[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Midnight_v]

Shit, Midnight is having a full-fledged forum breakdown due to prolonged exposure to the Gutter combined with the raw, undulating realization of a life with Siege Rhino killing his poor ass over and over. These meltdowns don't pass quickly.

Man your Belza stations. We're not going to lose another soldier.

No. No. Unlike most resisters I looked at a Lightning Helix, on a 4cc guy, and said "Oh... So its like that" and have been killing people with that shit all season.
Its just... dissatisfying is all.
I've been doing well. I do weary of unbalanced cycles though, and I start to wonder right at the beginning are these
people stupid?
I keep hearing Pat Sullivan and Ced talking about how the "basic cable version" of butcher is a 5/4 for four and I keep waiting for one of them to say "but the rest of its pretty conditional and ...kinda bad"
I watched all season wondering why the hell people kept trying to force savage knuckle blade, and by people I mean Kibler, and Antony Lowry, though to be fair I should be used to that type of tripe from them. The amount of people that were following that was just...
So while I'm a bit indifferent to playing whatever silly shit they print. I'm baffled as to why they print shit cycles like that, and how the hell can peoples card analysis be so bad, so consistently.

also...
Loss of life - black / 3 damage... Lightning... something. something. meh.
Trample with fat butt green - green /... black
Hateful permanent that makes people cry - white... yep.

Never allowing tears to be collected because "Fuck it, lightning helix, has gone post op now. ." priceless.

[Midnight_v]

Plus without someone saying something... anything different. you guys start to stagnate on witticisms. Go. Spam. go...

[Kaitscralt]

RE: people like Kibler. If you follow MTG social media (don't), you'd know Kibler is almost exclusively about Hearthstone right now. It's where his gaming passion lies. But he is paid to talk about and play MTG. It makes sense that he would choose the most Kibler of all the cards, Savage Knuckleblade, and play it solely because it is like a theme deck for himself. He doesn't care about Standard or the meta and has lifetime invites everywhere. It gets his fans reading his articles, watching his streams and buying SCG's cards, all without realizing until it's too late that Temur isn't that good and Brian Kibler doesn't care about Magic right now.

[Kaitscralt]

If you don't follow the meta and tournament results, coverage, streams, and everything else, then you will be bamboozled into wasting your moms hard-earned cash.

[Kaitscralt]

Don't feel badly, I only recently started putting the pieces together myself while stalking LSV for streaming times (who does care about Magic)

[Purp]

Should i focus on jeskai/rw token variants for the next two months kait? Or continue playing golf on the weekends

[Kaitscralt]

depends, how's your slice?

[Khaospawn]

Purp, the real question you should be asking is: why in fuck's name am I not playing Siege Rhino?

[Kaitscralt]

btw I am not saying Kibler should be dismissed entirely as a deck builder, I'd just keep one eye squinted a self-respecting amount

[Kaitscralt]

Personally, although I've been a Rhino man since the unholy printing, Jeskai Tokens is easily my favorite deck in the format. I've been trying to keep busy with life things and bothering people on this site, so no Standard lately for me, but if one of these sweet new cards from Fates makes Jeskai Tokens even slightly more awesome than it already is, then I will have to put it together, and you should stick with it in that case.

It's the Christian thing to do.

[Midnight_v]

It's the Christian thing to do...

hahahahaha! slow clap.

Kibler: I really didn't get it from the start. I thought siege rhino was his obvious choice for it makes sense its still green its in his chosen realm.
It just really turned me off to certain "pros" thinking about how that played out for his devotees.

Still... the cycle is terrible. Compared to rhino
Butcher is bad.
Knuckleblade is bad
Mantis Rider is actually good, but not better than any spot removal spell in the format which is bad.
Sutlai had a necromancer of some vein, but... he wasn't was he? So at least they got sidisi.

The thing is there is no reason for it, and I had to think about what maverick and alex, and Kait are saying about red (base red) being bad. Not that the strategies it could have are bad, but the strength of the cards they're given is generally fairly low. . . comparatively. There's a social contract really where red can get mediocre guys, nothing to protect them, and amazing burn, but that contract is too easily broken.

