[Primer] W/b aggro AKA Orzhov Humans

Threads from Standard formats since passed.

Moderators: Kaitscralt, zemanjaski, Christen

poppa_f
Regular Member
Posts: 163
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:00 pm
Location: London, UK

[Primer] W/b aggro AKA Orzhov Humans

Postby poppa_f » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:47 pm

Introduction

White Weenie was a tier 1 deck at the end of last season, with Craig Wescoe finishing 5th at Worlds with a Boros version powered by Slayer's Stronghold and Sublime Archangel. However, when Innistrad rotated, the archetype lost some key cards and has been a fringe deck in Theros block so far.


Why play White Weenie now?

The current meta is centred around control and midrange decks, so very few decks are set up to beat small aggro (eg it's rare that black decks have Drown in Sorrow in the sideboard at the moment). Also several of the best cards in the forthcoming Journey to Nyx set make this archetype more powerful, most notably Athreos, the B/W god, but also some some good utility cards like Banishing Light, plus anti-god tech in Decide and Godsend.


What's with the black splash?

The black splash is necessary to play thoughtseize,
which is the most efficient way to deal with sweepers. It also lets you play Xathrid Necromancer, a powerful tool against control and midrange decks that rely on 1-4-1 removal (eg MBD). Finally, it also gives access to the full black removal suite, to give more options for dealing with troublesome cards such as Stormbreath Dragon and Polukranos.


Sample Decks
Pat Cox (44th place at GP Cincinnati, 23rd Mar 2014)
[deck]Lands
4 Mutavault
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
8 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Orzhov Guildgate

Creatures
4 Dryad Militant
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Boros Elite
4 Precinct Captain
4 Daring Skyjek
2 Imposing Sovereign
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Banisher Priest
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos

Noncreature Spells
4 Brave the Elements
2 Orzhov Charm
1 Spear of Heliod
2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride

Sideboard
2 Renounce the Guilds
3 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Thoughtseize
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Doom Blade[/
deck]
Ben Stark (4th place at GP Dallas, 7th Dec 2013)
[deck]
Creatures [29]
4 Banisher Priest
4 Boros Elite
4 Daring Skyjek
4 Dryad Militant
3 Imposing Sovereign
4 Precinct Captain
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
2 Xathrid Necromancer

Spells [9]
4 Brave the Elements
3 Orzhov Charm
2 Spear of Heliod

Lands [22]
4 Godless Shrine
4 Mutavault
1 Orzhov Guildgate
8 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Temple of Silence

Sideboard
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Doom Blade
1 Orzhov Charm
2 Profit // Loss
2 Sin Collector
2 Thoughtseize
2 Xathrid Necromancer[/deck]

The Cards

Main Deck

1 drops:
Soldier of the Pantheon Good on offence and defence. Immune to Azorius charm and detention sphere. Can't be blocked by Reckoner or Frostburn Weird. Auto 4-of in any white aggro deck.

Dryad Militant 2/1 for 1. Not very exciting, but gets the
job done. G in the casting cost can be a liability against Mono-U because of Tidebinder Mage. One downside is that she is not human, so doesn't trigger Xathrid Necromancer. This is often the card that gets sideboarded out, and could see it getting cut post JOU.

Boros Elite I was initially very sceptical about this card (bad T1 play, bad on defence, etc etc), but after finally acquiring some mutavaults on MTGO and testing with him, I actually think he's fine (and currently an auto 4-of). You have a lot of ways to ramp in to batallion (Precinct Captain, Brimaz, Mutavault) and in games where you are swinging for lethal with Brave, he will almost always be a 3/3.


2 drops:
Precinct Captain The best 2 drop against aggro(defence) and control (let's you apply pressure, without having to commit all your team to the battlefield and risk a verdict). Conversely one of the worst against G/R (as Sylvan Caryathid stonewalls him). He's an auto-
include as things stand and gets better with Athreos, as he generates 2 devotion on his own.

Daring Skyjack Another card I was sceptical about, but is actually one of the most solid cards in the deck. The evasion is relevant surpisingly often, he can attack in to Sylvan Caryathid, trades with x/3s and triggers Xathrid Necromancer. Auto 4-of.

Imposing Sovereign This card ranges from game-winning to terrible, depending on the board state. Having your opponents blocker come down tapped can sometimes let you swing in for lethal. She also completely nullifies Whip of Erebos and makes it harder for Xenagos or Elspeth to land safely. She also makes racing red aggro easier, as screws up all their haste guys and stops G/W decks from flashing in surprise blockers. She is bad in multiples though and is a fairly weak body when you are trying to kill off a Jace for example. Pat Cox advises playing her as a 2-of, which I think is about right.

[card:
db7ud6tz]Spirit of the Labyrinth[/card] A recent addition from BotG. The 3/1 body for 2CMC is respectable and the card-draw limit is occasionally relevant (it's slightly hard to tell how much, as you have no way of knowing if your opponenet is sitting on a RtB or Divination they can't cast). His main downside is that he doesn't trigger Xathrid Necromancer. At the moment I play him as a 1-of, but you could possibly play more in a control-heavy meta (at the expense of Imposing Sovereign, which is better against aggro and midrange).


3 drops:
Brimaz, King of Oreskos The Lion King isn't quite as powerful as initially hyped, however he's still one of the best 3-drops available and shines in certain match-ups (similar to precinct captain, he is great on defence against small aggro and can apply pressure to control without you having to go all-in on board presence). Being a legendary, 3 is probably the correct number to play.

[card]Banisher Priest[/card:
db7ud6tz] The other half of your removal suite. He can be one of your most powerful cards, especially against G/x, but obviously opens you up to big blow-outs if he's removed at an inopportune time. One of the keys to playing White Weenie is knowing when to play him and judging how safe it is to do so without leaving up mana for Brave. It's normally worth leaving in some copies against U/w control to deal with post-board Fiendslayers or Archangels.


Non-creature Spells:
Brave the Elements One of the main reasons to play White Weenie. Protects your guys from spot removal, protects against red sweepers, good combat trick for aggro mirrors and most importantly lets you alpha swing for lethal, all for a bargain 1CMC. Remember that opposing mutavaults can still block your guys, when you are calculating if you can Brave for lethal.

Orzhov Charm Part of your main-deck removal suite alongside Banisher Priest. More versatile than Doom Blade /
Ultimate Price and isn't a completely dead draw against control (as it gets one of your guys back). The life loss can become relevant in aggro mirrors though. 2 feels about the right number to play. May see less play when Banishing Light rotates in with JOU.

Spear of Heliod Filling the role of anthem. Unlike Honour of the Pure, this is legendary, so multiples are bad news. 2-of is about right, almost always a bomb when it comes down. The destroy effect also occasionally comes in handy.

Ajani, Caller of the Pride The jump effect can be game-winning and the +1/+1 counters mean you can tick up a threat to break a board-stall. I actually dislike Ajani in the deck though, as our game plan is to swarm, and he is best when jumping a fatty or powering up a fiendslayer. Pat Cox swears by him however. He should become more playable in the Athreos shell, where he can jump Athreos himself and provides 2 devotion.


Sideboard
nThoughtseize One of the main reasons for the black splash. Thoughtseize is probably the most powerful card in standard. It provides an efficient answer to any card, for this deck your main targets will be sweepers such as Drown in Sorrow, but will also be key against troublesome, hard to remove cards like Blood Baron or Jace. Knowing when to play it key, obviously if your main worry is Blood Baron, then wait until turn 5 on the play, to give yourself the best chance of catching it.

