New Card Talk & Future Brews[Post-JOU] Boros Burn

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[Post-JOU] Boros Burn

Post #1 by magicdownunder » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:05 pm

Well the full set has finally been spoiled - here is my take on what I believe the 60 cards should be:

[deck=Rw Burn]Lands 24
6 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
2 Mana Confluence
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malice

Creatures 8
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments 4
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Banishing Light

Burns 24
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Shock[/deck]
The cards which I like most are (for burn):
Mana Confluence <-- I hope people run 4x >:) - I'm not entirely sure if we should be running 2x MD if the mirror or weenie MUs grows new wings from JiN - (in which case Searing Blood will get a new lease on life).
Banishing Light <-- Answer everything.card
[card:
28z6zbti]Reprisal[/card] <-- possible hate card if BWx gets big
Deicide <-- more possible hate (may replace W//T)

Worst fears:
Nyx-Fleece Ram <-- this will be a very strong anti-burn card (I might go get 4x foil of them because I LOVE the art)
Sigiled Starfish <-- terrifying

Basically I'm worried about UW control :p

- - - - -

On the first week I'll recommend not running Mana Confluence - just use 1x RW Gate, cut 1 shock and add 2x Searing Blood since I predict many people will be trying BW....
Last edited by magicdownunder on Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #2 by BrainsickHater » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:33 pm

I'm working on my SB for an IQ in Syracuse, whose meta is apparently 3/4 GR monsters. I'm running a pretty stock YP list, and here's my SB so far:

[deck]
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Mutavault
1 Chained to the Rocks
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Blind Obedience
3 Toil // Trouble
[/deck]

I can't decide between Toil//Trouble and Firstblade, and I also would like to have 1-2x Wear//Tear / Glare of Heresy somewhere, but the SB feels pretty tight.
I seemed to me that Firstblade was just better than Trouble in every matchup I wanted to bring it in, but Toil's card draw seems good enough it might be better(?) How has T/T been performing for everyone, and do you guys think that BloB is not-prevalent enough in paper to get away with firstblade?

Also, if you have any ideas for cuts that would allow a Wear or Glare to get in, by all means post them.

EDIT: Woops wrong thread

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Post #3 by Purp » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:34 pm

Skullcrack MD seems weak especially in the early going of the format. Searing blood will def be better.
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Post #4 by Rhyno » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:55 pm

I don't see the format warping so much that Skullcrack will be wrong in the main. Rev decks should still be a big part of the meta.

We're not really getting any tools though. Font of Ire seems weak. There are a lot of matchups where we want to tap out every single turn meaning Font of Ire won't benefit from the split-up mana cost. And if they can interact with it at all it's horrible.

Mana Confluence is an obvious auto-include over Boros Guildgate.
I agree with magicdownunder about the rest of the potential white tools.

If it wasn't for Courser of Kruphix, Spite of Mogis could have replaced Mizzium Mortars. Hitting 4 by turn 5/6 isn't unreasonable but hitting a Courser is even more important than hitting a Baron or Dragon.

Eidolon of the Great Revel is a card I'm excited about to potentially replace Zealots/Pyromancers.

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Post #5 by magicdownunder » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:57 am

You may have misread Eidolon of the Great Revel, he targets the player which plays the spell under 3cc or less - thus in burn he'll end up killing us :tears:

In regards with Spite of Mogis if it was an instant speed spell it may of had a place as a 2x but at sorc speed MM would just be better more consistence.
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Post #6 by Rhyno » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:03 am

I know it's symmetrical, I'd probably test in the board with 4 Phoenix as the only creatures in the main.

Ash Zealot does attacks for 2 the turn it comes in, and they both attack for the same after that, but Eidolon will also typically do 2 damage even if they remove it right away. If it triggers at all before it gets removed it'll d more damage than a Zealot.
Obviously the lack of first strike will hurt against WW and situations where you want to swing into a big dude (Blood Baron) so I'll have to see where the meta goes too.

I think a couple things have to happen for it to be good but I'm not dismissing it. And running in the main seems very dubious.

