R/b Aggro aka "Dos Rakis"

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R/b Aggro aka "Dos Rakis"

Postby Valdarith » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:59 pm

Introduction
Have you ever been playing your red deck and wanted a little more power out of your cards? Ever sat helpless as your midrange opponent resolved fatty after fatty while you stared at your Rakdos Cacklers and Burning-Tree Emissaries in disgust? Ever wish your creatures were burn spells?

Last Standard season the Fires of Salvation brewed a deck we affectionately called “Dos Rakis.” We set out to splash black in our red decks to combine the speed of red with the power that the black card pool had to offer. IT. WAS. GLORIOUS. Falkenrath Aristocrat and Thundermaw Hellkite made my opponents cry for days, and others around me refused to believe it was a deck until they got their face kicked in by it. Though it remained under the radar for the entirety of INN/RTR Standard, those of us in FoS that piloted the deck will always remember the joy we had playing it.
n
This primer looks to continue the tradition of Dos Rakis in the RTR/THS Standard environment. If you like fast creatures and powerful spells, look no further.

Why play RB?
As Tim Taylor would say, MOAR POWA! Black introduces an extremely powerful card pool to answer problems that red decks typical have difficulties fighting. See a lot of GW midrange decks in your meta? Doom Blade scoffs at your Loxodon Smiter. Sylvan Caryatid got ya down? I’d like to see it block my Spike Jester. Desecration Demons flying everywhere? Dreadbore would like to have a word with you. Many of the problems you may have can be answered with the black splash.

But isn’t white the better splash?
There are pros and cons to the black or white splash. Read my article on black vs white splashes (viewtopic.php?f=108&t=2044) and decide for yourself which is the better option.

Analyzing the black card pool
If you take a close look at the card pool for black, you will notice that it tends push the RB archetype toward creature-based decks. Spike Jester, Rakdos Shred-Freak, Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch, and [card]Mogis’s Marauder[/card] are all very good reasons to be in black. That so many of the black spells like Dreadbore and Doom Blade interact with creatures only solidifies this notion. A RB deck wants to play fast, powerful creatures while keeping the opposing player’s board clear of creatures that threaten ours.

The cards

CREATURES
1 cmc
Rakdos Cackler – an auto include. Can’t beat a 2/2 for one mana. Immune to Doom Blade
and Ultimate Price. Castable on both red and black mana. Has haste with Exava on the field.
Firedrinker Satyr – another two power one drop. Very good card in every matchup except for R/x mirrors.
2 cmc
Ash Zealot – a 2/2 first striker with haste? Where do I sign? Her hate ability is irrelevant in Standard now that the flashback mechanic has rotated out, but she is very well-positioned against the midrange decks of the format.
Rakdos Shred-Freak – not a terribly exciting card at first glance, once you look at the card pool you realize that it has a lot going for it. First, it can be cast off red or black mana, which is huge. Secondly, it has haste, making it a decent topdeck. Third, it is black, which means it can’t be hit by Doom Blade. Fourth, it’s red, which means it can’t be hit by Ultimate Price. Fifth, it offers
two devotion to red and black, which plays well with [card]Mogis’s Marauder[/card] and Fanatic of Mogis. That’s a lot of reasons to play this card in your deck.
Spike Jester – three power and haste for two mana. Auto four-of.
Rix Maadi Guildmage – don’t laugh at this card. It does a lot of work against midrange decks and is a legitimate mana sink in a more grindy deck. If Lotleth Troll ever becomes a thing this season, this card could be the answer.
Tymaret, the Murder King – aka “the Burger King” (an uncanny resemblance). The recursion is a wonderful thing for a grindy deck, and he gives a lot of reach as well. If you are running a lot of threatens in your deck like Act of Treason, he offers tremendous value. That said, his ability is mana intensive, and he’s pretty much a build-around card.
3 cmc:
[card]Chandra’s Phoenix[/card] – anything that offers card advantage over time ought to be valued very strongly in Dos Rakis. Running this card does push you to want to run a number of effects that recur it, so keep that in mind when including it in your deck.
Hellhole Flailer – four power for three mana is a good deal, and it’s sacrifice ability offers some reach. He trades with Loxodon Smiter and straight up kills Fiendslayer Paladin, Voice of Resurgence, Frostburn Weird, Nightveil Specter, and Gray Merchant of Asphodel. A card to keep in mind depending on how the meta shapes up and what kind of build you’re going with.
[card]Mogis’s Marauders[/card] – an incredibly potent card against all strategies in Standard. A 2/2 haste for 3 and one-use intimidate is not good. A 2/2 haste for 3 that gives himself and your other dudes intimidate for one turn is insane. Can lead to some pretty crazy alpha strikes and rage-inducing moments for
your helpless opponent. It is a build-around card though since you want a lot of cards that have black mana costs, but you can make it work in this red-heavy archetype between Rakdos Cackler, Rakdos Shred-Freak, Exava, and Spike Jester.
4 cmc
Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch – I was a huge proponent of this card when it was first spoiled. I just knew it would be the replacement for Falkenrath Aristocrat and I gobbled up four copies immediately. She really hasn’t taken off in Standard so far beyond the BR Mogis deck, but that’s not because the card is underpowered. It doesn’t die to Doom Blade, Ultimate Price, or Lightning Strike. It beats almost every creature in Standard and will definitely beat Desecration Demon with burn help. It enables your other unleash creatures. Amazing card and criminal not to run if you’re in black.
Fanatic of Mogis – if you’re running cards like Ash Zealot and Rakdos Shred-Freak he can do
a ton of damage, but he competes with Exava and Chandra, Pyromaster so finding room for him can be difficult.
5cmc
Stormbreath Dragon – our new Thundermaw Hellkite, though it has one less power and toughness, doesn’t ping fliers on ETB, is pro-white, and is a mana sink. Perfect card for big Dos Rakis builds.
SPELLS
1 cmc
Shock – two damage for one mana. Not a very good spell in a vacuum, but amazing in aggro-heavy metas.
2 cmc
Lightning Strike – this season’s Searing Spear. Run four.
Magma Jet – Shock with scry 2. The damage is underwhelming especially at 2cmc, but the scry 2 is quite valuable. In a deck that values consistency, Magma Jet will help get you there. If you’re running Chandra’s Phoenix you will
want this as your second burn spell.
Dreadbore – the #1 reason to splash black. Deals with everything in the competitive meta except for Master of Waves and Blood Baron of Vizkopa. While Doom Blade can deal with Master of Waves, the big advantage for Dreadbore is that it isn’t dead in any matchup since it can kill planeswalkers and black creatures. Doom Blade, on the other hand, is absolutely dead vs UW, Esper, and Mono Black.
Doom Blade – the #2 reason to splash black. Red decks are slightly unfavored against Mono Blue and this card helps tremendously in that matchup. What split of Dreadbore and Doom Blade you go with is ultimately dependent on the amount of Mono Blue you expect to see.
3cmc
Nothing of significance.
4cmc
Chandra, Pyromaster – you’re in a creature-centric archetype, so why wouldn’t you run Thunder Thighs? We are fortunate
to have finally received a playable red planeswalker, and Chandra is VERY good in this deck. She effectively gives all your burn spells one extra damage, can ping x/1s and falter fatties, can draw you an extra card every turn, and win you the game with her ultimate. Dos Rakis is probably the best shell to run her in at the moment.
Xcmc
[card]Rakdos’s Return[/card] – good card in bigger builds vs midrange and control, but underwhelming against aggro decks that tend to have a depleted hand by the time you cast this card.
SIDEBOARD

Dark Betrayal – excellent vs Mono Black and black-heavy variants.
Duress and Thoughtseize – the former is good against control and the latter is good against control and midrange. That said, I’d rather just run Doom Blade and Dreadbore against midrange than Thoughtseize.
[card]Rakdos
Charm[/card] – if graveyard-based strategies become a thing this will see play. Can also do work against a big Master of Waves resolution but the board should never get so large that you can kill them with Rakdos Charm unless you’re running a burn deck.
Devour Flesh – if hexproof becomes a big thing, this is your best answer. I would never waste sideboard space for this card with the hexproof deck at its current popularity though. It’s just not a deck to be concerned about at the moment.
Skullcrack – in burn archetypes this is a good answer, but often times Dos Rakis cannot afford to keep mana open for this card. Consider alternative solutions…
[card]Toil / Trouble[/card] - …like this one. What do you do to a durdling control player waiting for turn six before he casts his precious Sphinx’s Revelation? Just go f%&$ing kill him and watch the blue mage tears roll. On turn three this will be doing 6 or 7 damage
depending on play or draw, and I have lived the dream and dealt 11 with it for the win.
Augur Spree – a cute answer to Lotleth Troll.
Slaughter Games – name Sphinx’s Revelation, extend hand.
Example Decklist
I built this deck as a response to a midrange and control heavy metagame. I have had quite a bit of success with it.

