[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Christen]

I'm still convinced that it's a good card against midrange, and until I stop winning with the card, I'll keep using it.

[Alex]

I like how the deck worked despite the lack of direct burn. My opponents always get surprised that the list runs Restoration Angels. I didn't get to use Aurelia's Fury too much, so it's possible that there might be some better cards in that slot. I ran Blind Obedience on the sideboard and used it twice (once against R/x aggro and Kessig Bant). It really does some work specially against midrange.

I stopped playing [card]Aurelia's Fury[/card] after the GP, I decided to add another Midnight Haunting and a miser [
card]Krenko's Command[/card]. I actually think I might be replacing Ash Zealots with [card]Krenko's Command[/card], it makes the mana way less awkward.

I don't think Blind Obedience is a good card, even against blitz decks. You already win those matchups with Faithmenders.

I'm not sure if I want to cut on Ash Zealot right now, but if I have to play Krenko's Command, I would maindeck a couple of Rally the Peasants. I wanted to try BO against aggro, so I sided it in one one match, and I probably won't in my next games.

Ash Zealot hasn't been incredibly relevant to me. You're playing a midrange deck, having a haste guy on turn 2 isn't that important, and the first strike is often not relevant in topdeck mode. I play Nearheath Pilgrim on turn 2 more often than I do Ash Zealot, even when I'm not playing around the awkwardness
of the mana, simply because I'd rather be hooking up said Nearheath to a Reckoner on the following turn.

I don't like Rally, I would play Dynacharge if I was going to play some kind of trick. It's easier to play with. You shouldn't need to flash back your Trumpet Blast, if you're casting it, it should really be winning you the game. Dynarcharge is just a tad more versatile.

I don't play Blind Obedience because I don't lose to midrange decks. You have so many tools to beat them already, I don't know why you would need more.

[zemanjaski]

Rally is definitely more of a card in token decks I think.

[Alex]

It isn't really a token deck, I just think Krenko's Command is better against Blitz than Ash Zealot. Being able to block two guys instead of one is important.

[photodyer]

Blind Obedience sucks.

Absolutely. The extort triggers on it were more useful than its tapping ability.

I guess redthirst and I just flat suck...we've both been wrecked by the stupid card. UWr lists getting it out on turn 2...play a 1-drop and swing, get it charmed back onto your library. Play Zealot tapped, Pillar with Extort. Play Knight--Izzet Charm, gone--with Extort. And so on, and so on, with Snaps rebuying cheap removal if you can't hit Rakdos Charm, until they hit SR and keep pinging you for a few points at at time which you can't
recoup. Or hit an ultimate with Tamiyo and keep replaying Spear or Aurelia's Fury until we die. In a control deck with proper removal tuned for creature control, BlOb pulls the damn rug out from under Dos Rakis, period. It kills haste damage--which is the meat and potatoes of the deck--and gives the other guy the opportunity to blank our threats (assuming he has the sense to run removal, which windstrider's opponent did not. Other people there, however, do not lack the competence to use the card as it was intended). If you don't get to swing, you cannot fucking win.

But again, maybe it's just me...

[zemanjaski]

Only in one of those examples was Blind Obedience actually relevant, even then it's a card to gain a token amount of life. You're not going to play a card just so you can play all your other spells off curve. It sounds like you can't beat Azorius Charm, Pillar and Snapcaster; not Obedience. It isn't a win condition and it isn't removal. The other cards in the deck are what are beating you.

As far as I can tell, the card sees virtually no play outside of FNM.

[windstrider]

Blind Obedience sucks.

Absolutely. The extort triggers on it were more useful than its tapping ability.

I guess redthirst and I just flat suck...we've both been wrecked by the stupid card. UWr lists getting it out on turn 2...play a 1-drop and swing, get it charmed back onto your library. Play Zealot tapped, Pillar with Extort. Play Knight--Izzet Charm, gone--with Extort.
And so on, and so on, until they hit SR and keep pinging you for a few points at at time which you can't recoup. Or hit an ultimate with Tamiyo and keep replaying Spear or Aurelia's Fury until we die. In a control deck with proper removal tuned for creature control, BlOb pulls the damn rug out from under Dos Rakis, period. It kills haste damage--which is the meat and potatoes of the deck--and gives the other guy the opportunity to blank our threats (assuming he has the sense to run removal, which windstrider's opponent did not. Other people there, however, do not lack the competence to use the card as it was intended). If you don't get to swing, you cannot fucking win.

