[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:20 pm

Yeah, it's real busted as an instant haha.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:27 pm

Yeah, it's real busted as an instant haha.

A red mage has to have hope! Or just burn everything...yeah, that works.

And I guess overall, there will be some potent options for the right decks to take down Rev. Between Skullcrack, RR and T&T, the potential is there for, say, Mostly Black Control to nuke the lifegain/draw plan. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the set shapes out.

Christen · Postby **Christen** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:52 pm

2R as a sorcery is a bit meh though. They are mostly always packing a counterspell in their hand so yeah.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:12 pm

2R as a sorcery is a bit meh though. They are mostly always packing a counterspell in their hand so yeah.

True, but having it tied to the replacement for SiB means it will see some play...

Alex · Postby **Alex** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:39 pm

Just got ANOTHER warning on MTGS, apparently I created another account to avoid my ban. (I didn't, lol.) Officially went from suspended indefinitely to banned. Oh no!

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:45 pm

You may not have made one, but you were surely thinking about it... that's where they get ya.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:47 pm

Hey there RT--how was the trip?

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:54 pm

Fun.

My sister and her husband are really cool people and my daughter got to ride her first rollercoaster. Weather was beautiful, park wasn't crowded (average wait time for a ride was like 15 minutes), and my little girl had a blast.

All-in-all just a generally perfect weekend.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:10 pm

Outstanding, good sir...my daughter is an absolute coaster hound, which is something we get to share because my son won't go near them. She wants to take a trip of to Ohio to hit the coaster parks...definitely Daddy's girl!

Glad to have you back, man!

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:12 pm

Good to be back. How was your weekend?

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:17 pm

Long time no see Flames, I'm just jumping aboard the new site.

Anyone else go to the TCG 5k in Providence this past weekend?

I brought this White-Weenie deck with a splash of red that Craig Wescoe came up with and did pretty decent going 7-2 for 21st place of 300, got $50 and a playmat so not too bad. For my standards at least I had been looking to get over the hump for bigger events and this is the best I've done at a 300+ person event.

Good Morning everybody. Looks like lots of events were had this weekend. Happy 25th, Z - hope you're still sleeping it off (or that you bounced back like a champ).

I went to the Providence 5k also. It was my first larger-than-FNM since Ponder rotated. I think there were actually 279 people
there, but still a good showing definitely. Congrats on placing 21st! Here's a quick breakdown of how I did.

I brought:
[deck]
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Flinthoof Boar
2 Lightning Mauler
2 Pyreheart Wolf
2 Hellrider
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
4 Rancor
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Temple Garden
10 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Boros Reckoner
1 Pyreheart Wolf
1 Hellrider
3 Flames of the Firebrand
3 Volcanic Strength
2 Traitorous Blood
2 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]

Round 1: vs. Naya Blitz. 2-0
This wasn't the standard Blitz deck. He had made some changes, and not good ones. Apparently he thinks Silverblade Paladin is a fast card and he think Experiment One is a weird card. Ok. I thumped him without challenge 2-0. No real notes because neither game lasted longer than 5 turns and the 1 Champion of the Parish I saw was quickly burned.

Yay first round victory, nerves are out of the system.

Round 2: vs Jund. 1-
2
Blech. Won game 1 on the play, then lost the next two games. Had to mulligan to 5 in both games and even after that ended up getting flooded out. Olivia killed what I could get on the board game 3 and I didn't have a chance.

Eek, 1-1. Wonder how the day's going to go...

Round 3: vs. UWR Flash. 2-0
Beat this guy like a drum. I'm a nice guy, and I didn't say/do anything jerkish, but this guy tilted big time. He seemed pretty disgusted that his deck didn't work. And after game 2 he said "I would have won if you didn't have so many boars." Well, stop putting a haste creature you don't like back on top of my library then. Try killing it instead. If I could put 8 Flinthoof Boars in my 60 I would, thanks for making it happen.

Phew, 2-1. Starting to get that confidence back.

Round 4: Esper token/control. 2-0
I've lost to Esper before, but this guy's deck seemed like it couldn't choose between the Esper control lists and the Esper tokens lists and instead tried to do
both. He dropped Sorin both games, which I ignored both games because he was on the ropes. This is the only match I got a BTE nut draw the entire day, and turn 4 was swinging with the team + Pyreheart Wolf. Tokens be damned when they can't even chump. Oh and Ash Zealot really makes people think twice about flashing back Lingering Souls.