Xathrid Necromancer Some permutations of the deck (Ben Stark's for example) maindeck this card. It's ultimately meta-dependant, as it is strong against control and Mono-Black, but bad against decks that aren't removal heavy, such as Mono-U or G/R. Sequencing is important, especially against mono-black, where you want to get this guy down early, to get you 2-4-1s on their spot removal. That said he's not affected by LBZ, so if you think your opponent has LBZ and
you have this + a single white creature, it's probably better to play the white creature first. I expect this card to be played more once Athreos lands due to the synergy between the two cards.

Fiendslayer Paladin Immense against red aggro, black aggro and burn. Bad in most other match-ups. Remember he dies if he's double-blocked by x/2s.

Dark Betrayal Not much to say, necessary because of the prevalence of Black Decks in the current meta.

Doom Blade Great against G/R, good against non-black aggro. Ultimate price is another option if your meta is particularly black-heavy.

Celestial Flare Not a great card, but does give you outs against Hexproof, Blood Baron, so meta-dependant on whether it's worth a slot or 2.

Glare of Heresy Good against U/x control, great against Selesnya, great in the mirror. Faces competition from Deicide and
Banishing Light though once JOU is live.

Rest in Peace Graveyard strategies are too niche at the moment to play more than 1 of these, but could become more relevant if Pharika proves popular.


Example Decklist (this is what I'm playing on MTGO at the moment, with Xathrid Necromance main deck, as I don't have any Brimaz and only 3 mutavaults, as I'm still grinding tickets for the last one)
[deck=poppa_f's W/b aggro]Creatures:29
4 Boros Elite
2 Dryad Militant
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Daring Skyjek
2 Imposing Sovereign
4 Precinct Captain
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Banisher Priest
4 Xathrid Necromancer

Spells:8
4 Brave the Elements
2 Orzhov Charm
2 Spear of Heliod

Lands:23
4 Godless Shrine
3 Mutavault
1 Orzhov Guildgate
10 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Temple of Silence

Sideboard:15
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Thoughtseize
2 Celestial Flare
2 Doom Blade
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Glare of Heresy
1 Rest in Peace[/deck]


Sideboard Strategy and
gameplan against the common MTGO decks


Mono-Black Devotion
OUT: 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth, 1 Dryad Militant, 4 Banisher Priest
IN: 3 Thoughtseize, 3 Dark Betrayal
We are very much the beatdown here. Game 1 the plan is to swarm with creatures. Getting Precinct Captain going can be key, as gives you tokens to sac to their demons. I'll normally try and play him on turn 3, so I can keep a mana open for brave. Game 2 the plan is basically the same, but we have thoughtseize as a pre-emptive answer to Drown in Sorrow and LBZ. If possible, try and play out all your white creatures by turn 3, to avoid being 2-4-1'd by LBZ.

U/w control
OUT: 2 Orzhov Charm, 3 Brave the Elements
IN: 3 Thoughtseize, 2 Glare of Heresy
Game 1 they key is to try and resolve a Necromancer before they verdict. An early Precinct Captain can allow you to apply pressure, while holding some creatures back in case of a board wipe. Game 2 the plan is the same, except you have thoughtseize to try and strip any Verdicts out.
Remember to wait until turn 3 before playing your thoughtseize to have the best chance of spiking a verdict. Normally if you can blank their first verdict then you will win. Fiendslayer can be annoying in this match-up, but you have 6 outs in your Banisher Priests and Glares

G/R Monsters
OUT: 3 Xathrid Necromancer, 2 Dryad Militant
IN: 2 Doom Blade, 3 Thoughtseize
This is an unfavourable matchup. An early Sylvan Caryathid or Courser is tough to fight through, and cards like Polukranos and Stormbreath Dragon can price you out of attacking and allow their card advantage to grind you down. The best chance is to get enough early damage in that you can finish them off with a Brave. Post JOU, Godsend could be nice sideboard option against them

Mono-U Devotion
OUT: 3 Xathrid Necromancer, 2 Dryad Militant
IN: 2 Doom Blade, 3 Thoughtseize
This is normally quite an easy match-up. You can generally out-race them and your Banisher Priests will normally be genuine 2-4-1s. The biggest problem card is probably
an early Frostburn Weird, as it blocks most of your guys, but you have plenty of ways of removing it, especially post-board. Use thoughtseize here to pre-emptively deal with Frostburn, Thassa etc.