I think that's the key part. A lot of the control decks around us are tuned for creature removal and damage negation. They do what that UB Tempo list does: grind out incremental advantages until they can overwhelm the opponent. None of my losses came about because
of BlOb. Those decks didn't need it. [card]Sphinx's Revelation[/card] did more against me. I would get through for seemingly lethal, and he played a Revelation to negate the damage and give himself more options to use against me. I really hate that Revelation is instant speed while [card]Rakdos's Return[/card] is not.

[zemanjaski]

Well, it does cost 1 more, so they do pay for it

[windstrider]

Well, it does cost 1 more, so they do pay for it

Quit being reasonable while I'm unreasonably ranting.

Edit:
On a more serious note, those lists do not play a lot of counterspells. There has to be a way to capitalize on that.

We gotta get leaner and meaner in Dos Rakis. Stonewright has to come back in. He doesn't care about BlOb. And Pyreheart Wolf and Hound of Griselbrand laugh at Verdicts and most other removal. I lamented that Duress
sucked a few weeks ago, but it's clearly time to bring it back vs. these kinds of decks. How do we pressure them where they can least afford to be pressured?

[photodyer]

Only in one of those examples was Blind Obedience actually relevant, even then it's a card to gain a token amount of life. You're not going to play a card just so you can play all your other spells off curve. It sounds like you can't beat Azorius Charm, Pillar and Snapcaster; not Obedience. It isn't a win condition and it isn't removal. The other cards in the deck are what are beating you.

As far as I can tell, the card sees virtually no play outside of FNM.

James, it's damage negation against a deck that thrives on haste damage. True, if they burn out my Knight before he can swing in, BO plays no role other than a 2-point life swing--incremental damage. But when the card prevents swings from Zealot + Aristocrat + Hellkite on
the turns they come in, that's 11 points of damage that I did not deal on curve. That is half of their life total, and represents 3 wasted turns that take them that much closer to SR and moving further out of range. And if they are Extorting while my plays are negated--even off-curve--that widens the life gap. Yes, the decks can win without BlOb if they draw better than me, but if they don't I have better than even chances as they only have so many charms to draw into to prevent my haste damage. BlOb tips the scales, and its existence is part of the reason that Rb Aggro is also virtually dead. As you've said before, the numbers speak volumes...RDW is 14% of the online aggro metagame (7% of the 50% held by aggro decks), Gruul and Jund another 14% and 8% respectively. The 2% that is labeled "Rakdos Aggro" is actually a misnomer because many of the decks are actually Br Zombies rather than Rb haste creature curve. Swarm decks and decks like Zombies that value resilience over speed are
holding the fort; RDW is working because of adding BTE to swarm, or as in your case, players having the sense to recognize the continued value of Wolf and the acumen to play the deck well. BlOb was seeing play after GTC broke...and Rb went away. Yes, Sacred Foundry also played a role by bettering mana bases, and yes, BTE-based aggro is flat-out faster. But BlOb in control is damned potent against Dos Rakis.

BlOb is crap against swarm aggro--I admit that without question. It is also crap in a deck that can't deal with the cards it has tapped to mitigate damage. But it is a scale-tipper for burn/control decks, and you can still find it in some of the Patriot decks. Bottom line, the card's existence in the meta--played today or not--helped hate out Dos Rakis.

[hamfactorial]

Game of Thrones Season 3 starts tomorrow. Holy shit! Does life get any better than this?

[Blackhound]

Just jumping in to say I have been looking at the decks some of you guys have posted on this forum and im impressed. and welcome and all that.

[Christen]

I don't play Blind Obedience because I don't lose to midrange decks. You have so many tools to beat them already, I don't know why you would need more.

Disregard some of the things I said. Being tired can make you say things before you think about it, and I posted those literally while I was on the bed.

Blind Obedience helped me a lot when I was using the simple Boros aggro build. That deck didn't have much ways to deal with midrange specially when they start to stabilize. For your build with fliers, you do have a point that I might have too much of tools to beat midrange already.

I guess what I wanted most out of this card is shutting down Restoration Angel tricks, and at least allowing myself to swing with a few more points of
damage before they can wall me off.

