Ragnarok Mafia (Scum Win) Tattered Banners and Bloody Flags

[Stardust]

Fun fact: Up until Pie first voted, there were 8 different people with 1 vote each!

Hinting at a double-voter...? What do you guys think?

Unlikely. Iso as mod likes to do silly things sometimes and occasionally makes comments like this. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Stardust remarking on his role is null; he does this as both alignments.

First up, the only game on this site that I've been scum was KNM. I said nothing about a role there (and claimed vanilla). As far as I can recall, the only time I've ever said anything about my role was when I replaced into Bioshock (where I was town). So what are you basing that comment on?

You've done it in games on Sally, too. I think. Right? ._.

Have I mentioned I suck at this meta thing?

You have mentioned it. Makes me wonder why you're still trying.

Have you read my Sally games?

You know me by now, Stardust. I voted you because wagon! <3

Mmhmm.

Pie is confusing me this game and I can't sort his play itself yet, but the frustration he exhibited earlier about having to repeat himself and people not blinking seemed genuine. imopen is more of a gut thing.

Why do you like James and RCW?

I bolded portions of their quotes in my big post. I consider both of those weak town tells.

Comeon, Stardust. This sounds backpedaly as fuck and you know it.

Denied! Why do you say it's backpedalling? I didn't really explain as well as I could have, so I
spelled it out. Did I contradict myself or change my views?

I just don't feel that Stardust is dumb enough to act so scummy. Doesn't make sense.

That's WIFOM, brah.

Why are you still voting for me?

I didn't imply Z was mafia aligned, just giving my thoughts about him in response to TH asking me about him and Stardust.

Who do you think is mafia aligned?

What about Stardust scumslipping all over Valhalla?

Here's a link to my first town game (and first public game on MTGS). I "scum slip" a lot in that game, and get in a few fights because of it. Yanni might remember, though he replaced out early. I learned that game that I tend to view this game a bit differently than most people, putting myself in others' shoes to see what they ought to be thinking. It works well for me, for the most part. One quirk of thinking that way is that I often find myself wanting to express my views from that other perspective. When I said that I wanted to make sure I was doing something townStardust would do or talking about my town MO, it's not that I'm not town trying to act the way I do as town, it's that I wanted to make sure I'll come out the other side
with you guys believing that I might be town. Basically, that my gambit has a solid town reasoning. Everything from here on out is WIFOM, so I don't expect you to believe I'm town. I just expect you to believe that I might be town. Like, intentionally acting scummy doesn't make sense for a scum player, because the most they can get out of it is null since it's WIFOM. A town player, on the other hand, can shoot for null as the goal since they'll get reactions in the meantime. Does that make sense? I feel like I did a poor job explaining that.

Any day 1 lynch is more likely to be town than scum, given no strong information.

What about Stardust scumslipping all over Valhalla?

That is very confusing to me. He's either acting silly on purpose to draw information out or playing next level mind games to make people reading him as scum look scummy. The signal/noise ratio is low, so any read on him feels weak.

Oh man, why are you NOT voting for me? Can you explain my scum slip and how you think it could possibly be me fishing for reactions?

Stardust, pie, your reactions to Tubehunter?

I had a town read on him, based primarily on meta. This post has me doubting that
somewhat, but I still think he's likely town.

[zemanjaski]

@ Ham, So you've read up on the others? What are your thoughts on Tubehunter? He hasn't said much yet so it shouldn't take you long.

[rcwraspy]

also how you're so willing to accept his claim like pelase

Who is this directed at?

you

Ok, cool. In that case please quote where I accept his claim. Because I don't remember doing it.

"he's not confirmed town but he's probably town" or something like that[/
quote]
If you go re-read that, I actually said that nobody has done or said enough to warrant a confirmed town nod from me. In no way does that address his claim.

I know this is a game of reading between the lines, but that's a huge stretch.

but you said you think he's town iirc

Recall again.

Actually, here's the quote:

Actually, guys, I have to admit I like what Pie is doing. Not enough to call him confirmed town - nobody's done/said enough for that yet - but he's certainly getting the ball rolling. The town mindset here is that he's poking at everybody to see who flinches in a way he and other town don't like. Right now he's scumhunting more than most. The scum mindset here is that he's throwing mud on everybody to see what sticks to get a wagon going. And oh look, we have one on Stardust. Which brings me back to #2, above ^^

I said I liked what he was doing. Because it was getting people to post
and that leads to information.

Then I said "nobody's done/said enough for that [call him confirmed town] yet"

the town mindset impllies you think he's town

I agree, that's how I read that post. Rcw, do you see no spectrum between "confirmed town" and scum? Usually people say "confirmed town" only on the strongest of town reads and "leaning town" or townie or something like that if they feel someone is likely town. The fact that you said no one is yet "confirmed town" did not mean to me that you thought no one was at all town. What exactly did you mean?

Yes, there's definitely a spectrum between confirmed town and scum.

I meant what I said. I meant nobody is confirmed town to me yet. That still holds, although Z just posted a pretty good T/S list.

The thing is, what you and Yanni seem to fail to realize is that "not confirmed town" != "leaning town". It means
anything from leaning town to scum.

So now you've both tunneled that. Scumteam?

[Stardust]

Z just posted a pretty good T/S list.

And so it begins...

rcw! Got a list of your own?

Also, you are currently suffering from OMGUS. Don't let that cloud your judgement.

[rezombad]

I don't expect you to believe I'm town. I just expect you to believe that I might be town. Like, intentionally acting scummy doesn't make sense for a scum player

I'm not willing to dismiss the possibility that you might be town. Right now you are scum to me.

Are you saying you were intentionally acting scummy?

[rcwraspy]

I want to hear from ham ASAP as well

Also, I never asked ham to post more. Please think before you make claims that don't have merit to them.

VOTE: TubeHunter

Im baffled. How is that
asking ham to post more? I just said I would like to hear from him.

Can we come up with some real reasons here?

Tube, you're going to have to work VERY hard to convince us that "want to hear from" is not synonymous with "post more." To add insult to injury, Z quoted yet ANOTHER post of yours asking for more content from Ham.

Horrible reaction under pressure. My vote's staying here for the time being.

[Stardust]

Are you saying you were intentionally acting scummy?

Have you been reading my posts? I didn't fake a scumslip, if that's what you mean.

[zemanjaski]

Tube was caught lying. Just note it and we'll come back to it after he posts sonething substantive, which he has said will happen now (presumably in his next post). If not we've got scumspect #1 to go after. I'm willing to admit maybe he's just noob town being terrible, but there's enough in common with his Bioshock game to raise my suspicion.

[imopen2]

Rcw, I'm not sure you understand what "tunneling" is...just because I agreed with the way yanni read your post doesn't mean I think you are scum or something. I was nearly trying to figure out if you were misusing the term "confirmed town." You claim you understand the spectrum I described. I'm anxiously awaiting your t/s list where you tell us what you actually think about pie.

[rcwraspy]

Z just posted a pretty good T/S list.

And so it begins...

rcw! Got a list of your own?

Also, you are currently suffering from OMGUS. Don't let that cloud your judgement.

My list has almost everybody "null" still. I'm not barning (I think that's the right expression) Z's list - I'm saying the thought process he displayed in its creation seems like a town mindset.

Tube is my only scum read so far, with no town reads. Ham, Pie, Yani, and Imopen are probably
the most questionable of the nulls. You're not far behind. I understand how what you've posted COULD be a town gambit, but I'm not convinced it was. Z's closest to leaning town in my mind but not quite there yet.

My vote's firmly on Tube right now. My post on Yanni and Imopen are more notes for Day2 at this point.

General notes: 1. thanks everybody for pointing me to Bioshock. I wasn't aware it was over. Need to read up on that. 2. Day at work is almost over, which means school soon. I probably won't post much more, if at all, today.

[rezombad]

intentionally acting scummy doesn't make sense for a scum player

It doesn't make sense. That's why it's called a scumslip.

[Stardust]

intentionally acting scummy doesn't make sense for a scum player

It doesn't make sense. That's why it's called a scumslip.

Oh. That's not what I was talking about there. That sentence was referring to my initial gambit where I did intentionally act scummy.

[hamfactorial]

I'll answer Z with my read on TH after I finish work. I'm enjoying reading the posts, so I'll be lurking for a few more hours until big boss man stops cruising by eying me. Typing on my phone is miserable, and trying to manage multiple quotes is even worse.

[Stardust]

Yo, hammy, I asked you a couple questions in my post at the top of this page.

[Kazekirimaru]

@ Kaze:
- I find lurking then not posting a slight scum tell. Remember it's my first game, but my guy reaction is that if I am copping hear to offer some discourse in defence (see our interactions in page 1). What do you think?

- about providing more content; look I agree with you, but when I'm not at a computer, typing out slabs of text on my phone sucks.

- I don't think much of it in a vacuum.

- Pretty much every post I make before Midnight EST is from my phone. I don't accept that as an excuse. You should be succinct in your observations, anyhow.

I see you Hamfactorial.[/
quote]
Not sure if this is legitimate lurker-pressuring or pro-town posturing.

You have mentioned it. Makes me wonder why you're still trying.

Have you read my Sally games?

Yeah, I wonder myself, sometimes. >.>

Somewhat. I've tried to. I must admit Sally games make my eyes glaze over.

Denied! Why do you say it's backpedalling? I didn't really explain as well as I could have, so I spelled it out. Did I contradict myself or change my views?

It's in your explanation that lie the problems. You're basically trying to explain away all
the scummy things you did earlier with an "I was doing it for the reactions" argument and it doesn't sit well with me.

Why are you still voting for me?

Because you're scum, maybe?

Here's a link to my first town game (and first public game on MTGS). I "scum slip" a lot in that game, and get in a few fights because of it. Yanni might remember, though he replaced out early. I learned that game that I tend to view this game a bit differently than most people, putting myself in others' shoes to see what they ought to be thinking. It works well for
me, for the most part. One quirk of thinking that way is that I often find myself wanting to express my views from that other perspective. When I said that I wanted to make sure I was doing something townStardust would do or talking about my town MO, it's not that I'm not town trying to act the way I do as town, it's that I wanted to make sure I'll come out the other side with you guys believing that I might be town. Basically, that my gambit has a solid town reasoning. Everything from here on out is WIFOM, so I don't expect you to believe I'm town. I just expect you to believe that I might be town. Like, intentionally acting scummy doesn't make sense for a scum player, because the most they can get out of it is null since it's WIFOM. A town player, on the other hand, can shoot for null as the goal since they'll get reactions in the meantime. Does that make sense? I feel like I did a poor job explaining that.

Really? It's been my experience that when you
want to legitimately scumhunt, you go in Professor Stardust mode and start analyzing everything whilst explaining yourself along the way(you do this as scum too, but with less of the latter[but that is neither here nor there]) instead of this whole "saying things that I think will make me look town" deal which sounds incredibly self-aware and scummy to me.

Tube was caught lying. Just note it and we'll come back to it after he posts sonething substantive, which he has said will happen now (presumably in his next post). If not we've got scumspect #1 to go after. I'm willing to admit maybe he's just noob town being terrible, but there's enough in common with his Bioshock game to raise my suspicion.

Hey James, what do you think about the "Lynch All Liars" policy?

My list has almost everybody "null" still. I'm not barning (I think that's the right expression) Z's list - I'm saying the thought process he displayed in its creation seems like a town mindset..

Ew.

Psychobabble time: The bolded bothers me. I know rcw is smarter and more experienced than this. It sounds like he's pretending to know less about the game in order to look less threatening.

--

So, James is looking more townish to me as of late.

The yanni v. imopen deal looks like town v. town to me.

[hamfactorial]

Yo, hammy, I asked you a couple questions in my post at the top of this page.

Ok, I'll get yours, too.

[zemanjaski]

GL at school raspy.

@ Kaze, thoughts on Tubehunter, given you've played with him once, and missed a game with him? With what you've seen from his development and behaviour, what do you make if his:
- short posts with little analysis
- repeating questions of other posters
- reaction to suspicion

Arrigato ^_____^

[pedit]
All @ Kaze

- if you don't like the excuse, tough. I've not shied away from offering content. Half the posters have posted a lot, half haven't. If you want to take issue with me you should take issue with them first. I'm largely done with your comments about my post frequency / content; I think you're just trying to lean on me as a noob. If other's start asking for more I'll listen. You lean slightly town for me, but I could easily see you being active and clever scum. Pushing wagons aggressively to get content is good for town I think, but as of late you're moving between dudferent
people a lot, whereas early you were focused. Why?

- I want to pressure Ham and Tube for responses. They're yet to give us anything substantive (well, Tube got upset and lied) so I want more from them. They're my number 1 and 2 suspects.

- I'm not experienced enough to have a lunch all liars opinion. I actually thought about suggesting it myself but decided not to because I'm not fully informed on whether it's good for the town or whether scum can take advantage. Thoughts? If Tube's responses are poor i would support and argue for the policy.

- agree on rcwraspy's behaviour.

Anything else?

[zemanjaski]

Kaze why do you keep calling me James? It makes us seem awfully familiar.

[zemanjaski]

To clarify for the non-FOS guys, very few people in the clan call me James; Kaze and Ham don't, so that they're using it here is interesting to me. Ham in particular refers to me as 'Z' in both writing and on stream.

[rezombad]

To clarify for the non-FOS guys, very few people in the clan call me James; Kaze and Ham don't, so that they're using it here is interesting to me. Ham in particular refers to me as 'Z' in both writing and on stream.

So you think they're scum because they are calling you James?

[hamfactorial]

I haven't referred to you as James, but Kaze doing it does seem out of place. I did a search of this thread for "James" and then looked for all instances of "hamfactorial", and didn't see any of my posts where I referred to you by first name.

Is it your normal style to post no analysis and just parrot what others say Tubehunter? You're yet to make a substantive post in this thread. Actual analysis please.

Aside: I'm noticing a lot of posts with friendly language towards me now, or subtle encouragement. Don't think that will work.

For now Stardust is null to me; seen stuff that goes both ways.

[pedit]@imopen2 I do have more but it's 530am and pip's not happy I'm on my phone. I've made notes overnight, will post when I can get
to a computer.

Are you interpreting Kaze's first name use as being overly familiar or friendly?

[zemanjaski]

Not necessarily. But it's noticeable (to me only I guess) that they're doing it, given out interactions over the last year, where they haven't called me James. It makes me nervous.

[pedit]
@ Ham. Really? Ill check when I get a chance, but I thought you had. If I'm wrong, my mistake. Maybe I'm just remembering a quote you had used wherein someone else called me James. Ill check.

And yeah, I think Kaze's use of my first name (why no one else's?) sticks out.

[Stardust]

Denied! Why do you say it's backpedalling? I didn't really explain as well as I could have, so I spelled it out. Did I contradict myself or change my views?

It's in your explanation that lie the problems. You're basically trying to explain away all the scummy things you did earlier with an "I was doing it for the reactions" argument and it doesn't sit well with me.

"All the scummy things" is one post. 100% of that post was for the reactions. You can call me scummy for my other posts if you want to.

Why are you still voting for me?

Because you're scum, maybe?

Yeah, yeah, but my point is that you're calling Suga dumb for calling me town because it's WIFOM. Calling me scum based on the same post is WIFOM too.

Here's a link to my first town game (and first public
game on MTGS). I "scum slip" a lot in that game, and get in a few fights because of it. Yanni might remember, though he replaced out early. I learned that game that I tend to view this game a bit differently than most people, putting myself in others' shoes to see what they ought to be thinking. It works well for me, for the most part. One quirk of thinking that way is that I often find myself wanting to express my views from that other perspective. When I said that I wanted to make sure I was doing something townStardust would do or talking about my town MO, it's not that I'm not town trying to act the way I do as town, it's that I wanted to make sure I'll come out the other side with you guys believing that I might be town. Basically, that my gambit has a solid town reasoning. Everything from here on out is WIFOM, so I don't expect you to believe I'm town. I just expect you to believe that I might be town. Like, intentionally acting scummy doesn't make sense for a
scum player, because the most they can get out of it is null since it's WIFOM. A town player, on the other hand, can shoot for null as the goal since they'll get reactions in the meantime. Does that make sense? I feel like I did a poor job explaining that.

Really? It's been my experience that when you want to legitimately scumhunt, you go in Professor Stardust mode and start analyzing everything whilst explaining yourself along the way(you do this as scum too, but with less of the latter[but that is neither here nor there]) instead of this whole "saying things that I think will make me look town" deal which sounds incredibly self-aware and scummy to me.

Hrmm... I guess I did do a poor job explaining. I didn't try to say things that made me look town. I tried to say things that believably could have come from town. There's a huge difference. If I'm going to run an effective gambit, I need to make sure I'm not going to get lynched for it. I need to be self-
aware.

This also has nothing to do with Professor Stardust. I make these slips anytime I'm in someone elses' shoes, whether I'm scumhunting or explaining or rereading or whatever. I consciously revert back while typing to avoid it and often have to rewrite something if I catch myself doing it.

And yeah, I think Kaze's use of my first name (why no one else's?) sticks out.

He is using my first name!

[InflatablePie]

unvote

catching up now.

can I make a request? try not to make huge quote tunnels; snip them if you can. it makes it easier for mobile browsing (for my shitty phone at least). speaking of which, I've skimmed up to p5-ish on my phone at work but don't remember much since it doesn't load avatars. so I'm re-skimming.

p.s. - thanks rezzy for telling me how to ISO people on this site. (b' ')b

[imopen2]

I get the feeling kaze is calling you James to be a dick. I don't think he knows my first name

[Stardust]

I get the feeling kaze is calling you James to be a dick. I don't think he knows my first name

Protour?

Why do you think Kaze would be doing it just to be a dick?

[hamfactorial]

Just to clarify if anyone missed it; I am James. I'm ok with James, Z, Zem, Zemanjaski.

Maybe Kaze was just trying to be clever and show how he pays attention after reading this post?

[zemanjaski]

@ Ham. I did a review and you're right, no use of James. I am sorry for bringing it up then. I don't think it's a big point on Kaze either. Looking forward to seeing your thread notes when you have a chance. What do you make of Tubehunter's response to getting a few votes? Would you consider voting for him if the group doesn't like his presumably lengthy next post?

[imopen2]

I get the feeling kaze is calling you James to be a dick. I don't think he knows my first name

Protour?

Why do you think Kaze would be doing it just to be a dick?

Because kaze is a dick

[imopen2]

But so am I

[Stardust]

What do you make of Tubehunter's response to getting a few votes? Would you consider voting for him if the group doesn't like his presumably lengthy next post?

How confident are you in your TubeHunter read, Z?

[hamfactorial]

@ Ham. I did a review and you're right, no use of James. I am sorry for bringing it up then. I don't think it's a big point on Kaze either. Looking forward to seeing your thread notes when you have a chance. What do you make of Tubehunter's response to getting a few votes? Would you consider voting for him if the group doesn't like his presumably lengthy next post?

I'll consider voting for him if I see reasonable evidence to suggest that he's the most scummy of the players drawing attention to themselves.

I don't care about what the group thinks on day 1, since the information is at its worst and any uninformed vote is more likely to hit a townie than a mafia.

Are you looking to build some consensus?

[hamfactorial]

I'll go back and read TH's responses to being voted. I wasn't paying much attention during that flurry of posts.

[zemanjaski]

What do you make of Tubehunter's response to getting a few votes? Would you consider voting for him if the group doesn't like his presumably lengthy next post?

How confident are you in your TubeHunter read, Z?

I'm 50-50 right now, based on his past games and responses so far. Under the smallest amount of pressure he offered up horrible responses. It started out with me just wanting to pros him to post more and just that was enough for him to start
contradicting himself and deflecting.

If he's response isn't satisfactory later, il actually make an effort to go after him. So far the ~10 minutes I've used have been very fruitful.

Thoughts?

[Kazekirimaru]

@James:

With regards to TubeHunter, his play lately is similar to his scumplay in the game I modded; and I really, really, REALLY hate how he handwaved the contradiction pointed out earlier. He is a scumread to me thus far.

I'm moving around a lot in an attempt to not fall into stupid habits. I'm trying to outline and fix some of my weaknesses as a scumhunter this game, and a big one is deathtunnelling my first scumread. Plus I feel applying pressure everywhere is more productive than my old strategy of deathtunnels, copious amounts of <3, and fuck bitches fuck bitches fuck bitches. Plus that playstyle generally makes people sad and discourages newbies from playing again, and Iso specifically told me not to be a belligerent asshole this game(I PM'd him pregame asking where the boundaries of "sportsmanship" lie.) So, yeah.

I do not support LynchAllLiars. Being a player who
gambits regularly, that's obviously a poor choice for me. ;D

As far as calling you James, it's just easier for me. zemanjaski is too long to keep repeating it, Z is kinda ambiguous, and zeman just feels awkward to me. I do, however, like the way you're thinking here.

@Stardust:

I will call you scummy. Thanks!

As far as the WIFOM thing, I suppose that's not quite the right term. Uhm. He was basically saying you're too scummy to be scum, yes? That just doesn't work to me. Because if you take the argument at its negative: "player X is too townie to be town" it's gibberish, don't you agree? That's what I meant.

What is the huge difference between "trying to say things that make you look town" and "trying to say things that look like they could have came from town"?

Your first name is Stardust? o.o

@Pie:

Can do.(as you
can probably tell by now)

@imopen:

Why would me calling James by his name be dickish? And you're right, I don't know your name.

PEDIT: And you're right, I am a dick. But this has no bearing here I don't think.

@ham:

"I don't care about what the group thinks on day 1, since the information is at its worst and any uninformed vote is more likely to hit a townie than a mafia."

What does the above quote mean, exactly?

And who do you want to see lynched today?

[InflatablePie]

WALL OF TEXT INCOMING *alarms sound*

Support for ScumPie came about around post 40ish with rezombad calling the team; I didn't post the meta thing until closer to post 60.

Call it what you want, I call it momentum.

... yes, I explained myself in the post above this one. You defended me with fake meta when people started calling me scum, then when the momentum shifted and more reasoning started going around and I came under more pressure, you turned around and called me scummy when I called you out on your lie.

now I have an actual scumread, thanks pookie!

[quote="rezombad » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:17 am":
fpge6lpm]

if you think all those four players are actually my scumreads, then you actually think I was serious when I called three scum on page... 1? and think I seriously find rcw+ham scum when neither of them have posted much? like... read the post where I said "gg game broken" and tell me you thought I was serious.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.[/quote]

that's what I do early day 1. it's my playstyle to look for pairings/links early on, state reads (whether they're real or just reaction-gauging), and scumhunt from there. as both alignments. go to mafiascum.net's forums, find my profile, search my topics and look through my games if you want. I do this as any alignment.

in this case I called out the ham+rcw link via the Chainsaw Attack on Stardust, then added imopen to the list based
off his reactions and decided to see the responses to that.

now, when I posted the reads of ham+rcw team, tube+rezzy enemies, and Z being town later on, I was being completely serious. I suppose I can outline in bright colors and large font when I'm giving serious reads if it's hard to tell the difference.


---

not liking the calling people out by Users Browsing thing. it annoys me irrationally, even though it's been used before in games I've read to some success. just voicing my annoyance here since it seems to be common practice.

---

Stardust's 101 gives me townvibes. :goodposting: even if I disagree with the tubehunter read, because the post quoted there is a rehash of what other people were posting at the time.

re: Stardust-Gambit: I don't think scum would actually say 'oh that scummy post I made that got me wagoned to L-2? that was a gambit.', they would
find some other way to backpedal or explain away their reasoning. helps cement a townread here.

Also:
Like most of your words this game, any discussion on motive results in useless WIFOM.
I'm going to rant on the WIFOM thing in a bit if I have time tonight, but first, Starbuck Stardust: can you point out more examples of me doing this? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

---

more RVS talk. can I say again that RVS can be over at different times for different people? it's naive* to think that there's one specific post every game that ends all RVS forever. I agree there is a rough estimate that you can pinpoint in each game, and you should probably pressure someone if they're like 100 pages in and throwing random votes, but this specific RVS ending time thing is just bugging me, especially in this scenario. wasn't her(?) vote on page 1 ffs?

*may not be the right word but it's close enough

---

Regardless of how you interpret my posts, Pie made WAY more "assumptions" than I did, going as far as to list scum teams on page 1, one of those people having not even posted yet and none of which I would say had done anything particularly scummy to that point.

unvote votestardust

unvote stardust claims he's at l-2, true?

Was this a test for double-voters?

... what. also, noting something here Kaze-related; read on for more.

unvote
vote: imopen2

defending ham + weird justification for Stardust vote + lack of reaction to miller claim = trying to blend in surreptitiously and hope no one calls him out

ham + rcw + imopen scumteam, gg game broken.

I'd like to draw attention to the quoted exchange between Pie and imopen from page 2. In the first quote, Pie
accuses imopen of defending me, but imopen had done no such thing. He didn't even mention me.

okay, remember when I called you and rcw scum on page 1? imopen responded to that with "votes on Stardust are legit until blah blah", which reads to me as "hey, leave ham alone, Stardust votes are allowed". connect the dots.

Is it your normal style to post no analysis and just parrot what others say Tubehunter? You're yet to make a substantive post in this thread. Actual analysis please.

thank you.

that said, I already said this so now you're parroting me and oh god parrotception

Fun fact: Up until Pie first voted, there were 8 different people with 1 vote each!

Hinting at a double-voter...? What do you guys think?

one: don't outguess the mod
two: the mod probably shouldn't post comments like this anyway but whatevs
three: what. why is everyone talking about doublevoters, this is raising red flags everywhere.
four: DON'T OUTGUESS THE MOD


Hey, Kaze mentioned Occam's Razor. I'm gonna rant about that and WIFOM at some point tonight. I might nap first.

Stardust, pie, your reactions to Tubehunter?

saw some mimicking earlier that I've pointed out numerous times, pretty much agree with Z about his reaction to his wagon
thusfar? I do need to look into him more because honestly I've been superskimming to get this post out and it's long enough as is, and all that sticks in my head is the mimicking thing. I'll dig up evidence for that if necessary.

that said, I'm fine with a wagon on him.

Also, you are currently suffering from OMGUS. Don't let that cloud your judgement.

as a note, I'm going to point out that we need to tell the difference between OMGUS and attacking players attacking you because they're actually scummy. I know I get seriously annoyed when I'm being wagoned and call out someone else with legit reasoning, where it's dismissed as OMGUS just because of where their vote is

disclaimer: I don't know what the flying fuck you're referring to here because I haven't been paying attention to the interactions between you two
(nor do I really care at this point honestly), it just reminded me since someone (imopen?) called me out for being "OMGUS-y" earlier and I want to state this again, especially if this mindset is another common thing here.


aaaand post over. sorry for the long one.

[InflatablePie]

oh, right. what's tube at? 4-5 votes I think?

vote tubehunter

[zemanjaski]

@ Ham. I did a review and you're right, no use of James. I am sorry for bringing it up then. I don't think it's a big point on Kaze either. Looking forward to seeing your thread notes when you have a chance. What do you make of Tubehunter's response to getting a few votes? Would you consider voting for him if the group doesn't like his presumably lengthy next post?

I'll consider voting for him if I see reasonable evidence to suggest that he's the most scummy of the players drawing attention to themselves.

I don't care about what the group thinks on day 1, since
the information is at its worst and any uninformed vote is more likely to hit a townie than a mafia.

Are you looking to build some consensus?

Be sure to include your order of scummynesss then. You seem to suggest that only players drawing attention to thenselves are scum; is this accurate? Can players who are passive and avoid the spotlight be scum? Would you describe Tubehunter as drawing attention or avoiding it and why?

[pedit]
Ok Kaze, thanks! Feel free to keep calling me James.

[hamfactorial]

@ Kaze

I mean that given how likely we are to mislynch on day 1 (no flips, no confirmed roles, etc.)

I don't mind taking longer to pressure people and get more information to work with before a lynch. Z's question sounded like he wanted to start building consensus for a real vote on TH for day 1.

The only scummy read I have on TH is the flippant disregard for the post asking him about the discrepancy between wanting more from me and then saying he didn't ask for more from me. Seemed pretty weird to blow it off like that, especially after Z found a 2nd post where he wanted me to post more.

[hamfactorial]

@ Z

I think that voting for a lurker would lead to limited information after they flipped. Being able to see a lot of a particular player's posts and then finding out their alignment would be more revealing, especially after reexamination of their interactions with players while alive.