Red Aggro
OUT: 4 Boros Elite
IN: 2 Fiendslayer, 2 Doom Blade
This is a favourable match-up, especially post-board if you find a fiendslayer

Burn
OUT: 2 Orzhov Charm
IN: 2 Fiendslayer Paladin
Similar to Red Aggro, the aim is to land a fiendslayer and race them. Plan B is to resolve a precinct captain with mana open for Brave. Managing your Braves is key to this matchup
Last edited by poppa_f on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:14 am, edited 5 times in total.

User avatar
Tyrael
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 774
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:01 pm
Location: Antwerp, Belgium

Postby Tyrael » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:20 pm

Good to finally see a primer for this deck :)

I would also mention the heavier black variants that have been popping up lately

[deck] Jessy Hefner, 2nd place at SCGI Charlotte[/deck]

notice the BBoV's in the sb, I'm a big fan :D
Image

Signature by NerdBoyWonder

Currently playing/testing:
:symub: :symw: Control :symub: :symw:

User avatar
Mr. Metronome
Regular Member
Posts: 140
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:15 pm

Postby Mr. Metronome » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:22 pm

Blood Baron on only 22 land seems... Ambitious.

What do you think about Renounce the Guilds in the sideboard? Hits Sphere, BTE, Frostburn Weird, NVS, BBoV, Boros Reckoner...

poppa_f
Regular Member
Posts: 163
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:00 pm
Location: London, UK

Postby poppa_f » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:17 am

Pat Cox talks about it in his article here: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles ... ti-report/

Personally I'm not a massive fan. It also does nothing against Archangel of Thune or Fiendslayer, which are other cards that Esper can bring in against you. If you look in the comments in that article, there's a discussion between Craig Wescoe and Pat Cox about this vs Celestial Flare (and about Orzhov vs Boros colours for White Weenie in general).

I've racked up about 40 matches with the deck so far and haven't found Blood Baron a big problem. Hardly anyone maindecks it because of LBZ. Post-board you have thoughtseize as first line of defence and celestial flare as second line, so plenty of outs against it.

That said, I've only played a handful of games with
Renounce, so it could warrant further testing.

User avatar
Tyrael
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 774
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:01 pm
Location: Antwerp, Belgium

Postby Tyrael » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:17 pm

Blood Baron on only 22 land seems... Ambitious.
Considering he's only playing two you will usually get to five mana before you draw them. Doesn't really seem like a big issue to me.
Image

Signature by NerdBoyWonder

Currently playing/testing:
:symub: :symw: Control :symub: :symw:

Aodh
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 534
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:47 pm

Postby Aodh » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:31 pm

Really does need one more land for 2 BBoV, IMO.

poppa_f
Regular Member
Posts: 163
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:00 pm
Location: London, UK

Postby poppa_f » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:40 am

MDU's old pyroskies deck was playing 2 Stormbreath Dragons off 23 lands, so blood baron off 22 isn't ludicrous, but agree it is unlikely you will cast it on curve. If it lands on turn 6/7 against MBD it may still be soon enough to stabilise you (the main exception being an early packrat that stuck). It's such a bomb against mono-black, that you could consider running an extra land in the sideboard to bring in along with the Barons, although sideboard slots are tight as it is.

