[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[LP, of the Fires]

This is very much learning curve for me...I know the general Delverish gameplan from playing against it so often, but I was an aggro head. Trying to expand my boundaries here, but my tendency is still to think of more literal answers. I can see playing around Reckoner, but I know Obzedat is going to be a major fixture locally and I will likely side a direct fix considering how much room this list seems to give for dealing with everything else (I'm thinking more of his use as a grindy life drain than his actually swinging in, though I get that the plan is to strap on Pike and swing for the fence). I can also see siding in Essence Scatter for in some of the 30+ creature decks.

The essence scatter in my list is a test card, but I've
quickly learned that the best card by far against UB/x tempo is bonfire of the damned and I'd rather just have a negate if I expected Jund to be popular.

Against Reanimator, you're pretty solid so long as you either land the pike/stalker combo or can race a hardcast AoS(seeing as you'll have effectively 5-8 maindeck counters for Unburial Rites.

Against the agro decks, you actually have enough removal+augurs and a similarly low land count to attrition them out until you assemble an attacking presence.

Haven't tested versus the Aristocrats, though I think that would be a more even matchup since that deck plays a million creatures but actually has fliers and built in 2-for-1's against removal. I'd guess the matchup is probably even.

Against Obzedat, race that bitch? The only way you're realistically removing him is azorius charm+thoughtscour. Other than that, all you really have is morbid slip. The nature of obzedat makes it so that if your opponent stabilizes, that card wins the game so
you have to either make your opponent play it earlier then they want to, or have them dead the turn they cast it...which is basically the same thing.

[LP, of the Fires]

Fuck you Z for saying what I wanted in like, 2 sentences.

[windstrider]

I think the tempo loss from casting seer negates the advantage you gain from untapping with it. It's also redundant to say X-creature is scary with pike I'm also surprised that control would be your worst matchup as a member of a clan of red mages, then again, I'm not up to date with the state of Tres Grixis. Either way, going back to a deck that curves from noble up to Aristocrat reliably seems like a safe bet solid finishes.

Admittedly, I think I diluted the deck too much to kill efficiently. I got too "cute" with some of the card choices, and it hurt the effectiveness of the deck. I'm considering going back to [card]
Hellrider[/card]-based builds rather than Hellkites. Get in some quick early damage followed by Aristocrats and Hellriders to seal it.

@photodyer — I saw Verdict in two of the matchups, and I saw it and Terminus in the last round. The UB Tempo list ran a lot of kill spells and counters. Enough that I could never reliably establish a board presence. Azorius Charm was frickin' everywhere.

[LP, of the Fires]

Sounds like it's time for Knight of Infamy to get his shine on.

[zemanjaski]

Fuck you Z for saying what I wanted in like, 2 sentences.

Sadly, I am about to enter my 11th year of high level gaming You learn to distil down to the core concept after a while.

[hamfactorial]

I'm about to enter my 11th hour of blue balls. I was getting a little naughty via text message with a new prospect and the increased blood flow is causing... problems...

[zemanjaski]

Yeah, let me assure you, it can get really, really bad. The teasing is fun for a while, but it does start to sap your sanity. I realistically need to hold out another three days ~ that's pretty tough action

[hamfactorial]

Haha, first world problems dude

I'm on day 48 of the challenge, and realistically it should take me a week to bang this girl starting from the first date (2-3 dates average). I want to keep the streak, but I also don't want to have my balls explode in the meantime.

Argh! In times like this, I ask "What Would Grim Lavamancer Do?"

[Dodger]

Got top 4 tonight with Naya Blitz, but I got a bye and played shitty decks. Still got me 18 in credit which got me a Thragtusk and will cover next week's entry for free. I'll take it.

[photodyer]

Yeah, something like that.

Just a comment that occurs to me following some of your earlier questions ~ remember, the plan is still to bring your opponent to 0; not to kill everything he plays and only then win. The deck has angles to attack that the cards you're worrying about don't interact with.

I'm with that...Just having to get out of Rb mindset. One of my friends locally was one of the top Delver players in the region...his list was atypical as he ran both Stalker and Mirran Crusader and went Voltron with them based on that non-interaction (which I faced more times than I like to recall). We don't have Swords or Batterskull to work with, but I follow conceptually even though my questions were tangential. I'm also
reflecting on the differences here angle-wise from the enchantment-based Stalker lists that tried to get a foothold early in RtR Standard.

