[Primer] Boros Burn
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Some time today/tonight I'm gonna post a huge 40 game set vs brave naya to test the firedancers vs it. Have a job interview today so that will cut into my testing some LOL. Hate summers the university were I work is closed so I have a lot of time on my hands sigh.
I swear to God, every thread we make falls victim to Godwin's law except instead of Hitler it's redthirst's piece.
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I went 3-1 with my wacky list during the DE (I was getting land **** left and right D:), I'll be scrapping this experiment from this point on and switching too the Z land base though I still debating the Mana Confluence vs Boros Gate war (I have accepted that more then 4 non-red lands is incorrect with blood and revel though).
We're playing a deck which taps out often and rarely leaves behind ongoing pressure (unless CP or YP sticks ) is 2x Mana Confluence correct or should they be RW Gates?
Maybe it should be 1/1 or 0/2 choices.... choices..... (I'll love to hear your thoughts on this guys).
We're playing a deck which taps out often and rarely leaves behind ongoing pressure (unless CP or YP sticks ) is 2x Mana Confluence correct or should they be RW Gates?
Maybe it should be 1/1 or 0/2 choices.... choices..... (I'll love to hear your thoughts on this guys).
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Mana Confluence is pretty amazing. Even when I had it in my opening hands, its pretty easy to not have to play it early until you need the untapped source.
I sort of like this creature base:
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Satyr Firedancer
Which would allow both
4 Firedirnker
4 Toil
in the SB. YP$ to me is strictly better than SFD in the control matchup, and maybe slightly better in the Bx matchup. Junk is what scares me, and SFD is the nuts in that matchup. Banishing Light as a 1 of seems ok, I certainly wont run two again. I lost a couple matches where I was just wishing I had another burn spell in my deck, which is why I like SFD. With him in the deck, I can keep in most burn spells.
Got "States" this weekend with most everyone else, the meta will be pretty close to what SCG knox was, so I need to plan accordingly, unfortunately no time to test Revel
I sort of like this creature base:
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Satyr Firedancer
Which would allow both
4 Firedirnker
4 Toil
in the SB. YP$ to me is strictly better than SFD in the control matchup, and maybe slightly better in the Bx matchup. Junk is what scares me, and SFD is the nuts in that matchup. Banishing Light as a 1 of seems ok, I certainly wont run two again. I lost a couple matches where I was just wishing I had another burn spell in my deck, which is why I like SFD. With him in the deck, I can keep in most burn spells.
Got "States" this weekend with most everyone else, the meta will be pretty close to what SCG knox was, so I need to plan accordingly, unfortunately no time to test Revel
yurp yurp
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It's interesting that we considered Eidolon against cheap aggro decks; I think he would really shine against control decks, despite the fact that he's most prone to removal in those matchups. I might try him out in the board against control as opposed to Trouble or FDS. I wish I could run FDS knowing it would be totally safe, but I hate the idea of getting next-leveled by their ram.
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Monsters (only one, if you have 4x MM don't use it because you only have 12 targets, 8 of which require work ), Junk (its great here), BG Rock, BW Control, GW, G Devo and B Aggro.@ MDU, where are you bringing in Reprisal?
I'm not sure if these decks are common enough too run 2x so I may cut one down soon.
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Battle report
Just went 3-0 in a SE running into Bant Control, Esper Humans and MonoR Aggro (running titan strength, dragon mantle + Prophetic flamespeaker)
Normally I wouldnt report on a simple SE especially when you look at the MUs i faced, but the Bant control deck was running green for courser plus a lot of rams.
He had a draw of 2 rams and 2 coursers in one game but I still 2-0'd him. My conclusion is that the rams are pretty much a worse version of the shit-stick that monoB used to run for 5 minutes until they realized it is shit.
At no point did I feel that the 1 point + X lifegain per turn that he was able to manage had any relevant board impact at all. It prevented him from playing early detention spheres and holding up counters so I could simply run out one threat after the other.
In all matchups Eidolon was great to game breaking. I was on the draw in 6 of 7 games and had no issues being ahead or making sure,
that I was ahead when Eidolon was cast. Be it on turn 2 or turn 5-X. Prophetic flamespeaker was shit tbh. That type of deck, when you start putting in TS and dragon mantle, get's 2 for 1'd on almost every turn. Sure, he managed to get me in one game with pumped doublestrike, but I wasn't far off stabilizing the next turn. This has pretty much shut the door on me giving flamespeaker a go.
I was running the old mana base with 2 GG, 1 Temple of malice and 1 Temple of silence and was happy, just as I have been the past weeks. No rush to spend 20 tickets on mana confluence for me.
I changed MDU's list with 2x flames instead of searing blood, 2x reprisal and 2x mortars, 1x WT, 1x Chandra, no banishing light and the rest pretty much the same. Thanks for providing a great shell mate!
Normally I wouldnt report on a simple SE especially when you look at the MUs i faced, but the Bant control deck was running green for courser plus a lot of rams.
