LEGO Movie Mafia - Game Over - Town Win

[Dechs Kaison]

I really wish that first one was right.

[Dechs Kaison]

So, I need to go back to voting GR.

Vote GR

Hey Az. Can you explain to me the hole in the logic of hammering myself? Let's assume that I had the vote counts right and that I believed Imopen was going to vote me at his first opportunity anyway. Why was I wrong to vote myself and shrink the suspect pool?

[Azrael]

So, I need to go back to voting GR.

Vote GR

Hey Az. Can you explain to me the hole in the logic of hammering myself? Let's assume that I had the vote counts right and that I believed Imopen was going to vote me at his first opportunity anyway. Why was I wrong to vote myself and shrink the suspect pool?

I'm not sure whether you're arguing that the suspect pool would be shrunk bc we're only looking at the people on your wagon then, or b/c there would be one fewer player alive, but either way, I'd much rather have a huge suspect pool than have the mafia one step closer to winning.

Large numbers of townies relative to the mafia is what we're aiming for. And just b/c someone didn't vote you, doesn't mean
they're not a suspect. Just b/c someone did vote, doesn't mean they're a suspect either.

[hamfactorial]

Honestly comfortable with either DK or G_R lynch at the moment, DK's post 129 pings me, mostly I don't like the mindset behind it, questions are good as they get reactions you can use to gauge your opinions on other people, why not ask them?

G_R is flailing pretty hard for the most part, I suspect DK more tbh but I am willing to vote either if it means we can end the day and move on.

on that note vote dechs kaison

LMD is being very honest with this post.

[Azrael]

I totally missed that.

Nice catch.

[Azrael]

Four days till deadline.

*thinks* Can't tell if Lord McD is using honestly because he feels he should have a more decisive opinion as town, or b/c he's scum and he's feeling bad about being ok with bussing his buddy so early, or he's scum and embarrassed about writing something that's all BS. The 2nd sentence seems not to flow together too well, he hops from one idea to the next kinda awkwardly without dwelling on his reasoning very much.

I don't think this should distract us from GR, just something to keep an eye on.

[hamfactorial]

The great question for me is should we kill GR today, let scum do it tonight, or let MoJo do it tomorrow? I doubt he's living until endgame with a claim like that, so which option gives is the best information tomorrow?

I think letting him live and seeing if MoJo vigs him is the best option. Now that Dechs is town beyond reason, I don't know who else could get 5 votes today. I'll vote GR before I let a NL happen, but I don't like it.

[Azrael]

The great question for me is should we kill GR today, let scum do it tonight, or let MoJo do it tomorrow? I doubt he's living until endgame with a claim like that, so which option gives is the best information tomorrow?

I think letting him live and seeing if MoJo vigs him is the best option. Now that Dechs is town beyond reason, I don't know who else could get 5 votes today. I'll vote GR before I let a NL happen, but I don't like it.

Killing GR's our best option. Between our lynch and MoJo's day-vig, I think we'll be set up for an excellent shot at winning this game on Day 2, and I see no reason to allow him to screw with people in the night (does jailing people allow them to continue building? Probably not - we might lose our day-shot
on that gamble). If we try and rush a lynch on someone else today, not so much, probably a misfire, and we obviously don't want a no-lynch. I'm not sure the scum would fire at GR even if he were town, at this point.

[Azrael]

Hmm. Actually, maybe that's not a concern, about the day-vig. Still, I don't think I'd be comfortable trying to get a wagon started on anyone else at this point, we don't have enough time to drag any of our lurkers out of their hidey-holes sufficiently, and that's more than likely where our last scum slot's hiding.

[hamfactorial]

If GR jails MoJo and his vig gets delayed, he'll have lots of 'splaining to do.

[Azrael]

If GR jails MoJo and his vig gets delayed, he'll have lots of 'splaining to do.

I don't think it's an issue, mechanically, based on my conversations with Stardust. Though I haven't asked him about this scenario specifically. You have a similar experience?

[hamfactorial]

I haven't asked him either, but it's worth an inquiry. Will send him a PM.

[hamfactorial]

Jailing won't affect build times, only use of an invention if it's activated at night.

[Azrael]

*nods*

When we construct items, they're completed at twilight/become active at nightfall, so as a function of mechanics they're built during the day, and it makes sense that abilities that affect us at night-time might fail to have any effect.

[( G_R )]

I was actually thinking about jailing MJ so he doesn't get NK'd since my PM warns nothing about building times. Good thing you asked though. I'm still gonna confirm this with Stardust myself, no offense.

[hamfactorial]

I'm offended that you wouldn't trust someone in a game of mafia!

[RedNihilist]

The great question for me is should we kill GR today, let scum do it tonight, or let MoJo do it tomorrow? I doubt he's living until endgame with a claim like that, so which option gives is the best information tomorrow?

