Dies to Removal

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:14 am**

The only toolbox creatures I like in standard in green are Reclamation Sage and Hornet Queen.

In other news, you know when Sally has gone from bad to worse when you have a member who is notorious for arguing with pro-players for being bad and claiming to be better than they are advising new players on building and improving decks. He told a black aggro player to maindeck 4 Master of Feasts against control decks and a burn player to take out YP$ for Firedancers and to keep three Elixirs in the sideboard.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:43 am**

I am hearing that a lot of better players are going for either Jund Planeswalkers or FLochs UW Contro for WMCQ. I am asking what kind of deck is good vs both of those lists? It doesnt need to have red in it (my friend asked me and I didnt have way to test this matchup yet with anything).

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:05 am**

I imagine burn just eats up Jund Walkers. Planar Cleansing UW Control is easier to deal with compared to the D-Sphere version too.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:32 am**

In other news, you know when Sally has gone from bad to worse when you have a member who is notorious for arguing with pro-players for being bad and claiming to be better than they are.

Have you read the Boros Burn thread here?

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:36 am**

I am hearing that a lot of better players are going for either Jund Planeswalkers or FLochs UW Contro for WMCQ. I am asking what kind of deck is good vs both of those lists? It doesnt need to have red in it (my friend asked me and I didnt have way to test this matchup yet with anything).

I agree with TBuzzsaw, if your metagaming against Floch's UW and Jundwalkers then Burn is a solid choice.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:28 pm**

I would play Rabble over Burn if I expected Walkers and UW. UW is a terrible matchup for burn.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:31 pm**

I am hearing that a lot of better players are going for either Jund Planeswalkers or FLochs UW Contro for WMCQ. I am asking what kind of deck is good vs both of those lists? It doesnt need to have red in it (my friend asked me and I didnt have way to test this matchup yet with anything).
I agree with TBuzzsaw, if your metagaming against Floch's UW and Jundwalkers then Burn is a solid choice.

If you want to X-2.

Don't play Burn against the Floch build, you play something that forces them to either 1.) Have Supreme Verdict on 4 or die or 2.) Plays enough attrition to
pressure their Revs.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:39 pm**

Is this based on Frank Karsten's spreadsheet or your own testing?

We had tons of results with burn against control in the past (with many different people playing the MU locally, online and in larger events), the version without silly Dspheres or FSP is even better... at least it is with Stokes and T//T since playing spells on your opp. turn and countering Rev with T//T or Skullcrack works, I'll imagine the MU will be much harder if your trying to win with a 1/3 creature.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:11 pm**

His point that playing a Rabblered build is better against that expected field is strong though. It is much better against those two decks than Burn.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:24 pm**

The meta feels very weird right now. One day I play against GW, Sligh and Jund, the next I play against 3 control decks. At this point I am almost certain that I won't be comfortable with my list for this weekend.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:26 pm**

Based on my own experiences vs UW. Ran about 15 games vs Flocks build with burn last night(about 23 total since the PT). 3 Toil is not enough, and sure you can add more 4 dmg burn spells, but you will have to cut magma jet (I happen to think Searing Blood is well positioned now). Shoota running dragon is nice tech. I went 6-9 vs UW. Then I ran 10 games with rabble red, and went 7-3. Point being if I expected to face UW more than ONE time during swiss, I'd be on rabble.

The meta is settled, it just happens to be 6-8 viable decks, meaning that depending on matchups and luck any of those is capable of winning. Some of those decks you can leverage play skill and afford to play less cards for the matchups.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:30 pm**

Is this based on Frank Karsten's spreadsheet or your own testing?

We had tons of results with burn against control in the past (with many different people playing the MU locally, online and in larger events), the version without silly Dspheres or FSP is even better... at least it is with Stokes and T//T since playing spells on your opp. turn and countering Rev with T//T or Skullcrack works, I'll imagine the MU will be much harder if your trying to win with a 1/3 creature.

I don't know/card who Frank Karsten is.