In other news, I managed to grind enough 2-mans over the weekend the buy a Brimaz and he is sweet in the deck. When I get to 2-3 Brimaz, I'll need to move some Xathrid's or Banisher priests to the sideboard, not sure which yet (feels like a meta-call: Xathrid good against control + midrange, Banisher good against creature decks)

User avatar
Mr. Metronome
Regular Member
Posts: 140
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:15 pm

Postby Mr. Metronome » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:00 am

MDU's old pyroskies deck was playing 2 Stormbreath Dragons off 23 lands, so blood baron off 22 isn't ludicrous, but agree it is unlikely you will cast it on curve. If it lands on turn 6/7 against MBD it may still be soon enough to stabilise you (the main exception being an early packrat that stuck). It's such a bomb against mono-black, that you could consider running an extra land in the sideboard to bring in along with the Barons, although sideboard slots are tight as it is.

In other news, I managed to grind enough 2-mans over the weekend the buy a Brimaz and he is sweet in the deck. When I get to 2-3 Brimaz, I'll need to move some Xathrid's or Banisher priests to the sideboard, not sure which yet (feels like a meta-call: Xathrid good against control +
midrange, Banisher good against creature decks)
The PyroDragon deck played 4 copies of Magma Jet and WAY more removal than this. Dragon was so that you could play the control roll by 1-for-1'ing with burn spells until Dragon can take the game away in a couple of turns..

Tanro
Newcomer
Posts: 44
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:00 pm

Postby Tanro » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:37 pm

My current build.

[deck]Creatures : 24
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
4x Precinct Captain
3x Cartel Aristocrat
3x Banisher Priest
4x Xathrid Necromancer
4x Atheros, God of Passage
2x Painseer

Other Spells : 13
4x Banishing Light
2x Underworld Connections
4x Brave the Elements
3x Doomblade

Manabase (23)
2x Mutavault
2x Mana Confluence
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple of Silence
8x Plains
3x Swamp

Sideboard
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
2x Whip of Erebos
2x Dark Betrayal
3x Celestial Flare, or Devour Flesh
2x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3x Ultimate Price
1x Heliod, god of the sun[/deck]

Maybe some number of Atheros could come out, include more connections, or possible read the bones.

User avatar
NerdBoyWonder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 763
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:01 am

Postby NerdBoyWonder » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:44 pm

Will post my build soon. Have a few lists I've tossed together.
Image

User avatar
montu
Regular Member
Posts: 262
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:32 am
Location: Neenah, WI

Postby montu » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:49 pm

My current build.

[deck]Creatures : 24
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
4x Precinct Captain
3x Cartel Aristocrat
3x Banisher Priest
4x Xathrid Necromancer
4x Atheros, God of Passage
2x Painseer

Other Spells : 13
4x Banishing Light
2x Underworld Connections
4x Brave the Elements
3x Doomblade

Manabase (23)
2x Mutavault
2x Mana Confluence
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple of Silence
8x Plains
3x Swamp

Sideboard
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
2x Whip of Erebos
2x Dark Betrayal
3x Celestial Flare, or Devour Flesh
2x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3x Ultimate Price
1x Heliod, god of the sun[/deck]

Maybe some number of Atheros could come out, include more connections, or possible read the bones.
How much value do you find yourself
getting from Painseer?

User avatar
NerdBoyWonder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 763
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:01 am

Postby NerdBoyWonder » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:48 am

My starting point build:

[deck]2 Nyxborn Shieldmate
3 Boros Elite
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Precinct Captain
4 Cartel Aristocrat
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Athreos, God of Passage
3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
4 Xathrid Necromancer

3 Ajani's Presence
3 Orzhov Charm

2 Spear of Heliod

2 Mana Confluence
2 Mutavault
3 Swamp
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
8 Plains[/deck]

There are lots of 3 drops but most of them are not needed to be played on curve. Nyxborn Shieldmate is an extra one drop that can be used as a pump later. Testing Ajani's Presence but could be replaced with God's Willing, Brave the Elements or removal. Eidolon of Countless Battles takes advantage of the ability to create creatures on board. Could also be replaced with Herald of Torment to give the creatures some form of evasion. BROmaz is there because he is just a solid creature that can develop a board position,
allows Cartel Aristocrat to sacrifice tokens for fodder, and synergizes with Eidolon of Countless Battles.
Image

