[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[LP, of the Fires]

[TBuzzsaw]

Probably gonna start playing this.

[deck]Creatures:
4 Warden of the First Tree
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Rakshasa Deathdealer
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Siege Rhino
2 Surrak, the Hunt Caller

Spells:
4 Dromoka's Command
2 Valorous Stance
2 Abzan Charm
3 Hero's Downfall

Lands:
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Plains
2 Forest
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Malady
4 Windswept Heath
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Caves of Koilos

SB:
1 Murderous Cut
3 Drown in Sorrow
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
4 Thoughtseize
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Duress[/deck]

Not a fan of no Bile Blights in the main with all the goblin tokens running around. Also only three responses to Stormbreath main when it's very popular.

[Jamie]

warden sucks
i hate warden

[LP, of the Fires]

Bile blight stretches the mana uncomfortably and the red agro matchup is extremely favorable post board.

Stormbreath decks are interesting matchups because you're very good at getting under them and when the dragon hits play, you can often make big enough guys that you're forcing through damage while bouncing off dragon and forcing your opponent into a defensive posture.

When you're this aggressive, being afraid of there 5 drop is less of a big deal.

[LP, of the Fires]

warden sucks
i hate warden

How dare you speak ill of the noble warden.

[Khaospawn]

Probably gonna start playing this.

[deck]Creatures:
4 Warden of the First Tree
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Rakshasa Deathdealer
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Siege Rhino
2 Surrak, the Hunt Caller

Spells:
4 Dromoka's Command
2 Valorous Stance
2 Abzan Charm
3 Hero's Downfall

Lands:
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Plains
2 Forest
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Malady
4 Windswept Heath
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Caves of Koilos

SB:
1 Murderous Cut
3 Drown in Sorrow
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
4 Thoughtseize
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Duress[/deck]

Geared to beat RW?

[TBuzzsaw]

I don't think 16 sources for black is that bad really. If anything it shouldn't be hard to add one or two more.

Even if it becomes favorable post board, I'm not a fan of how it looks like it's giving game one up to red and G/R decks. I've played enough Abzan Aggro vs GR Aggro to know the less removals in your hand, the more unfavorable the match becomes. It's common to see turn two Rabbles and whatnot.

I liked the idea of Warden having his time to shine now that Wild Slashes have been preferred to Lightning Strikes, but now Draconic Roar is becoming the favored card in that slot. Dromoka's Command does help out in that case though.

Also why Self-Inflicting Wound?

[LP, of the Fires]

After I grind these 3-5 matches of hearthstone, I'll do a more in depth explanation, but warden is amazing and self-inflicted wound is the nut.

[LP, of the Fires]

Bile blight is not the answering we're looking for because it's double black that I need early and won't even necessarily get you there. I have wild slashed my own cards too many times to respect bile blight as the end all be all of red hate. I'd rather Jam Brimaz and demand that you stoke that ass or get wrecked. Seriously, Brimaz shits on people left and right.

Even if I where to add bile blight, I'd be hurting my other matchups across the board so it's not a worthwhile gain. I'd rather just stay proactive. Stance gets the nod because it's the perfect card to hold up when you have a warden in play threatening activation and is just a very versatile card while being very easy to board out in certain matchups.

Warden is both good and necessary for maintaining the agro curve. I didn't go full boswell with the creature package because it hurts the mana too much and I'm not sure how much I care about having boon satyr, but warden is a stud. It's another early drop that scales into the lategame giving you things to do with your mana and it gives a way to fight Elspeth going long without having to play garbage like wingmate roc. It's also fantastic against red agro at every stage of the game by being 1 mana removal, another fleecemane lion, and a source of lifegain going long.

Against GR, if they're playing rabblemaster, there deck sucks and if they beat you, such is life. If they aren't, you'd rather have the 25 creatures because you don't want the game dragging on as that gives them more chances to out muscle you with stormbreaths and burn you out with craters claws. The combination of Dragons roar, Claw's and Haste means you DON'T want to play the "play threat, removal" minigame because they come out ahead every time. You want to double spell early and often and firmly cement yourself as the beatdown.