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Post #7 by warwizard87 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:25 am

magicdownunder » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:05 am wrote:Well the full set has finally been spoiled - here is my take on what I believe the 60 cards should be:

[deck=Rw Burn]Lands 24
6 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
2 Mana Confluence
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malice

Creatures 8
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments 4
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Banishing Light

Burns 24
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Shock[/deck]
The cards which I like most are (for burn):
Mana Confluence <-- I hope people run 4x >:) - I'm not entirely sure if we should be running 2x MD if the mirror or weenie MUs grows new wings from JiN - (
in which case Searing Blood will get a new lease on life).
Banishing Light <-- Answer everything.card
Reprisal <-- possible hate card if BWx gets big
Deicide <-- more possible hate (may replace W//T)

Worst fears:
Nyx-Fleece Ram <-- this will be a very strong anti-burn card (I might go get 4x foil of them because I LOVE the art)
Sigiled Starfish <-- terrifying

Basically I'm worried about UW control :p

- - - - -

On the first week I'll recommend not running Mana Confluence - just use 1x RW Gate, cut 1 shock and add 2x Searing Blood since I predict many people will be trying BW....



In my small amount of testing so far I haven't really like mana confluence, it just has been
doing to much damage to me.

With ram and starfish seems young pyromancer will be much better then ash for sure.
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Post #8 by magicdownunder » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:54 am

I'm glad you notice the weakness with Mana Confluence, unless the meta switches into pure control and attrition decks it won't be THAT much better then gates (at least for us since we primarily attack via spells).
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Post #9 by warwizard87 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:15 pm

makes me wish i hadn't preordered 2 of them
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Post #10 by magicdownunder » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:41 am

Purp » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:34 am wrote:Skullcrack MD seems weak especially in the early going of the format. Searing blood will def be better.


Hmmmm, I'm usually inclined to agree with this comment (the other grinders say the same) early on in the format the odds of facing aggro is quite high.

It just in JOU case, wizard gifted wrapped cards for Hexproof (new creature + land) and UW control (O-Ring and maybe the starfish or sheep) thus I'll be concerned to go without some number of Skulls.

So Maybe:

[deck=Burn]Lands 23
8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malice

Creatures 8
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments 4
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Banishing Light

Burns 25
3 Searing Blood
3 Skullcrack
n4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Warleader's Helix
3 Shock[/deck]

I'm not really loving Searing Blood Pre-JOU without Ash but if Wb is out in force the Bloods will be handy.
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Post #11 by Purp » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:47 pm

Why do we need banishing light MD? Chain handles creatures just fine (at 1cmc) and most planeswalkers we ignore...
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Post #12 by magicdownunder » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:25 pm

It answers everything and is never a dead card (+ I'm bias and I love O-Ring....).
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Post #13 by Purp » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:47 pm

It is a 3 mana answer to everything... Chain is a 1 mana answer to creatures, and we are worried about nothing else.
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Post #14 by hoeiberg » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:00 pm

I don't know, removing Whip of Erebos or even Unflinching Courage could be quite an important play, and it could also remove Thassa before she becomes a creature.

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Post #15 by Purp » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:23 pm

Those are two cards that arn't much issue in any G1 matchup.
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Post #16 by magicdownunder » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:44 pm

Except in hexproof or junk, hitting an early jace is big game as well (ignoring Jace is incorrect unless your close to winning).

Keep in mind playing 4x Chains is rather risky because of control with O-ring you can do it without damaging any of your MUs that badly.
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Post #17 by zemanjaski » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:44 am

I think some split of Chains / O-Ring is worth testing at least.
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Post #18 by TBuzzsaw » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:49 am

Would Reprisal be good as a sideboard card if Obzedat is seeing heavy play? Technically Chain can work on anything Reprisal can and I wouldn't even consider it if I don't see Ghost Daddy around.
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Post #19 by magicdownunder » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:07 am

Definitely, if GW, Monsters and Dredge picks up as well I could see it claim a 2x slot in the SB.

That said I'll try my earnest to avoid placing it into the board unless the meta truly demands it.
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Not ready for JOU

Post #20 by montu » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:41 pm

I finally don't completely suck with Burn. With so many potential new cards (for all decks), it feels like completely starting over to learn the format and sequences of plays. (I guess that's what makes MTG fun . . . ever changing.) Perhaps it's time to take a step back and focus more on the fundamentals.