3-1 on the day so far, I'm the king of the world!

Round 5: vs. UWR Flash 0-2
Different pilot same deck as round 3. Much different results. This deck was humming along, and I mulled to 4 in game 1. I also flooded out in game 2. He ended up beating me up with Snaps and Resto attacks.

3-2. Back down to earth.

Round 6: vs. Naya Blitz. 1-2
He curved out perfectly game 1 and I had mulled to 6. Well timed Boros Charms for him did me in. I sided in Flames of the Firebrand and Volcanic Strength, taking out Cacklers and a Rancor. Game two on the play I curved out well and raced him for the win, using a Volcanic Strength. Sided out Volcanic for Boros
Reckoners. Game 3 I mulled to 5 and kept a hand I should have dropped to go down to 4 instead. Then I flooded out somehow. In retrospect, I should have kept my original 7: Mountain, Temple Garden, Stomping Ground, Rootbound Crag, Pillar of Flame, Searing Spear, Flames of the Firebrand. Completely creatureless, but I would have been able to control his fast start while trying to get something going. Certainly iffy, but was better than what actually happened.

3-3. Yikes, should I drop? Let's play another round and see...

Round 7: vs. RDW. 2-1
This guy thought he was hot shit. Well, I'm a red mage - I know how your deck works. Game 1 it seemed like I saw all the burn spells in the format. I couldn't stick creatures for more than a turn, and he finished the game with a morbid Brimstone to my dome. Game 2 I side in a 3rd Pyreheart, 3rd Hellrider, and 3 Volcanic Strengths. I see 1 Hellrider but I curved out perfectly and was too fast and large for him. Rancor on Ash Zealot is nice. Game 3 I
kept Volcanic Strength in because he hadn't seen it in Game 2. I ended up putting it on a T4 Hellrider when he had a Reckoner on his side. Morbid volley, 2for2, or I keep my Hellrider, beeyotch! I kept it and rode it to victory. He had a misplay where I swing with my team and he elected to redirect to a BTE instead of me. Depending on draws it's possible he could have raced me otherwise. He saw the misplay and extended his hand.

4-3. Ok, still just X-3. It's possible I can top 32, I'll play another round and see how it goes.

Round 8: vs. Bant Enchant. 2-0.
Game 1 I didn't know what this guy was playing - all I saw was a Hinterland Harbor, Breeding Pool, and Avacyn's Pilgrim (which I Pillar'ed before he could tap it). I thought maybe it was Wolf Run Bant so I brought in Traitorous Bloods. Turns out it was Bant Enchant, but I curved out well in game 2, didn't see the would-be dead card in Traitorous Blood, and took the match. He had a stalker without a pike on it and kept hitting me
for 1 when I was hitting him for 7+ a turn. Nice kid though.

5-3. Ok, things are starting to look up again. If I go 6-3 then it's possible I can top 32, get $50 (entry fee was $30) and a playmat.

Round 9: Last Round of Swiss: vs. Junk Reanimator. 1-2.
Turns out this guy was an old friend of one of my friends who came along for the day (my friend only played side events). He was a really nice guy. Game 1 I curve out perfectly and swarm kill him. Games 2 and 3 he had apparently (he told me after the match) boarded in 12 cards to turn from a heavy reanimator package to a heavy lifegain package. Both games 2 and 3 were mulligan to 5 card games for me, and both ended with him hard-casting Angel of Serenity and taking a boar, a zealot, and another of my creatures. Game 3 I had a misplay. I had boar, boar, zealot, BTE on the board and he had centaur healer and rhox faithmender. He was at 12 life. I speared the healer to get as many creatures through as possible, but he had already started
blocking with the faithmender. I should have held the spear and finished the faithmender with it after combat damage. His next turn was Angel of Serenity my board goes down boar, boar, zealot. His next turn was Thragtusk, gain 10. We were at time and the writing was on the wall so I scooped.

Fun day, but a day FULL of variance. I saw the nut draw (multiple BTEs into LM) once out of 22 total games. And on 20 land I flooded a LOT. I know that's variance, and I'm not going to drop the land count. But that's frustrating.