[deck]
Creatures (23)
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Spike Jester
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra’s Phoenix
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch

Spells (14)
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
3 Dreadbore
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (23)
4 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Blood Crypt
4 Swamp
11 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3 Dark Betrayal
4 Shock
4 Doom Blade
1 Dreadbore
3 Toil / Trouble
[/deck]

Here’s my sideboard strategy against the most popular decks in the meta:

R/x
-4 Rakdos Cackler, -4 Rakdos Shred-Freak, +4 Shock, +4 Doom Blade
I like
playing the control role against red decks. The strategy is to 1-for-1 them until you can get a Phoenix or Chandra online. With twelve burn spells postboard alongside Chandra this strategy is quite effective. You’re effectively running 19 removal spells in your deck postboard so be patient with your plays. If your opponent is running Phoenix as well then it basically comes down to who draws more Phoenixes and who has more power cards. R/x has a very hard time dealing with Exava except for Mizzium Mortars or a conceded 2-for-1.

U/W/x
-3 Dreadbore, +3 Toil / Trouble
Dreadbore is a decent card against U/W/x in game one, but swapping for Toil / Trouble increases our speed and offers a huge haymaker should the game go late. Our opponent will often have a grip of 5-6 cards, making Toil / Trouble a functional Dreadbore anyway.
Note that I have tried cards like Duress and Slaughter Games against this archetype, but ultimately found a preference for proactive cards that were good
topdecks in every phase of the game.

Mono Black
-3 Chandra, Pyromaster, -1 Magma Jet, +3 Dark Betrayal, +1 Dreadbore
We are basically reducing our chances of Phoenix recursion by siding in removal that can deal with Desecration Demon and Gray Merchant of Asphodel. One great thing about this deck is the number of creatures immune to Doom Blade and Ultimate Price, and these cards are only useful against Phoenix and Ash Zealot. I’ve found Chandra to be underwhelming in this matchup because of Desecration Demon and Hero’s Downfall. She was usually only good for one falter and then immediately killed. Dark Betrayal actually kills all of their creatures and does so at instant speed for one mana.

G/x midrange
-4 Rakdos Cackler, +4 Doom Blade
We want to keep our Magma Jets and Lightning Strikes for reach as well as potential blowouts from Ash Zealot and Exava. Doom Blade does serious work against G/x, answering cards like Scavenging Ooze or a flashed-in
Boon Satyr or Advent of the Wurm. This deck is heavily favored against G/x midrange postboard and is a big reason I built the deck. The only cards you should really worry about are in the G/b variant. Lotleth Troll and Reaper of the Wilds can be pretty scary, and in this scenario you want one less Doom Blade for the fourth Dreadbore to be able to hit Reaper while your opponent is tapped out. If you have a lot of BG in your meta, consider Augur Spree as a cute answer to Lotleth Troll.

Mono Blue
-4 Rakdos Shred-Freak, +4 Doom Blade
Save your Doom Blades for Master of Waves unless you can keep the board clear. A resolved Master on an empty board is no big deal, especially with Chandra on the field, so keep this is in mind when deciding when and how to use your removal. I take Shred-Freak out because it matches up poorly against Judge’s Familiar and Nightveil Specter.
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Postby Purp » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:33 pm

I actually kind of like the look of the list. Is there anyway the guildgates could become Godless Shrines or Temple of Silence?
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Postby Valdarith » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:10 pm

You need 18 red sources to be able to cast Ash Zealot on turn two, so not in my list. Maybe if you're taking out Ash Zealot and bringing in Boros Reckoner, but I don't like Reckoner in RB. You're playing RB for speed, and Reckoner slows you down. Not to mention that it competes with Chandra's Phoenix.
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Postby Zooligan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:15 pm

I like the idea of Slaughter Games vs Sphinx's Rev, but it seems like it could also be good against cards like:
Blood Baron
Aetherling
Gary (monoB)
MOW(monoU)
Boon Satyr (monoG)
Jace, Elspeth, Domri, etc <- basically whatever PW is costing you games in other MU

The more I think about it, pretty much every MU has that one card (maybe two) you wish would just go away. Is SG the genie in the bottle, ready to make that wish come true?
Last edited by Zooligan on Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:17 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Postby Purp » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:16 pm

Anyway we can get some videos of you playing this list Val?
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Postby dpaine88 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:22 pm

After playing Dos Rakis extensivly last season, I am so pumped to see it live on!

