Big Red

[Sneaky Homunculus]

So I've was following the Mono Red Control thread over at MTGS the last few days. A lot of the ideas were intrigueing, but the thread got derailed into futile arguing and was locked. Somebody mentioned that this board might spawn more fruitful discussion.

The general concept is that rather then taking the aggor path and crushing the opponent as fast as possible with swarms of creatures and burn, this red deck would focusing on controlling the board early on and winning with a few select bombs. Over the last few days, SCG has had some articles extoling the benefits of running Burning Earth main board. (Link and Link) In the current meta, the
majority of decks are running three colors and very few basic lands. Resolving a Burning Earth pretty much means that if they do not have a commanding presence on board already, everything they do thereafter will gradually drain them into burn range.

For creatures, a few are pretty obvious to include in a deck like this. Boros Reckoner is an all around house, being a brickwall to aggro and even a possible win condition if one chose to play Blasphemous Act. For the big bomby finisher, we have a choice between Thundermaw Hellkite and Scourge of Valkas. Hellkite has haste and clears the way for its first attack. Valkas may seem inferior, being of smaller size and not as haste-y but it has its own perks. The ETB ping may not seem like much, but can take care of some threats when combined with other burn; with another Valkas entering with one on board, the
ping is substantially better. Perhaps the main reason to run Valkas over Hellkite is the firebreathing ability. A late game mana sink is welcome once most of our cheap burn has been expended. [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] rounds out the creature suite; it synergizes well with all the burn we are packing and works especially well with New Chandra.

Speaking of Chandra, Pyromaster, I love her in this deck. Her first ability is reasonably useful; recurring Phoenix, killing x/1s, and removing blockers for our dragons. Her 0 ability is what really shines in this deck. You are almost never going to exile a card that you cannot use, making it very comparable to raw card draw. Her ult, while potentially back breaking, is best saved for go for broke situations where getting lucky of it is the best avenue for victory.

As far as burn goes, there are a variety of options available in standard right now. With several undying creatures still floating around, as
well as Voice of Resurgence, Pillar of Flame is an auto-include in the Main Deck. The rest can be a combination of [cards]Searing Spear, Mizzium Mortars, Flames of the Firebrand, Shock,[/cards] or anything else I may have overlooked. Lands are straight mountains, with playset of Mutavaults thrown in.

There were a variety of opinions of whether or not splashing another color was necessary, and if so, which color. Black and White seemed to be the biggest contenders for out purposes, but I'll leave that up to future discussion. Personally I am leaning towards remaining monored, with some personal card choices. I believe Faithless Looting would be an great source of CA, filtering extraneous lands and netting raw card draw with even one Phoenix in hand.

Well then, that ended up being a lot longer than I anticipated.
Thoughts? Do you think something along these lines
would be viable in the months leading up until rotation?

[redthirst]

I think a splash of B is the way to play the deck. For reference, here's the Midrange deck I'd regularly board into for games 2 and 3 - it was still fast, but also very Midrange-y:

[deck]Creatures: 22
4 Ash Zealot
4 Spike Jester
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
3 Olivia Voldaren
3 Thundermaw Hellkite

Spells: 14
4 Dreadbore
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Searing Spear
3 Rakdos's Return

Lands: 24
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Godless Shrine
12 Mountains[/deck]

Some points:
-Mutavault is an obvious inclusion (even with Reckoner - maybe not as a 4-of, but it's just too good not to play in some number).
-Chandra, Pyromancer is probably pretty good, though it does whiff on Rakdos's Return and is competing in an already pretty swole 4-drop slot.
-Phoenix doesn't deserve consideration over Reckoner in a more defensive build like this one IMO.
-Searing Spear can probably be something else: +1
Mortars +3 Doom Blade maybe (though, how good is Doom Blade in the current meta? Honestly wondering here.)

[windstrider]

If the aim is to control the board to drop bigger creatures, then Flames of the Firebrand should be considered since it can kill multiple smaller creatures, kill one larger creature, or go to the dome as needed. I'd almost suggest it in place of Rakdos's Return in the main. It would also work amazingly good with Chandra, Pyromaster if space could be found for her.

I'd also start with 2 Mutavaults and test to see if they work with the manabase. -2 Mountains, +2 Mutavault. That may be a tad conservative, but it would still leave 22 Red, 12 Black, 4 White, and 2 Colorless. Test it and then add more 'vaults to find the sweet spot.

[Alex]

I don't think you're really incentivized to play a mono-colored control deck, especially considering that there isn't a relevant spell that checks for mountains, nor is there anything worth playing that's more color-intensive than Boros Reckoner. Burning Earth is not a good enough on its own to justify playing a mono colored deck when you can play 4 shocks and all basics and still very likely be fine.

People played mono-black control for this specific set of reasons. There were spells that cared about the number of swamps you controlled (Lashwrithe, Mutilate, Corrupt, etc) and a lot of spells that simply had double casting costs in them that were not splashable (Sign in Blood, Murder, [card]Black
Sun's Zenith[/card]...)

That being said, the two intuitive splashes are black and blue. Black for the cards Redthirst mentioned, and blue for a deck that's interested in playing a "kill your dudes, clone my win conditions" type of deck, which proved to be pretty effective during Scars block.

[Sneaky Homunculus]

Redthirst, you raise some good points. Mutavault is pretty awesome. Some questions:

-I'm assuming the deck you sideboard into is an aggro deck in game 1, correct?
-What exactly do you mean when you say Chandra whiffs on [card]Rakdos' Return[/card]?
-While I would never include Phoenix to the exclusion of Reckoner, I do believe the two could be used in tandem in this type of deck. A recurring, flying blocker that works well with Faithless Looting as a form of CA sounds too good to pass up.
-As for Doom Blade, I don't think it fits very well in this sort of deck. If we splash to gain access to flat out kill spells, then they ought to take care of things that our burn in incapable of. Doom Blade takes care of Reckoner, sure, but it whiffs on other important targets such as a pumped Olivia, Desecration Demon, etc.

I have a list that I've
been tinkering with, and I'll post it here a little later on today.
Judging by your helpful feedback, splashing black may be the right idea

[redthirst]

-What exactly do you mean when you say Chandra whiffs on [card]Rakdos' Return[/card]?

Mostly I mean that I went full retard for a moment there. Was thinking of Chandra as one of those "cast without paying cost..." deals, not "you may play" ones.

Sorry. Carry on.

[RDW]

Alex, this deck wants a playset of Mutavault and a playset of Boros Reckoner. These two things alone force one of four things: monored, Boros, Rx with a playset of guildgates, or a 28- to 29-land deck. I'd choose one of the former two.

[windstrider]

You aren't the only one derping there, thirst. My mana count for red was off by about 4. Should be 18 red, 12 black, 4 white, 2 colorless by including 2 Mutavault. Replacing the Shrines with Guildgates gives 22 red, 12 black, 2 colorless.

[Alex]

Alex, this deck wants a playset of Mutavault and a playset of Boros Reckoner.

No it doesn't, at least not if playing these two cards in tandem means playing a strictly worse version of a deck that could otherwise be built. Unless we're stubbornly refusing to build a "better" deck, in which case what is there to discuss?

[Sneaky Homunculus]

Alrighty, while I continue to tinker with what black cards I want to test out, let's discuss the burn package.

With Voice of Resurgence very present in the format, along with the occasional undying creature, Pillar of Flame is a definite 4 of.
Flames of the Firebrand is decent enough, being able to kill most of a lingering souls, or pick off a x/2 creature while recurring Phoenix.
Searing Spear and Pillar are both instant speed, but I'd rather go with Searing Spear for more impact.
If we are splashing black, is Mizzium Mortars extraneous? I think I'd rather run Dreadbore, despite mortars acting as a boardwipe lategame.

And speaking of boardwipes...
Most of the lists I've been seeing around have been using Bonfire of the Damned
exclusively. While Bonfire is a great card, I'm not sure it is the best choice here. Our other options are Rolling Temblor and Blasphemous Act. Rolling Temblor is great because it comes down early enough to kill most aggro creatures, while leaving ours alive. It hits Reckoner for 2 damage which can be redirected to kill troublesome 4 toughness creatures as well. However, it suffers the same problem as the rest of our burn: big creatures. Blasphemous Act on the other hand nukes just about everything, and combined with Reckoner can outright steal some games. However, the timing of when we are able to cast it is dependent on the board state most of the time rather than our mana; enemy Reckoners can be super awkward as well.
So far, I am leaning towards Rolling Temblor in any list with a black splash packing Olivia Voldaren. The black removal can take care of any large threat, and it would not do to have our pumped
Olivia killed by our own sweeper.

What ideas do have for the burn package?

PS: This is the rough list that I have been toying with today.
[deck]
Creatures
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Olivia Voldaren

Planeswalkers
4 Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells
4 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Burning Earth
4 Faithless Looting
4 Dreadbore
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Searing Spear

Lands
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blood Crypt
17 Mountain
[/deck]

[Alex]

This seems like a much better deck overall. I think people are in the mindset of "I need to jam Mutavault into everything," which is a pretty horrid thing to do. Mutavault is only a 2/2, people seem to have it in their head that it's somehow much better than it is. Is a bear worth making every card in your list worse? No, absolutely not. Creeping Tar Pit was a much better man land and even it didn't see a huge surge of play when it was around. People are kind of blinded by it being a manland, despite how underwhelming it is. I'm glad you were able to see past it.

Olivia is a very much-needed card in any deck that wants to do what you're trying to do. I might cut a Faithless Looting for a fourth Chandra's Phoenix but I think beyond that I'd probably arrive at much the same list you have.

[Yarpus]

[deck]Creatures (12):
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Thundermaw Hellkite

Planeswalkers (4):
4 Chandra, Pyromaster

Other Spells (20):
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Burning Earth

Lands (24):
2 Mutavault
22 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
15 Sideboard[/deck]

Okay, let's get to the basics.
- Chandra is the best CA in the format as long as you don't play reactive cards. Counterspells, removal. She's georgous. She's balanced JTMS. Her +1 is pretty weak removal, but her 0 just turns things on. But I repeat. You should NOT play removal and counterspells, which is why UWR control will never play her. She's the reason I'm thinking about dropping Mortars as they might not find a target ... So. Guys. Play her. Understand her (even while she's difficult) and love her. She's our new tool.
- I am still not sure about 4 main Burning Earth. Still, people
seem to play it with lots of success. The rule of punishment is simple, we as superior Mono deck are okay while they get hurt whenever they try to play anything. (np, pay for your Thragtusk or Sphinx's Revelation). Actually with multiple copies in the deck, you become kind of lockdown deck.
- Creature package. Not a huge fan of Chandra's Phoenix in controllish deck, but she's a decent wincon with many recursion possibilities. Boros Reckoner is great for grindy control matchups. Thundermaw is too strong. I'm also thinking about Scorge of Valkas, really interesting card. Against control you have only one of these on the field to force him to use his mass removal on single creature. Firebreathing forces him to deal with the issue ASAP. Against Midrange/Aggro you just play one after another. Pings deal with some parts of the board while you still have decent, evasive beaters.
- Burn package. I love Mizzium Mortars. I love this card much more than any B removal. Just because of the flexxibility - being
both single target removal and 1-sided sweeper is fantastic. It deals with most of the creatures you can face in current standard - the only exception from that would be these huge bastards played by Reanimators. Besides of that - things are pretty standard. Pillar for undying/resurgence/aggro. Spears. FotF is cool, especially with some wonky tech I will bring later.
- 2 pieces of Mutavault as card itself is sweet, but I don't want to loose too much consistency.

Advanced Stuff.
- I will most probably play Rolling Temblor in SB against aggro/midrange matchups. 1-sided board sweep which is kinda effective against aggro decks and which can hit the field T3. Built-in bonus is: while it doesn't touch Phoenixes and Hellkites - it deals 2 damage to Reckoner. So if the little fella has no damage marked onto himself, he actually deals another Shock. Sweet.
- Pyromancer's Gauntlet. God, I want to play this card so much. Turning your Spears into 5's? Mizzium Mortars into real-deal sweeper? These are cute.
But what about Flames of the Firebrand dealing 3 damage to 3 targets? Or Chandra, Pyromaster doing Searing Blazes like it's nobody's business? 1-piece wildcard in SB for big decks (control/midrange).
- Thunderbolts instead of Pillars for control matchups.
- Traitorous Blood/Grafdigger's Cage instead of Chandra's Phoenix for reanimator matchups.
- Not sure if Chandra is usefull in Midrange matchups. I'd try to swap her for something else during these.
- I really can't say anything about Blasphemous Act. Looks like crappy sweeper and occasional wincon.

The coolest part of this deck? It has a lot of distinctive threats.
- Beatdown. You might just get smashed with creatures itself.
- Phoenix Beatdown. You can stop it only with Pillar, as Phoenix's recursion is really strong in this deck.
- Lockdown. Burning Earth can just beat most of decks popular in current meta.
- Burn/Chandra's ultimate. Burn someone's face off. Finish with Chandra's ultimate for style points.
- Mix everything
into one, hatefull deck.

Splashes.
- Black Splash gives Olivia Voldaren, Rakdos Charm, Doom Blade (Dreadbore sucks) and Rakdos' Return.
- White Splash gives Warleader's Helix, Purify the Grave, Oblivion Ring.
- Green Splash gives you Thragtusk, Huntmaster, Ground Assault and Ground Seal.
These cards are good but shocks are pretty fsck'd up in terms of Burning Earth. That's why I'd rather play Mono Red, use Mizzium Mortars as removal and be glad that I tap these sweet, sweet mountains.

More on Splashes.
The choice in terms of manabase is simple. It's either 2 Mutavault 6 Mountains or 4 Shock 4 M13 lands. If you go deeper into splash (using low-CMC splashed cards or considering them highly) you want to raise the count to 10 - by adding two Guildgates which always enter tapped.

Let's presure I want to play my deck with White Splash. I'm using 4 Warleader's Helix in mainboard and 2 Rest in Peace in sideboard. I can easily get away with usage of only 8 W-producing lands. To be able to
use Oblivion Rings either in mainboard or SB I need to increase the count of these lands to 10. What happens.
- every game I am starting at 18 life due to Shockland. Sometimes I loose even more. Why other decks don't loose that much? Their main answer to aggro decks is T3-4 depending on usage of acceleration. They have lifegain to neglect the early pressure. We stop the pressure on it's tracks with usage of Pillar/Spear/Mortars.
- my Burning Earth will averagely damage me for 2-3 during short games and more during longer ones. I'm a bit scared of casting multiples.
- I don't use Mutavault. While Mutavault is not amazing, that's my best bet to increase the creature count without loosing my tools.
- By fact that I don't use Mutavault, I don't get hiccups when trying to cast Reckoner.
Is it worth it? It's up to you.

Mod edit: Adding the Sideboard (15) even if you don't have cards listed there usually fixes the weird formatting of decklists. It's something we're
working on fixing. -Alex

[redthirst]

Damn Yarpus... that's the first time I've seen legitimate mod text on this forum. Nice.

Also, got to disagree with Alex. Reckoner needs like 20 R/W sources to reliably come out on curve so, with 25 sources, there's no reason not to run 2-4 Mutavaults.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Here's some stuff to add to the primer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rILfX1GymGo

Andrew Shrout 6-2 Standard, SCG Invitational Somerset on 7/28/2013
[deck]
Creatures (16)
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Hellrider
4 Thundermaw Hellkite

Lands (25)
21 Mountain
4 Mutavault

Spells (19)
4 Burning Earth
3 Brimstone Volley
4 Searing Spear
4 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Pillar of Flame

Sideboard (15)
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Possibility Storm
3 Shock
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rolling Temblor[/deck]


Joseph Herrera 11th Place at StarCityGames.com Standard Open on 7/28/2013
[deck]
Creatures (16)
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Hellrider
4 Thundermaw Hellkite

Lands (25)
21 Mountain
4 Mutavault

Spells (19)
4 Burning Earth
3 Brimstone Volley
4 Searing Spear
4 Bonfire of the Damned
n4 Pillar of Flame

Sideboard (15)
4 Ratchet Bomb
3 Possibility Storm
3 Shock
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Rolling Temblor[/deck]

Adam Laforest GP Calgary 2013 - Top 8 Decklist
[deck]Creatures (16)
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Hellrider
4 Thundermaw Hellkite

Lands (25)
21 Mountain
4 Mutavault

Spells (19)
4 Bonfire of the Damned
3 Brimstone Volley
4 Burning Earth
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear

Sideboard (15)
1 Blasphemous Act
3 Curse of the Pierced Heart
3 Mark of Mutiny
3 Skullcrack
3 Volcanic Strength
2 Wild Ricochet[/deck]

Banky409 (6th Place) RW by Banky409 Standard Premier 2013-07-28 #5738650
[deck]Creatures (16)
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Hellrider
4 Thundermaw Hellkite

Lands (25)
22 Mountain
3 Mutavault

Spells (19)
4 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Shock
4 Searing Spear
4 Burning Earth
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard (15)
n1 Shock
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Possibility Storm
4 Ratchet Bomb
3 Rolling Temblor
2 Thunderbolt[/deck]

[Yarpus]

This is my general list of cards I consider good for Mono Red Control/Midrange. So, all the high-quality Red cards except of weenies. Remember that i's highly subjective, so don't hate it just because I am silly.

[deck]Creatures:
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Hellrider
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Scourge of Valkas

Planeswalkers:
4 Chandra, Pyromaster

Instants:
4 Shock
4 Electrickery
4 Searing Spear
4 Skullcrack
4 Thunderbolt
4 Annihilating Fire
4 Wild Ricochet
4 Magmaquake

Sorceries:
4 Faithless Looting
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Wild Guess
4 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Rolling Temblor
4 Traitorous Blood
4 Blasphemous Act
4 Devil's Play
4 Bonfire of the Damned

Enchantments:
4 Curse of the Pierced Heart
4 Burning Earth

Artifacts:
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Pithing Needle
4 Ratchet Bomb
4 Haunted Plate Mail
4
Pyromancer's Gauntlet
4 Staff of Nin

White Splash:
4 Purify the Grave
4 Boros Charm
4 Rest in Peace
4 Warleader's Helix

Black Splash:
4 Duress
4 Appetite for Brains
4 Cremate
4 Doom Blade
4 Dreadbore
4 Rakdos Charm
4 Olivia Voldaren
4 Rakdos' Return

Green Splash:
4 Ground Assault
4 Grull Charm
4 Zhur-Taa Druid
4 Domri Rade
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Thragtusk
4 Kalonian Hydra
4 Clan Defiance

Sideboard:
4 Storm Crow[/deck]

[Lightning_Dolt]

Alright, assuming this list:

Johnny Spike Test Deck 8/1/2013

[deck]Lands (25)
21 Mountains
4 Mutavault

Creatures (16)
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Hellrider
4 Thundermaw Hellkite

Spells (19)
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
3 Brimstone Volley
4 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Burning Earth

Sideboard (15)
4 Ratchet Bomb
3 Possibility Storm
3 Skullcrack
3 Rolling Tremblor
2 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]

Sideboarding Guide (please let me know if any of this doesn't make sense)

VS RDW / Gruul
+3 Rolling Tremblor, +2 [cards]Mizzium Mortars[/cards]
-4 Burning Earth, -1 Brimstone Volley

VS Junk Reanimator
+2 Mizzium Mortars, +2 Skullcrack
-4 [card]Searing Spear[/
card]

VS UWR
+3 Possibility Storm, +3 Skullcrack, +2 Mizzium Mortars
-4 Pillar of Flame, -4 Bonfire of the Damned

VS Jund
+2 Mizzium Mortars, +3 Skullcrack
-4 Pillar of Flame, -1 Brimstone Volley

VS Junk Aristocrats
+4 Ratchet Bomb, +3 Rolling Temblor
-4 Searing Spear, -3 Brimstone Volley

VS Bant Hexproof
+4 Ratchet Bomb, +3 Rolling Temblor, +3 Skullcrack
-4 Searing Spear, -2 Brimstone Volley, -4 [card]Burning Earth[/card:
2ojpaoph]

VS BG Control
+3 Skullcrack, +2 Mizzium Mortars
-4 Burning Earth, -1 Brimstone Volley

[Yarpus]

Weirdest idea ever. Splash White for Warleader's Helix and Rest in Peace. Instead of shocklands... use Plains. Our most colour-intensive card is Boros Reckoner and what stops this deck from splashing stuff is mostly Burning Earth. Now it starts to work awesomely.

[deck]Creatures (12):
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Thundermaw Hellkite

Planeswalkers (4):
4 Chandra, Pyromaster

Other Spells (20):
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Burning Earth

Lands (24):
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Plains
16 Mountain

Sideboard (15):
4 Rolling Temblor
4 Thunderbolt
4 Traitorous Blood
3 Rest in Peace[/deck]

[Lightning_Dolt]

Weirdest idea ever. Splash White for Warleader's Helix and Rest in Peace. Instead of shocklands... use Plains. Our most colour-intensive card is Boros Reckoner and what stops this deck from splashing stuff is mostly Burning Earth. Now it starts to work awesomely.

[deck]Creatures (12):
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Thundermaw Hellkite

Planeswalkers (4):
4 Chandra, Pyromaster

Other Spells (20):
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Burning Earth

Lands (24):
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Plains
16 Mountain

Sideboard (15):
4 Rolling Temblor
4 Thunderbolt
4 Traitorous Blood
3 Rest in Peace[/deck]

At that point you might as well play Sacred Foundry.

[Yarpus]

The whole point is not to. I want to minimize the damage I deal to myself trough lands. I'm playing 4 copies of Burning Earth and additionaly shocks himself are gonna hurt me. Sooner or later. You have to think about specifics of this kind of control. After stabilizing the board I have not that many ways of regaining life (except of Warleader's Helix), so I cannot afford loosing much of that for free.

What I want to achieve during most of the games? Having access to double-red at turn 3. Playing 4 plains has near-to-zero risk of that. On the other hand shocks will averagely damage me for 2-5 per game which is kind of bad.

[Lightning_Dolt]

The whole point is not to. I want to minimize the damage I deal to myself trough lands. I'm playing 4 copies of Burning Earth and additionaly shocks himself are gonna hurt me. Sooner or later. You have to think about specifics of this kind of control. After stabilizing the board I have not that many ways of regaining life (except of Warleader's Helix), so I cannot afford loosing much of that for free.

What I want to achieve during most of the games? Having access to double-red at turn 3. Playing 4 plains has near-to-zero risk of that. On the other hand shocks will averagely damage me for 2-5 per game which is kind of bad.

Why does Clifftop Retreat get the nod? It's ok to take some damage, especially with lifegain. Gruul lists are doing it.


I think white for WLH is not enough although I do like having access to Oring in the side.

[Yarpus]

Why does Clifftop Retreat get the nod? It's ok to take some damage, especially with lifegain. Gruul lists are doing it.

ett
You'll never keep 1-lander, and be extremally cautious about keeping 2-landers as well. Clifftop is okay here. On the other hand, playing Foundries doesn't give you really that much. Like... nearly nothing. Just the damage you agree to get. Maybe with Scourge of Valkas in Thundermaw slot you could switch to SF - but in any other case, playing plains is just much better, especially when splash is so small. Gruul needs it due to highly-coloured mana costs. Here? The biggest requirement here is 1RR at T3 with Chandra's Phoenix in hand. And with 4 lands providing off-colour mana in 24 lands deck, that's pretty cool.

I'm also not a fan of splashing anything in this kind of deck. Burning Earth is too strong these days to pass the capability of neuterizing all the
greedy boys in the hood. I'd keep it red tbh. But people seem to like splashing. I agree that there are some value cards to be splashed in White: Oblivion Ring, Helix and Rest in Peace were just my first thoughts. Not sure about Boros Charm, card seems aggro as hell to me (even while it's brilliant).

[Lightning_Dolt]

Why does Clifftop Retreat get the nod? It's ok to take some damage, especially with lifegain. Gruul lists are doing it.

ett
You'll never keep 1-lander, and be extremally cautious about keeping 2-landers as well. Clifftop is okay here. On the other hand, playing Foundries doesn't give you really that much. Like... nearly nothing. Just the damage you agree to get. Maybe with Scourge of Valkas in Thundermaw slot you could switch to SF - but in any other case, playing plains is just much better, especially when splash is so small. Gruul needs it due to highly-coloured mana costs. Here? The biggest requirement here is 1RR at T3 with Chandra's Phoenix in hand. And with 4 lands providing off-colour mana in 24 lands deck, that's
pretty cool.

I'm also not a fan of splashing anything in this kind of deck. Burning Earth is too strong these days to pass the capability of neuterizing all the greedy boys in the hood. I'd keep it red tbh. But people seem to like splashing. I agree that there are some value cards to be splashed in White: Oblivion Ring, Helix and Rest in Peace were just my first thoughts. Not sure about Boros Charm, card seems aggro as hell to me (even while it's brilliant).

I think it's probably better to stay mono-red too.

But If I were to splash white I would probably want about ten white sources (88% chance of being able to cast Helix on curve).

That said, I think mutavault is enough of a reason to stay mono-coloured, and just much better than Helix.

[zemanjaski]

You can play RW Midrange, but just don't kid yourself. Cut the Burning Earths and just max out on white sources. You're splashing to leverage the power level of cards in white, you want to be able to cast them!

4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Hellrider
4 Thundermaw Hellkite

2 Chandra, Pyromaster

4 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
2 Warleader's Helix

4 Boros Guildate
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry

9 Mountain

That's 57 cards, add whatever you want. Consider other white cards that might be good (I just threw the deck together). What you lose in Burning Earth you need to make up for with white cards, so look into that. Thing is, apart from Warleader's Helix, there isn't really any amazing white or red-white cards that you would want.

I tend to lean towards RB or RG as better configurations if you really want to splash (personally I like RB the most)
.

[redthirst]

I like all those placing Big Red lists, but I'm saddened by the lack of Chandra, which I think would fit in beautifully in any of them.

[zemanjaski]

If you eschew Chandra, you can play Restoration Angel instead of Hellrider which is pretty nice. With some Warleader's Helix as well you can even play a bit of counter-burn.

[Yarpus]

Yep, I guess it's just Mono Red Control FTW.
So... what do you think about playing 24 lands, 4 Mutavaults with 4 Reckoners? Too greedy?

[zemanjaski]

I like 21 coloured sources to cast my Reckoner.

[redthirst]

[deck]Big Redthirst[/deck]

Nothing revolutionary over the other lists, but I do want to try out Young Pyro and Chandra, Pyro.

[Lightning_Dolt]

[deck]Big Redthirst[/deck]

Nothing revolutionary over the other lists, but I do want to try out Young Pyro and Chandra, Pyro.

I was also thinking about Young Pyromancer in this deck.

[Valdarith]

[deck]Big Redthirst[/deck]

Nothing revolutionary over the other lists, but I do want to try out Young Pyro and Chandra, Pyro.

Looks like a big version of my Pyromancer deck. After the last few days though, I feel like Ghost Quarter is very well positioned right now. In a big deck like this I feel like it'd be better than Mutavault. There's just so many decks running incredibly greedy manabases and I can imagine Ghost Quarter flat-out winning you the game sometimes.

[zemanjaski]

Ghost Quarter has anti-synergy with burning earth, so be mindful of that. It is verging on strip mine at the moment though.

[Alex]

If you eschew Chandra, you can play Restoration Angel instead of Hellrider which is pretty nice. With some Warleader's Helix as well you can even play a bit of counter-burn.

It's coming full circle.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that I basically already built this deck.

[hamfactorial]

I think Ghost Quarter is excellent in the early turns to punish greedy keeps, but we can only have 4 of them. They'll eventually draw into more nonbasics, by which point we'll have BE online and ready to troll.

[zemanjaski]

@ Alex, yes, and now it just has more tools. Nice.

[zemanjaski]

Alex is smart. How about this core:

4 Boros Reckoner
4 Hellrider
4 Restoration Angel
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Zealous Conscripts

4 Clifftop Retreat
3 Mutavault / Slayer's Stronghold
4 Sacred Foundry
10 Mountain
3 Plains

~ 18 spells

Quick notes:
- Resto looks a bit weak, but a 3/4 flash flier for 4 is still very good, and you can save your own creatures from removal or blink a creature as double flash blockers, so you can still gets one value. But really, it's just a good midrange threat that you're pretty happy to draw. Also blink Conscripts is disgusting.
- 18 spells makes Pyromancer pretty sweet! It's just a nice value creature that can play well with your flash creatures and instant speed spells. Also is nice with Hellrider.

Potential spell selection:
4 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Midnight Haunting
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Rally the Peasants

[Link]

i think slayer's stronghold is much more promising. Vigilant reckoners and 5/4 angels are so digusting

[LP, of the Fires]

In a two colored deck with something resembling a curve and having access to flyers, Slayers stronghold is 1000x better then mutavault.

If you're playing paper magic, pillar of flame is going down in relevance, so you don't need the full 4 maindeck. I'd also try some number of war leaders helix as the card is just very powerful.

[Christen]

I'm also with just using the Strongholds over Mutavaults if you're going RW. Vigilant Reckoners and Angels are no joke.

Ah, and I remember Vigilant Rhox Faithmenders from the board are bonkers gaining 6 life with each swing.

[Alex]

Alex is smart. How about this core:

4 Boros Reckoner
4 Hellrider
4 Restoration Angel
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Zealous Conscripts

4 Clifftop Retreat
3 Mutavault / Slayer's Stronghold
4 Sacred Foundry
10 Mountain
3 Plains

~ 18 spells

Quick notes:
- Resto looks a bit weak, but a 3/4 flash flier for 4 is still very good, and you can save your own creatures from removal or blink a creature as double flash blockers, so you can still gets one value. But really, it's just a good midrange threat that you're pretty happy to draw. Also blink Conscripts is disgusting.
- 18 spells makes Pyromancer pretty sweet! It's just a nice value creature that can play well with your flash creatures and instant speed spells. Also is nice with Hellrider.

Potential spell
selection:
4 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Midnight Haunting
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Rally the Peasants

Oh my fucking god, a deck I could happily play [card]Aurelia's Fury[/card] in? Sold.

[zemanjaski]

Young Promancer looks pretty gross. It just sits and makes 1/1s until you win.