[ExarionUniverse1]

I'm subscribed to this thread, but I'm not getting emails when there are new replies.

Is there a super secret setting that I've missed? I need the constant barrage of new reply notifications to feel alive.

Are you subscribed to the thread? I had to do it manually at the bottom of the page. I see no setting for auto subscribe with post in my settings.

I am subscribed,
I just haven't received any emails yet. I wonder what that's about? Maybe Google is denying me my daily FoS.

The new tech is working on it. and I apologize for you know what guys

[Platypus]

I tried my Gruul deck (the one in the Gruul Ragehammer thread) earlier this week against an earlier version of this deck:

[deck]23 Swamp
4 Knight of Infamy
2 Bloodgift Demon
4 Desecration Demon
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Tribute to Hunger
4 Tragic Slip
4 Victim of Night
3 Mutilate
2 Duress
2 Appetite for Brains
2 Sign in Blood
2 Essence Harvest
2 Underground Connections
Sideboard
4 Cremate
2 Sever the Bloodline
1 Mutilate
2 Appetite for Brains
2 Duress
2 Tribute to Hunger
2 Curse of Death's Hold[/deck]

I had a surprisingly hard time against it, lost both games. Ok, the first game I was mana screwed, and we only played two games so it's hard to draw any conclusions. But I've struggled before against a similar deck, lots of removal followed by big demons. So I started thinking...maybe I should dust of my old mono-black deck? Against the current meta, what decks would the above deck have the hardest time
beating?

[windstrider]

I tried my Gruul deck (the one in the Gruul Ragehammer thread) earlier this week against an earlier version of this deck:

[deck]23 Swamp
4 Knight of Infamy
2 Bloodgift Demon
4 Desecration Demon
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Tribute to Hunger
4 Tragic Slip
4 Victim of Night
3 Mutilate
2 Duress
2 Appetite for Brains
2 Sign in Blood
2 Essence Harvest
2 Underground Connections
Sideboard
4 Cremate
2 Sever the Bloodline
1 Mutilate
2 Appetite for Brains
2 Duress
2 Tribute to Hunger
2 Curse of Death's Hold[/deck]

I had a surprisingly hard time against it, lost both games. Ok, the first game I was mana screwed, and we only played two games so it's hard to draw any conclusions. But I've struggled before against a similar deck, lots of removal
followed by big demons. So I started thinking...maybe I should dust of my old mono-black deck? Against the current meta, what decks would the above deck have the hardest time beating?

I am liking this deck a lot. I might have to sleeve that up and try it out. Photo and I are thinking our way through a combo-ish deck to attack the meta from a different angle.

[TubeHunter]

Hey guys,got 3-1 at FNM, getting 4th. Lost to Naya, and beat Wolf Run Bant, G/r aggro, and a new kid.... yep.


Here is my deck
[deck]
Creatures
2 Stonewright
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Gore-house Chainwalker
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Pyreheart Wolf
4 Hellrider
1 Zealous Conscripts

Burn
4 Searing Spear
3 Pillar of Flame

Land
22 Mountain
1 Hellion Crucible

SB
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Volcanic Strength
2 Mark of Mutiny
1 Pillar of Flame
2 Flames of the Firebrand
3 Hound of Griselbrand
[/deck]

Any Suggestions? My deck feels good, but I feel like it could be better.

[photodyer]

I tried my Gruul deck (the one in the Gruul Ragehammer thread) earlier this week against an earlier version of this deck:

[deck]23 Swamp
4 Knight of Infamy
2 Bloodgift Demon
4 Desecration Demon
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Tribute to Hunger
4 Tragic Slip
4 Victim of Night
3 Mutilate
2 Duress
2 Appetite for Brains
2 Sign in Blood
2 Essence Harvest
2 Underground Connections
Sideboard
4 Cremate
2 Sever the Bloodline
1 Mutilate
2 Appetite for Brains
2 Duress
2 Tribute to Hunger
2 Curse of Death's Hold[/deck]

I had a surprisingly hard time against it, lost both games. Ok, the
first game I was mana screwed, and we only played two games so it's hard to draw any conclusions. But I've struggled before against a similar deck, lots of removal followed by big demons. So I started thinking...maybe I should dust of my old mono-black deck? Against the current meta, what decks would the above deck have the hardest time beating?