As for the sideboard, I just wanted a solid mix of disruption to compliment the 4 thoughtseizes which come in against a number of decks including GR agro since there deck is half mana, 1/4 removal, 1/4 payoff. Self inflicted wound is phenomenal as it's both disruption and pressures there life total. Being able to play edict, have them lose life, attack, and follow up with any threat puts you very far ahead and wound is great in a lot of matchups including anything abzan, Gr, heroic builds, and certain configurations of jeskai.

As far as the maindeck removal suit goes, I wanted a combination of cheap and flexible answers. Downfall gets the nod due to not caring about textboxes, command is just an absurd card, and stance and charm both get the nod because they do multiple things. Blight, thoughtseize, and cut where all considerations, but they all had there own issues and I'm sticking with the aforementioned cards for now.

[Khaospawn]

So you're not the only one to Slash a goblin token, eh?

[LP, of the Fires]

I've STOKED goblin tokens.

[Jamie]

I've stoked goblin tokens in response to bile blight so many times

[Valdarith]

I threw the targeted token in my lap to fizzle the spell, then manifested it back into play.

[hamfactorial]

In response I pretend not to notice. Why aren't your tokens dead bro?

[zemanjaski]

[deck]Tiny Leader, Mono U Storm[/deck]
Tiny Leader
1 Thassa, God of the Sea

Creatures
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Trinket Mage

Artifacts
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Chromatic Sphere
1 Chromatic Star
1 Chrome Mox
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Opal
1 Sapphire Medallion

Spells
1 Brainfreze
1 Brainstorm
1 Call to Mind
1 Compulsive Research
1 Dizzy Spell
1 Frantic Search
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 High Tide
1 Ideas Unbound
1 Impulse
1 Meditate
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Opt
1 Peer Through Depths
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Relearn
1 Remand
1 Repeal
1 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
1 Thirst for Knowledge

Lands
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
10 Island

Sideboard
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Back to Basics
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Chill
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Hibernation
1 Jace Beleren
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pact of Negation
[/deck]

Sudeboard is very rough, probably needs Blue or Hydroblast.

[zemanjaski]

10th SB card is a Flusterstorm, sorry!

[Jack]

Wow. The flavor text on chill is absolutely on point.

[Jack]

I'm questioning why Thassa, though. The card doesn't do that much for you that you wouldn't be better off just playing something that gave you access to more colors.

[zemanjaski]

I mean, you can play UR or UB for storm but I don't think they're actually any better, given that weakens high tide which is your best engine.

What did you have in mind specifically.

[Jack]

Nothing in particular. I just thought that red would improve the deck. Out of curiosity, I looked at all of the potential options in blue and realized that they're all pretty awful for a spell-based combo deck.

[Purp]

Zem you should try animar storm. Can get pretty crazy with cloud fairies, man o war and clouds time curio. Win with brain freeze or grapeshot. Nin is also very good, play control with 3-4 pyro last effects until you trigger infinite mana and win with mill, lab maniac or cunning wish for banefire

[zemanjaski]

I'm interesting in seeing any lists (it's hard to find content).

[TBuzzsaw]

LP your Abzan list really grew on me after some testing. I've been playing Abzan forever and thought I knew most of the ins and outs, but it's great to learn more from great players.

[LP, of the Fires]

Fucked around with various builds of RB dragons and too my surprise deck is really good.

[LP, of the Fires]

LP your Abzan list really grew on me after some testing. I've been playing Abzan forever and thought I knew most of the ins and outs, but it's great to learn more from great players.

I learned most of it from watching my friend adam play. My motivation for picking the deck up is that he misplays approximately 1.3 times per game played and still does well(top 32'd open, 1 win from 8th/9th place).

His build had some interesting(bad) cards which I cut and I cleaned up the sideboard to be LEAN AND MEAN.

I'm also 2-0 so far in testing vs. Abzan mid which is both a vote of confidence and a testament to my topdecking abilities.

So far, if I change anything, it'll be finding a way to fit one more white source into the deck and trimming a Surrak for either a 25th land or a boon satyr. Often I find myself just sitting with it in my hand instead of slamming it to leave mana open and in those situations, it would be a great boon to have a flash creature.

[LP, of the Fires]

Realistically, should probably scrap abzan manabase completely and start from scratch with 3 brimaz main. Like, I really want to play temple of plenty, but I also need to make deathdealer non-terrible.