He had a draw of 2 rams and 2 coursers in one game but I still 2-0'd him. My conclusion is that the rams are pretty much a worse version of the shit-stick that monoB used to run for 5 minutes until they realized it is shit.
At no point did I feel that the 1 point + X lifegain per turn that he was able to manage had any relevant board impact at all. It prevented him from playing early detention spheres and holding up counters so I could simply run out one threat after the other.
In all matchups Eidolon was great to game breaking. I was on the draw in 6 of 7 games and had no issues being ahead or making sure,
that I was ahead when Eidolon was cast. Be it on turn 2 or turn 5-X. Prophetic flamespeaker was shit tbh. That type of deck, when you start putting in TS and dragon mantle, get's 2 for 1'd on almost every turn. Sure, he managed to get me in one game with pumped doublestrike, but I wasn't far off stabilizing the next turn. This has pretty much shut the door on me giving flamespeaker a go.
I was running the old mana base with 2 GG, 1 Temple of malice and 1 Temple of silence and was happy, just as I have been the past weeks. No rush to spend 20 tickets on mana confluence for me.
I changed MDU's list with 2x flames instead of searing blood, 2x reprisal and 2x mortars, 1x WT, 1x Chandra, no banishing light and the rest pretty much the same. Thanks for providing a great shell mate!
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Also
Also: If they have ram in the SB, they dont have Fiendslayer Paladin. At least in all the decks I've seen on MTGTOP8. And when I ask myself what I would rather face now or in the future, it's hands down the ram. Especially if they really are that hive-minded and all start running ram (which they aren't), then I'll simply up my W/T count from 1 to 2 or three and consider 1 in the MD. So am I missing something or is ram overrated? especially since FSP is a much much better blocker.
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I'd rather play against Ram than FSP or Courser, but they're all annoying. They make Viashino Fistblade no longer viable whereas you could run that into the other two.
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One thing I want to mention about why I think I struggled with the junk matchup. Post board I was 2 Banishing Light and 4 chains. Courser was the biggest problem as when you exiled it, they had SO many ways to bring it back. I think 4 Mizzium Mortars is definitely the right call. I don't think the 2nd Banishing Light (taking up a SB slot) is needed, I am currently not sure if the first one is either.
yurp yurp
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Sure, but have you been playing viashino at all lately? I sideboarded him in about 3 times in the last 4 weeks and was always disappointed since a lot of BOs are still around. Ram at least does zero damage to our creature and we can lightning strike it away, if we are running a ground-creature plan, depending on what we have in hand. and even if you dont have a LS, you can at least still attack with 2 creatures or vaults and get some damage in. Courser and FSP stop any ground aggro combo + removal, unless we are willingI'd rather play against Ram than FSP or Courser, but they're all annoying. They make Viashino Fistblade no longer viable whereas you could run that into the other two.
to 2 for 1 ourselves or have boros charm+ threat vs FSP in hand AND he is tapped out (barring the usual mizziums or chained).
JPablo was running 4 FSPs in his SB the last time he had a top 8 deck on MTGO (before JOU). now THAT is scary. I shit my pants thinking about facing multiple FSPs in game 2. Especially since I stopped running my 2 of anger with JOU.
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I face enough weenie decks it seems that I probably will be hard pressed to go down to 1-0 Chandra. I probably don't need her to win those matches but it helps.
I swapped my videos to Youtube. These are ones I already posted previously but got lost on Twitch. Nothing earthshaking in the builds.
I swapped my videos to Youtube. These are ones I already posted previously but got lost on Twitch. Nothing earthshaking in the builds.
Pre Journey burn
All I did was grab 2 banishing light and a reprisal for Journey since the prices were still high since it was only the prerelease stage.Post Journey burn with Banishing light
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[deck]
Creatures (8)
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Satyr Firedancer
Lands (24)
8 Mountain
2 Mana Confluence
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
Spells (28)
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Searing Blood
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix
SB
4 FDS
4 Toil
2 Wear
1 Reprisal
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Mortars
1 Burning Earth[/deck]
Creatures (8)
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Satyr Firedancer
Lands (24)
8 Mountain
2 Mana Confluence
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
Spells (28)
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Searing Blood
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix
SB
4 FDS
4 Toil
2 Wear
1 Reprisal
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Mortars
1 Burning Earth[/deck]
yurp yurp
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I was also considering it with the justification that it strengthens our matchup against Big Boros (Red Devotion) and Weenie strats.I thought of this sunday and then saw it on the list from the TCG 5k in mass. IS nyx-fleece RAM tech for us if the mirror becomes prevalent?
However our Weenie matchup is already a freeroll, and Big Boros isn't popular enough to devote slots to.
I do like it more than Peak Eruption though, which I do run in Burn heavy metas.
If I go to states this weekend I'll be sleeving them up in-case I decide to include them.
To be fair, it only needs to gain 2-4 life to refund it's investment and after that it gives you inevitability.I truly doubt it. Burn mirrors don'
t go that many turns. That said, go test it if you want.
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Technically, Mana Confluence is good when you have to hit RR on T2 (like when you run Eidolon or Ash). According to Frank Karsten, you need 13 Red Sources that come into play untapped. If you only run YP (and thus Mutavault counts towards those 13 untapped sources) then it's not strictly necessary. With Eidolon in the SB it's a borderline case, I guess.I went 3-1 with my wacky list during the DE (I was getting land **** left and right D:), I'll be scrapping this experiment from this point on and switching too the Z land base though I still debating the Mana Confluence vs Boros Gate war (I have accepted that more then 4 non-red lands is incorrect with blood and revel though).
We're playing a deck which taps out often and rarely leaves behind ongoing pressure (unless CP or YP sticks ) is 2x Mana Confluence correct or should they be RW Gates?
Maybe it should be 1/1 or 0/2 choices.... choices..... (I'll love to hear your thoughts
on this guys).
MTGO handle: Clemens268
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At 2-4 life, you've only caught back up on cardsI thought of this sunday and then saw it on the list from the TCG 5k in mass. IS nyx-fleece RAM tech for us if the mirror becomes prevalent?
To be fair, it only needs to gain 2-4 life to refund it's investment and after that it gives you inevitability.I truly doubt it. Burn mirrors don't go that many turns. That said, go test it if you want.
since it's effectively negate at that point. If it's blocking creatures though, it's much more profitable. Allows tapping out and not getting cracked by mutavaults a possibility I guess. Like I said, test it. I wouldn't do it as an audible though.
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Dictate is my next to test.So how has eidolon of the great revel worked out for everyone? I was happy with 4 in the main but I see that some of you are running 2 in the main or 1 in the main and the rest in the sideboard? Also has anyone tried out dictate of the twin gods yet?
So, you've tested with 4 revels against aggro decks and still found it favorable? That's the one I had the hardest time understanding.
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What the-... Red Devotion one of our best matchups? Are we talking about the deck that overloads on threats that are hard to burn out (Boros Reckoner, Frostburn Weird, Stormbreath Dragon), can easily race us if we don't control their board, and has nut hands like Double BTE into Nykthos shenanigans?Also, this deck needs zero hedges for the Red devotion matchup. That's one of your best matchups.
I think I've heard every deck besides Hexproof get called a bye or a best matchup in this thread.
I think burn needs zero hedges against Red Devo because it's not popular.
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What the-... Red Devotion one of our best matchups? Are we talking about the deck that overloads on threats that are hard to burn out (Boros Reckoner, Frostburn Weird, Stormbreath Dragon), can easily race us if we don't control their board, and has nut hands like Double BTE into Nykthos shenanigans?Also, this deck needs zero hedges for the Red devotion matchup. That's one of your best matchups.
I think I've heard every deck besides Hexproof get called a bye or a best matchup in this thread.
I think burn needs zero hedges against Red Devo because it's not popular.[/quote:
2evutxt3]
I'm one of like, 3 people who knows what he's talking about when it comes to Red devotion and Burn is the matchup I'd least like to face...ever.
And yes, burn has lots of great matchups. The problem with the deck is when it's opponents draw certain cards in the right order, the burn player struggles to catch up because it relies on a critical mass of cards all doing the same thing.
Devotion red struggles because it can't present any disruption and in a pure race situation, burn's faster with the option of disrupting the opponent if it wants/needs to. The devotion red deck gets rolling by getting 4 devotion on board and either powering up nykthos or slamming fanatics. Unfortunately, all the cheap stuff generally has 2 toughness and burn plays cards like shock and seering blood which are pretty savage beatings against my strategy especially in the games where you draw nykthos, but can't get your devotion above four making that land either colorless or a mulligan.
I could go on
and on, but it'd be easier if you just take my word for it. Hell, I disagree with Z a lot more lately then I normally do and I even think he says this is burns best matchup.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.
Beatdown is hard, though.
Patrick chapin
Beatdown is hard, though.
Patrick chapin
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Consensus is something you're unlikely to find, but overall I think the public opinion is that the card is good against mono-black and control which are basically the 2 most important decks in the format so wherever you put it in your deck, it probably deserves a spot in your 75.
THIS IS NOT MY OPINON, I'VE DONE ZERO TESTING WITH THE CARD.
THIS IS NOT MY OPINON, I'VE DONE ZERO TESTING WITH THE CARD.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.
Beatdown is hard, though.
Patrick chapin
Beatdown is hard, though.
Patrick chapin
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- BrainsickHater
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I'm trying out Sideboarding Dictate and Eidolon of the Great Revel. Dictate is for MB and Eidolon is for control. I think Eidolon is fine because it's a dude that will almost always do 2 despite Blind Obedience, and he seems pretty stellar against the control decks boarding in ram, as they also tend to board for less removal and more creatures. Plus, he is a continuous source of damage against their continuous source of lifegain.
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