[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Thrillho]

That deck can't even Dig Through Time or Treasure Cruise.

[TBuzzsaw]

Double Dragon. Cause I couldn't think of a good deck for Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon(temur sabertooth+dromaka).

[deck]4 Orator of Ojutai
3 Dragonlord Dramoka
3 Dragonlord Ojutai

2 Last Breath
2 Divination
3 Banishing Light
3 End Hostilities
1 Negate
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Ojutai's command
2 Dragonlord's Prerogative

2 Narset Transcendant
2 Kiora, The Crashing Wave
2 Elspeth, Sun's champion
2 Ugin, The Spirit Dragon

12 Temples
4 Flooded Strand
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
2 Island
2 Plains
2 Forest
1 Windswept Heath
3 Yavimaya Coast[/deck]

Seems I'm not the only one trying to build a Bant Control list. Dromoka's a one-of in my list though. Not sure if I want to see her more than once.

[deck]
4 Nyx-Fleece Ram
1 Dragonlord Dromoka

2 Reality Shift
3 Banishing Light
2 Disdainful Stroke
3 Ojutai Command
4 End Hostilities
4 Dig Through Time
4 Anticipation

2 Narset, Transcendent
1 Kiora, The Crashing Wave
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Ugin, The Spirit Dragon
[/deck]


I like the command's synergy in bringing back Ram if I need to for whatever reason, plus I have Fleecemane Lions in the side to bring back and Monstrosity. Reality Shift is most there as insurance to take care of any problem creature that may slip through the cracks like Stormbreath.

[Jamie]

MTGO is great if you have nothing but hatred for yourself

In large quanities

also i have like 400$ in actual cards

[RedNihilist]

Get rid of Kiora, come on.

[TBuzzsaw]

Kiora's just a flex spot.

[Kaitscralt]

a sexy flexy spot

[Kaitscralt]

Kait, bust out that grading scale!

n = anthem
X-2 = red budg caj median results average
0 = 17/40 = 18/40 = n/a
1/4 of a Siege Rhino = drain for .75
4/5 = Siege Rhino
1 = shit = 10 = worst of the worst = n/a (Italy grade school metric)
2 = shit = 10 = n/a (Italy grade school metric)
3 = shit = 10 = pretty bad = worst of the worst (Italy grade school metric)
4 = double shit = 10
5 = shit = 10 = sufficient (Italy grade school metric [5=6?])
6 = shit = 10 = sufficient (Italy grade school metric [5=6?])
6.5 = shitfficient = goblin pity rating
7 = above sufficient (Italy grade school metric)
8 = enough
9 = actually not shit
10 = amazing, a rare zem/gem = 18/41 = Tasigur Bananas Sufficient

[Kaitscralt]

I love the way you guys synergize Banishing Light with Ugin

[Kaitscralt]

I rate both decks shit out of .75 Rhino Drains

[Kaitscralt]

this standard format is about deck synergy and accumulating value from your permanents in ways that overcomes removal and overwhelms your opponents board presence. your deck must be a well-oiled machine that can accrue advantage for the late game.

you cannot just jam all your favorite spells in Bant into a deck and think it's going to work. this is not Jund Planeswalkers Standard where the only goal is to beat Rev before Rev.

your deck needs to have the question to the answer.

[Kaitscralt]

like, with KNOWN information, what is orator blocking in standard, what is last breath targeting in standard, what is Dromoka doing against what, why opportunity instead of ingenuity, how is a deck with 8! 6 drops and 2! 8 drops and 0! ramp spells not going to die ALWAYS, why Banishing Light w/ Ugin, etc etc etc

[RedNihilist]

Generally speaking, I don't know how much I like Dromoka (and I'm not saying that's not a good card, I sincerely don't want to think about how good it will be), but I don't think that splashing a third color in a UW Control shell is the proper way to try to capitalize on the card.

Also, Elspeth is not as well positioned as it was some weeks ago, Banishing Light is not the kind of removal you want to play in a world where enchantment hate is everywhere in order to fight ascendancies / sieges (and everybody will bring them in if you also play rams...), and the random nonbo with Ugin is just some place where you don't want to be.

I'm curious to see how UWx Narset is going to turn out, though.

[Jamie]

Last breath hits goblin rabblemaster, which is played in probably half of decks. So you only include 2, which is half the full amount you could play. Trust me I majored in mathematics

[Thrillho]

Those numbers look like a RNG had a seizure.

[Jamie]

Adrian Sullivan plays only one sweeper maindeck how is that allowed? What a skilled player.
And he plays his permanents upsidedown what a scholar

[GoblinWarchief]

Red now has its own (very shitty) sphinx's revelation : Commune with Lava

[RedNihilist]

Perilous Vaults are sweepers.

[Kaitscralt]

Last breath hits goblin rabblemaster, which is played in probably half of decks. So you only include 2, which is half the full amount you could play. Trust me I majored in mathematics

If last week was any guide then Rabblemaster is on the steep decline

[Kaitscralt]

And to whomever said something negative about Elspeth I ask, do you play Standard, do you follow Standard, have you played Elspeth, have you read Elspeth, she has been returning to deck lists more and more since Fates Reforged and is a menace once again more than any other Walker

[windstrider]

Red now has its own (very shitty) sphinx's revelation : Commune with Lava

It's instant scalable card draw in red, and the effects last until the end of your next turn. That's something we haven't seen before. This has potential in the right deck, and it's very obviously meant for mid to late game, which is where most mono-red decks struggle.

Is it a 4-of? Obviously not. But I could see it as a 1-of or even 2-of vs. control decks.

[Kaitscralt]

does aNyone else want me to bring harm to their faulty forum logic

[Thrillho]

It's Epic Experiment and Genesis Wave's love child. But they're brother and sister so the baby was born without that critical "without paying its mana cost" line of text.
Also with fetal alcohol syndrome, but that's just because Epic Experiment has been out of work since it was released.

[Kaitscralt]

the baby is narset

[Jamie]

Spark Jolt is my favorite red card.

[Kaitscralt]

I'm sorry but I refuse to be your dominatrix

[RedNihilist]

And to whomever said something negative about Elspeth I ask, do you play Standard, do you follow Standard, have you played Elspeth, have you read Elspeth, she has been returning to deck lists more and more since Fates Reforged and is a menace once again more than any other Walker

I still love you, don't worry.

[windstrider]

I'd really like to know: Am I evaluating Commune with Lava incorrectly? This seems like a powerful effect for red to have.

[Kaitscralt]

it's a tricky card to evaluate

you could fuck about with storm in modern

or you could fuck about with burn spells in standard

either way you might end up with a nasty dogs dick in your hand

[Kaitscralt]

I'd go with test 1 over test 4

[Kaitscralt]

did you guys know that DTR admin #36 is posting every spoiler in News and Rumors? If your puny brains could conjur up even one interesting remark about 1/8th of them, we could actually be talking about the new set aside from the shitty red cards at the bottom of the forum!

[Kaitscralt]

who's been fucking with my medicine

[Thrillho]

The fact that it is instant is what gives it any legs. Epic Experiment is almost strictly better in Modern, but as above, you can EOT "draw" x cards and presumably overwhelm your opponent with burn and Rabblemasters after you untap.
Also keep in mind that Revelation became a 4-of always on the back of the added bonus of "not dying by being punched to death," and that was also without the added drawback of having to dump the cards immediately or lose them forever.
Drawing an extra card each turn with this effect is powerful because you can prioritize casting it if it's worth not losing the value. Drawing X cards with this effect is dangerous because in most red decks you simply cannot prioritize or presumably even cast all of those spells in one turn.

But maybe I'm wrong and the key is flipping 6 1cc creatures and burying your opponent.

[Kaitscralt]

Flip 4 Zurgo's

[Kaitscralt]

Assemble Zultron

[Kaitscralt]

Flip 4 Zurgo's

4 big Zurgo's

[windstrider]

Here's my thinking:
Red decks want more options, especially as the game goes longer. How many times has a red player thought "If I draw x, then I win" only to not get that card? Cast it at the end of their turn for x=3, and you now have 4 cards to choose from after your draw step. That's potentially another land to play, more burn, and more creatures.

Is it a given that this card is actually good? No. It certainly has potential, however.

[Kaitscralt]

Actually what you want to do (against blue) is cast it on your turn, because they either counter it and leave themselves without a counter for your burn spells at the end of their turn, or they let it resolve and give you a ton of cards to play around with next turn.

Of course, this isn't RW Burn vs Rev, where the card might have shone, it's RW Aggro vs Siege Rhino, so good luck finding the time

[Kaitscralt]

it's a cool card though

[LP, of the Fires]

like, with KNOWN information, what is orator blocking in standard, what is last breath targeting in standard, what is Dromoka doing against what, why opportunity instead of ingenuity, how is a deck with 8! 6 drops and 2! 8 drops and 0! ramp spells not going to die ALWAYS, why Banishing Light w/ Ugin, etc etc etc

Last breath kills Rabblemaster and Courser: the best 3 drops instandard. It also kills all the good 2-drops minus fleecemane lion, which is all you really need it to do. Also slows down green devotions development.

Orator of Ojutai blocks goblin tokens, all the cheap aggressive guys minus maybe rabble and rakshasa's deathdealer pretty well, mantis rider, again, everything cheap.

Dramoka protects Ojutai letting you actually attack with it when your opponent has removal up and forces them to either sequence incorrectly or timewalk them.

Opportunity draws 4 cards which is more then 3 and is good in the control mirror where you actually would like the help.

The banishing light is just a placeholder until something else gets spoiled and/or I do more work on the deck.

The ramp issue got SLIGHTLY addressed by cutting narset for dragon monuments. The monuments aren't great, but they're actually threats against opposing PW decks which is nice.

Lastly, I thought I'd actually, you know, BREW and share my thoughts with people here as opposed to just leaving it on my facebook group. I am annoyed that your surprised that there's a lot of stuff wrong with the deck seeing as it's the first brew when the whole spoiler isn't even out. Like, I'm sorry I posted a rough decklist instead of a pristine copy of caw-blade. Forgive me oh mighty kait.

[LP, of the Fires]

I think I could probably get away with cutting the banishing lights and maybe the negate for a third end hostilitites, a last breath, and a couple copies of valorous stance. Would overall lower the curve, be more tapland friendly and give me faster interaction which is nice.