[Primer] UR Delver

[Valdarith]

I like Batterskull or Keranos. Which one to play is interesting though. I like Batterskull a little more I think. Still difficult for UWR and Jund to deal with but is better against aggro.

[Mr. Metronome]

I'm pretty happy with this decks match up against aggro as is, so I think I'd favour Keranos. Better vs Pod, BG, and Uwr, since you don't need to keep dumping mana into it.

[Platypus]

This one finished in the top 4 in our PTQ (129 players):

[deck]Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Vendilion Clique

Spells
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Burst Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
1 Spell Pierce
4 Spell Snare
3 Vapor Snag

Lands
2 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
4 Island
2 Mountain
1 Shivan Reef

Sideboard
3 Blood Moon
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Combust
2 Dispel
1 Spell Pierce
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Steel Sabotage
1 Batterskull[/deck]

[Mr. Metronome]

Not a bad list, the lack of Remand is weird though. Also not a huge fan of Ancient Grudge, I don't think it's necessary given that Affinity is already a pretty good matchup.

Has anyone played at all with Forked Bolt?

[zemanjaski]

Yeah I liked it. Strong choice if you're expecting affinity or pod. Burst Lightning is better for Jund / UWR / combo.

RE: Keranos v Batterskull, Keranos for me since I have more issues with Jund and UWR than little aggro (which I feel my deck murders).

[Khaospawn]

James, thoughts on Hoogland's UR/w Delver list?

[zemanjaski]

I'm not familiar with it.

[Mr. Metronome]

Here:

---

I'm not fully sold on the splash, and there's no way I'm switching to an untuned list over the fairly tuned UR one we're on at the moment.

[zemanjaski]

Keep in mind that my sideboard needs a little bit of work.

[LP, of the Fires]

Uwr HAS to be terrible. Helix doesn't actually gain you life since you're taking more damage from lands and path is mediocre to fine, not great. The one thing you really get is collonade and that's fine, but since it's the only thing, I could see slashing for just that and less shitty sb card.

[Khaospawn]

Wear//Tear is why Hoogland really wants to splash W.

[zemanjaski]

You could play 1 Hallowed Fountain in my list with 9 fetches to find it if you want white sideboard cards.

[LP, of the Fires]

It's also worth noting that this aNother Deck I don't play, so opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.

[zemanjaski]

Yes, that's why I found your comments about the five drops so irksome.

[LP, of the Fires]

We'll, I do have games with it under my belt and hitting land drops was never an issue. Its not like I've never played a delver deck before. Im just not an expert on this list.

[zemanjaski]

Hitting land drops is absolutely an issue in a 21 land deck, regardless of the number of cantrips.

[Mr. Metronome]

Damn. So, I was set on this deck for the PTQ, but then I saw this post over on /r/Spikes: http://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments ... ort_top_4/, and asked around if any of my play group had Tarmogoyfs they aren't using. They do, so now I have a real decision to make.

The last Modern event near this one had the following for a top 8: Scapeshift, Affinity, Affinity, BG Rock, Junk, Jund, Tron, Scapeshift. The finals consisted of Affinity vs Affinity.

There was a decent amount of Twin and URx decks, one good Storm player, and 2 Pod players.

I expect the PTQ to have a -similar- field, but likely with a bit more Pod and Scapeshift.

Which deck do you like in that room?

I realize this isn't about only UR Delver, but there are 0 comments on my post about RUG in the other section of the forum.

[deck]Creatures(13)
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x
Tarmogoyfs
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Huntmaster of the Fells
1x Vendilion Clique

Artifacts(2)
2x Vendalken Shackles

Planeswalkers(1)
1xKeranos, God of Storms

Instants & Sorceries(20)
4x Serum Visions
2x Flame Slash
1x Pyroclasm
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Cryptic Command
3x Mana Leak
2x Spell Snare
1x Eletrolyze

Lands (24)
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Breeding Pool
2x Steam Vents
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Stomping Ground
1x Forest
1x Mountain
4x Island
2x Tectonic Edge
1x Raging Ravine

Sideboard
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Thread of Disloyalty
1x Batterskull
1x Dispel
1x Negate
1x Combust
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Thragtusk
1x Dismember
1x Magma Spray
1x Unravel the Aether [/deck]

[Valdarith]

The white splash is completely unnecessary in my opinion. The only reason to run it would be to play Geist and go balls to the wall with all the Remands, Leaks, and Vapor Snags.

[Mr. Metronome]

Right, and I don't think Geist is at all where you want to be in modern at the moment.

[zemanjaski]

I for one am not big on forcing discussion of a deck. If people had an actual opinion on rug they probably would have offered it. I've never played with it so I have no idea.

[LP, of the Fires]

My friend nate played it this weekend killing a side event where he outplayed Sam Pardee and was doing ok in the ptq.

Reid also has a vid series playing it on channel fireball.

[Mr. Metronome]

Valid opinion Zem. Regardless of what I play, I'll link my report somewhere on the site.

Any testing news from people? Spell Snare has been insane (obviously), and Clique out of the board has felt decent.

[zemanjaski]

This is what I ended up playing last night to 4-0.

4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer

2 Burst Lightning
1 Flame Slash
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
4 Remand
4 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
1 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare

1 Arid Mesa
5 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Mutavault
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents

2 Arc Trail
2 Blood Moon
2 Combust
1 Dispel
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Magma Spray
2 Negate
1 Spellskite
2 Threads of Disloyalty

It still needs a little work.

Other things worth noting:
- my deck has obviously ended up mostly back where everyone else's was a month ago. Thus, you were all mostly right, I was mostly wrong and I should be less full of myself.
- an hour in the library is more valuable than a day in the laboratory.
- it's is better to think of all the questions than know all the answers.

[zemanjaski]

It's possible that Desolate Lighthouse is better than Mutavault as the land count gets lower too.

[Mr. Metronome]

I've really liked Mutavault in this archetype, fwiw.

[zemanjaski]

Won one side event, top 4'd the other. Delver too powerful!

[Valdarith]

It runs the most number of my favorite modern-legal cards, therefore I play it with great joy.

[zemanjaski]

They printed sorcery speed Ancestral Recall and Fact or Fiction for us to try out.

[Valdarith]

I like the potential of Dig Through Time a little more than Treasure Cruise due to instant speed (works better with Snappy) and digging deeper for relevant spells. You'd have to move away from Lavaman and toward a more controlling build which I know you favor.

[zemanjaski]

I'd cut a Lavamancer and go up to 10 blue fetches and I think I'd be good to go. These decks fill the yard super quickly.

[zemanjaski]

Dig Through Time at 4 mana is likely better than Fact or Fiction. Any cheap? WHOAH!

[Valdarith]

For some reason my mind keeps proding me to brew a Grixis list, and I finally succumed to it after thinking about allied fetches in Modern. I don't know if it's any better than UR due to the extra life loss from fetches and shocks, but I like exercises like this to keep ourselves honest on the optimal configurations for the archetype.

[deck]
Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage

Spells (26)
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
3 Shadow of Doubt
4 Remand
4 Mana Leak
1 Dismember
2 Electrolyze

Lands (20)
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
1 Blood Crypt
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Desolate Lighthouse
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
1 Thoughtseize
1 Dispel
2 Magma Spray
1 Darkblast
1
Twisted Image
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Terminate
1 Negate
1 Dismember
1 Keranos, God of Storms
[/deck]

Shadow of Doubt may be too cute, but I love the synergy with Mana Leak and targeted discard spells. The deck runs 20 lands as a nod to leaving Gitaxian Probe and Serum Visions out of the deck, which may increase the deck's mulligan rate. What I liked so much about UR Delver was that the vast majority of one-land hands were keepable, but that isn't the case here. I like that we can run Creeping Tar Pit and Desolate Lighthouse here though.

Other cards to consider: Forbidden Alchemy, Treasure Cruise. May want the latter as a one or two-of. I would love to run Bob but the life lost from fetching, shocking, Thoughtseize, and Dismember is just too much without a way to gain life.

One of the best things about adding black? The sideboard. Darkblast against Affinity, Soul Sisters, and the mirror? Yes please. Terminate to deal with GBx decks, Twin, and other decks running fat creatures? Awesome! Rakdos Charm
too?!?!

[rcwraspy]

Murderous Cut should probably be in the 75 in some number. If it replaces Dismember you may have more ability to run Bob, though of course that's 5 off the flip if you find it with him.

[Valdarith]

I don't like removal that can't reliably interact within the first three turns of the game.

[zemanjaski]

UR Delver with Treasure Cruise is completely fucking degenerate.

[deck]UR Powerful Wizards[/deck]
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer

Non-creature Spells
2 Burst Lightning
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
4 Remand
4 Serum Visions
1 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
2 Thoughtscour
2 Treasure Cruise

Lands
1 Flooded Strand
5 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
[/deck]

Don't worry about the exact 60 cards, it'll need to be tuned to your meta. Start playing Treasure Cruise, it's completely broken.

[jsilv]

Yeah, Modern is going to be very different thanks to Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time. Slow combo (Scapeshift), UWR Control and Delver decks all got infinitely better. Hell I want to board Treasure Cruise in vs. Jund in Affinity even since that's just a grind. I can't stress how much a set of Treasure Cruise alters how Delver plays out vs. attrition plans. I also think Knuckleblade and Tarmogoyf along with the new fetches are going to make a justifiable RUG Delver. And no, running delve cards don't snap make Snapcaster or Goyf dogshit despite what bad players do.

[zemanjaski]

You think Delver can run the full 4? I'd really like to squeeze in a 3rd.

[jsilv]

I tried one with 3 MD and 1 in the board and thought it was a pretty big game.

[zemanjaski]

GAS.

[Valdarith]

I was going to suggest three and upping Thought Scour to three as well.