I am liking this deck a lot. I might have to sleeve that up and try it out. Photo and I are thinking our way through a combo-ish deck to attack the meta from a different angle.

I agree, but I can't leave well enough alone...I want to splash white for Lingering Souls. Which of course then opens up another whole can of worms...

[zemanjaski]

This is what happens when FoS leaves MTGS:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=500112

Vomit.

[Valdarith]

This is what happens when FoS leaves MTGS:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=500112

Vomit.

Lol. I knew this would happen.

[photodyer]

This is what happens when FoS leaves MTGS:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=500112

Vomit.

Holy horseshit, Batman...

That is just ludicrous...I saw Rogue get hammered over there for spawning a duplicate thread as well (it was an Aristocrats overview, I believe). Trash dumping.

[zemanjaski]

Sshhh. Don't imply they're bad, that's flaming! You might discourage them from producing high level content again...

[hamfactorial]

Reading that thread is more uncomfortable than all the sexual tension with redthirst.

[Self Medicated]

Gods I want to reply. What are these people thinking? Doesn't Boros Reckoner or Ash Zealot dissuade your opponent from attacking with GoST?

[zemanjaski]

I'm trying to understand what matchup GoST is actually relevant in; all the Rx variants have good to great matchups against Bant Enchant and UWR doesn't bring it in against Rx...this is just an example if bad players not understanding why they lost.

[Kazekirimaru]

Hey guys,got 3-1 at FNM, getting 4th. Lost to Naya, and beat Wolf Run Bant, G/r aggro, and a new kid.... yep.


Here is my deck
[deck]
Creatures
2 Stonewright
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Gore-house Chainwalker
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Pyreheart Wolf
4 Hellrider
1 Zealous Conscripts

Burn
4 Searing Spear
3 Pillar of Flame

Land
22 Mountain
1 Hellion Crucible

SB
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Volcanic Strength
2 Mark of Mutiny
1 Pillar of Flame
2 Flames of the Firebrand
3 Hound of Griselbrand
[/deck]

Any Suggestions? My deck feels good, but I feel like it could be better.

Though I'm a huge proponent of fine-tuning
to taste, I find that a burn suite of 4Searing Spear, 4 Pillar of flame, and 2 Brimstone Volley works fantastically in the mainboard. This is naught but personal preference, though.

Everything else looks pretty snazzy.

[zemanjaski]

Mark of Mutiny is worse than Traitorous Blood; I know Metamorph likes Traitorous Instinct, so that might be worth considering.

[zemanjaski]

Dega Midrange built around:

- faithless looting
- unburial rites
- lingering souls
- obzedat
- aurelia
- boros reckoner
- dreadbore, mizzium mortars, rolling temblor
- Rakdos' return
- blind obedience

That's got to be a deck right?

[zemanjaski]

[deck]
4 boros reckoner

2 aurelia, the warleader
2 obzedat, ghost council
2 olivia voldaren

3 Liliana of the Veil

2 dreadbore
4 faithless looting
4 lingering souls
2 mizzium mortars
2 rakdos's return
3 rolling temblor
2 ultimate price
3 unburial rites

4 blood crypt
4 clifftop retreat
4 dragonskull summit
4 godless shrine
4 isolated chapel
3 sacred foundry
2 vault of the archangel[/deck]

[rcwraspy]

Mark of Mutiny is worse than Traitorous Blood; I know Metamorph likes Traitorous Instinct, so that might be worth considering.

Mark of Mutiny showed up in a featured match in today's SCG Open. I was wondering if somehow there was something I'd missed about the card since I was surprised to see it played. Nope. Unless you're swinging for the kill, giving back your opponent's creature larger than you found it both seems and in reality is, pretty bad.

[zemanjaski]

In the RB decks with sacrifice outlets it gets better; but yeah, Blood is on average the better card.

[Link]

I said it before in the MTGS Dos Rakis thread, but I'm on the "BO actually does work against aggro in the form of effective damage prevention" I think MonoR and even Gruul can power through it and take advantage of the less threat removal density that bringing BO in has, but Dos Rakis has a harder time with their haste engine taken away.

And yeah Zeman, I think that deck is even scarier than Junk Rites just because of its removal and obzedat

[zemanjaski]

All three decks run a similar amount of haste; Hellrider is just better positioned against BO than Aristocrat.