I've probably played around 500~ games on UW, Burn is a joke of a matchup. You don't care if they Skullcrack your Rev. You often beat them just out of sheer boredom/Elixir. I haven't played the non-Sphere version of the
deck, but you're almost never in danger of dying to burn unless they nutdraw the shit out of you.

I played UW at an IQ this weekend against the Rabblemaster deck, it only won when it killed me before turn 4, but it felt like it did it every game. And this was through four mainboarded Flares.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:42 pm**

Based on my experience, I think UW is about 70/30 for them with a competent pilot. It's not good for the burn player.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:48 pm**

This is where I currently am:

[deck]
Spells
4 Boros Charm
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
3 Searing Blood
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Warleader's Helix

Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Lands
3 Battlefield Forge
8 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Toil // Trouble
4 Satyr Firedancer
2 Hushwing Gryff
2 Wear // Tear
[/deck]

I was on 24 lands but kept flooding so I shaved a Mutavault for the 4th Shock. This deck feels a lot like my control decks where I have to pick which decks I want to beat and just accept the lower percentages on the other matchups.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:25 pm**

The meta feels very weird right now. One day I play against GW, Sligh and Jund, the next I play against 3 control decks. At this point I am almost certain that I won't be comfortable with my list for this weekend.

Don't judge a meta based off of just 6 pieces of data, and realize that you'll have more success if you're playing something you actually know how to play rather than an anit-meta deck.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:27 pm**

Oh I know I am locked into Burn this weekend. I have known that for weeks now. The flux has been all week, those are just to examples. I am just trying to put those last few pieces together to complete the puzzle. Agonizing over the last 2-3 cards of your 75 seems natural for a lot of these decks. I am doing it with the last 4 cards of my Legacy main deck as well, choosing between Vexing Devil and Flame Rift.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:30 pm**

Flame Rift > Vexing Devil.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:30 pm**

#truth

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:32 pm**

I am almost paralyzed with indecision on that one. I have been bitten multiple time by having Rift in hand with an Eidolon out or at low life. I also have had my Devil resolve into a StP.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:19 pm**

Anything > Vexing Devil.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:20 pm**

Ya gotta live on the wild side, man.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:20 pm**

Anything > Vexing Devil.

I really like Vexing Devil in Modern Burn.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:22 pm**

Heathen.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:23 pm**

You fear its interaction with DRS, a card banned in Modern. I will probably just bring my playsets of both and flip a coin when I fill out the decklist.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:24 pm**

Coin flip. I like your style.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:28 pm**

Just ask yourself one question : what would Pat Sullivan do?

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:28 pm**

Heathen.

I love it when you talk dirty to me.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:30 pm**

Just ask yourself one question : what would Pat Sullivan do?

Play Fetchlands and 7-8 Searing effects. My list with fetches doesn't use the Devil, either.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:32 pm**

See? The deck practically builds itself!

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:37 pm**

His feelings on Devil are as such: "If I could ensure only getting them in my starting 7, I would play as many as I could." I think that many Searing effects are overkill. I play fetchless to avoid losing one of my 18 lands to Stifle. No fetches means no Searing Blaze, so that works itself out well.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:45 pm**

So does Nathan Holiday win ugliest mtg player award for 2014 or does Efro maintain the title?

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:46 pm**

Who is Nathan holiday?

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:47 pm**

The annoying prick who just HAD to play Eggs at GP San Diego, to the boredom of the rest of the world.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:51 pm**

The hero of my people

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:53 pm**

The hero of my people

Get. Out.

No person that plays a deck that takes 20 minutes on a single turn to win even when knowing what you are doing and making your plays quickly should ever be allowed to set foot in a tournament hall.

Also known as the infamous "Kibler F6" deck.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:00 pm**

Who is Nathan holiday?

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:05 pm**

What the fuck! Don't ever post that face around here again. Jesus fucking christ, I nearly puked in my mouth looking at that thing.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:06 pm**

His soul is just as ugly as his exterior.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:06 pm**

Dies to Removal

[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT