Super Saiyan Swagger.

[Longtoe]

no eidolon as a storm hoser?

[Valdarith]

Go back two pages.

[BlakLanner]

One of the feature matches this weekend is a prime example of why we don't splash other colors, even for cards as powerful as Deathrite Shaman. The burn player was Wastelanded and had issues with Price of Progress due to the BR and RG lands he played. He gave it a reasonable go even with all that but probably would have comfortably won if they were all just Mountains.

[BlakLanner]

Preliminary testing with Eidolon of the Great Revel maindeck has been fairly positive. I won several games that I shouldn't have simply due to its ability to turn sideways, this includes 4 games through Leyline of Sanctity. I will run it through a few dailies this week to test further.

Side note - I have seen quite a few more Leylines in people's sideboards. This includes several from Reanimator players. If this trend continues, our graveyard hate will need to shift from [card]Tormod's Crypt[/card] to Leyline of the Void or Faerie Macabre since we lose the ability to target their graveyard.

[Khaospawn]

I played in a little Legacy tournament Saturday with this:

[deck]
Creature 12
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

Burn 28
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blaze

Land 20
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
10 Mountain

Sideboard 15
4 Flame Rift
2 Searing Blood
3 Shattering Spree
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Faerie Macabre
[/deck]

My metagame is actually a nightmare for Burn. These were the decks present: OmniTell, Sneak and Show, Oops All Spells!, Affinity, Death and Taxes, TES, and Esper Stoneblade.

That's some scary shit! The only decks I wanted to play against were Death and Taxes, Affinity, and Stoneblade!

As luck would have it, I got paired against my buddy playing TES and we drew in
Round 1, cuz fuck driving to Tampa just to play my friend in Round 1 and plus we were starving for some Thai food next door. I beat Affinity in Round 2 easily enough because Eidolon + Shattering Spree + 6 Searing effects = GG. Stoneblade in Round 3 was practically a bye when Price of Progress is nailing your opponent for 6 and 8 damage. I lost in Round 4 to Death and Taxes when I get stuck on 2 land and got Port locked out of being able to dump my hand full of Flame Rifts. In Game 2, I draw every single Fireblast while, again, stuck on 2 land. He equips a Jitte to a Serra Avenger and I die on the inside as well on the outside.

I got lucky to play against all of the fair decks, but I'm kind of stuck on where to go next. For starters, I need Bridge in the board if I'm going to encounter Show and Tell decks. I'
m honestly still in love with this list that I took from P-Sulli awhile back (with my own sideboard tweaks):

[deck]
Creature 8
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer

Burn 28
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
4 Flame Rift

Enchantment 3
3 Sulfuric Vortex

Land 21
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scalding Tarn
9 Mountain

Sideboard 15
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Searing Blaze
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Shattering Spree
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ashen Rider
[/deck]

I hate trying to figure out Legacy metagames...

[BlakLanner]

It can be rough when you get that incidental splash damage or variance. I highly advise against having Flame Rift and Eidolon in your deck at the same time as 6 damage is just too much to safely take in most fights. You definitely need Sulfuric Vortex somewhere in your 75 to fight against Batterskull and Jitte. You have no need for Pyrostatic Pillar if you have Eidolon, 7 of such effects is simply overkill. You might want to consider Pyroblast/REB in your sideboard if Omnitell is the weapon of choice. Knocking out their Omniscience is a game-ender for them.

This is my current loadout:
[deck]Burn[/deck]

You can cut the Devils and Marauders for your Lavamancers (you probably don't need 4) and Searing effects. If Omnitell and All Spells is that common, cut the Mindbreak Traps for Pyroblast/REB. Manabase is up to you since you run fetches/Lavamancer.

[Khaospawn]

It can be rough when you get that incidental splash damage or variance. I highly advise against having Flame Rift and Eidolon in your deck at the same time as 6 damage is just too much to safely take in most fights. You definitely need Sulfuric Vortex somewhere in your 75 to fight against Batterskull and Jitte. You have no need for Pyrostatic Pillar if you have Eidolon, 7 of such effects is simply overkill. You might want to consider Pyroblast/REB in your sideboard if Omnitell is the weapon of choice. Knocking out their Omniscience is a game-ender for them.

This is my current loadout:
[deck]Burn[/deck]

You can cut the Devils and Marauders for your Lavamancers (you probably don't need 4) and Searing effects. If Omnitell and All Spells is that common, cut the Mindbreak Traps for Pyroblast/REB. Manabase is up to you since you run fetches/Lavamancer.

The second list that I posted is where I'm at now. I liked Eidolon in the main, but I also felt that he was 'win-more' in some of the Game 1's I played. Also, fetches + Lavamancer 4lyfe!

The reason why I played Pillar and Eidolon together was because I wanted the overkill. My TES buddy and I played a ton of games beforehand and he always knew what to go for when he played Cabal Therapy. The Pillars kept him from guessing correctly and I pretty much always had a Pyrostatic effect to drop on turn 2. Mindbreak Trap was pointless
sometimes because he would play Silence and it was a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' thing because you either counter the Silence and die or you get Silenced and die. I was also told to expect some other crazy combo decks, so the Pillars made sense.

But I digress. The second list I posted is what I've been playing for a long time and I'm very comfortable with it. That goes a long way with me.

I like your sideboard. It's very similiar to what I'm running: 3 Searing effects, 3 Storm disruptor (I use Eidolon and you use Mindbreak Trap), 3 artifact hate, 3 Show n Tell hate (I do a 2/1 split on Bridge and Ashen Rider), and 3 graveyard hate. I'm curious as to why you want Tormod's Crypt over Faerie Macabre. Both have their strengths. I prefer the Faerie because I can play it when I'm on the draw and haven't had a turn yet.

[BlakLanner]

Meta calls are what they are. I can understand your decision on all the Pillar effects. I like your second list more than the first since it has ways to better fight the lifegain that is a real pain in our ass. I do prefer Eidolon main as it gives me extra game against decks we are somewhat weaker to like Elves but want something that can block or I can kill off if the race gets too tight.

I play Crypt over Macabre because I sometimes bring in Crypt to fight things like Goyf and Mongoose. I also like wiping out the entire graveyard instead of a few cards whenever possible. It does make me weaker to Leyline of Sanctity though as it targets. Turn 1 kills with Dredge/Reanimator are rare enough that I am willing to take the risk.

I play fetchless because Stifle is a big thing here. My lower land count means I may not see another land if I lose one to a Stifle. Certainly just a preference/meta call as I do lose out
on Searing Blaze and Lavamancer by making this choice. I do keep bouncing between Mindbreak Trap and Pyroblast in my last sideboard slot. So hard to decide.

[Valdarith]

I wish people played Legacy in my area.

But if I were to attend a Legacy tournament in the near future, I'd run this:

[deck]
Creatures (18)
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Ash Zealot
3 Hellspark Elemental

Spells (22)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Searing Blaze
4 Price of Progress
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

Lands (20)
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
2 Bloodstained Mire
10 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Vexing Shusher
4 Searing Blood
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sulfuric Vortex
[/deck]

It's a lot more like RDW than Burn, but I honestly think that's the direction the deck ought to start taking. I think maindeck Eidolon is a hell of a card to have against Storm, Elves, and Delver and all of those combined are a sizable portion of the meta.
One consequence of the 60 is that it's much weaker to Sneak/Show in game one but that's not a good game one for Burn either so it's kind of a wash.

[BlakLanner]

I am really not a fan of Hellspark in a format full of Deathrite Shamans itching to gain life off of it. Ash Zealot is too easily rendered harmless and will likely not do enough damage to justify the mana/card.

[Khaospawn]

Meta calls are what they are. I can understand your decision on all the Pillar effects. I like your second list more than the first since it has ways to better fight the lifegain that is a real pain in our ass. I do prefer Eidolon main as it gives me extra game against decks we are somewhat weaker to like Elves but want something that can block or I can kill off if the race gets too tight.

I play Crypt over Macabre because I sometimes bring in Crypt to fight things like Goyf and Mongoose. I also like wiping out the entire graveyard instead of a few cards whenever possible. It does make me weaker to Leyline of Sanctity though as it targets. Turn 1 kills with Dredge/Reanimator are rare enough that I am willing to take the risk.

I play fetchless because
Stifle is a big thing here. My lower land count means I may not see another land if I lose one to a Stifle. Certainly just a preference/meta call as I do lose out on Searing Blaze and Lavamancer by making this choice. I do keep bouncing between Mindbreak Trap and Pyroblast in my last sideboard slot. So hard to decide.

Great points, Blaklanner. I think that if you're already maindecking Eidolon, you've already got an edge over decks like TES and Elves, provided TES doesn't go off turn 1, so I think the Pyroblast would be a great choice. Since you're missing out on Searing Blaze, the Pyroblasts would function as Terrors against decks like Merfolk, as well as (like you said) being able to blow up Omniscience and counter Stifle. Another option could be Vexing Shusher, as Miracles is picking up steam again (both online and in paper).

But, like you said, it's really all a metagame call. You know your area better than I do.

I wish people played Legacy in my area.

But if I were to attend a Legacy tournament in the near future, I'd run this:

[deck]
Creatures (18)
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Ash Zealot
3 Hellspark Elemental

Spells (22)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Searing Blaze
4 Price of Progress
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

Lands (20)
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
2 Bloodstained Mire
10 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Vexing Shusher
4 Searing Blood
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sulfuric Vortex
[/deck]

It's a lot more like RDW than Burn, but I honestly think that's the direction the deck ought to start taking. I think maindeck Eidolon is a hell of
a card to have against Storm, Elves, and Delver and all of those combined are a sizable portion of the meta. One consequence of the 60 is that it's much weaker to Sneak/Show in game one but that's not a good game one for Burn either so it's kind of a wash.

I think you're missing out on not playing Rift Bolt and Lava Spike, but you're absolutely right about Eidolon.

I know how you feel about wanting to find some Legacy tournaments. I have to travel 30-40 minutes into Tampa to play Legacy on Saturday if I really want to play. It's also the same for Modern - I can play on Mondays if I want to make a 25-30 minute drive down to St. Pete. Lately the crowds have been getting smaller for both formats, but the tournaments always fire with at least 8. As of now, I'd say only the hardcore players are left, which sometimes isn't a bad thing considering that the hardcore players have higher skill levels and tier 1 decks.

[Khaospawn]

I am really not a fan of Hellspark in a format full of Deathrite Shamans itching to gain life off of it. Ash Zealot is too easily rendered harmless and will likely not do enough damage to justify the mana/card.

Indeed!

[Valdarith]

You're probably right about Hellspark and Lava Spike. There's a tension between running enough creatures to stress opposing removal spells and running too few creatures but still making their removal relevant. I really like Ash Zealot though. It lines up favorably against all the fair decks and is only subpar vs Reanimator and Sneak Show. Goyf can't block it in this deck without getting potentially blown out by Searing Blaze or Blood postboard.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I've found hellspark to be really good. You generally don't want to let DRS live anyway.

[Khaospawn]

I dunno man. Hellspark turns on your opponent's removal spells. Our best matchups are the decks like Delver decks and Death and Taxes - essentially fair decks. Now that Swords to Plowshares has a better target than the Goblin Guide that already got in for some damage. And then there's DRS, which was already mentioned....


I'm not saying he's bad, but there are stronger cards with less drawback.

[Valdarith]

I dunno man. Hellspark turns on your opponent's removal spells. Our best matchups are the decks like Delver decks and Death and Taxes - essentially fair decks. Now that Swords to Plowshares has a better target than the Goblin Guide that already got in for some damage. And then there's DRS, which was already mentioned....


I'm not saying he's bad, but there are stronger cards with less drawback.

This is a difficult discussion because all of our opponent's removal spells are on by virtue of running Goblin Guide and Grim Lavamancer. Not a lot of Legacy decks run more than 6-8 removal spells so I like the idea of increasing the creature count to stress removal while presenting a clock on the field rather than in the hand.

I like that
Hellspark Elemental essentially gives you an extra card in most matchups. I don't like that it gets eaten by DRS (though as Dolt said that card is usually killed on sight), makes Swords to Plowshares REALLY good, and slows the clock down a bit. Perhaps it should actually be Flame Rift and 15-16 creatures is the sweet spot. I do like Eidolon though even if you're trying to run fewer creatures because even if it's removed it still gets in at least two damage, and it will get in a LOT more if it isn't removed.

[deck]
Creatures (12)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

Spells (28)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Searing Blaze
4 Flame Rift
3 Price of Progress
1 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

Lands (20)
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
2 Bloodstained Mire
10 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
1 Price of Progress
3 Vexing Shusher
4 Searing Blood
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sulfuric Vortex
[/deck]

[Khaospawn]

Val, I love that list, but it needs Rift Bolt. You may be able to move Blaze or Rift to the board to make room for it. The deck needs 16 "Lightning Bolts. "

[Valdarith]

I think swapping Flame Rift for Rift Bolt is fine. Having Eidolon in the deck helps ease the absence of Flame Rift here.

[Khaospawn]

I actually prefer Searing Blaze in the main when playing Eidolon since it helps ensure he'll connect for some damage.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Really not a fan or Flame Rift + Eidolon, whereas I am a fan of Eidolon + Hellspark. Maybe just personal preference.

[Khaospawn]

Who cares about taking 6 when they're dead!?

[LP, of the Fires]

Who cares about taking 6 when they're dead!?

All of my yes; with the corollary that I don't play as much legacy as I used to.

[Khaospawn]

Burn isn't for pussies.

[Lightning_Dolt]

guess I'm a pussy.

[Khaospawn]

guess I'm a pussy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0mQ9MxrBA4

[Khaospawn]

I liked this article. It's a little dated, but it's solid and still mostly relevant.

http://legitmtg.com/competitive/priemer ... -and-burn/

[Valdarith]

Didn't someone else just post this somewhere? Seems familiar. I like the article though.

What's interesting is he brings up needing Pyroblast in the sideboard, but PSully tends to leave them out in favor of more proactive cards. I'm not sure which is correct but I lean toward proactive cards in aggressive decks like this.

[BlakLanner]

Pyroblast is a good answer to Jace, True Name Nemesis, Merfolk and counterspells. I side with PSully on leaving it out because I am not particularly afraid of any of those. Every answer like that we side in is a burn spell we had to cut. Can't dilute our deck too much or we draw nothing but answers and no action.

[Khaospawn]

PSully's played REB in the past.

I found this article last Saturday night/Sunday morning while digging up as much info as I could on sideboarding for Legacy Burn. Also found a lot of weird stuff from about 2 years ago. Like, did you know that Patrick Sullivan made an all spells U/R Burn deck with Brainstorms and shit and was all like,"THIS IS THE BEST DECK EVER!" ?