Rcraspy and me were talking and he came up with this list (not mine in any way). I wasn't sure if he was gonna post it here or not but I really like it so I am doing the deed myself.

[deck]
Creature (23)
4x Ash Zealot
4x Chandra's Phoenix
3x Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4x Firedrinker Satyr
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Stormbreath Dragon
Sorcery (3)
3x Dreadbore
Instant (8)
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
Land (24)
4x Blood Crypt
14x Mountain
2x Rakdos Guildgate
4x Temple of Silence
Sideboard (15)
4x Boros Reckoner
1x Dreadbore
3x Skullcrack
4x Thoughtseize
3x Ultimate Price
[/deck]

It is certainly a red heavy variant - but thats just how Dos Rakis started out before we discovered Knight of Infamy.

We were going back and forth a little bit.

I wanted to discuss a few
potential inclusions.

25th land - Really think we need this with 5 - 4drops and 4- 5drops.
Spike Jester - How's he compare with Ash Zealot?
Thoughtseize in main deck - just feels ver very strong to me.
Rakdos Return in SB- this card is just insane
Maindeck Answer to Master of Waves - This deck has none currently.
Magma Jet - Is it needed or could we run Doom Blade/ Ultimate Price/ Mizzium instead.
Burn baby burn!

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Postby LaZerBurn » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:42 pm

Thanks for an excellent post Valdarith :)
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Postby Tyrael » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:55 pm

Magma Jet is out of place here imo, since you just want to go as fast and as hard as possible
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Postby Valdarith » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:58 pm

After playing Dos Rakis extensivly last season, I am so pumped to see it live on!

Rcraspy and me were talking and he came up with this list (not mine in any way). I wasn't sure if he was gonna post it here or not but I really like it so I am doing the deed myself.

[deck]
Creature (23)
4x Ash Zealot
4x Chandra's Phoenix
3x Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4x Firedrinker Satyr
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Stormbreath Dragon
Sorcery (3)
3x Dreadbore
Instant (8)
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
Land (24)
4x Blood Crypt
14x Mountain
2x Rakdos Guildgate
4x Temple of Silence
Sideboard (15)
4x Boros Reckoner
1x Dreadbore
3x Skullcrack
4x Thoughtseize
3x Ultimate Price
[/deck]

It is certainly a red heavy variant -
but thats just how Dos Rakis started out before we discovered Knight of Infamy.

We were going back and forth a little bit.

I wanted to discuss a few potential inclusions.

25th land - Really think we need this with 5 - 4drops and 4- 5drops.
Spike Jester - How's he compare with Ash Zealot?
Thoughtseize in main deck - just feels ver very strong to me.
Rakdos Return in SB- this card is just insane
Maindeck Answer to Master of Waves - This deck has none currently.
Magma Jet - Is it needed or could we run Doom Blade/ Ultimate Price/ Mizzium instead.
1) Definitely want 25 land in that list. I'd want two Mutavault honestly.
2) It depends. Spike Jester is the bees knees against Sylvan Caryatid, but is terrible against Frostburn Weird and Judge's Familiar.
3) I don't like Thoughtseize in this archetype. I want all of my cards to be strong topdecks. That's what makes this archetype so enticing. There is no worse feeling than topdecking a Thoughtseize on turn 10.
4) In any
deck running 24+ lands I put a lot of stock into Rakdos's Return in the sideboard.
5) Doom Blade is the perfect hedge against Master of Waves that can interact with a lot of other decks. This is what I was eluding to earlier when I mentioned the split between Doom Blade and Dreadbore. On MODO, I would probably go for a 2-2 split and cut a Magma Jet out of my deck.
6) I like at least eight burn spells in my Dos Rakis decks as I really value the reach.

Re: videos of me piloting the deck. I'll see what I can do. I do have one video on Twitch but it's not a good example as I had an uncharacteristically bad run the night I streamed.
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Postby Pedros » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:08 pm

After playing Dos Rakis extensivly last season, I am so pumped to see it live on!

Rcraspy and me were talking and he came up with this list (not mine in any way). I wasn't sure if he was gonna post it here or not but I really like it so I am doing the deed myself.

[deck]
Creature (23)
4x Ash Zealot
4x Chandra's Phoenix
3x Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4x Firedrinker Satyr
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Stormbreath Dragon
Sorcery (3)
3x Dreadbore
Instant (8)
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
Land (24)
4x Blood Crypt
14x Mountain
2x Rakdos Guildgate
4x Temple of Silence
Sideboard (15)
4x Boros Reckoner
1x Dreadbore
3x Skullcrack
4x Thoughtseize
3x Ultimate Price
[/deck]

It is certainly a red
heavy variant - but thats just how Dos Rakis started out before we discovered Knight of Infamy.

We were going back and forth a little bit.

I wanted to discuss a few potential inclusions.

25th land - Really think we need this with 5 - 4drops and 4- 5drops.
Spike Jester - How's he compare with Ash Zealot?
Thoughtseize in main deck - just feels ver very strong to me.
Rakdos Return in SB- this card is just insane
Maindeck Answer to Master of Waves - This deck has none currently.
Magma Jet - Is it needed or could we run Doom Blade/ Ultimate Price/ Mizzium instead.
Really like this idea, I posted in some places about RB have good cards to play sth like Dos Rakis - big rakdos but not a lot of people answered my calls.

I see no mutavaults. With no mutavaults in the deck, I see no point of not playing true rakdos deck with mountains and swamps:

- allows us to play hero's downfall as a maindeck removal of choice - which solves master problem.
- spike yester is imo better vs
current metagame than ash zealot, and is easier to cast
- Pack rat is a solid choice in 2 drop slot, as unanswered just ends the game (and have big sign kill me)
- Erebos is somehow better than skullcrack, as it is permanent lifegain prevention that draws you cards.
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Postby rcwraspy » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Quick note on the list DPaine added that I had brewed up. The Temple of Silence is in there instead of Mutavaults on purpose.

Without the R/B scrylands the deck lacks some consistency, so I opted to put the B/W scrylands instead, with the added benefit of being able to cast Reckoner from the board the way many Dos Rakis lists played last season.

So in essence, Temple of Silence took Mutavault's "can't tap for red" slot in the list. I'd only add 1x Mutavault to it as the 25th land if you really want to go to 25 lands. But with 4x Temple of Silence and 4x Magma Jet, I don't think a 25th land is necessary.

Also remember that we no longer have Mutavault's hidden mode of saccing to Falkenrath in the Dos Rakis builds. I'm valuing the consistency that Temple of Silence brings to the table over the resiliency that Mutavault brings in that build.

4x Thoughtseize is in the board because this was a list I
brewed in response to a comment DPaine made. DPaine wants to run Thoughtseize, so I included it. If you don't run it, I'd definitely want Rakdos's Return, Doom Blade, and Erebos in there in some quantities.
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Postby magicdownunder » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:05 am

Don't you guys need answers for BW decks?
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Postby dpaine88 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:14 am

Don't you guys need answers for BW decks?

The midrange or aggro ones?
Burn baby burn!

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Postby magicdownunder » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:18 am

Don't you guys need answers for BW decks?

The midrange or aggro ones?
Midrange with BloodBaron and Ghost dads
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Postby Valdarith » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:22 am

BW is not a deck.
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Postby rcwraspy » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:27 am

BW is not a deck.
Well, it just won a GP. So people will try to make it one for a while.
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Postby Valdarith » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:41 am

Okay then.

Dark Betrayal for Ghost Dad. Red cards for Blood Baron.

I've played BW decks with my brew. It was too easy to beat.
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Postby rcwraspy » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:48 am

Sorry, I mis-read. The list that won the GP was a BW Control list, not Midrange. It didn't have Ghost Dad. MB creature were Demon, Blood Baron, Pack Rat (all 4x) and 1x Sin Collector. Then kill spells and 6 disruption spells main. Lifebane Zombie, Dark Betrayal, and filler in the side.
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Postby Midnight_v » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:02 am

Sorry, I mis-read. The list that won the GP was a BW Control list, not Midrange. It didn't have Ghost Dad. MB creature were Demon, Blood Baron, Pack Rat (all 4x) and 1x Sin Collector. Then kill spells and 6 disruption spells main. Lifebane Zombie, Dark Betrayal, and filler in the side.
I agree.
BW is not a deck.
No, sadly it really is.
You really can't just ignore that it, because it put up 12th in Gp vienna , and that inspired a first place yesterday here in Dallas.
So now its "real" deck and people are playing it.

Here's the list from yesterday
4 Godless Shrine
4 Mutavault
1 Plains
12 Swamp
4 Temple of Silence
4 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Desecration
Demon
4 Pack Rat
1 Sin Collector
4 Devour Flesh
2 Duress
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Last Breath
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ultimate Price
4 Underworld Connections
SB: 3 Dark Betrayal
SB: 1 Doom Blade
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 3 Lifebane Zombie
SB: 3 Pharika's Cure
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Shrivel
SB: 2 Sin Collector
and the Vienna list only changes like 1 sideboard card or some such.

That isn't to say your answer isn't the same, but just so we're all adequately informed.

The deck plays a lot like machine head "classic aggro control deck" and has game vs aggro and control.

The other deck right now is some odd U/W control that wins with 1 Elspeth... seriously. In Gp: dallas second, and in the Scgopen: Oakland, both this weekend.

The thing that really stands out to me is that no on in this r/b thread has mortars backed at all, so I'm not sure what the plan is if he hits the ground. Cool though that slaughter games gets him right the hell out.

Slaughter Games is on
of the main reasons, I secretly want to play this deck.
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Postby rcwraspy » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:13 am

Yeah my SB would likely have 4x Reckoner, x Mortars, x Terrors, 2x Erebos, 2x Rakdos's Return, and then fill in the blanks.
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Postby Zooligan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:18 am

Slaughter Games is on of the main reasons, I secretly want to play this deck.
Is there at least one card in every major deck (that "is" a deck ;)) whose absence would make R/b MU better? If so, wouldn't MD Slaughter Games make sense?

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Postby Valdarith » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:56 am

I have limited experience against a similar deck and all I can say is that I have fared extremely well against it. Blood Baron tends to come down too late and as long as I sandbag and Ash Zealot and any burn spell he really can't do much with him. Obzedat is annoying but many times my opponent had been forced to keep him on board simply because he's so low on life and needs a blocker. Postboard he's very easy to deal with.
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Postby Pedros » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:11 am

Also Erebos in sb and just laught at baron. Plus mortars are still a card - should act as a sweeper in this kind of build.

Will post deck in some time that I am thinking about, need some opisnions. Is 1 drop (cackler) good enought if we want to play true 2 colors deck? Dont want toadd 1 drops that are cast by ~12 sources only.
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Postby LP, of the Fires » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:13 pm

BW decks have been around for the entitiy of the format in all forms. Do not speak from ignorance. Like, if you have success on Modo without daily events around, that's whatever, but don't suggest decks for people to play in big paper events when you don't even know the metagame.

Post responsibly.

Luckily, vs. the GP winning list, the matchup should be fine, to good. Just make sure to sideboard some number of mortars. The Orhzov weenie list is basically white weenie with removal and hand disruption. That deck makes flames a very attractive card. If you play against it, it's good to know that they have 2/3 sideboard dark betrayels which they may or may not bring in depending on what they see(shouldn't be to relevant vs. you and exava's not even great in the matchup so she CAN be boarded out).
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Beatdown is hard, though.


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Postby MattT » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:09 pm

Also Erebos in sb and just laught at baron. Plus mortars are still a card - should act as a sweeper in this kind of build.

Will post deck in some time that I am thinking about, need some opisnions. Is 1 drop (cackler) good enought if we want to play true 2 colors deck? Dont want toadd 1 drops that are cast by ~12 sources only.
I´m theorizing that if you forgo 1 drops altogether and raise the curve to 5, Underworld Cerberus would work well with a complete Hasty creature suite.

Great primer Val!

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Postby magicdownunder » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:14 pm

If your going to forgo 1-Drops just play BR control - its a solid deck.
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Postby Tyrael » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:58 pm

I will after we get the rakdos scrylands!
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Postby Pedros » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:06 pm

No forget 1 drops, just nt to overload with them. 4 cackers seems good as they are cast with all the mana.

I am just thinking you cant have stable 2 color manabase with 1 color 1 drops most of the time.

Btw what do you guys think about Hellhole flailer?
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Postby Platypus » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:44 pm

Hellhole Flailer has been tried every now and then during the last year, but he's always been found too slow. I doubt anything has changed.
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Postby Valdarith » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:47 pm

I would rather have Boros Reckoner in almost every matchup but B/x.
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Postby MattT » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:39 pm

If your going to forgo 1-Drops just play BR control - its a solid deck.
That´s a totally different deck. As the OT deck has 4 1-drops, which equals seeing one in the starting hand at about half the games (and for negligible amounts at T3), the ROI is debatable. -4 Cackler, +1 Mountain, +2 Dogs and say +1 Dreadbore. Now you´re at 19 recursive Hasty guys.

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Postby Pedros » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:49 pm

OT? ROI?
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Postby Purp » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:54 pm

Return of Investment.
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Postby Valdarith » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:42 pm

I've actually considered taking out the Cacklers entirely for more powerful cards. But then I'd want to go the Pyromancer route and that would change the deck entirely. One alternative line of thinking is to take out the Phoenix and Magma Jets and shove in Mogis's Marauder and increase the Doom Blade/Dreadbore count.
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Postby Valdarith » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:49 pm

Maybe this:

[deck]
4 rakdos shred-freak
4 spike jester
4 ash zealot
4 chandra's phoenix
3 exava, rakdos blood witch
3 stormbreath dragon

4 magma jet
4 lightning strike
2 dreadbore
2 doom blade
2 chandra, pyromaster

4 blood crypt
4 rakdos guildgate
3 swamp
10 mountain
3 mutavault
[/deck]
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Postby Zooligan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:53 pm

Underworld Cerberus might go better in the Dragon slot - evasive-ish, not vunerable to Doom Blade or Ultimate Price, stops Whip and the Ooze abilities, takes out multiple Elspeth or MOW tokens...

Your black-playing opponents will spend their non-conditional removal getting rid of Freaks, Jesters, and Witches while you are quietly building up to 5 mana. Then they're facing down a 6/6 nigh-unblockable beast with a fist full of Doom Blades and Ultimate Prices. Could be sweet!

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Postby InflatablePie » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:51 am

I like the idea of Cerberus, but he's a bit slow without something like Hammer.

If I were testing, I'd take the example list in the OP and change the following:
-1 Chandra, -1 Magma Jet, +2 Stormbreath Dragon
Chandra is for when games go longer, but it's still a solid card in this deck. I'd rather have dual dragons to mimic the spirit of old Dos Rakis, and the only other card I can think of to drop is Magma Jet (maybe Dreadbore).

I'm also tempted to drop a Dreadbore (maybe Jet; see above) MD, either for a Doom Blade or a MD Slaughter Games.

SB:
3x Doom Blade (pretty good against non-mono-B decks)
2x Mortars (because fuck you BBoV)
2x Skullcrack (because fuck you lifegain)
1x Erebos (also fuck you lifegain. Could be 'crack #3, depending how much you hate D-Sphere)
2x Dark Betrayal (if expecting mono-B, could maybe run as a 1-of "in-case" card if not)
2x Thoughtseize (seems good against control
and midrange decks that you lack answers for. whip, BBoV, etc.)
1x Flames of the Firebrand (hedge against x/1 weenie decks)
1x Slaughter Games (catch-all and my 'pet card' for RB)
1x anything (either bump up a number somewhere or add something like a Dreadbore)

Disclaimer: I am bad at deckbuilding. especially SBs where I just want to cram a ton of stuff in.
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Postby MattT » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:27 am

OT? ROI?
Original Topic, which is wrong. OP for Original Post had been better. Apologies for the acronym soup :)

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Postby Tyrael » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:02 am

Underworld Cerberus might go better in the Dragon slot - evasive-ish, not vunerable to Doom Blade or Ultimate Price, stops Whip and the Ooze abilities, takes out multiple Elspeth or MOW tokens...

Your black-playing opponents will spend their non-conditional removal getting rid of Freaks, Jesters, and Witches while you are quietly building up to 5 mana. Then they're facing down a 6/6 nigh-unblockable beast with a fist full of Doom Blades and Ultimate Prices. Could be sweet!
Seems like a risky play

you might end up helping them if they have a Hero's Downfall ready
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Postby hoeiberg » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:44 am

Not too risky, in most MUs you probably have more creatures in the grave than they do. I do however see the dog as more of an SB card as it can really screw you over if your midrange opponent gets all his value creatures out of the grave.


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