User avatar
NerdBoyWonder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 763
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:01 am

Postby NerdBoyWonder » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:00 am

Another List I am tossing up. This is more 2 drop heavy compared to my last one:

[deck]2 Boros Elite
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
2 Imposing Sovereign
2 Daring Skyjek
4 Precinct Captain
4 Cartel Aristocrat
3 Pain Seer
2 Athreos, God of Passage
2 Frontline Medic
4 Xathrid Necromancer

3 Ajani's Presence
3 Thoughtseize
2 Spear of Heliod

2 Mana Confluence
2 Mutavault
3 Swamp
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
8 Plains[/deck]
Image

Tanro
Newcomer
Posts: 44
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:00 pm

Postby Tanro » Thu May 01, 2014 5:07 pm

My current build.

[deck]Creatures : 24
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
4x Precinct Captain
3x Cartel Aristocrat
3x Banisher Priest
4x Xathrid Necromancer
4x Atheros, God of Passage
2x Painseer

Other Spells : 13
4x Banishing Light
2x Underworld Connections
4x Brave the Elements
3x Doomblade

Manabase (23)
2x Mutavault
2x Mana Confluence
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple of Silence
8x Plains
3x Swamp

Sideboard
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
2x Whip of Erebos
2x Dark Betrayal
3x Celestial Flare, or Devour Flesh
2x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3x Ultimate Price
1x Heliod, god of the sun[/deck]

nMaybe some number of Atheros could come out, include more connections, or possible read the bones.
How much value do you find yourself getting from Painseer?
None now... I've play tested him, and he rubs me wrong... I don't like the card as much in practice as I do underworld connections.

User avatar
NerdBoyWonder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 763
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:01 am

Postby NerdBoyWonder » Thu May 01, 2014 8:54 pm

Well the problem could be is that you have 17 cards that are all 3CMC which means painseer if triggering off will be doing you 3 damage most of the time. I don't believe Underworld Connections is where you want to be for a tribal aggro deck. Painseer is used to be an aggressive creature that has potential card advantage if left undealt with. Being human allows him to also be hard to remove with Xathrid as he will replace himself and with Athreos will be doing 3 damage.

Right now your list seems more of a midrange list but not playing any of the stronger midrange creatures and attempting to stick to the human theme which doesn't fit in a midrange shell since almost all humans are in the 2CMC range.
Image

Tanro
Newcomer
Posts: 44
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:00 pm

Postby Tanro » Thu May 01, 2014 11:08 pm

Yeah the main thing I don't like about pain seer is that he is not gonna be untaping until turn 4 at the earliest. Turn 4 is when I want to drop the underworld connections.

Here is my new list. More aggro-ish. I think this deck either needs 4 pain seer, and no underworld connections, or some non-zero number of connections, and some more gas (bigger mid-range creatures, bbov, ghostdads, archangel, brimaz)

Aggro version
[deck]Creatures : 30
4x Boros Elite
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
4x Precinct Captain
4x Cartel Aristocrat
2x Banisher Priest
4x Xathrid Necromancer
4x Atheros, God of Passage
4x Painseer

Other Spells : 7
3x Banishing Light
4x Brave the Elements


Manabase (23)
2x Mutavault
2x Mana Confluence
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple of Silence
8x Plains
3x Swamp

Sideboard
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
2x Whip of Erebos
2x Dark Betrayal
3x Celestial Flare, or Devour Flesh
2x Blood Baron
of Vizkopa
3x Ultimate Price
1x Heliod, god of the sun[/deck]

Midrange Version (really not sure on this. Midrange version seems like it just needs to be B/Wgoodstuff.dec)
[deck]Creatures : 25
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
4x Precinct Captain
4x Cartel Aristocrat
2x Brimaz, King of kitty tokens
2x Xathrid Necromancer
3x Atheros, God of Passage
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
2x Master of Feast
3x Herald of Torment