I think letting him live and seeing if MoJo vigs him is the best option. Now that Dechs is town beyond reason, I don't know who else could get 5 votes today. I'll vote GR before I let a NL happen, but I don't like it.

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT.
Since when DK is "town beyond reason"?

[Dechs Kaison]

Since he started paying attention. Try to keep up.

[RedNihilist]

You're too self-aware for my taste, and the idea that you could have gone from nearly hanged to 100% cleared through that self-vote is appalling.

[Dechs Kaison]

I'm too self aware, yet wasn't aware that there were only three votes on me. You're self contradictory.

Seriously, Red, wake up. I was about to be hanged for the absolute worst reason. I "claimed scum." Again, wake up and look at my actions. I countered Mojo's claim early when I didn't believe him because my building of a vig power would take two days. One: Why the fuck would scum be master builders? Two (and more important): If they are, why would they need to submit a plan for building a vigilante power?

This is why I said: I'm town beyond doubt as soon as you start paying attention.

[Dechs Kaison]

Morons. All of you.

Now vote GR, damn it. I'll even give you reasons:

1. He's scum (see the multiple cases against).
2. No one else is getting hung before deadline.

[Azrael]

You're too self-aware for my taste, and the idea that you could have gone from nearly hanged to 100% cleared through that self-vote is appalling.

He should never have been anywhere near being hanged in the first place, the self-vote is just the icing on the "100% townie" cake.

[Stardust]

Votecount!

( G_R ) (2): Azrael, Dechs Kaison
RedNihilist (2): imopen2, Mogadishu Jones
Dechs Kaison (2): rezombad, Lord_Mcdonalds

Not voting: RedNihilist, ( G_R ), hamfactorial

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.


72 hours to deadline from the time of this post. Deadline Clock.


imopen2, Mogadishu Jones and rezombad have been prodded.

[Dechs Kaison]

I think those numbers are off, Stardust.

[Stardust]

Thanks. That's always the last thing I update after moving names around. Prods are just so exciting that I forgot!

[( G_R )]

Morons. All of you.

Now vote GR, damn it. I'll even give you reasons:

1. He's scum (see the multiple cases against).
2. No one else is getting hung before deadline.

"Let's kill the doc because a dead doc is better than no dead body at all".

[( G_R )]

It actually is, carry on.

[( G_R )]

Here's the weird thing: reading the previous page, I notice how Ham, LMD, Red and myself where not fully aware that he was not actually hung with the not-really self hammer. In his post, DK says he counted the votes, but was ultimately not correct, yet now he's correcting the mod's numbers?

[Dechs Kaison]

Yeah, because I happened to be logged on to see the votecount where there was a (4) by my name, and only two names after it.

But please, keep trying to misdirect.

[Dechs Kaison]

Correcting the votecount when it's just posted is one thing. Keeping track of the running votes where there hasn't been a votecount in a while is another.

You were comparing apples to iguanas.

Hey, all you people still playing. Do you see what this scumbag is doing?

[( G_R )]

Oh you're flaming now. Kindly stop.

[( G_R )]

Yeah, because I happened to be logged on to see the votecount where there was a (4) by my name, and only two names after it.

But please, keep trying to misdirect.

Fair enough.

[Azrael]

The GR Case, ADHD Edition

1. GR acts like he's doing the town a favor by breaking from his "official" position of not taking stances to provide his reads on people. Prior to this, he doesn't seem very interested at all in coming to any conclusions about all the activity taking place in the thread. Rather than trying to read people, it looks like he's just trying to avoid sticking his neck out.
2. His reads on people are full of confusion and doubt over things that should not evoke confusion or doubt in a townie. He's having too hard of a time reaching conclusions. This happens when scum aren't sure how they would deal with a situation as a townie, and when they're afraid of getting backlash for backing a bad wagon.
3. What scum tend to do in that situation is exactly what GR did here - he tried to stall for time to see what other players were
saying and thinking instead of going on record about what he thought on my case. He actually admits that was what he was doing in his posts. He was looking for a safe play, to avoid blame, instead of looking for scum.
4. GR's posts show a lot of nervousness, waffling, and performance-language tells. He doesn't seem convinced by the arguments in his own posts.
5. GR's vote against Dechs was very over-aggressive. He acted like Dechs was scum on a silver platter in his language, but failed to explain why, and when other people disagreed with him he backtracked from that read as fast as he could.

There's a few other tells I could mention, like the sign-up thread debacle, and his antics since the initial case such as the naked OMGUS vote, but I think the above is enough material to make the bare-bones case.

Any two or three of those points together would be enough for a solid case. Together, it's like a museum exhibit of the most common mistakes that scum tend to make. We should kill GR, with fire.
n
Questions?

Reposting and expanding:

6. GR didn't "really" know that Dechs was a newb - he says this by way of excusing his overly aggressive vote against Dechs. There's a possibility that this is a direct lie, based on conversations prior to the game where Dechs talked about his level of experience, where GR was present. But ok, we have no way to know that for certain, so let's disregard that as a possibly unreliably tell. Even if GR skimmed over those bits, I'm skeptical of the performance language here, and given the level of experience in the game, and Dechs' posts just in this game, I think this is a pretty thin and questionable justification as a hasty retreat from a bad vote.

7. GR continually has been stressing his value as a town power role, but without seeming to show much genuine regret or frustration over his wagon. This reads like scum trying to hypnotize the town into keeping him alive a little longer by dangling his claim in front of them.

8. GR'
s OMGUS vote "accidentally" put me to L-1, and had no justification with it. This was a pretty transparent play to kill off the person who was casing him.

9. He's advanced some weak meta defenses as an excuse/explanation for his play, but none of his defenses are presented with much conviction, and upon research, I don't think his meta defense holds up very well at all. His town play reads much differently to me, much more easy-going and assured. Aside from that, the only defense he's mounted is completely non-responsive to the points against him, a pure ad hom attack, trying to make the case on him a referendum on whether or not I'm a delusional egomaniac, instead of whether or not he's scum and whether the points against him are accurate.

---

By contrast, the case against Dechs was:

1. Dechs said he was scum when asked. He did this once in another game where he was scum. Therefore, scum whenever he does this! (No matter whether or not he does this in his town games just as often.
I often vote in my scum games. Not actually a scum tell for me though...)
2. He reacted "nervously" to a single vote, according to GR, @ post 448. (There's no nervousness in this post at all. It's another one of those posts that's full of townie incredulousness and assuredness at how bad point #1 is.)

PPE: GR's attacks on DK have all been really scummy. He's been repeatedly searching for opportunistic reasons to smear him, not actually reading him.

[hamfactorial]

Morons. All of you.

Now vote GR, damn it. I'll even give you reasons:

1. He's scum (see the multiple cases against).
2. No one else is getting hung before deadline.

Every time you call me a moron I'm going to spam smilies at you.




I said I would vote for GR to avoid a NL, why so antsy?

[( G_R )]

That's not very ADHD friendly, AZ. You're too much concerned defending the guy. Why so concerned? Are you really THAT certain about him being town? How can you?

[Dechs Kaison]

I said I would vote for GR to avoid a NL, why so antsy?

We do have a deadline and players tend to disappear for spans of time that are greater than the time between now and said deadline.

You said you would vote to avoid a NL. People say a lot of things in Mafia. Not everyone follows through.

[( G_R )]

Because everyone ITT is a moron except for you and Azrael, amirite?

[Azrael]

Morons. All of you.

Now vote GR, damn it. I'll even give you reasons:

1. He's scum (see the multiple cases against).
2. No one else is getting hung before deadline.

Every time you call me a moron I'm going to spam smilies at you.




I said I would vote for GR to avoid a NL, why so antsy?

Put yourself in his shoes for a moment. In his eyes, the town has
proven it's full of incompetent morons who would rather mislynch a guy based on a really dumb case, as opposed to the obviously scummy guy who's been trying to kill him for a long time and has been the subject of a pretty detailed case. He's been on the brink of death, and the same people he distrusts who almost killed him are now in charge of knocking off GR.

Frankly, I'm a little nervous myself. I'd rather not wait until the very last day to try to assemble our votes on GR. We don't have a good alternative wagon, so if he's going to be our lynch for the day, I'd rather we do it ASAP rather than risk a last-minute no-lynch with all the lurkers/unreliable voters we have here.

It'd be good to have our votes transferring to GR now, and I wouldn't be opposed to hammering him by the end of today, provided everyone has submitted their building plans already.

PPE RE: GR - Clearly because I'm scum my inside knowledge is tainting my reads with undue certainty. Nevermind all that silly
behavioral stuff I keep posting. And I certainly have no reason not to want the town to figure out who the fellow townies amongst it are, so that they don't try to kill them off later and lose the game. That's just silly.

[hamfactorial]

Vote GR

[Azrael]

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=255696#p255696:1yggrka5]Lord_Mcdonalds » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:08 am[/url:1yggrka5]":1yggrka5]Honestly comfortable with either DK or G_R lynch at the moment, DK's post 129 pings me, mostly I don't like the mindset behind it, questions are good as they get reactions you can use to gauge your opinions on other people, why not ask them?

G_R is flailing pretty hard for the most part, I suspect DK more tbh but I am willing to vote either if it means we can end the day and move on.

on that note [b:1yggrka5]vote dechs kaison[/b:1yggrka5][/quote:1yggrka5]

Yo, Lord McDonalds.

Can you walk me through your mindset in this post a bit? Why "honestly"? What mindset did you read into post 129, and why did it bother you?

Did GR bother you only b/c he was flailing, or was there something more?