Analysis question: Am I assuming correctly that you like Saving Grasp over Orzhov Charm because of its higher efficiency and flashback compared to the utility of the charm? I'm generalizing here as Charm has limited applicability to this deck since it runs no 1-drop creatures...just a general philosophical query.

[Kazekirimaru]

Does anyone here play Tera Online? Or any MMORPG on a PvP server, for that matter?

Because I'm about ready to throw my computer out the window. Why do people at the level cap take so much joy in picking off little level 15's like myself? I just want to finish my damn quests.

As the Tumblrfags would say, I'm 500% done with this shit.

/rage

[zemanjaski]

I'm with that...Just having to get out of Rb mindset. One of my friends locally was one of the top Delver players in the region...his list was atypical as he ran both Stalker and Mirran Crusader and went Voltron with them based on that non-interaction (which I faced more times than I like to recall). We don't have Swords or Batterskull to work with, but I follow conceptually even though my questions were tangential. I'm also reflecting on the differences here angle-wise from the enchantment-based Stalker lists that tried to get a foothold early in RtR Standard.

The enchantment based decks are a creature based combo deck. They're by they're very nature much more committed to an early kill as they have very limited avenue to win a
drawn out game. The idea of this deck isn't to kill quickly, but instead to contain before killing in one or two pike hits ~ sometimes this means not starting to actually do damage until turn 8 or 9!

Analysis question: Am I assuming correctly that you like Saving Grasp over Orzhov Charm because of its higher efficiency and flashback compared to the utility of the charm? I'm generalizing here as Charm has limited applicability to this deck since it runs no 1-drop creatures...just a general philosophical query.

Kind of; Saving Grasp just lets you get a lot of value from Snappys and Augurs, while sometimes functioning as Dispel. It is just a very powerful 1 of if you're content to grind out very small edges.

[photodyer]

Sounds like it's time for Knight of Infamy to get his shine on.

I would agree, except for the fact that almost all of the control heads out my way have the temerity to be absconding with my Mountains and running burn. I haven't been able to keep KoI on the field to save my ass (literally). Of course, that would be a different story in a list like this that is running countermagic...KoI and possibly KoG seem like natural sideboard options (a la Mirran Crusader in Delver) for lists that don't have the brains to run mighty mountains. [card]Faith's Shield[/card] also seems to me a logical side for the Jund matchup. Of course, I'm thinking bass-
ackwards and identifying answers for certain problems rather than analyzing what MD cards would be weak in a given MU and need replaced. That next-level thinking is where I am trying to get, but, as is obvious, I'm not there yet.

[Dane]

Just got home from draft...didn't lose a single game. Life isn't bad. Draft Orzhov.

One of the guys there who just plays limited was willing to make a few sales on some of his past pulls, got a Domri for $10, and a Watery Grave + Breeding Pool for another $10.

At the other LGS we hang out at though...I can't effing wait for Innistrad to rotate out. Everyone still chucks Delver in their deck, and is shocked when he doesn't bring them a win. Another guy was showing me his R/g aggro deck with VD and Mayor of Avabruck. /sadpanda.

[Christen]

I'm currently at a LGS right now and didn't expect that I'll be playing 7 rounds. Currently 1-1 playing Alex's list because I wanted to try it myself.

[Helios]

Good night/morning everyone! (It's 3 am central time) I'm off to bed; had drinks with my prospect, only to learn that she's been dating a guy for like 4 years and they're just waiting to get out of college to get engaged. Why did I not know this before? So I built a Heartless Hidetsugu deck and played cards with a buddy. We played about 10 games, and they were excellent. Hidetsugu is an absolute beast. And if you want to feel extra dirty, play Glacial Chasm. I didn't even realize that interaction was there when I put Chasm in.

My favorite game? Just for shits and giggles I put every creature from Mono-red standard into the deck. Definitely went Stonewright -> Ash Zealot -> Pyreheart Wolf in a game of 1 v. 1 EDH. That was fun

At the other LGS we hang out at though...I can't effing wait for Innistrad to rotate out. Everyone still chucks Delver in their deck, and is shocked when he doesn't bring them a win. Another guy was showing me his R/g aggro deck with VD and Mayor of Avabruck. /sadpanda.