If the first couple of weeks is expected to see more aggro, wouldn't SB Firedancer make sense?

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Post #21 by magicdownunder » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:34 am

IDK, if we're packing 4x Chains and 2-4x O-Rings the dancer are going too be rather lack luster...
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Post #22 by Purp » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:51 pm

[deck]
4 YP$
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Chandra's Pheonix
2 Stormbreath Dragons

2 Chandra, Pyromaster

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Shock
2 Searing Blood
2 Chained to the rocks
2 Warleader's Helix
2 Font of Ire


25 Lands - maybe something like
8 RW Lands
4 Mutavaults
3 Scry Lands
10 Mountain
[/deck]
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Post #23 by montu » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:09 pm

I'm finally catching up on JOU. A couple of things I found interesting:

Aegis of the Gods nullifies Thoughtseize and Duress.
Hypnotic Siren - Am I reading this right that it is a 1 mana Domestication, with improvements?

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Post #24 by Toddington » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:21 pm

montu » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:09 pm wrote:Hypnotic Siren - Am I reading this right that it is a 1 mana Domestication, with improvements?


You have to bestow it on their dude to take control, if you cast it normally it's a 1/1 flier.

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Post #25 by Tyrael » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:16 pm

It's a 1/1 flyer for 1 cmc with a domestication effect for 7 cmc
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Post #26 by montu » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:42 pm

Doh! I knew I was missing something obvious. Whew.

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Post #27 by Elricity » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:06 pm

Let's get the sideboard included here because I think that's where the most fun comes in.

[deck]
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

2 Chain to the rocks
1 Banishing Light

4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Searing Blood
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack

1 Boros Guildgate
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Silence
3 Mutavault
7 Mountain

Sideboard

1 Banishing Light
2 Chain to the Rocks
1 Prophetic Flamespeaker
1 Blind Obedience
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Spark Trooper
1 Mutavault
4 Toil // Trouble
[/deck]

Bx control
On play -4 shock, -4 boros charm, -1 banishing light, -2 searing blood, +4 toil, +1 mutavault, +2 chain, +2 Chandra, +2 assemble. The old run them over plan. They didn't get any new toys so why change what works?

On draw, the above but +2 banishing light, -2 toil.[/
spoiler]

[spoiler=U devotion, or Gx aggro]-4 boros charm, -4 skullcrack, +2 chain, +1 banishing light, +2 Chandra, +1 spark trooper, +1 Prophetic Flamespeaker. +1 mutavault. Kill everything and bury them under card advantage.


dredge or Rx aggro
Above but -1 spark trooper for +1 blind obedience. Anti whip/haste to dodge walling or bolting spark trooper, respectively.


Bx aggro, Junk or Jund monsters
Above but -1 flamespeaker for +1 assemble. Dodging doom blades.


burn
-4 YP, -4 Phoenix, +2 Chandra, +1 Mutavault, +4 toil, +1 BO. If they go on the same plan, then -2 chain, +1 Prophetic Flamespeaker, +1 Phoenix. If they pull out too much removal and Flamespeaker connects, the game is basically over.


UWx control
-2 Searing blood, -2 chains, -4 shock, +1 banishing light, +1 mutavault, +2 Chandra, +4 toil. Usual game plan but now we have
universal answers to all their permanents.


Thoughts? Basically, banishing light gave us a way of finally tossing the situational cards like wear/glare/mortar and have a more cohesive sideboard and a slightly better game one with as well vs control. I personally think Flamespeaker will be awesome enough to kick up to two and drop the spark trooper but for now I'm playing it safe. I'm also likely to flip between Flames of the Firebrand and Searing blood depending on how good the latter is at any given time.

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Post #28 by magicdownunder » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:34 pm

looks rock solid Elricity, except I'll go -4x T//T on the draw for +2x Boros Charm vs Bx Devotion.