[TBuzzsaw]

I feel Surrak is at a good number at 2. I wouldn't want to run him as a one-of. I'd probably cut one Brimaz or Anafenza for the 25th land. So I think you could go -2 Surrak +1 Boon Satyr +1 Mana Confluence (I'd say Temple of Plenty but I don't want any more tap lands) or -1 Brimaz or Ana +1 land.

My sideboard for your list looks more like:

[deck]2 Drown in Sorrow
1 Virulent Plague
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Murderous Cut
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
4 Thoughtseize
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor[/deck]

Ascendency is a bad match up for the old Abzan list, not sure about this one. I like the one-of Plague for insurance, also for against Elspeth decks. An extra Glare would also help in the excess amount of the mirrors you may run into, not to mention Ascendency or the Heroic decks that may make a comeback thanks to Tom Ross.

Green Devotion is another bad matchup but since it's focusing more on Mastery of the Unseen, it should be better now too as long as you remove it on site along with Whisperwood. Deathmist Raptor scares me, but it can played around. If the deck takes off again, I might want to put Archfiend of Depravity in the side.

[LP, of the Fires]

Ascendency always felt like a good matchup for agro(from an ascendency player that hates the matchup). Plague is still a fine card either way as it is a giant no. I likely wouldn't want it vs. Elspeth though since it's dead otherwise against Elspeth decks.

haven't played against green devotion much, though I assume it's a great matchup with command game 1 and command+thoughtseize post board.

Not sure about cutting 3s. Anafenza is an automatic 4-of and I think brimaz dominates certain matchups though the 3 slot is kind of a clunky spot on the curve. Likely just gonna play more pain lands to address the latter issue.

Surrak is not a card I'm married to, though I like it a lot. 1 is enough. It's powerful within the gameplan, but not crucial and it's unique. It's also bad in multiples due to being a legendary, non-rhino 4 drop.

[TBuzzsaw]

I hated the Ascendency match up just because I'd never know how the opponent was going to sideboard.

[LP, of the Fires]

Default to always leaving in downfall and you'll be fine.

[Jamie]

vs abzan aggro is tokens' worst matchup.

[Pedros]

Are you sure about 4 Anafenzas? They are also legendary, might clog your hands to much?

[LP, of the Fires]

I will NOT cut anafenza.

Alternate build from my buddy that I'm arguing with on FB right now

[deck]1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor

3 Anafenza the Foremost
4 Warden of the First Tree
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Raksasha Death Dealer
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Siege Rhino

3 Hero's Downfall
4 Abzan Charm
4 Dromoka's Command

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Forest
2 Plains
4 Temple of Malady
3 Temple of Silence
3 Llanowar Waste
3 Caves of Koilos
2 Mana Confluence
4 Sandsteppe Citadel

Sideboard
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
3 Hornet's Nest
4 Thoughtsieze
2 Ultimate Price
1 Virulent Plague
2 Valorous Stance[/deck]

All we're arguing about is how good is avatar of the resolute. He says it's great, I think it's shitty heir of the wilds. His SB is pretty nice though.

[LP, of the Fires]

Anafenza's one of the class of legendary creatures where if she doesn't die, you're usually winning pretty handily and you almost always want her as your 3 mana play.

[Jamie]

I don't want to play tokens anymore. Lists like that make me sick

[TBuzzsaw]

I've done this:

[deck]
Creatures:
4 Warden of the First Tree
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Rakshasa Deathdealer
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Siege Rhino
2 Surrak, the Hunt Caller

Spells:
4 Dromoka's Command
4 Abzan Charm
4 Hero's Downfall

Lands:
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Plains
2 Forest
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malady
4 Windswept Heath
4 Llanowar Wastes
3 Caves of Koilos

SB:
2 Drown in Sorrow
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Murderous Cut
2 Hornet Nest
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
4 Thoughtseize
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
[/deck]

I'm conflicted on playing both Drown and Nest, but I like both.

[Jamie]

You should play a virulent plague in the board. You never know when one of those good tokens decks will show up
like bw shadowstriker

[Jamie]

and no other deck archetype

[TBuzzsaw]

You can't forget those scary Waste Not decks.

[Valdarith]

I don't want to play tokens anymore. Lists like that make me sick

You and me both.