You say that like it is going to make them stop playing bad decks. I've got news for you

[Lightning_Dolt]

Good night/morning everyone! (It's 3 am central time) I'm off to bed; had drinks with my prospect, only to learn that she's been dating a guy for like 4 years and they're just waiting to get out of college to get engaged. Why did I not know this before? So I built a Heartless Hidetsugu deck and played cards with a buddy. We played about 10 games, and they were excellent. Hidetsugu is an absolute beast. And if you want to feel extra dirty, play Glacial Chasm. I didn't even realize that interaction was there when I put Chasm in.

My favorite game? Just for shits and giggles I put every creature from Mono-
red standard into the deck. Definitely went Stonewright -> Ash Zealot -> Pyreheart Wolf in a game of 1 v. 1 EDH. That was fun

At the other LGS we hang out at though...I can't effing wait for Innistrad to rotate out. Everyone still chucks Delver in their deck, and is shocked when he doesn't bring them a win. Another guy was showing me his R/g aggro deck with VD and Mayor of Avabruck. /sadpanda.

You say that like it is going to make them stop playing bad decks. I've got news for you

Only beating them weekly will convince them to use good decks.

[Christen]

Alex, your list is performing way better than I expected. I'm currently 4-1-1 and waiting for the last swiss round. Lost only to RG aggro so far.

[zemanjaski]

UB midrange built around Crypt Ghast, Evil Twin, card draw and Griselbrand? Think Conley Woods PT deck but UB instead of BR; that seems better to me.

[Alex]

Alex is probably the best to ask about dega token decks. I certainly think it's viable for FNM, same with BW.

I haven't played the deck a ton as an aggro deck, I mostly played that Storm list. It was RWb, black was strictly for Lingering Souls. If I were going to try and beat someone's face in, I would try something like this.

[deck]
Creature (9)
4 Hellrider
3 Boros Reckoner
2 Instigator Gang

Spells (27)
4 Intangible Virtue
3 Boros Charm
2 Magmaquake
4 Midnight Haunting
4 Searing Spear
3 Burn at the Stake
4 Krenko's Command
4 Lingering Souls

Mana (23)
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Godless Shrine
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Slayers' Stronghold

Sideboard
(15)
1 Legion Loyalist
3 Rhox Faithmender
2 Rest in Peace
2 Dynacharge
3 Rally the Peasants
2 Reverberate
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Burn at the Stake[/deck]

It's probably horrible but I threw it together on the spot. Here's the reason I like some of this stuff.

Reverberate: Perfectly acceptable spell to have in your list in a list with 27 spells. Paying 4 mana to produce 4 tokens is reasonable. Copying Sphinx's Revelation is also acceptable. As is countering coutermagic.
Instigator Gang: Serves as Hellriders #5 and 6. Also sometimes just flips and goes apeshit.
Magmaquake: A board wipe with little downside to you.
Dynacharge/Rally the Peasants: Ups your threat density against control matchups. Makes it so that even 2 or 3 tokens can just randomly win you the game.
Boros Reckoner: Not a token, but
he clogs up the ground pretty well.

Weaknesses the deck had in my experiences playing it pre-GTC: The first few turns are fairly miserable. Playing Intangible Virtue always feels clunky. It also has a rough time against esper tokens since they make your biggest strength (massive evasion) not as effective. You're also pretty weak to combo. I should address this since Charms is a deck.

Strengths of the deck: Burn at the Stake is a real card and this deck plays it better than almost every other deck. Almost all of your spells are worth more than one dude, so you're actually playing more "creatures" than almost any other deck in the format.

I don't know, I'm open to ideas. Like I said, I just tossed this together on the fly.

[Alex]

Alex, your list is performing way better than I expected. I'm currently 4-1-1 and waiting for the last swiss round. Lost only to RG aggro so far.

Which one? My Boros list? I'm not shocked by this whatsoever, my record is astronomical with the deck. (Well above 50%.)

[zemanjaski]

I tested with RW tokens a while back. Legion Loyalist is filthy.

[zemanjaski]

I wasn't running the black splash, so I had no Lingering Souls which is very likely just wrong. I did have a bunch if Hellion Crucibles though and 5/5 vigilant first striking trampling Hellions will ruin someone's day. Seriously though; black for dreadbore, vault and souls seems ideal; first person to say blood artist gets my wrath.

[Alex]

I wasn't running the black splash, so I had no Lingering Souls which is very likely just wrong. I did have a bunch if Hellion Crucibles though and 5/5 vigilant first striking trampling Hellions will ruin someone's day. Seriously though; black for dreadbore, vault and souls seems ideal; first person to say blood artist gets my wrath.

Were you playing Burn at the Stake? Because you should have been. That card always feels good when you cast it, even if you're casting it with only 3 dudes on board.

[Solemn10]

With everyone talking about anime, has anyone seen fairy tail? It's about a fire Mage who kicks ass and destroys most everything around when he fights

[Alex]

Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god! http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/A ... /03282013c

[windstrider]

Sounds like it's time for Knight of Infamy to get his shine on.

Oh, he's very much a presence in the deck. He doesn't work so well against Verdict and Terminus, though. And, as photo noted, a lot of the lists are running red removal. He and Stromkirk Noble did a lot of work against those lists, which is why I'm thinking a faster, Hellrider-based list would be good vs. them.

I feel like I need card draw of some kind since I find myself getting land-flooded, land-screwed, or just running out of gas too soon. But that may just be the wrong mindset taking over. As z said, the goal is to kill them not just their monsters. I'm becoming too focused on monster killing
and not player killing.

[zemanjaski]

I wasn't; but I was running Rally, which is similarly feel good.

[deck]
4 Crypt Ghast
4 Evil Twin
3 Griselbrand

4 Heartless Summoning
4 Forbidden Alchemy
4 Mutilate
2 Rewind
2 Syncopate
4 Think Twice
4 Victim of Night

4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Watery Grave
3 Island
14 Swamp[/deck]

It's possible I want Increasing Ambition or something as another way to use all the mana the deck generates; but once you have multiple ghasts down, that's typically game anyway, as you draw through your entire deck and extort them to death (plus, draw a million cards).

[zemanjaski]

Actually; the deck probably does need Chromatic Lantern so that you have unlimited blue to go off with.

[Dodger]

I hate being up this early on a Saturday. Fuck

[Christen]

Alex, your list is performing way better than I expected. I'm currently 4-1-1 and waiting for the last swiss round. Lost only to RG aggro so far.

Which one? My Boros list? I'm not shocked by this whatsoever, my record is astronomical with the deck. (Well above 50%.)

Yep. I ended up 5-1-1 placing 7th after swiss. My last opponent wasn't there though so it's technically 4-1-1. After playoffs I lost to Kessig Bant due to a bad series of mulls game 1 (mull to 4), so actual total is 4-2-1.

I like how the deck worked despite the lack of direct burn. My
opponents always get surprised that the list runs Restoration Angels. I didn't get to use Aurelia's Fury too much, so it's possible that there might be some better cards in that slot. I ran Blind Obedience on the sideboard and used it twice (once against R/x aggro and Kessig Bant). It really does some work specially against midrange.

My matchups:
R/g Aggro - 1/2
Mono Red Aggro - 2-0
Rakdos Vampires Aggro - 2-1
Junk Reanimator 2-1
Esper Control 1-1-1
R/g Aggro 2-1
Kessig Bant 0-2

This convinces me that Boros should take the midrangey approach, at least for the current meta. Junk Frites was everywhere. There were 2 frites list in the top 8 I believe.

[windstrider]

I hate being up this early on a Saturday. Fuck

Agreed. I've been up two hours already thanks to a 2-year old who apparently doesn't need sleep.

I feel like I need to be in Bad Magic Players Anonymous after last night. "Hi. I'm Dan, and I'm a bad Magic player." <<sobs>>

[photodyer]

I hate being up this early on a Saturday. Fuck

Agreed. I've been up two hours already thanks to a 2-year old who apparently doesn't need sleep.

I feel like I need to be in Bad Magic Players Anonymous after last night. "Hi. I'm Dan, and I'm a bad Magic player." <<sobs>>

My friend, you and I can be charter members...but don't beat yourself up too bad over last night. Variance aside, you walked into a room that is currently tuned to take down aggro...you carried a knife into a gun fight. Shit doth happen...as doth [card:
l5cf621a]Blind Obedience[/card].

[Alex]

I like how the deck worked despite the lack of direct burn. My opponents always get surprised that the list runs Restoration Angels. I didn't get to use Aurelia's Fury too much, so it's possible that there might be some better cards in that slot. I ran Blind Obedience on the sideboard and used it twice (once against R/x aggro and Kessig Bant). It really does some work specially against midrange.

I stopped playing [card]Aurelia's Fury[/card] after the GP, I decided to add another Midnight Haunting and a miser [card]Krenko's Command[/card]. I actually think I might be replacing Ash Zealots with [card]Krenko's Command[/card], it makes the mana way less awkward.

I don't think Blind Obedience is a good card, even against blitz decks. You already win those matchups
with Faithmenders.

[windstrider]

I hate being up this early on a Saturday. Fuck

Agreed. I've been up two hours already thanks to a 2-year old who apparently doesn't need sleep.

I feel like I need to be in Bad Magic Players Anonymous after last night. "Hi. I'm Dan, and I'm a bad Magic player." <<sobs>>

My friend, you and I can be charter members...but don't beat yourself up too bad over
last night. Variance aside, you walked into a room that is currently tuned to take down aggro...you carried a knife into a gun fight. Shit doth happen...as doth Blind Obedience.

Yeah, variance kicked my ass all through last night. I got stuck on one land in one game, and then couldn't draw a black source for three turns in another. I am really tired of sitting on Aristocrats and not being able to cast them. But variance aside, a faster, more tuned list would be better equipped to handle those kinds of situations. I could get them down to 4-5 life but not be able to seal it. I feel like I misplayed a lot.

That's kinda funny since I easily ran over the one guy playing Blind Obedience. To be fair, though, his deck wasn't very good to begin with, and I felt kinda bad for beating him up so badly. But how do you play a R/W list with no direct removal? He seemed rather resistant to using Spears and Pillars. I like the wins, but not when it feels like I beat
up a two-year old to get them. I did get to use Izzet Charm to counter a BO in the second game, so that at least felt good.

In other news, the preliminary injunction order against my ex-wife arrived yesterday. Even if she gets out of jail, she's not allowed to see our daughter except through supervised visitation for one hour per week. I can give that to the school as well, so she can't get her there either. I wish I could have seen her reaction.

[zemanjaski]

Blind Obedience sucks.

[Alex]

Everyone cheer for my friend Jared, he's at SCG Orlando right now playing Naya Hellkite.

[windstrider]

Blind Obedience sucks.

Absolutely. The extort triggers on it were more useful than its tapping ability.

What is everyone's thoughts about Thrill-kill Assassin? I keep looking at her as an option against creature-heavy lists alongside Hellrider and Legion Loyalist. Should I try it out or should I get swatted with a newspaper for thinking that way?

[Christen]

I like how the deck worked despite the lack of direct burn. My opponents always get surprised that the list runs Restoration Angels. I didn't get to use Aurelia's Fury too much, so it's possible that there might be some better cards in that slot. I ran Blind Obedience on the sideboard and used it twice (once against R/x aggro and Kessig Bant). It really does some work specially against midrange.

I stopped playing [card]Aurelia's Fury[/card] after the GP, I decided to add another Midnight Haunting and a miser [card]Krenko's Command[/card]. I actually think I might be replacing Ash Zealots with [card]Krenko's
Command[/card], it makes the mana way less awkward.

I don't think Blind Obedience is a good card, even against blitz decks. You already win those matchups with Faithmenders.

I'm not sure if I want to cut on Ash Zealot right now, but if I have to play Krenko's Command, I would maindeck a couple of Rally the Peasants. I wanted to try BO against aggro, so I sided it in one one match, and I probably won't in my next games. However I'm still siding it in against midrange.

Blind Obedience sucks.

It does against aggro. It's a house against midrange IMHO. Everytime I drop it on them they always blame their loss on that card.

[zemanjaski]

TKA is fine, I played it in Dos Rakis before and was happy.

Most midrange players are garbo, of course they blame a garbo card for their loss.