I think Prophetic Flamespeaker is questionable in a deck with Spark Trooper and 8 terror effects (4x Chains, 2x Banishing Light and 2x Searing Blood) unless your behind, in which case the speaker won't get the swing in anyways :P.
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Post #29 by magicdownunder » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:53 pm

Purp » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:51 pm wrote:[deck]
4 YP$
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Chandra's Pheonix
2 Stormbreath Dragons

2 Chandra, Pyromaster

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Shock
2 Searing Blood
2 Chained to the rocks
2 Warleader's Helix
2 Font of Ire


25 Lands - maybe something like
8 RW Lands
4 Mutavaults
3 Scry Lands
10 Mountain
[/deck]


Wouldn't Boros Charm be better then Font of Ire here? Boros Charm to save your team or on Boros Reckoner is usually quite nice.
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Post #30 by Elricity » Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:58 am

magicdownunder » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:34 pm wrote:looks rock solid Elricity, except I'll go -4x T//T on the draw for +2x Boros Charm vs Bx Devotion.

I think Prophetic Flamespeaker is questionable in a deck with Spark Trooper and 8 terror effects (4x Chains, 2x Banishing Light and 2x Searing Blood) unless your behind, in which case the speaker won't get the swing in anyways :P.


That is a good point.

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Post #31 by Elricity » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:11 am

Ok, so back to dumping searing blood for flames and maybe try out the second flamespeaker by swapping out spark trooper. I hope I'm not going down the oracle of bones path with this guy. Going back to 6 scry lands might just be smarter for the sole reason that you might need to play a land untapped revealed by him to cast the other spell if you're on 3 lands.

I think I'm ok wasting some terrors if the board is empty just because it chews me to finishers quicker. Still, flames over blood is a no brainer.

The biggest danger with Flamespeaker is if your opponent is smart and/or lucky, he can hold off until after you reveal the first card or two and use his removal before the damage step ends and keep you from casting any sorcery speed effects that it revealed.

So, with flames in, Bx is probably just bring in 2 t/t on the play and swap it for banishing light on the draw.

4/2 still seems right for the amount of
terrors in the 75. If agro doesn't materialize like everyone fears (remember Bg zombies?), 3/2 might be right but I highly doubt it. I think 2/2 game 1 is going a bit too slow.

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Post #32 by zemanjaski » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:07 am

Font of Ire in constructed is interesting I guess; it's not at all efficient but at some point efficiency is less important than the number of damage written on the card.
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Post #33 by Elricity » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:58 am

I guess but how many lava spikes can you stuff in? That's my biggest issue with it. It doesn't compete with boros charm or skullcrack in the decks you want that effect. It's a more likely swap for trouble for consistency, if anything. Maybe if bant becomes a thing.

A constellation deck might make use out of it...somehow.

Haven't had a real chance to test flamespeaker yet since I have only had a couple of aggro matchups and didn't draw it. If anyone is interested in some testing, let me know when.

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Post #34 by Elricity » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:20 am

Ok, finally got to play it against red aggro. Apparently drawing 8 cards is a thing. Had Chandra in hand and didn't even need to play it. I like that their only answer is lightning strike.
Last edited by Elricity on Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #35 by zemanjaski » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:32 am

The card is completely retarded.
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redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
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Post #36 by magicdownunder » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:33 am

I'm still a non-believer....
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Post #37 by Elricity » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:46 am

You were right that you need to pull some terror effects out. However, it hitting land drops is just stupid good.

The card is just fine vs black aggro by the way.
Last edited by Elricity on Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #38 by zemanjaski » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:51 am

[deck=Red Aggro]
Creatures
4 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Firefist Striker
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Gore-House Chainwalker
4 Mogis's Warhound
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Rubblebelt Maaka

Instants
4 Titan's Strength

Lands
18 Mountain
2 Mutavault
[/deck]
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redthirst » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am wrote:1 - Drunk, surly zem
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Post #39 by Elricity » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:10 am

Balls deep. Everflame in sideboard I assume? I just like bestow wrecking over verdicts.
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Post #40 by magicdownunder » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:11 am

RDW has actually been doing quite well recently, I wonder how RDW vs Wx Weenies is going to turn out.

Shame I hate playing creature focused decks :(
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