[Kazekirimaru]

Blind Obedience is a good way to set an aggro deck one or two turns back. Though it's lost its mainboard potential lately as the meta has progressed, in my opinion. I've moved them out of the mainboard in my aggro decks in favor of Oblivion Ring or Faith's Shield. Though not quite on curve, I'm pretty tired of drawing Blind Obedience against stupid control decks.

[Calamity]

went to the PTQ in philly today with boros sligh...kinda scrubbed out and went 3-5. Lost to a green based gruul deck with...vexing devil.

Yeah yeah, revoke my FoS card...

[Alex]

went to the PTQ in philly today with boros sligh...kinda scrubbed out and went 3-5. Lost to a green based gruul deck with...vexing devil.

Yeah yeah, revoke my FoS card...

We've all been there. I scrubbed out at a 1k pretty hard playing Legacy before Survival of the Fittest was banned, I ended up like 4-4 with a literally "broken" deck that would later be banned. Happens to the best of us.

[Alex]

PS: At Zeman, do you think you could bum me some commons/uncommons that I need for a pauper deck I want to try out? MTGOTrader bots don't have 'em all, and I don't want to have to spread credit for commons, lol.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah no problem. Hit me up next time i am on, happy to lend whatever.

[Calamity]

went to the PTQ in philly today with boros sligh...kinda scrubbed out and went 3-5. Lost to a green based gruul deck with...vexing devil.

Yeah yeah, revoke my FoS card...

We've all been there. I scrubbed out at a 1k pretty hard playing Legacy before Survival of the Fittest was banned, I ended up like 4-4 with a literally "broken" deck that would later be banned. Happens to the best of us.

I'm not actually that mad about it, since I actually don't think boros sligh
is a good deck...i tried experimenting with brighthammer but couldn't find any good builds. Aurelia's fury is kind of a pet card for me (it just seems too strong to not see play! Same with Firemane avenger... how the hell is lightning helix on a stick not played!? I know the latter is because of restoration angel and hellrider, and the former is not finding a home but still) that i tried to make work.

I really wish i was playing aristocrats, since it seems like the perfect kind of deck for me (one that can not only grind out small advantages but also have explosive and aggressive starts). Only problem is i don't have the cash for stuff i need for it (almost 300 bucks).

Ah well, for now i've started saving in anticipation for rotation and started trying to trade/sell my non Thalia standard stuff in preparation for the rotation, and saving for the next standard. I don't wanna get screwed out of playing the deck i want because of the money and don't/can't get into a new standard deck in the
current format. If i pick red cards in Theros half as well as i did for this standard... (hellriders for 3 bucks, boros reckoners for 3 bucks, thundermaws for 10 bucks) i'll be set.

[rcwraspy]

went to the PTQ in philly today with boros sligh...kinda scrubbed out and went 3-5. Lost to a green based gruul deck with...vexing devil.

Yeah yeah, revoke my FoS card...

We've all been there. I scrubbed out at a 1k pretty hard playing Legacy before Survival of the Fittest was banned, I ended up like 4-4 with a literally "broken" deck that would later be banned. Happens to the best of us.

I'm not actually that mad about it, since I actually don't think boros sligh is a good deck...i tried experimenting with brighthammer but couldn't find any good builds. Aurelia's fury is kind of a pet card for me (it just seems too strong to not see play! Same with Firemane avenger... how the hell is lightning helix on a stick not played!? I know the latter is because of restoration angel and hellrider, and the former is not finding a home but still) that i tried to make work.

I really wish i was playing aristocrats, since it seems like the perfect kind of deck for me (one that can not only grind out small advantages but also have explosive and aggressive starts). Only problem is i don't have the cash for stuff i need for it (almost 300 bucks).

Ah well, for now i've started saving in anticipation for rotation and started trying to trade/sell my non Thalia standard stuff in preparation for the rotation, and
saving for the next standard. I don't wanna get screwed out of playing the deck i want because of the money and don't/can't get into a new standard deck in the current format. If i pick red cards in Theros half as well as i did for this standard... (hellriders for 3 bucks, boros reckoners for 3 bucks, thundermaws for 10 bucks) i'll be set.

Well there's still another 5-6 months until rotation.