Multiple games that I lost were due to a lack of reach. 6 MB burn and 3 in side that can hit a player. Nothing to interact with flying. I'm thinking of changing this deck up a bit and going more toward a traditional sligh build. Here's a quick first draft:

[deck]
Creatures - 25
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Flinthoof Boar
2 Skarrg Guildmage
2 Hellrider
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Thundermaw Hellkite

Non-creatures - 12
3 Rancor
4 Searing
Spear
2 Pillar of Flame
3 Brimstone Volley

Land - 23
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Temple Garden
13 Mountain
[/deck]

That's just a first draft and I'm still testing it out. Guildmage is the obvious "test" card in there, but I really like having all the haste and being able to give them all trample, or make a dude out of a land. Great for flooding, same body as a BTE (though not the acceleration). And without a 3 drop I can drop down multiple 1 and 2 drops, hold some burn, use Guildmage, etc. Options are nice. Pyreheart would be in the side, though.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:19 pm

Busy! My son had the final drumline competition of the season about 150miles south of here, so we spent Saturday traveling down and back for that. We got to hang with my sister a bit while we were there, which was cool, but it was a long day.

I just found out last night that my ex managed to get fired from her job (not surprising really as she's obviously been altered lately) so child support from her will be wrenched. She's not taking my calls, nor have the kids spoken to her for weeks...I had to find this out from her sister. A stupid bloody mess...

Link · Postby **Link** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:47 pm

Another example of UWr players being douchebags? Color me surprised.

@Johnny_Spike, I don't know about the DIFFERENCES between rule sets, but I know that trigger rules officially are basically this now:
Nothing has to be declared until a decision has to be made or ti ACTIVELY affects the board state.

So, being indestructible doesn't affect the board state until you try to spear something and they move their card to the GY or they declare indestructible.

Examples:
You attack with Pyreheart wolf. You don't have declare the trigger UNTIL they try to make illegal blocks.
You attack with Firefist striker battalion: You must immediately declare the trigger because it affects the board state in declare blockers (who can't block until rest of turn?)
You cast a instant with Guttersnipe on the board, you IMMEDIATELY must call the trigger because it is "as you cast" and affects the board state because it deals
damage to life totals, you have to do this before resolving the spell you cast or it is missed.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:28 pm

Re: Mono Black Vampires. It is a VERY good list. I played it in the Standard Premier on Saturday and I won the match by the skin of my teeth. It does some pretty nasty things.

I tested All-In Red last night and did not like it one bit. I played six matches and won one. It could have been bad luck but I found myself mulliganing a LOT, and I was also playing a lot of midrange/control builds and getting my opponent really low but he'd always recover. I just don't think the deck has enough gas.

EDIT: I'll also say that all of this midrange/control crap on MTGO really makes me want to just shove in as many undying creatures as I can in a RG deck with Kessig Wolf Run and force them to answer it.

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:32 pm

Re: Mono Black Vampires. It is a VERY good list. I played it in the Standard Premier on Saturday and I won the match by the skin of my teeth. It does some pretty nasty things.

I tested All-In Red last night and did not like it one bit. I played six matches and won one. It could have been bad luck but I found myself mulliganing a LOT, and I was also playing a lot of midrange/control builds and getting my opponent really low but he'd always recover. I just don't think the deck has enough gas.

EDIT: I'll also say that all of this midrange/control crap on MTGO really makes me want to just shove in as many undying creatures as I can in a RG deck with Kessig Wolf Run and force them to answer it.

I had the same thought a while ago, though
this certainly isn't a tuned deck: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/undying-gruul-1/

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:45 pm

Re: Mono Black Vampires. It is a VERY good list. I played it in the Standard Premier on Saturday and I won the match by the skin of my teeth. It does some pretty nasty things.

I tested All-In Red last night and did not like it one bit. I played six matches and won one. It could have been bad luck but I found myself mulliganing a LOT, and I was also playing a lot of midrange/control builds and getting my opponent really low but he'd always recover. I just don't think the deck has enough gas.

EDIT: I'll also say that all of this midrange/control crap on MTGO really makes me want to just
shove in as many undying creatures as I can in a RG deck with Kessig Wolf Run and force them to answer it.
I had the same thought a while ago, though this certainly isn't a tuned deck: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/undying-gruul-1/

That's a similar direction with what I was going with. I'll post my untuned list when I can get it on paper from memory.

Alex · Postby **Alex** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:52 pm

Well, here's some proof that MTGS is stalking us.

I did what?
You created a new account to evade your suspension.
Pretty sure I didn't do that. We've moved to a different forum. Only reason I even notice the warning was email alerts.
That's so weird. Because some guy named Alexander showed up posting in Rx threads with a link in his sig to that different forum where you are known as Alex.

Nice try.
Thanks for proving my theory. We knew you were stalking us. Get baited.[/quote:
1wrt170b]

Alex · Postby **Alex** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:54 pm

There's more PMs where he pretends like he knew "because of my IP," but as stated previous, I connected via proxy, so he's full of it. I don't have the heart to tell him, though, so I'm just letting him think he's got me.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:57 pm

What about this?

[deck]
Creatures (29)
4 Experiment One
4 Young Wolf
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Flinthoof Boar
3 Borderland Ranger
3 Pyreheart Wolf
3 Hound of Griselbrand
4 Deadbridge Goliath

Spells (7)
4 Searing Spear
3 Mizzium Mortars

Lands (24)
3 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Mountain
10 Forest
[/deck]

Platypus · Postby **Platypus** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:00 pm

^I like the look of that deck!

Platypus · Postby **Platypus** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:05 pm

I have to look into that mono-black vampire deck a bit more. Bloodline Keeper is a card I wanted for my MBC deck, but I didn't get them since I quit developing it. That there's a somewhat successful mono-black deck out there gives me hope that there's some potential in my demon-based as well.

Kazekirimaru · Postby **Kazekirimaru** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:07 pm

Goodness gracious.

Anybody else swooning over Ral Zarek? (no homo?)

I'm so happy to see a formidable planeswalker and not another Tibalt.

Self Medicated · Postby **Self Medicated** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:08 pm

Just checking in on day 21 of the Ham Challenge. I'm having a hard time with eating crap on the weekends. My wife persuaded me to get fish and chips on Saturday, which I'm sure is horrible for me (grease and fat), but it sure tasted great!

On the MTG side of my life, I almost have my R/G modern deck completely assembled. Just a couple more Arid Mesa and I'm good.

Alex · Postby **Alex** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:10 pm

Goodness gracious.

Anybody else swooning over Ral Zarek? (no homo?)

I'm so happy to see a formidable planeswalker and not another Tibalt.

Ral Zarek is unplayable trash unfortunately. He would be exponentially better if karoo lands were in the format like they were in the previous Ravnica, but the way he sits now, I wouldn't put him in any deck.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:12 pm

There's more PMs where he pretends like he knew "because of my IP," but as stated previous, I connected via proxy, so he's full of it. I don't have the heart to tell him, though, so I'm just letting him think he's got me.

I'm sure he'll read about it here.

Regarding Ral Zarek, if his +1 kept whatever tapped for a turn I think I'd love him, as is - I'm not really sure.

Alex · Postby **Alex** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:14 pm

Regarding Ral Zarek, if his +1 kept whatever tapped for a turn I think I'd love him, as is - I'm not really sure.

Yeah, exactly. He doesn't protect himself unless you're playing him post combat, but what deck that's playing his colors will have enough dudes to protect him? I can't think of any.

hamfactorial · Postby **hamfactorial** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:14 pm

Great work, Self! A treat now and then isn't going to mess you up, just don't make fried fish and chips a normal thing.

Day 58 here, woo!

I had a lovely lady over last night and we polished off a tasty bottle of pinot noir. They can't resist all my free testosterone. Yeah, that's it...

Kazekirimaru · Postby **Kazekirimaru** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:16 pm

Meh. To each, their own, I suppose. It seems like any time a new walker is spoiled the general consensus is "Trash mythic, no play." Then someone cracks in at a pre-release and steamrolls everyone else with it. All of a sudden it's 20 dollars.

Alex · Postby **Alex** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:19 pm

Meh. To each, their own, I suppose. It seems like any time a new walker is spoiled the general consensus is "Trash mythic, no play." Then someone cracks in at a pre-release and steamrolls everyone else with it. All of a sudden it's 20 dollars.

It's unplayable in constructed, I mean. There are lots of "bad" rares that are fine in limited. I would never play Molten Primordial in constructed, but I'm always fairly stoked to see it in limited.

Kazekirimaru · Postby **Kazekirimaru** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:24 pm

Meh. To each, their own, I suppose. It seems like any time a new walker is spoiled the general consensus is "Trash mythic, no play." Then someone cracks in at a pre-release and steamrolls everyone else with it. All of a sudden it's 20 dollars.
It's unplayable in constructed, I mean. There are lots of "bad" rares that are fine in limited. I would never play Molten Primordial in constructed, but I'm always fairly stoked to see it in limited.

I seem to recall Domri Rade being a &
quot;bad" rare.

People seem to be missing the fact that his first ability says tap/untap target permanent. Not creature, not non-land, permanent. That means you can untap your own land, and tap one of theirs. Does that not appeal to anybody else?

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:27 pm

Ral is fo sho going in my EDH deck. That's all I have to say about that.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:27 pm

It would if it kept their land tapped for their turn...

Kazekirimaru · Postby **Kazekirimaru** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:30 pm

It would if it kept their land tapped for their turn...

Setting control decks back by keeping a land tapped on your turn is nothing to scoff at. There's a reason Thalia sees so much play, after all.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:34 pm

Thalia makes every one of their spells cost 1 more.

Ral makes their spells that they cast on our turn cost 1 more assuming they can't cast it in response.

I think if it's going to find use, it'll do so in an aggressive deck that taps down one of their blockers and untaps one of your lands/utility creatures/artifacts. Now, I don't hate it for that use - I just don't know if that use is good enough.

Kazekirimaru · Postby **Kazekirimaru** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:38 pm

Thalia makes every one of their spells cost 1 more.

Ral makes their spells that they cast on our turn cost 1 more assuming they can't cast it in response.

I think if it's going to find use, it'll do so in an aggressive deck that taps down one of their blockers and untaps one of your lands/utility creatures/artifacts. Now, I don't hate it for that use - I just don't know if that use is good enough.

Fair enough. Well, I'll happily be an advocate for the card, if a lone one. If it doesn't work out, meh. I play casual, too.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:03 pm

I'm not saying that it is definitely bad, just that if the +1 kept the target tapped then it'd be great, but - as-is - I don't know.

Some cards I know will be good or bad - this one I don't.

Alex · Postby **Alex** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:10 pm

Meh. To each, their own, I suppose. It seems like any time a new walker is spoiled the general consensus is "Trash mythic, no play." Then someone cracks in at a pre-release and steamrolls everyone else with it. All of a sudden it's 20 dollars.
It's unplayable in constructed, I mean. There are lots of "bad" rares that are fine in limited. I would never play [card]Molten
Primordial[/card] in constructed, but I'm always fairly stoked to see it in limited.
I seem to recall Domri Rade being a "bad" rare.

People seem to be missing the fact that his first ability says tap/untap target permanent. Not creature, not non-land, permanent. That means you can untap your own land, and tap one of theirs. Does that not appeal to anybody else?

That's a pretty ignorant argument, but I think even you know that it's a pretty weak one. Straw man points don't last very long in FoS. After all, straw burns quickly.

Also see how I mentioned karoo lands. I do realize it says permanent, but that doesn't even change anything, because there is no noncreature permanent worth wasting 2 mana to untap right now. (2 if we're taking into account that he costs 4 and that's only half of the effect.)

If he ever sees play, it
will be for his Staggershock-ish -2. I might be willing to pay 4 for the potential to cast multiple Lightning Bolts.

Kazekirimaru · Postby **Kazekirimaru** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:26 pm

That's a pretty ignorant argument, but I think even you know that it's a pretty weak one. Straw man points don't last very long in FoS. After all, straw burns quickly.

I fail to see how I'm making such an argument. I'm not trying to say that we should love it because if we hated all new cards, we'd never use any. I'm merely pointing out the fact that people tend to dislike new planeswalkers at first.

windstrider · Postby **windstrider** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:40 pm

Ral Zarek looks fun and interesting, so I want one to try him out. He'd be interesting with creatures with activated abilities that require them to tap.

Alex · Postby **Alex** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:45 pm

That's a pretty ignorant argument, but I think even you know that it's a pretty weak one. Straw man points don't last very long in FoS. After all, straw burns quickly.
I fail to see how I'm making such an argument. I'm not trying to say that we should love it because if we hated all new cards, we'd never use any. I'm merely pointing out the fact that people tend to dislike new planeswalkers at first.

A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,[1][2] is a
type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[3] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[3][4] This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged, emotional issues.

By comparing it to how people felt about Domri Rade, you're inadvertently trying to lump everyone who dislikes this new planeswalker with "Well everyone hates new tech, look at this other card people hated!" It's a very weak stance.

Card evaluation is based on a lot of factors and is very subjective, but if we're going to debate I'd rather do it properly.

Dies to Removal

[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

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