When released for a brief second I looked at Butcher and wondered if you could just get the Dos Rakis/aristocrats/Zombies thing going with him, but ...no its a false start.

Later, I sat and thought about what all the fos guys were really trying to play. When it was 4 thundermaw/hellrider/Falkenrath Aristocrat and great little humans or zombies vs Thragtusk and Resto.
I mulled the philosophy until I figured out that what most of them really wanted to play was something like "Demigod red", but despite Sam black and the R/W midrange deck that we were doting on recently. . .

Why the hell aren't you playing siege rhino

I don't think in that ultimately siege rhino will win the day. He's a set up for U/x control to win the day, because he excerpts so much more pressure on traditional aggro decks than control decks which actually LOSE 4 mana wrath but gained a few cheap sweepers keep little guys out.

Ultimately, I think the proper move for this season is... Siege Rhino, or some kind of *you* flavored control deck.

I've been reading James' articles, and I don't think the "Standard Bogles" deck hes endorsing (while kinda fun) is the deck people should be moving forward with. Not enough people are going to be able to "Tom Ross" that shit, and win because " I Tom Ross'd that shit".


But I sure as hell am going to give it a try!

[hamfactorial]

The Maverick doth protest too much, methinks.

[Mcdonalds]

#rekt

[Midnight_v]

The Maverick doth protest too much, methinks.

Knuckleblade and Butcher are not bad, they're just not that good right now, especially compared to Siege Rhino. Both are objectively good cards.

Uh-huh. Lets think.
A. I mentioned quite a bit the unbalanced mess of the cycle is what makes it dumb. So reiterating that they're bad compared to siege rhino, is stupid.
2. Fuck you. (just you know because you deserve it)

B. When I really think about it, no, they're not really very good. I think what's really needed is a criteria that of what makes a good creature compared to a Great/Good/Decent/Weak/Bad.
People do this with planeswalkers depending on how it Costs/protects itself/provides card advantage/wins the game.

Creatures can be judged in consequentialism however. Saying that "this card is good. On its own. In a bubble" while you may be tautologically correct, you're point is pretty much fucking irrelevant if they're not GOOD, when it matters.

Where it matters is when they're most likely to be played: Standard
Are they good in standard? No.
What are they good against? The popular removal at the time they're played? No?
How do that stack up against popular cards in the same set as them?
Will they make an impact in another format?

I don't know what the questions are but that shit of "No, on its own that's a good card" needs to fucking die.
The shell matters, the things going on around them matters, and what they do on and empty board and when
facing removal? Matters.

oh and TOM ROSS. (have a nickel, sweet thang}

[Khaospawn]

I don't like to talk about the Boss. Not after GP Orlando.

[Jamie]

One time I cosplayed as a cute girl. Some guy took my picture and put it on the 4chan. Shit was cash.

[Khaospawn]

I'm waiting for someone to cosplay as Siege Rhino.

---

[Midnight_v]

One time I cosplayed as a cute girl. Some guy took my picture and put it on the 4chan. Shit was cash.

Wait.
Wut?


Jesus. This forum is insane.

[Col. Khaddafi]

Da best forum

[admin]

extreme magical cards forum

[Jamie]

I want to do a 1080° kickflip and land into a perfect siege rhino etb trigger

[hamfactorial]

I invented a new skateboard trick, I call it the siege grindo.

[Kaitscralt]

another victim of rhino fever

[LP, of the Fires]

Kait's like 80% right about Kibler. I play lots of hearthstone and that's where Kibler spends the lion's share of his time, what with Modo being garbage and all. He is honest with his fans and himself though when it comes to his decks and to be fair, he has put up respectable standard perfomances with his decks(9th place GP LA with knuckblade temur, x-3 at GP Denver when he realized knuckleblade wasn't good enough and switched to straight RG agro).

Butcher of the horde is a good card, but not in the way the rest of the cycle is. It needs support as opposed to the other threats which are simply Cast>value.

Heroic's a fine deck until you start playing against elite players. Basically, it's good until your in the last 5 rounds of a GP or if your on the pro tour. The deck doesn't kill fast enough and all the advantage you gained goes out the window when people stop fearing you because they know exactly what your deck is capable of.

UB control is the best positioned deck so long as agro and/or RG decks aren't doing well. It's matchups are great until you start playing 2 drops and haste creatures.

RG is pretty great if you get the mana and the threat/removal ratio right. Probably can't beat a good jeskai deck ever though and it's success is probably proportionate to the number of murderous cuts running around.

Jeskai tokens is basically the same situation just replace murderous cut with doomwake giant. Mantis rider contrary to kait's post actually started showing up in Jeskai Tokens. A lot of players started to replace the Chandra's with riders to lower the curve and add more haste to the deck. The archetype also gained more then most every other deck in the format do to the mythic white creatures and valorous stance. Stance in particular goes a LONG way towards neutralizing the hordes of rhinos.

The whip decks are solid, but have issues with anafenza. The sidisi deck definitely kills the fastest, but is the most exploitable since it's pretty all in while the Constellation deck actually has it all.

Abzan agro is my pick for best abzan deck by a lot since it's aggressive and has tools to beat up on everything minus Elspeth. I'm particularly interested in BBD's latest deck from pre-rotation that he won a PTQ with that had sideboarded coursers and duneblast as a mirror breaker.

If I missed anything, holla. Also, I'm closer and closer to pulling the trigger on affinity updates which I'll probably post both here and Sally(since there are actually people there to talk to affinity about).

[Col. Khaddafi]

I want to do a 1080° kickflip and land into a perfect siege rhino etb trigger

its the same than 3 360º flips...

[Khaospawn]

I'll probably post both here and Sally(since there are actually people there to talk to affinity about).

Be careful what you wish for. I sometimes go to Sally to check up on the Burn thread (cuz I end up talking to the same 3 people here) and always regret it. Like, I'll read a page of posts and just want to kill myself because of the stupidity.

And then I come back here and want to kill myself because of the stupidity.

[Khaospawn]

This is exactly the shit I'm talking about in the Burn thread on Sally:

[quote from="Gul_Dukat »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the- ... mment=4365"]Hey guys! Testing out Siege Rhino in here!

I know it sounds dumb but no one has tested it yet, and getting to 4 lands is quite common at around turn 5-6. I can see losing lots of games because of him, but imagine a 4 land hand with 2 rhinos. hmmm[/quote]

[Khaospawn]

Oh look, another one:

[quote from="Gul_Dukat »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the- ... mment=4368"]Highly playable.

You should always have B/W/R mana up by turn 3/4 unless you kept a 1and hand.

Very easy to cast and great in the mirror, great against junk but 4 mana isn't the best. still testing just an idea[/quote]

[Khaospawn]

That HAS to be a gimmick from somebody here. It just has to be.

[LP, of the Fires]

Gross

[Jamie]

I want to play siege rhino along with my burn and counterspells.

[Khaospawn]

Like, I can't even bring myself to troll back. I just...can't.

[LP, of the Fires]

Apparently I'm brining in 10 cards against twin...

[Jamie]

Like, I can't even bring myself to troll back. I just...can't.

Abandon your integrity.
This allows you to cast siege rhino as a bonus to trolling bads on sally

[Khaospawn]

I made a few bad rhino jokes. Multiple posts.

I'll probably get a card or two. So be it.

[hamfactorial]

Apparently I'm brining in 10 cards against twin...

As Affinity?

[Mcdonalds]

I bring in 11 scrub

[LP, of the Fires]

Apparently I'm brining in 10 cards against twin...

As Affinity?

Yup. thoughtseizes, dismembers, wear/tear, illness in the ranks, spellskite. So I guess it's 9 now.

[hamfactorial]

What are you taking out?

[Khaospawn]

Artifacts