Other Spells : 12
4x Banishing Light
3x Underworld Connections
2x Brave the Elements
3x Doomblade

Manabase (23)
2x Mutavault
2x Mana Confluence
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple of Silence
8x Plains
3x Swamp

Sideboard
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
2x Dark Betrayal
3x Celestial Flare, or Devour Flesh
2x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3x Ultimate Price
1x Heliod, god of the sun[/deck]

User avatar
NerdBoyWonder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 763
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:01 am

Postby NerdBoyWonder » Fri May 02, 2014 4:07 am

If you do go B/W or W/B midrange it definitely should be an Orzhov Good stuff deck. There is little need to keep with the human theme then. Instead Athreos makes all your threats recursive so it is much harder for control decks to remove them. On top of that Ghost Dad plus 1 more devotion makes Athreos active. With Brimaz in the board Xathrid becomes much weaker. You could probably replace the Xathrid's with Eidolon of Countless Battles.

In your aggro build I am not sure you entirely want to load up on 4 Athreos. He and Xathrid do much of the same thing BUT Xathrid can be played in multiples. Athreos can't. Having multiples sitting in your hand is horrible. You can shave one or 2 off and fit in another aggressive 2 drop. I'm not entirely sold on Banisher Priest. He can remove a threat understandably but you already have Banishing Light in your board which hits multiple targets.
Image

Tanro
Newcomer
Posts: 44
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:00 pm

Postby Tanro » Fri May 02, 2014 4:49 am

O-Ring is really banisher priest 5-8. Athreos is so good you want to see him nearly every game. So 3 is about as low I would go. Same deal with Poly-K you can only play one, but you really don't have that much of a choice. It is the best 4 drop for Mono-Green and GR Monsters. You run 4. I see Athreos being the best creature in this deck. You want to see him bad enough to run 4. Even if that occasional means seeing 2 of them. Aside from that, if you play the 2nd you give it pseudo vigilance, and you make them either take 3, or let you get it back to do it over again. 3 mana for 3 damage isn't where you wanna be in this deck, but it is better than not seeing Athreos.

I am thinking 2 BP, 2 King of Kitten tokens would be a good split even with the Humans theme going.

User avatar
NerdBoyWonder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 763
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:01 am

Postby NerdBoyWonder » Fri May 02, 2014 6:07 am

Polukranos and Athreos aren't exactly creature for creature though. Polukranos is always a creature and threat. Athreos isn't. Athreos' creature state is dependent on your devotion count. In a human theme devotion is set on the back burner as a strategy. It is possible but not necessarily the plan as it would be for Mono Blue Devotion who's plan is to create a high devotion count to activate Thassa. Going 3/3 Xathrid/Athreos split would be good or even 4/3. I prefer 4/2 personally just after running a few hands between both my clunky 3 drop list posted above and the 2 drop aggressive list that plays smoother.

A devotion list for Athreos isn't as appealing to me as he is not as powerful compared to Thassa who occupies the same cost and you want to make her an active threat as she can become unblockable also.
Image

Tanro
Newcomer
Posts: 44
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:00 pm

Postby Tanro » Fri May 02, 2014 6:19 pm

I think I will run a 3/3 split then. I can't really see going under 3, you want to see it most games, you just prefer not to have multiples.

poppa_f
Regular Member
Posts: 163
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:00 pm
Location: London, UK

Postby poppa_f » Mon May 05, 2014 4:13 pm

Going to try the following variant out once the remaining cards I need arrive next week:

[deck]Theros Aristocrats[/deck]

Deck is loosely sacrifice-based, with Cartel Aristocrat and Altar's Reap as the Sac outlets and Athreos/Xathrid Necromancer/Dictate of Erebos as the Sac triggers.

Rough Game plans:
- Against Control the plan is to spew creatures on to the board and use Athreos/Xathrid/Thoughtseize to protect
against sweepers.
- Against creature based decks, you stall for time and try to resolve a Dictate of Erebos to kill all their guys.
- Against Mono-black you bring in 3 blood barons and 4 thoughtseize (for the inevitable post-board LBZs).
- Against burn you bring in 3 FSP and 3 BB and lifegain them to death.

In a perfect world, I'd like the deck to start game one in full-aggro mode, but then pivot to a slower, grindier mode against other aggro decks, to give you time to land a dictate of erebos and take over. This probably means cutting something for more 1-drops (Boros Elite or Tormented Hero), but not sure what to cut. Possibly precinct captain (as WW is hard to cast), but on the other hand I like the fact he's a token generator (as sac fodder for Dictate of Erebos or bodies to pump with the anthems)

I'll try and assemble a more budget version on MTGO when JOU lands so I can test it a bit.

Tanro
Newcomer
Posts: 44
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:00 pm

Postby Tanro » Tue May 13, 2014 2:25 am

Came Up with an Enchantress list. This should see quite a bit of incremental lifegain off Coinsmith. Also has decent hand disruption in the main board. If you prefer you can drop the scarhide all together in favour of more removal. But that begins to move away from the agro gameplan. Obzedat is an auto include in any B/W deck that runs Athreos I feel. I dunno about the mana base, but I usually rock 23 or less unless I am running control. 23 does seem like a stretch to hit a turn 5 obzedat or gary.

[deck]
Creatures (26)
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Brain Maggot
2 Underworld Coinsmith
4 Master of Feast
4 Herald of Torment
2 Athreos, God of Passage
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel

Other (11)
2 Whip of Erebos
3 Underworld Connections
3 Banishing Light
2 Thoughsieze
1 Extinguish All Hope

Mana Base (23)
2 Mana Confluence
4 Temple of Silence
4 Godless Shrine
11 Swamp
2 Mutavault

Sideboard

4 Duress
2 Thoughtsieze
3 Dark Betrayal
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3 Ultimate Price
2-4 Lifebane Zombie (If Gruul Monsters, or Naya Hexproof is in the meta)[/deck]

M/Us :
Burn : Incremental lifegain and hand disruption G1, Land Obzedat, and ride the ETB effect to victory. G2 board out scarhide, board in 2 thought sieze, 4 duress. Hand disruption, and lifegain them.

Mono Black : (Pseudo mirror) you are gonna be packing more MB threats than them G1. So threat it up, then drop gary, kill him off, and then whip him in for win. G2 board in the 2 thoughtsieze, 3 dark betrayal and 2 BBoV. BBoV is the all star in this matchup.

RG Beats :
Bestow a Herald on Master, bigger than anything they can drop that can fly. G2 board in 2 thoughtsieze, and any lifebane zombies. Try and get rid of threats / courser.

Control: Board in hand disruption. Use Athreos to recur threats or push damage.
Last edited by Tanro on Sun May 18, 2014 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Elricity
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1182
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:45 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Postby Elricity » Tue May 13, 2014 5:01 pm

23 lands isn't enough to play six 5 drops maindeck. 25-26 is the right amount there.

Tanro
Newcomer
Posts: 44
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:00 pm

Postby Tanro » Sun May 18, 2014 7:52 pm

I had increased to 24, it just felt too many. I'd rather loose to drought than flood. Considering switching the 2 coinsmith to pack rat. Then removing something for a 24th land.

poppa_f
Regular Member
Posts: 163
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:00 pm
Location: London, UK

Postby poppa_f » Fri May 23, 2014 1:51 pm

Conley Woods posted up some lifegain themed decks, some of them actually look pretty sweet!
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles ... ter-act-2/

I tried my aristocrats deck on mtgo, it kinda sucked. Turns out having 5cmc enchantments isn't the best plan in a world where people have started main-decking enchantment hate.

Going back to basics and trying a straight-up aggro deck with some Atheros mixed in for value and Keening Apparition as my own main-deck enchantment hate:

[deck]Orzhov aggro[/deck]


Return to “Archives”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests