Dies to Removal

I don't really like Phoenix either but there aren't enough good burn spells so beats are needed

Sarkhan is probably the best option because his -4 has been pretty handy, but it's just rough on the manabase casting clunky 5's sometimes

I like Kevin's list a lot more than Jadine's.

I like Seeker, but could Jeskai Elder be better? The lifelink helps in a lot of races, but looting in this deck seems particularly powerful. I've been attempting to build a list with a lower curve for more explosive openings. I agree with Kait that Dragonspeaker is a tad high on the curve. Running one rather than two and cutting a land may be correct.

The Kevin's list is a three colour deck, the Jadine is a two colour splashing Jeskai Charm and some cards in sideboard.

When I suggest Strombreath Dragon will be best in Abzan matchup is because for what I see it will be less hit by removal. In the lists of SCG this weekend the removal they use are about:
15th place:
4 Abzan Charm
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Utter End
After Sideboard can have:
2 Murderous Cut
1 Utter End
3 Drown in Sorrow
Only Hero's Downfall and Murderous Cut can kill the Dragon 1 for 1.

17th Place:
2 Abzan Charm
2 Bile Blight
2 Hero's Downfall
1 Murderous Cut
After Sideboard can have:
1 Abzan Charm
1 Bile Blight
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Setessan Tactics
3 Drown in Sorrow
Only Hero's Downfall, Murderous Cut can kill the Dragon 1 for 1 and eventually Setessan Tactics.

21th Place (BBD):
1 Banishing Light
2 Abzan Charm
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Murderous Cut
After Sideboard can have:
2
Suspension Field
1 Abzan Charm
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Drown in Sorrow
Only Hero's Downfall, Murderous Cut can kill the Dragon 1 for 1 and eventually Elspeth, Sun's Champion.

I see it like a creature that have protection from Abzan Charm, Utter End, Banishing Light and Suspension Field and can't be chump block by the roc or the roc token

Yeah but Sarkhan's -4 is the shiz niz

Kevin Jones wins SCG

His list played very well, I would say the Steam Augury could be cut

With 2 Phoenix in Sideboard

I try a lot Steam Augury last season and give up of that.

Not sure if I like this 2 drop prowless guy.

Probably would settle on Jeskai Skies (Mantis, Phoenix, Dragon/Sakrhan)

Currently, me and several others mututally agreed that we think 5-drops suck(besides sarkhan who's fine) because tapping out is actively bad in this archetype.

Haven't played with or against it, but I'm 100% behind seeker of the way.

Card seems insane. We all should feel bad for missing this guy.

Currently, me and several others mututally agreed that we think 5-drops suck(besides sarkhan who's fine) because tapping out is actively bad in this archetype.

Haven't played with or against it, but I'm 100% behind seeker of the way.

Card seems insane. We all should feel bad for missing this guy.

Ok I get you.

What about 4 drops such as Phoenix/Demon/Puprohoros/Sorin?

What about 1 drop haste prowless guy (was used by jeskai tokens)? He also seems quite decent with amount of spells we have. He can get past caryatid and courser (good value of playing searing blood on courser with him on board)

I've been playing Swiftspear with success. Thinking about giving Jeskai Elder and Seeker a try because it's not immediately obvious to me which is better.

I think seeker is better because a lot of the time your 1-drop will be playing a tapped land.

Since your first action is on turn 2 most of the time, might as well play a 2-drop.

For your deck, maybe. Mine has 13 untapped red.

Just from watching the Open and watching them play- they rarely had turn 1 red.

Yeah, their decks aren't as skewed toward red as mine is. It's not clear which idea is better yet.

For instance, the guy that won had to build a manabase to support Dig and Steam Augury. The latter clearly should not have been in there and I'm not convinced that Dig should have been either.

Wonder if Treasure Cruise is better since it is easier on the mana.

What about creatures/Walkers?

I think we can all agree that 4x Rabbble and 4x Mantis are obvious musts but the other spots are open. Seeker of the Way, Pheonix? Dragon? Sarkahn?

Phoenix seems pretty good to me as maybe a 3-of. 2 Sarkhan Def seems right. At least 1 Chandra since it is really nice against the little aggro decks.


One possibility -
4 Mantis
4 Rabble
4 Seeker
2 Sarkhan
2 Chandra
2 Dig through time

or Possibly run 2 Pheonix over the Chandra's or Chandra/Speeker. With all the green decks running around and an already favorable aggro matchup and lack of control decks , it could be the right choice.

I think one blue from Cruise makes it better.

Your numbers seem about right to me. I like Chandra a lot though. Works pretty well with Seeker and Rabble.

Have you guys figured out the manabase at all?

Big difference I see between top8 lists it Jadine running 4 of the tri-land with Kevin running just 1 but with full scrylands.

I think that a full set of Tri Lands would be good.

I kinda like the scrys myself...there isn't mutavault to act as a manasink and the burn is a little worse and games are going a little longer. I think having those 8 scry lands can be pretty nice later on.

Plus the blue is mostly a splash so I am not sure if you really need those lands.

In line with kait's thought of dropping the 5 drops one could run flame-wreathed phoenix. 4 mana gets you either a 5/5 flyer (harder to deal with than ashcloud though it usually means the opponent has a way to deal with it giving you potential insight into the cards they have), or a 3/3 flyer with haste and better recursion the ashcloud (would rather pay 4 again than 6 for a shock effect but thats me).

I have also been considering the phoenix in various builds (mostly because i bought it last year and i really want it to be good). But if we are considering playing Ashcloud Phoenix, isn't flame-wreathed better or as good in all cases except against Downfall and Murderous Cut?

thats a pretty big except....

It is

For instance, the guy that won had to build a manabase to support Dig and Steam Augury. The latter clearly should not have been in there and I'm not convinced that Dig should have been either.

Dig is insanely strong but it being a sorcery hampers it quite a bit in a strategy like this

Dig is instant. Cruise is sorcery. UU is the big hindrance on Dig.

You also don't really need Monastery as long as you've built the deck properly. As long as you have 19-20 red sources you can comfortably play Temple of Enlightenment instead.

It is? Oh well...

[deck]
Creatures 15
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Mantis Rider
3 Satyr Firedancer

Walkers 2
Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells 19
4 Magma Jet
2 Lightning Strike
1 Deflecting Palm
4 Searing Blood
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Stoke the Flames


Lands 24
6 Mountain
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Temple of Epiphany
2 Temple of Triumph
4 Flooded Strand
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Shivan Reef

Sideboard 15
2 Circle of Flame
2 Erase
2 Raise the Alarm
1 Keranos, God of Storms
3 Deflecting Palm
2 Negate
3 Suspension Field
[/deck]

This is what I ran at the $5k. I changed it to this the morning of the event after thinking a bit, and it dawned on me after round 2 that I really should have been running 23 lands. Chandra is kind of unnecessary, as she mostly just got cast and then padded my life total by dying.

I also want to mention that Seeker of the Way was mentioned in this
thread multiple times, it's just that no one really tested it. It was always a creature that I considered running, it just didn't feel like there was any room.

Satyr Firedancer was pretty solid in the main, and I definitely don't regret it being there. The decks main weakness seemed to just be getting overrun. They get a Rabble out, I remove it next turn, but they still have a token left over. Mardu Ascendancy was a beating, although I did still manage to beat that guy. Elspeth was a problem, since I'd kill her next turn, but then I had to deal with 3 little tokens.

edit: nvm, more posts were made that I hadn't seen when I posted. My point was already made.

[deck]
Creatures 15
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Mantis Rider
3 Satyr Firedancer

Walkers 2
Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells 19
4 Magma Jet
2 Lightning Strike
1 Deflecting Palm
4 Searing Blood
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Stoke the Flames


Lands 24
6 Mountain
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Temple of Epiphany
2 Temple of Triumph
4 Flooded Strand
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Shivan Reef

Sideboard 15
2 Circle of Flame
2 Erase
2 Raise the Alarm
1 Keranos, God of Storms
3 Deflecting Palm
2 Negate
3 Suspension Field
[/deck]

This is what I ran at the $5k. I changed it to this the morning of the event after thinking a bit, and it dawned on me after round 2 that I really should have been running 23 lands. Chandra is kind of unnecessary,
as she mostly just got cast and then padded my life total by dying.

I also want to mention that Seeker of the Way was mentioned in this thread multiple times, it's just that no one really tested it. It was always a creature that I considered running, it just didn't feel like there was any room.

Satyr Firedancer was pretty solid in the main, and I definitely don't regret it being there. The decks main weakness seemed to just be getting overrun. They get a Rabble out, I remove it next turn, but they still have a token left over. Mardu Ascendancy was a beating, although I did still manage to beat that guy. Elspeth was a problem, since I'd kill her next turn, but then I had to deal with 3 little tokens.

Satyr Firedancer + Deflecting Palm seems cute.

You can't respond to an As X Enters the Battlefield trigger, only a When

He's not talking about the "as" effect. He's referring to the "if" trigger, which can be responded to.

In line with kait's thought of dropping the 5 drops one could run flame-wreathed phoenix. 4 mana gets you either a 5/5 flyer (harder to deal with than ashcloud though it usually means the opponent has a way to deal with it giving you potential insight into the cards they have), or a 3/3 flyer with haste and better recursion the ashcloud (would rather pay 4 again than 6 for a shock effect but thats me).

You can respond to Flame-Wreath's ETB ability and kill it with a Lightning Strike or Bile Blight and it won't recur. Ashcloud will always
recur, though it is weak to Magma Spray compared to Flame-Wreath. Ashcloud dodges Suppression Field, if that's ever relevant.

Correct, which is why Flame-Wreathed is shit. The same thing goes for Fanatic of Xenagos, to a less detrimental degree.


Think I'm going to just netdeck the first place Jeskai list, and make some small tweaks. Glad I didn't trade my Narset off today. Probably sleeve up a mono-red deck as well, and I'll just switch between them depending on the meta.

Here is my take on it. Just a few tweaks from the Open list.


[DECK]
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Mantis Rider
4 Seeker of the Way

1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

2 Banishing Light
2 Dig Through Time
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Stoke the Flames
1 Arc Lightning

2 Island
3 Mountain
2 Plains
3 Battlefield Forge
3 Flooded Strand
3 Shivan Reef
4 Temple of Epiphany
4 Temple of Triumph

SB: 2 Ashcloud Phoenix
SB: 3 Disdainful Stroke
SB: 2 Magma Spray
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 1 Narset, Enlightened Master
SB: 1 Keranos, God of Storms
SB: 1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
SB: 2 Anger of the Gods
SB: 1 Temple of Enlightenment
[/DECK]


Came up with 1 Wilcard spot , which is currently Arc Lighting. Figured more 3 damage burn can't hurt. Sorcery speed does suck though.

Could be 2nd Chandra but I am not sure if I really like her in the maindeck of a deck like this.

nOr....could cut 1-2 Dig for 2 Phoenix.



Just tested and it feels just like Boros Burn did all last season....thank heaven.

Tested a tweak to your list all night jsilv, LOVE the way Jace played.

2 Sarkhan
1 Jace
1 Chandra


Also dig is broken.

Jace could def be the 1-of I am missing, good fuckin call.

It tested really well tonight, filing a similar role as chandra does on turn 4, but also acts as a pseudo time walk/dig fodder if you are ahead.

I tried Jace in similar lists and I felt the mana was too stretched. Seems like wanting white and red turn 2 into eventual RR spells leaves little room for UU. (besides Dig Through Time, but that is a much later game spell anyway) Admittedly, I'm playing Brimaz over Rabblemaster, so that might be why